12K Formating SSD

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UnixMover

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12K Formating SSD

PostMon Aug 15, 2022 2:51 am

I placed a USB-C disk on the UMP12K. I selected format and the camera formatted the disk. I know this sounds normal, except the disk was formatted into 5 partitions of 1959.66 in size. The 12K recorded on the SSD, but I can't access any of the data on the disk.

Formatted disk by 12k.png
Formatted disk by 12k.png (6.96 KiB) Viewed 2528 times


I placed the SSD back on the 12K where it was able to play all of the recorded videos. So the data is good just inaccessible to me.

Any thoughts?
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Sean van Berlo

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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostMon Aug 15, 2022 9:41 am

This probably sounds really basic but what did you format to (ExFat or MacOS) and does your computer read that format?
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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostMon Aug 15, 2022 12:33 pm

Sean van Berlo wrote:This probably sounds really basic but what did you format to (ExFat or MacOS) and does your computer read that format?


Your question is not basic at all, and I formatted the Extreme 4GB USB-C disk to "ExFat". I did the formatting on the UMP12K. This is the first time I used the UMP12K to format any card. Normally I format on the Windows PC; however, I was at a shoot and wanted to remove any other videos from the card and felt formatting on the camera would be the faster/better solution. Now I can't mount any of the filesystems to get at the data.

cant mount drive.png
cant mount drive.png (17.92 KiB) Viewed 2338 times


My only available options are "delete" and "help" and we all know Microsoft's help is useless.

Since I can't seem to mount the filesystems, I'm trying to find a way to just move the files to either the "C-Fast/SD or URSA Mini (SSD) Recorder". Yet I have not found a way to do this either.

As a note: I have a 7"12G Video Assistant which shows it can access the filesystems, however there is no data on the filesystem. When I attach the disk to the VA, it shows the disk is a 3TB (not 4TB) disk and about 1/4 of the disk is used.

7-12G -- External 4TB SSD.jpg
7-12G -- External 4TB SSD.jpg (529.71 KiB) Viewed 2338 times
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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostMon Aug 15, 2022 2:07 pm

By Extreem do you mean the SanDisk Extreme Pro Portable SSD V2 SDSSDE81-4T00-G25 ?

I have used the SanDisk Extreme Pro Portable SSD V2 SDSSDE81-2T00-G25 (2TB) on the URSA 12K and the Pocket 4k with no issues using both ExFat and HFS+ on Windows 10. (using the included cables.)

On the 12K I normally use duel Angelbird C-Fast cards, but have tested the above SanDisk 2TB without issues... and it records as well and at rates as the duel CFast.

I bought it a month ago when B&H had it for sale at half price... should have got another.

A possibility might be that it is a bad card and under warranty. Mine has a five year warranty.
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12K Formating SSD

PostMon Aug 15, 2022 5:06 pm

On a Mac, Disk Utility can be used to Mount a drive that the system isn’t normally mounting. I’d hope Windows had something equivalent.

The disk appears to have four ‘healthy’ partitions but that too is a fantasy as the four healthy partitions have a total space of 5TB! Plus the ‘unallocated’ fifth partition. The snapshot of the dusk in the camera shows 20% used with 80% free except there are zero clips that implies nothing has been recorded. Makes no sense. Strangely it does show the drive has a 4TB capacity correctly but the 3TB indicates your free space and that’s wrong too.

We have never seen anything so weird reported on the BMD Forum.

I’d suggest reinstalling the bmOS for the UMP12K camera and hope you can then reformat the SSD correctly in exFAT as one 4TB partition.

Another option that might be worth trying is reformatting the card as HFS+ in-camera just to see if that works in the camera.
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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostMon Aug 15, 2022 10:53 pm

rick.lang wrote:...

We have never seen anything so weird reported on the BMD Forum.

I’d suggest reinstalling the bmOS for the UMP12K camera and hope you can then reformat the SSD correctly in exFAT as one 4TB partition.
...


Well, you won't believe it, but I finally accessed the data on the card. I attached the Extreme SSD to a Cloud POD, and it showed all the video files on the disk. BTW: I connected the SSD to the secondary USB-C connection since I connected the first to the BM MultiDock 10G (which was supposed to read "any SSD"). I mounted the SMB/CIFS share from the POD and used the Windows machine to move the files onto the PC. When I looked at the SSD from "diskmgmt.msc" the PC still sees the disk as these independent filesystems; however, Blackmagic (POD) sees the filesystem and can access the video files.

Once I have the files safely off the SSD, I'll test what is what is what and where I must format the disk to make it readable by a PC. The only silver lining I can see is that I can pull the files off the POD at 415MB/s.

Now before I finish this post, I looked at the files in an FTP session. I compared the information in the FTP session with a Windows mounted file share. Look at the file sizes. This could be from allocation sizes, but why would BM change the allocation size???

