Lumix gh6 and Video Assist 12g

I'm thinking of buying a Lumix gh6 but I want BMRaw. I need something lighter and smaller than the Pocket Cinema 4k, 6k or 6k g2. So the obvious solution is to buy the gh6 and the Video Assist 12g.

I notice tantilizingly that the gh5s is supported by the 12g via a recent update. But, from previous experience with my pocket cinema 2k, I have learned to heed the approved media, etc. Blackmagic Design is really good about saying what they do and do NOT support.

That said, has anyone tried recording with the Video Assist 12h and the gh6? The gh6, due to a very recent firmware update, IS now supporting external recording in APR Raw with the Ninja V+. But IMHO APR Raw and BMRaw do not compare, especially as I am committed to editing in Resolve Studio.

I'm hoping this is only a matter of time, but sometimes there are insurmountable barriers.

Anyone out there actually tried this combination: gh6 and Video Assist 12g to record in BMRaw?

I'm thinking of buying a Lumix gh6 but I want BMRaw. I need something lighter and smaller than the Pocket Cinema 4k, 6k or 6k g2. So the obvious solution is to buy the gh6 and the Video Assist 12g.

Obvious? I'm not sure.

GH6 weighs 1.8 pounds. Physical dimensions are 5.4 x 3.9 x 3.9 inches

BMPCC 4K weighs 1.6 pounds. Physical dimensions are 7 x 3.4 x 3.8 inches

So the BMPCC is actually lighter than the GH6 and smaller in every dimension except width. And you can record BRAW in it without an external monitor. With the gyro stabilization features in the latest firmware, I'd say the Pocket 4K would be the no-brainer choice between the two unless you need continuous autofocus.

Thanks for those numbers, but when I hold them both in my hands, the gh6 just has better ergonomics, especially for the 6k g2. I love the simplicity and power of the Pocket Cinema series and the interface is way better than the Panasonic, but they just don't feel right in the hands. I own a 2k pocket cinema camera. Great camera, except that it eats batteries like crazy. The 4k almost works for me, but I feel like it's soon to be legacy, not to mention you can't add an electronic viewfinder to it. It was really the lack of an EVF option that was the dealbreaker for me. I struggle with the Zacutto view finder adapter. Solves one problem but creates another: you can't access the touch screen when it's in pace.

Where there’s a will, there’s a way: I can still use the camera’s touch screen.
BMPCC4K and BMVA12G7 on a Sony VCT-14 plate. Balanced and supportive.

Thanks for that reply.

Impressive effort but still no EVF. I do most of my shooting outside. I'm not sure that would work for me. Have you taken the 12g outside? to use as a viewfinder?

Am I hoping for the impossible with the gh6 (10bit internal on most codecs) matching up with the 12bit BMD Raw? Or is it possible the output of the hdmi port is adequate to support 12bit BMD Raw recording on the Video Assist 12g?

Keith

Impressive effort but still no EVF.

Great camera, except that it eats batteries like crazy. The 4k almost works for me, but I feel like it's soon to be legacy, not to mention you can't add an electronic viewfinder to it. It was really the lack of an EVF option that was the dealbreaker for me. I struggle with the Zacutto view finder adapter. Solves one problem but creates another: you can't access the touch screen when it's in pace.

I'm thinking of buying a Lumix gh6 but I want BMRaw

If you have the budget for a GH6 and the Video Assist 12G then I would pick the Pocket 6K Pro or G2 with the EVF. I use the Pocket 6K Pro with the EVF and V-mount batteries. For hand held, I cable it to a v-mount battery that I either wear in a belt pouch or sling on a tripod for longer run times.

... Have you taken the 12g outside? to use as a viewfinder?

I was posting that photo to show how I shot my recent firmware 7.9 tests posted elsewhere. But it did work well indoors. Outdoors you can see the 12G screen at 2500nits in sunlight, but it drinks the dual NP-F970 batteries so only good for a relatively short shoot. However with a dark jacket over your head, turning the 12G brightness way down makes it very feasible. However my setup uses a tripod, not shoulder-mounted.

Am I hoping for the impossible with the gh6 (10bit internal on most codecs) matching up with the 12bit BMD Raw? Or is it possible the output of the hdmi port is adequate to support 12bit BMD Raw recording on the Video Assist 12g?