Wierd SSD -- BMUMP12K -- File Sizes -- FTP.jpg
Wierd SSD -- BMUMP12K -- File Sizes -- FTP.jpg (51.11 KiB) Viewed 2221 times


-vs-

Wierd SSD -- BMUMP12K -- File Sizes -- Windows.jpg
Wierd SSD -- BMUMP12K -- File Sizes -- Windows.jpg (27.79 KiB) Viewed 2221 times


I really DETEST paying to be a beta tester. Every product I have from Blackmagic requires I run days of tests just to make shooting and processing my videos something enjoyable. For those who use the high-end products, do they suffer from the same issues? Except for the UMP12K, I purchase only the low-end products as I am not in business for film. As I mentioned (somewhere in the forums), I'm a dad who takes videos of his kids. But no matter if the products are focused on major movie productions, or people like me, they should just work!
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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostTue Aug 16, 2022 12:11 am

UnixMover wrote: I connected the SSD to the secondary USB-C connection since I connected the first to the BM MultiDock 10G (which was supposed to read "any SSD").


Well. . .what happens when you connect the SSD directly to a usb-c port on the motherboard? I personally haven't had any issues with the URSA 12K formatting media in camera. I always do it in camera to keep the reel numbers going in sequence.
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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostTue Aug 16, 2022 12:58 am

Ryan Earl wrote:
UnixMover wrote: I connected the SSD to the secondary USB-C connection since I connected the first to the BM MultiDock 10G (which was supposed to read "any SSD").


Well. . .what happens when you connect the SSD directly to a usb-c port on the motherboard? ...

Not sure what you mean "directly into the motherboard". With a Windows box you connect to the thunderport/USB-C port and use a "file explorer" to access the files. If you can't get a disk to show in the explorer, you use "diskmgmt.msc" to get a low level view of the devices attached to the computer.

My initial post shows what happens when I run the diskmgmt program since the SSD did not show up in the explorer.

When I placed the SSD back on the 12K, the 12K could see and play the files without an issue. When I connected it to the VA, it could see the disk was attached, but everything was weird, and the files could not be found. The when I placed in on the POD, it saw the filesystem, saw the files and allowed me to pull them off. The only weird thing was the size of the files when I looked at them from an FTP connection.

I hope this explains how I got to where this thread is now, and more importantly answers your question.
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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostTue Aug 16, 2022 1:41 am

Ok, spent more time trying to understand **this** problem.

I took the SSD, attached it to the Windows box and removed the multiple filesystems, then created a single disk and formatted it. I then placed the SSD into the 12K and it showed:

External 4TB SSD -- Formatted in PC.jpg
External 4TB SSD -- Formatted in PC.jpg (568.24 KiB) Viewed 2177 times


I then reformatted it in the 12K again, which showed:

External 4TB SSD -- Formatted in 12K.jpg
External 4TB SSD -- Formatted in 12K.jpg (465.36 KiB) Viewed 2177 times


When I took the SSD back to the Windows box, it was the same layout as the initial picture in the thread.

It's the 12K's problem. Which is my problem, especially if I have to reformat a disk while in the field.
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12K Formating SSD

PostTue Aug 16, 2022 3:44 am

Fantastic solution you found to salvage the data!!!

I don’t think you have a problem any more with the SSD in the camera. Formatting in Windows versus formatting in the UMP12K is just creating a larger directory structure. It’s possible Windows is formatting with a small allocation block perhaps 4KB but we know BMD uses 128KB allocation blocks in all their cameras.

That might also account for the file size differences in the previous posts, but there’s one other possibility. The one set of sizes all show the size in bytes so that’s very clear; the other set shows the file sizes in KB. Now that’s ambiguous unless you know the number of bytes in a K: traditionally K always meant 1024 bytes, but years ago beginning with disk manufacturers they decided their disk would look larger if they used K to be 1000 bytes. Apple (the idiots) began reporting sizes in K = 1000 bytes for some apps and K = 1024 for others. Same issue with megabytes: 1,000,000 or 1,048,576? Gigabytes: 1,000,000,000 or 1,073,741,824?

If you look at available space on a disk, allocation size can be a big difference when you have many small files such as a frame in a video clip. The larger allocation blocks might ‘waste’ more space than a much smaller allocation block, but larger allocation blocks use less computational overhead than many more smaller blocks.

One can go crazy in this apples and oranges world so best just to accept what it wants to tell you and concentrate on the things that really matter i.e. your count of clips and remaining recording time estimates!
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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostTue Aug 16, 2022 4:16 am

UnixMover wrote: When I connected it to the VA, it could see the disk was attached, but everything was weird, and the files could not be found.
This is expected behavior. The Video Assist isn't a playback device for BRAW files recorded in the 12K UMP.
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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostTue Aug 16, 2022 5:10 am

Totally crazy, never heard about such a problem and never experienced with it. I do all formatting operations in the 12k and not in the computer. ExFat is my favorite format. I am using Sandisk Extreme 4TB, Samsung T7 2TB, Micron 7,68 TB and Samsung 7.68 TB.

I am very excited about Blackmagic's solution?
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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostTue Aug 16, 2022 1:10 pm

UnixMover wrote:Not sure what you mean "directly into the motherboard". With a Windows box you connect to the thunderport/USB-C port and use a "file explorer" to access the files. If you can't get a disk to show in the explorer, you use "diskmgmt.msc" to get a low level view of the devices attached to the computer.


If I had the issue I would first attach the drive to the rear IO panel on the PC using a USB cable. Then I would run "diskpart" from the command line as 'administrator' and "clean" the disk.

https://www.buffalotech.com/knowledge-b ... g-diskpart

Then initialize the disk and create a new partition.

Then attach it to the 12K and format it again and record a clip. Then directly attach it again to the rear IO panel on the PC and open Resolve.

That would be my plan because I've had issues come up with the multi docks rather than the URSA mini cameras. I would try to isolate the issue and bypass the multi dock first.
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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostTue Aug 16, 2022 1:20 pm

nicowieditz wrote:Totally crazy, never heard about such a problem and never experienced with it. I do all formatting operations in the 12k and not in the computer. ExFat is my favorite format. I am using Sandisk Extreme 4TB, Samsung T7 2TB, Micron 7,68 TB and Samsung 7.68 TB.

I am very excited about Blackmagic's solution?


Quick question: When did you purchase your 12K? Was it before the $6K (USD) drop? After the drop, I purchased mine. I would be really interested in the devices delivered before the price reduction and those after. I have to assume the firmware we all use is the same, so is there something in the hardware which has changed?

So you don't have to lookup the date on the price reduction: August 20, 2021 is when BM announced the price reduction.


While the drop in the sensor prices (as BM has stated) can account for some of the price reduction, I'd be interested in the rest of the story. Did BM change the internal hardware and decrease its capabilities in areas which do not affect the quality of the video, yet affect little things like formatting an SSD? I use the same model SanDisk you mention, yet you have no issue and I routinely have an issue.

I look forward to your response.
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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostTue Aug 16, 2022 1:30 pm

Ryan Earl wrote:...
That would be my plan because I've had issues come up with the multi docks rather than the URSA mini cameras. I would try to isolate the issue and bypass the multi dock first.


Sorry for the confusion. The MultiDock 10G is not part of this problem. The MultiDock has an issue reading U.2 NVMe SSDs.

I attach my MultiDock 10G to USB-C port 1 of the Cloud POD. I never attach the SanDisk Extreme 4TB disk to the MultiDock. The SanDisk connects to the Windows platforms USB-A connector normally, and to a different Thunderbolt device occasionally.
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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostTue Aug 16, 2022 1:37 pm

Jamie LeJeune wrote:This is expected behavior. The Video Assist isn't a playback device for BRAW files recorded in the 12K UMP.


I only used the VA to verify the disk was not bad, and it was formatted in exFAT. Thanks for the information on an alternative way to clear out a bizarre format produced by the 12K. Your way is faster.
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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostTue Aug 16, 2022 6:14 pm

Thomas, per your posts:
1) The drive can be formatted in the 12K UMP.
2) The drive can record without issue in the 12K UMP.
3) The 12K UMP can play back the files from the drive.
4) The files won't play back from the SSD on your Windows machine when directly connected via USB-C
5) The files will play back when the SSD is connected through BMD's cloud pod which connects to your Windows machine via ethernet.

Do I have all that correct?

If so, it seems to me the most likely explanation is some issue with the Windows machine or the USB-C port on the Windows machine, not the 12K UMP. Is there other evidence that indicates the problem is with the 12K UMP?

I ask because I've certainly encountered OS and/or port related drive issues in the past, that have had nothing to do with the camera. There's plenty that can go wrong with computer ports and operating system related drive issues.
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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostTue Aug 16, 2022 10:17 pm

Jamie LeJeune wrote:If so, it seems to me the most likely explanation is some issue with the Windows machine or the USB-C port on the Windows machine, not the 12K UMP. Is there other evidence that indicates the problem is with the 12K UMP?

I ask because I've certainly encountered OS and/or port related drive issues in the past, that have had nothing to do with the camera. There's plenty that can go wrong with computer ports and operating system related drive issues.