I’m not familiar with the GH6 capabilities but there are several third-party cameras from which the BMVA12G7 will record 12bit BRAW. I think Ryan’s post recommending the BMPCC6K G2 plus EVF is what I’d purchase (I don’t want the internal 2-4-6 IRND). But I’m biased towards BMD cameras and Resolve 18 for post production. I feel that combination gives superior colour and ultimately that’s a worthy goal.

Thanks to all for sharing your experience, knowledge and recommendations on this. It's a tough call. I went with the gh6 because of the ergonomics, the built-in EVF and the prospect off buying all new lenses. They huge crop factor didn't help to make the case for the BMD cameras.

It may be that I will return the gh6. It's kind of crazy to talk about ergonomics when you have to add an external monitor recorder to get BRAW, but I just didn't like the way the BMD cameras felt in my hands and I'm willing to tolerate VLog especially with high frames for those situations. Wish BMD could make an advanced camera in as small and well-balanced a package as the original Pocket Cinema 2k.

I am totally committed to Resolve in post. Definitely drank the koolaid. I love the Color section and the Fairlight section. The Editing section is getting better and better. Lots of included plug-ins. Compatibility with plug-ins for visuals not 100% there, say for Boris, but the responsiveness of the Blackmagic Design team is incredible. Imagine: a software/hardware universe where the company actually listens to the feedback and makes improvements! And doesn't charge for updates or rent you their software.

I guess shooting BRAW is just going to take a lot of battery power. No two ways about it.

Again thanks to all who replied. Let me know if any updates support the Video Assist 12g. I will keep checking back for them and post if I find out first.

I went with the gh6 because of the ergonomics, the built-in EVF and the prospect off buying all new lenses. They huge crop factor didn't help to make the case for the BMD cameras.

I don't understand what you mean by the "huge" crop factor. The crop factor for the BMPCC 4K is pretty much the same as the GH6. The BMPCC 6K has a larger sensor than either the GH6 or the BMPCC 4K, so the crop factor is smaller.

A cheaper solution is the $1995 USD BMPCC 6K G2. The maximum that it records at is 12 bit 6K BRAW 3.1 50 fps at 514 MB/s (if you can find media that is fast enough) and 12 bit 3.7K 6:5 BRAW 3.1 60 fps at 328 MB/s.

The $2199 USD Panasonic GH6 can record Anamorphic 4:3 5.8K (5760 x 4320) up to 30fps H.265 10-bit 4:2:0. Having a 4:3 sensor is an advantage for shooting with 2x anamorphic solutions. I'm not sure what resolution, but an article said that the GH6 can also shoot H.265 4:2:0 with a maximum bitrate of 300Mbps (37.5 MB/s). To record at 400 Mbps or less you need an SDXC UHS-II V60 which guarantee a 60MB/s data rate. The Angelbird V60 MK II has an advertised write speed of 136.4 MB/s, and has been tested on at 1091.2 Mbps.

BH Photo sells the Angelbird 256GB AV Pro MK2 UHS-II SDXC Memory Card for $109.99. 8 of these are 2TB at $879.92 USD.

The GH6 shoots 30fps H.265 10-bit 4:2:0 at 37.5 MB/s at a cost of ((3600x37.5) = (135000/1,000,000)x(109.99x4)) $59.40 USD per hour.

BH Photovideo charges $189.99 on sale for a high bitrate 299 MB/s write Sony 128GB SF-G Tough Series UHS-II V90 SDXC Memory Card.

Using this SDXC card, the H.264 ALL-Intra/MOV 4:2:2 10-Bit 3840 × 2160 at 29.97 fps 400 Mb/s (50 MB/s) at a cost of ((3600x50) = (180000/1,000,000)x(189.99x8)) $273.59 USD per hour.

These can also be used to record 4K DCI ProRes HQ at 60 fps on a BMPCC 4K, but at a cost of
((3600x241) = (867600/1,000,000)x(189.99x8)) $1,321.72 USD per hour!

If high bitrates were offered on most cameras using only SDXC cards for storage could anyone afford to use them?

6144x3456 BRAW 8:1 30p on the BMPCC 6K is 116 MB/sec.