It's not just Windows 10 which has a problem with the 12K formatted SSD. It is also Windows Server 2019, RHEL 9, Raspbian, Multiple NAS devices, and Windows 7 (each running on physical hardware, not VMs/Dockers). These operating systems show the same bizarre filesystem layout. Have you added up all the partitions on the disk? I believe BM has made a 4TB SSD even bigger. Now that is tech they should sell!!

BM -- Filesystem.png
BM -- Filesystem.png (6.96 KiB) Viewed 1915 times


My problem is I can't run Resolve/Fusion on the 12K/POD/VA/ATEM/HyperDeck HD/Speed Editor/... So establishing the 12K can read/writing the "funky" filesystem means little to me. Eventually, you must move the data to a device which can work with that data. In my case, it's a Windows 10 PC.

So it's great Blackmagic has created a filesystem which is only readable by Blackmagic devices. Now they need an OS which will create a platform capable of running Resolve and Fusion and then they have an Apple like ecosystem.

My hope is this all goes away when I re-flash the 12K. Until then, it just appears to be "different". If not, I'll just be special.
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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostTue Aug 16, 2022 10:48 pm

UnixMover wrote:
nicowieditz wrote:Totally crazy, never heard about such a problem and never experienced with it. I do all formatting operations in the 12k and not in the computer. ExFat is my favorite format. I am using Sandisk Extreme 4TB, Samsung T7 2TB, Micron 7,68 TB and Samsung 7.68 TB.

I am very excited about Blackmagic's solution?


Quick question: When did you purchase your 12K? Was it before the $6K (USD) drop? After the drop, I purchased mine. I would be really interested in the devices delivered before the price reduction and those after. I have to assume the firmware we all use is the same, so is there something in the hardware which has changed?

So you don't have to lookup the date on the price reduction: August 20, 2021 is when BM announced the price reduction.


While the drop in the sensor prices (as BM has stated) can account for some of the price reduction, I'd be interested in the rest of the story. Did BM change the internal hardware and decrease its capabilities in areas which do not affect the quality of the video, yet affect little things like formatting an SSD? I use the same model SanDisk you mention, yet you have no issue and I routinely have an issue.

I look forward to your response.



I bought my 12k after price drop. Partitions are not a thing the 12k does, this is a windows thing. You have to reset the SSD. After that do the formatting operation on the 12k in ExFat.
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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostWed Aug 17, 2022 6:20 am

I don't usually reply in topics to say, "mine don't do that" but in this case you asked. My U12K was purchased after the price drop and I use the SanDisk Extreme PRO 2TB SSD USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 Type C External Solid State Drive, connected to a USB-C port on my Windows 10 PC. I haven't had any problems with it.
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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostWed Aug 17, 2022 12:39 pm

nicowieditz wrote:...
I bought my 12k after price drop. Partitions are not a thing the 12k does, this is a windows thing. You have to reset the SSD. After that do the formatting operation on the 12k in ExFat.


I have formatted the disk in Windows. Single 4TB filesystem. Then recorded to it from the 12K. Placed it back into the Windows PC, offloaded the files and produced my output.

I then took the SSD back to the 12K. Formatted the disk in the 12K. Recorded to the disk in the 12K. Took the disk to the Windows box...and I get the bizarre disk layout again. Place the SSD onto the BM Cloud POD (port "B"), then I can ftp, and SMB/CIFS the data files to my heart's content...

To Tom Roper:
And since you mention you do the same to the SanDisk 2TB SSD, I repeated the steps
above on the on my 2TB: Same issues. Thank you for responding.

It's not the PC, it's not the SSDs, it's the 12K.

Because you have not had the issues with the 12K as I have, it must not be a "parts substitution" issue. The only thing left is the firmware. I am updating the firmware before my shoot today. I'll let the forum know the outcome.

P.S. While writing this I thought about another BM device which can format disks: The 7" Video Assistant. So I placed the Extreme 4TB on the VA, went to the drive selection. Selected the SSD. Formatted the SSD. Then took the SSD, placed it on the Windows box...and it contained a perfect file system. No Issues.

I then placed it into the 12K, filmed the water out back. Returned the SSD to the Windows box, no issues. And just for completeness, I then went back to the 12K. Formatted the disk. Took that disk back to the Windows box--And there was that funky filesystem.

This procedure proves it is not the Windows PC. If the Blackmagic Video Assistant can format the disk(s) and the PC can read it, the 12K should also do the same. Oh, as another control, I use the same cable for all three devices. So its not the cable. I also do not remove the SSD from the cable end, so it is not the cable "directionality" issue. Just for completeness, I also went back and repeated the above, only this time being aware of which way the cable went into the device (tried it on both orientations). Same results.
Last edited by UnixMover on Wed Aug 17, 2022 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostWed Aug 17, 2022 12:49 pm

Tom Roper wrote:I don't usually reply in topics to say, "mine don't do that" but in this case you asked. My U12K was purchased after the price drop and I use the SanDisk Extreme PRO 2TB SSD USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 Type C External Solid State Drive, connected to a USB-C port on my Windows 10 PC. I haven't had any problems with it.


I appreciate the response. Thanks for taking the time.
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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostWed Aug 17, 2022 4:26 pm

UnixMover wrote:I appreciate the response. Thanks for taking the time.


Thanks. It's just counter productive when someone legitimately looks for solutions and has to put up with posters rushing in to defend their own products.
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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostWed Aug 17, 2022 5:04 pm

nicowieditz wrote:You have to reset the SSD. After that do the formatting operation on the 12k in ExFat.


This is why I recommended 'diskpart' run from the command-line vs 'Disk Management' in the Windows control panel. After cleaning it with diskpart you have to reinitialize the disk before it is usable again. diskpart has saved a lot of my disks that had become corrupted, usuallly flash drives that I am constantly reformatting to install a new OS. Formatting disks on Windows from the file explorer by itself can result in corrupted disks and irremovable extra partitions.

UnixMover wrote:I am updating the firmware before my shoot today. I'll let the forum know the outcome.


It would be helpful to know if the 12K is doing it to more disks than the Sandisk if it's still an issue after the firmware update / refresh.
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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostWed Aug 17, 2022 5:10 pm

Tom Roper wrote:
UnixMover wrote:I appreciate the response. Thanks for taking the time.


Thanks. It's just counter productive when someone legitimately looks for solutions and has to put up with posters rushing in to defend their own products.


:D
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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostWed Aug 17, 2022 5:28 pm

I formatted in-camera, shot a few seconds at 12K60, took it back to Windows 10 pc, shows 1 healthy partition.
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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostWed Aug 17, 2022 6:21 pm

Tom Roper wrote:I formatted in-camera, shot a few seconds at 12K60, took it back to Windows 10 pc, shows 1 healthy partition.


Lucky man ;)
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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostThu Aug 18, 2022 12:32 am

Jamie LeJeune wrote:Thomas, per your posts:
1) The drive can be formatted in the 12K UMP.
2) The drive can record without issue in the 12K UMP.
3) The 12K UMP can play back the files from the drive.
4) The files won't play back from the SSD on your Windows machine when directly connected via USB-C
5) The files will play back when the SSD is connected through BMD's cloud pod which connects to your Windows machine via ethernet.

Do I have all that correct?
...


How do I force an update?

Upgrade firmware on 12k.png
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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostThu Aug 18, 2022 12:54 am

Ryan Earl wrote:
nicowieditz wrote:You have to reset the SSD. After that do the formatting operation on the 12k in ExFat.


This is why I recommended 'diskpart' run from the command-line vs 'Disk Management' in the Windows control panel. After cleaning it with diskpart you have to reinitialize the disk before it is usable again. diskpart has saved a lot of my disks that had become corrupted, usuallly flash drives that I am constantly reformatting to install a new OS. Formatting disks on Windows from the file explorer by itself can result in corrupted disks and irremovable extra partitions.

UnixMover wrote:I am updating the firmware before my shoot today. I'll let the forum know the outcome.


It would be helpful to know if the 12K is doing it to more disks than the Sandisk if it's still an issue after the firmware update / refresh.

Ok, I hate to leave someone hanging, so I have used diskpart to "clean" the SSD. Then Initialized the SSD. Then formatted the SSD. Now I have a 4TB SSD. (I'll spare the video/pictures for brevity’s sake)

Then I place the SSD into the 12k USB-C connector, select the SSD and format the SSD. I then move the SSD back to the Windows box and I end up with the same "bizarre" filesystem as shown in the start of this thread.

I then diskpart the SSD again, initialize the SSD, and format the SSD. Place the SSD into the 12K, shoot some video and then move the SSD back to the Windows box where the SSD mounts and works normally.

It's not the Windows box. It's the 12K. I have asked how to force an upgrade on the 12K firmware as I am currently running the latest.
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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostThu Aug 18, 2022 1:26 am

I would maybe go back to the 7.7 firmware release from Dec ‘21. And check the formatting behavior on that release.
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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostThu Aug 18, 2022 5:34 am

What Ryan said +1. I am on 7.7 firmware version.

To force an update, (which I've never done, ymmv), I believe this is done by uninstalling Blackmagic Camera from Windows, then reinstalling to Windows the version you want. After that, just hooking up the USB cable and running the BMD Camera setup utility from the Windows start menu.
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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostThu Aug 18, 2022 2:31 pm

Well, like any other good beta tester, I have ordered a few new SSDs to test this issue with. I ordered SanDisk Extreme 1TB, 2TB, & 4TB SSDs. They should be in tomorrow and I should be able to tell if the 4TB SSD I am using is defective or not. I hate to spend my money on beta testing someone else's hardware, but I can use these SSDs after the fact so...