Blackmagic recommends the 2TB Delkin Juggler SSD when recording BRAW 5.1 6144x3456 at 50 fps on the BMPCC 6K, at 308 MB/sec. It goes for $359.95 USD.

"In order to help you decide if you need a CFe card or not, we have prepared a simple table that lists all the modes that can only record to CFexpress Tybe B cards."

17:9 5.7K (5728 x 3024) up to 30fps 10 bit ProRes 422 or 422 HQ – bitrate between 1,016 (127 MB/s) and 10 bit ProRes 422 All-I 29.97 fps 1,903 (238 MB/s) Mbps.

Panasonic GH6 Video Modes that Require CFexpress Type B Cards

https://cameradecision.com/blog/Panason ... be-B-Cards

For anamorphic 2x solutions, the $1295 USD BMPCC 4K shoots 2.8K 4:3 anamorphic 12 bit BRAW 3.1 80 fps at 243 MB/s, and 10 bit ProRes HQ 80 fps at 510 MB/s.

Blackmagic pocket cameras capture more information that gives you greater latitude in post processing. The maximum bitrates of 4K DCI ProRes HQ at 60 fps on a BMPCC 4K takes up 241 Megabytes per sec. (1,928 mb/s). 6K DCI ProRes HQ at 50 fps on a BMPCC 6K takes up 478 Megabytes per sec. (3,824 mb/s).

Unfortunately, IBIS allows a sensor to overheat when recording at high fps, 12 bit raw with less compression. Their floating mount prevents them from acting as a heat sink. This is why no cinema camera (even Sony FX6) offers IBIS.

The Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K is able to record at 388 MB/s (3,104 mb/s) for long periods without overheating. This is due to a solid mounting of the sensor to a peltier cooler.

The Blackmagic cameras can record to the officially recommended Samsung T5 2TB SSD USB drives at $179.99 when on sale. No high bitrate storage is cheaper.

The Panasonic GH6 uses CFExpress Type B cards that are more expensive for 4K H.264 4:2:2 All-I recording at 800 Mb/sec. Due to their small size, you have to be very careful about budgeting storage/finding time to transfer over a 12 hour work day.

A 256GB CFExpress Type B card currently costs $269.99 on Amazon. 8 of them is 2TB at $2,159.92, about 12 times more.

Using a CFExpress type B card on a GH6, 4K DCI 17:9 ProRes (10-bit) 422 HQ 59.94 fps All-I records at up to ~2000 Mb/s (250 MB/s). That's ((3600x250)= (900,000/1,000,000)x(269.99x4)) $971.96 USD per hour!

4K DCI 17:9 H.264 4:2:2 All-I 29.97 fps recording at 800 Mb/s (100 MB/s). That's ((3600x100)= (360,000/1,000,000)x(269.99x4)) $388.79 USD per hour.

6.2K 3:2 ProRes (10-bit) 422 HQ 29.97 fps All-I records at up to ~2900 Mb/s (362.5 MB/s). That's ((3600x362.5) = (1,305,000/1,000,000)x(269.99x4)) $1,409.35 USD per hour!

Both the SanDisk and Sony CFExpress Ver.2.0 Type B cards above 64GB have this note when used in video recording:

(*1) Even if the camera body is not hot, video recording may end halfway due to heat generated by the card.

https://av.jpn.support.panasonic.com/su ... c_gh6.html

CFexpress cards will thermal throttle, so they may only give you half of what their rated speed is with a continuous video recording once things heat up. This shows that having a compact body without adequate cooling could become a liability.

Using a BMPCC 6K G2, you could shoot in BRAW 5.1 4K DCI 17:9 30 fps at 78 MB/sec., ((3600x78) = (280,800/1,000,000)x(179.99/2)) $25.27 USD per hour.

if you shoot BRAW 5.1 6K 16:9 at 30 fps, you record at 185 MB/sec., ((3600x185) = (666,000/1,000,000)x(179.99/2)) $59.94 USD per hour.

BRAW 3.1 6K at any speed? Forgetaboutit. Blackmagic has no media recommended for it, but you could take a chance at 309 MB/sec. on a more reliable and 8X more expensive Cfast 2 card. That's ((3600x309) = (1,112,400/1,000,000)x699.95) $778.62 USD per hour!