I will not do the "goat rope" firmware changes until I can verify the SSD is not the issue. That is unless BM comes out with another firmware before my drives come in. The latest firmware I show is July 28, 2022, version 7.9.1 (just checked).
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12K Formating SSD

PostThu Aug 18, 2022 3:05 pm

You’re performing a commendable effort to get to the bottom of this weird formatting issue.

Firmware 7.7.2
addresses (unspecified) manufacturing changes

Firmware 7.7
addresses USB-C connection issues

Hope I have that correctly stated.

The latest firmware general release is supposed to include the latest version for all cameras so 7.9.1 should be fine for the UMP12K even though the updates only affect the Pocket cameras, but also it may be safer to go to 7.7 and, if that is working, then 7.7.2.

Edit
correction to firmware descriptions
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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostWed Aug 24, 2022 5:14 am

UnixMover wrote:Well, like any other good beta tester, I have ordered a few new SSDs to test this issue with. I ordered SanDisk Extreme 1TB, 2TB, & 4TB SSDs. They should be in tomorrow and I should be able to tell if the 4TB SSD I am using is defective or not. I hate to spend my money on beta testing someone else's hardware, but I can use these SSDs after the fact so...

I will not do the "goat rope" firmware changes until I can verify the SSD is not the issue. That is unless BM comes out with another firmware before my drives come in. The latest firmware I show is July 28, 2022, version 7.9.1 (just checked).


AFAIK, 7.9.1 is for pocket series cams. Also you said you ordered SanDisk Extreme but you left out of the nomenclature what comes after "Extreme." Hopefully you knew that to be "Pro" and not "Portable." They both look nearly identical on the outside, the only clue besides the price is shape of the key ring hole.
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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostWed Aug 24, 2022 3:34 pm

Tom Roper wrote:...

AFAIK, 7.9.1 is for pocket series cams. Also you said you ordered SanDisk Extreme but you left out of the nomenclature what comes after "Extreme." Hopefully you knew that to be "Pro" and not "Portable." They both look nearly identical on the outside, the only clue besides the price is shape of the key ring hole.


I've got about 10 of these things now and "portable" is never the way to go. I am changing to NVMe SSD drives, so this purchase was more to figure out the problem at hand. I have one NVMe SSD for the URSA Mini Recorder now. The NVMe drives are sick fast and once you have an external reader (not the MultiDock 10G as it can't read them) life is good. An additional benefit is you can get 7TB sizes to record all day and night :)

The bad news is Amazon just sent me the dreaded "you arrival date has slipped" notice. I should not have purchased the Blackmagic 12G to HDMI, bidirectional, conversion device. I'm sure that is the culprit to delaying the arrival.

I can say that I have tried my existing 2/4TB SSDs (all SanDisk) and the 4TB SSDs are the only ones which receive the weird formatting. The 2TB drives format with no issue on the 12k. However, since there seems to be a distrust of the existing SSDs I have now, I will wait till the new ones come in and then provide a report. Another benefit of the delivery is I can add the 1TB SSD to the testing.

But, thanks for the heads up.
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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostWed Aug 24, 2022 7:55 pm

Which exact models of drives have you been having an issue with?
Are they U.2 drives in the mini recorder, or are they external drives direct connected to the 12K via USB-C?

If direct connected, these are the only officially supported Sandisk drives:
Sandisk Extreme Pro Portable SSD V2 SDSSDE81-1T00-G25 1TB
Sandisk Extreme Pro Portable SSD V2 SDSSDE81-1T00-G25 2TB
Sandisk Extreme Pro Portable SSD V2 SDSSDE81-1T00-G25 4TB
Extreme Pro Portable SSD SDSSDE80-2T00 2TB


If using the mini recorder, these are the only officially supported Sandisk drives:
Sandisk Extreme Pro M.2 NVMe 3D SSD 500GB
Sandisk Ultra 3D SSD 1TB
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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostFri Aug 26, 2022 12:33 am

Jamie LeJeune wrote:Which exact models of drives have you been having an issue with?
Are they U.2 drives in the mini recorder, or are they external drives direct connected to the 12K via USB-C?

If direct connected, these are the only officially supported Sandisk drives:
Sandisk Extreme Pro Portable SSD V2 SDSSDE81-1T00-G25 1TB
Sandisk Extreme Pro Portable SSD V2 SDSSDE81-1T00-G25 2TB
Sandisk Extreme Pro Portable SSD V2 SDSSDE81-1T00-G25 4TB
Extreme Pro Portable SSD SDSSDE80-2T00 2TB


If using the mini recorder, these are the only officially supported Sandisk drives:
Sandisk Extreme Pro M.2 NVMe 3D SSD 500GB
Sandisk Ultra 3D SSD 1TB


Well then, none of my plugin drives are supported. I have 3 x SDSSDE61-4T00's and 4 x SDSSDE61-2T00.

Regarding the internal recording in the USP SSD Mini Recorder, I've never owned an U.2 drive, so I took that model # straight from the UMP12K's manual: MZ-QLB1T90. I do not know if this works on the PC, as I do not have a chassis to read it there. I foolishly assumed Blackmagic would support (as they say) "almost any SSD" in the 10G appliance; which does not support U.2 drives.

My NVMe naivety is changing as I am purchasing an OWC NVMe chassis, which holds a shuttle containing up four M.2 NVMe drives. Each individual M.2 drive fits into a U.2 chassis to allow them to go into the UMP Mini Recorder. Once I complete filming, I plan to place the M.2 drives into the shuttle and read them on the PC. I have received none of the OWC components yet; but, B&H Photo does a much better job of shipping than Amazon. My intention is to switch from the USB-C plugins to the U.2 drives and only use the plugin method as a "last resort". I like when everything is enclosed and there is nothing hanging out there to catch and get disconnected. I have enough kit hanging off the 12K now, and this will be the first step in reducing the clutter.

For those playing along, I ordered multiple SanDisk SSDs and a Blackmagic 12G to HDMI converter last week to figure out the formatting problem (the converted was to change 12G into HDMI to send to remote monitor). Only now Amazon deemed my order "lost" and refunded my money. Now I am forced to order again. Only this time I'll begin using B&H for all my video/photo needs, as everything they have ever shipped me has not only made it, it was in perfect shape. I purchased my 12K, DZOFilm lenses and most of the Blackmagic kit I use daily from them and the transactions are flawless. Unlike Amazon, which sends out "open boxed" and "used" kit as "new" regularly.

So rather than chasing the bizarre formatting issue, I'm going to re-flash the 12K with the older firmware and see if that fixes the problem If it does not, then I'll live with the workaround until my OWC components come in and then I'll use the U.2 recorder and abandon the plugin SSD filming altogether. It will no long matter the SSDs don't work, it will only elongate my post work-flow by a couple of steps. And I'll know upfront, BM does not support this method so I won't complain when something goes wrong.
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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostFri Aug 26, 2022 1:41 am

UnixMover wrote: I took that model # straight from the UMP12K's manual: MZ-QLB1T90
That model # doesn't appear anywhere in the Ursa Mini Pro manual.

https://documents.blackmagicdesign.com/UserManuals/BlackmagicURSAMiniManual.pdf?_v=1646985601000
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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostFri Aug 26, 2022 2:32 am

Jamie LeJeune wrote:
UnixMover wrote: I took that model # straight from the UMP12K's manual: MZ-QLB1T90
That model # doesn't appear anywhere in the Ursa Mini Pro manual.

https://documents.blackmagicdesign.com/UserManuals/BlackmagicURSAMiniManual.pdf?_v=1646985601000


You are correct, Server Supply stated the MZ-QLB1T90 is an equivalent device. Although I am not having an issue with the NVMe SSD (other than I do not have a system which reads U.2 NVMe's). As I mentioned, I am rectifying that issue and then I'll be happily out of the plugin SSDs. My issue seems to be I have the wrong model SanDisk SSDs and the 12K just treats them differently. And to be complete, the MultiDock 10G still can't read a U.2 NVMe drives even though it falls into the SSD category.

So summarizing this thread: if you do not purchase a specific model number SanDisk SSD, it appears the UMP12K will format them with a bizarre layout which is only readable by Blackmagic devices (Cloud POD and UMP12K).


Luckily I have a workaround which allows me to use my non-recommended SSDs with the UMP12K. So until my NVMe's come in, I can still make the workflow successful. Even if it is not recommended by Blackmagic.

Thanks Jamie for the help.
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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostFri Aug 26, 2022 4:12 am

UnixMover wrote:Server Supply stated the MZ-QLB1T90 is an equivalent device.
With respect to Server Supply, I highly doubt they have done the real world testing to be certain that is true for this use case. I would recommend sticking to media from BMD's officially supported list.
Besides the fact that media from the official list should simply work, a good reason to stick to media from that list is that if you do happen to run into a problem, BMD support should have that media accessible to try to replicate the issue.
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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostFri Aug 26, 2022 3:08 pm

BMD recommends media that they have tested at compression and frame rates specified. There are no "officially supported" or sanctioned devices. Some devices can also operate outside of the compression and frame rates recommended by BMD. In the case of products like Sandisk, specifications are subject to change without notice and your ability to find the exact product code that was tested by BMD is not something you can always assume. That's why BMD make recommendations and not guarantees about compatibility.

On another matter, U.2 SSDs and the Ursa Mini recorder are still bottlenecked by the same USB 3.1 port as the external drives. You don't get the highest R/W speeds that even the USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 Type C external drives are capable of (2000 MBps).

When I considered this, the convenience of being able to edit directly on the same disk that I shot on, outweighed the inconvenience of needing a U.2 compatible reader.
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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostFri Aug 26, 2022 3:22 pm

I’d still suggest using BMD sanctioned media.

I haven’t been following but are any of these drives the recommended drives?

As this long ago thread illustrates, even within the same
Model number there can be changed to media that make them incompatible.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=83050

You only have to look at the many discussions of people on this forum having success and sometimes no success with the T7. The specs say that they should work but they don’t.

This is why more controlled media like CFAST is better if you want consistent and reliable.

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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostFri Aug 26, 2022 8:44 pm

Tom Roper wrote:On another matter, U.2 SSDs and the Ursa Mini recorder are still bottlenecked by the same USB 3.1 port as the external drives. You don't get the highest R/W speeds that even the USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 Type C external drives are capable of (2000 MBps).

When I considered this, the convenience of being able to edit directly on the same disk that I shot on, outweighed the inconvenience of needing a U.2 compatible reader.



I absolutely agree with you there. The merits of why I use a U2.SSD is the storage space of 7.68TB or 15.36TB with a write speed on the camera of 982MB/s. The T7 manages 870 MB/s on the Ursa Mini Pro. Here, on the Ursa Mini 12k, coupling both Cfast cards would actually be a good alternative without needing external devices when shooting. The write speed is between the T7 and the U2. SSD.

I could not determine the exact write speed, but I was able to record slightly higher framerates with the Angelbird cards than with the T7, with the U2.SSD it just goes even better than with the Angelbird Cfast cards.

With the U2.SSD I am able to record complete projects on one drive without having to empty or change the data medium every time. I'm glad I made this decision, it's very convenient.

I then transfer the data from the SSD recorder directly to the computer via USB-C or Thunderbolt cable. All very simple and convenient.
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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostSat Aug 27, 2022 12:43 pm

nicowieditz wrote:
Tom Roper wrote:...
With the U2.SSD I am able to record complete projects on one drive without having to empty or change the data medium every time. I'm glad I made this decision, it's very convenient.

I then transfer the data from the SSD recorder directly to the computer via USB-C or Thunderbolt cable. All very simple and convenient.


I don't like stuff hanging off a USB-C port, one move and you get a new port. The mini recorder is connected to the UMP by a cable with screws which lessons (not eliminates) the chance of damage. Additionally, I have a couple of BlackJet media readers which the manufacture just informed me yesterday will read the NVMe disks. So I can shoot and edit from the same disks. Of course I don't edit from the BlackJet system, I move the media to the Cloud POD and edit from there since my render machine can access the same data over the 10GE link. I should see what happens if I connect the BlackJet to the POD...

But as Tom mentions, you can shoot with much larger media on the mini recorder. BlackJet sent me links to a couple of U.2 disks which exceed 12TB. With a 12TB drive, I can shoot all day if I want. I wish I knew about these disks a week ago. I would have ordered a couple as I have a week of shooting the construction of a riding arena. Construction starts at 0800 on Monday, and the plan is to complete the construction by 1700 the following Wednesday. I'm going to try the time-lapse mode of the 12K so I don't end up with TB's of data to sift through. If anyone has experience with time-lapse, I'd love a [PD]M on your recommendation.
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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostSat Aug 27, 2022 11:13 pm

rick.lang wrote:....

We have never seen anything so weird reported on the BMD Forum.

I’d suggest reinstalling the bmOS for the UMP12K camera and hope you can then reformat the SSD correctly in exFAT as one 4TB partition.

Another option that might be worth trying is reformatting the card as HFS+ in-camera just to see if that works in the camera.


Well tried to install older firmware from version 7.7 through latest. I first delete the software from the computer and rebooted. I then installed every one of these and attempted to update the camera. Each time the camera came back and state the 7.7.2 was the latest.

Firmware Version -- BMOS.png
Firmware Version -- BMOS.png (38.02 KiB) Viewed 600 times


Firmware Version -- BMOS -- Already Latest.png
Firmware Version -- BMOS -- Already Latest.png (166.06 KiB) Viewed 600 times


How do you downgrade the 12K? Or even force an update to an older version?
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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostSun Aug 28, 2022 4:41 am

I would advise switching to BMD recommended media rather than testing older firmware, since it is the random media that is most likely the problem variable.
Also note that the SSD Recorder has firmware that sometimes needs updating to keep up with camera firmware updates.
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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostSun Aug 28, 2022 1:40 pm

Uninstall, not delete the software.

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