You also have the option to shoot at BRAW 6K continuous quality, which depending on what's in the image, ranges from 185 MB/s (talking heads, diffused background) to 462 MB/s (ultra-wide angle, sharp wet leaves).

The Panasonic GH6 can shoot H.264 Long GOP at 150-200Mbps. The results might be similar to this:

The ability to capture a 12 bit BRAW 3.1 shot at 60 MB/s (480 mb/s) gives you a lot more data to use in post than a 422 10 bit LongGOP shot at 150 mb/s. Here is a comparison of the images of the BMPCC 4K recording with BRAW with a $200 USD 1965 cinematic Zeiss Vario-Sonnar 10-100mm and the Panasonic GH5S with a sharp Panasonic Leica 12-60mm:

Re: PCC4K vs 6K for 16mm lenses

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=96913&p=592618&hilit=Vario+Sonnar+10+100mm#p592618

I'm thinking of buying a Lumix gh6 but I want BMRaw. I need something lighter and smaller than the Pocket Cinema 4k, 6k or 6k g2. So the obvious solution is to buy the gh6 and the Video Assist 12g.

...Anyone out there actually tried this combination: gh6 and Video Assist 12g to record in BMRaw?

The BRAW ability using a Blackmagic Video Assist recorder is definitely a plus that will save storage space, but several manufacturers that have tried it lack the highlight recovery in Da Vinci Resolve that Blackmagic cameras are capable of. Blackmagic cameras capture sensor information that other manufacturers (Panasonic, Canon) throw away. A BMPCC 6K Pro can record at 4 stops underexposed in poor light, and after using Resolve's highlight recovery, get greater shadow details, effectively extending it's dynamic range.

A severely underexposed image can be fixed if shot on a BMPCC 6K camera using BRAW:

Independent tests verify that Blackmagic's claim of approximately 13 (12.9) stops of Dynamic Range for the BMPCC 6K are accurate, if you use a SNR of 1. Comparing DR of a camera that does not add noise reduction in BRAW to one that adds heavy NR (Sony) and does not allow you to remove it is not a fair comparison. After you add NR in post, or if you downsample in resolution, it gets better. Since detail is substantially reduced when NR is added, having control over it in post lets you decide which image is better, and by how much.

BMPCC 6K:

"...dynamic range of 11.8 stops at a signal to noise ratio of 2 is calculated (12.9 stops for SNR = 1) (ISO 400)

...At ISO3200 the dynamic range drops quite significantly to 10.0 stops (SNR = 2) (11.3 at SNR = 1).

...the simplest/most accurate/comparable tests of dynamic range – they also give us very little information regarding how the camera responds to colors and detail across that range.

...That is why we are introducing an additional lab test, the latitude test.

...Latitude basically shows the capability of a camera to retain color and detail while over- or underexposing the image and normalizing it thereafter.

...Both the Pocket 4K (using 3840×2160 resolution) and 6K (6144×3456 resolution) were setup with BRAW 3:1 constant bitrate, ISO400 25p.

...the BMPCC 6K camera fares very very well in this test. It starts to show horizontal stripes (which cannot be removed by noise reduction as you will see further down) and the noise becomes excessive, but color information is retained very well.

...Now, as we shot in BRAW with both cams, the big question is whether using noise reduction in DaVinci Resolve can save some of the underexposed shots (temporal NR: 3 frames, threshold:30, spatial threshold: 10).

Yes, it can, but only on to a certain point – as soon as the horizontal stripes start to appear in the image, noise reduction cannot get rid of those and I found that the pink chroma noise is not removed any longer at 4 stops underexposure with the BMPCC 4K.

On the BMPCC 6K, noise reduction helps to get an almost stripe and noise free image up until 4 stops under – impressive! The 2x higher resolution of the BMPCC 6K along with noise reduction certainly helps to achieve this result.

And this brings us also to the clear, final result, using noise reduction: BMPCC 4K is very clean until 3 stops under, BMPCC 6K until 4 stops under!

...The lab results obtained with the new BMPCC 6K are impressive to say the least. The combination of a very good dynamic range with a superb codec (Blackmagic RAW) leads to superb images.

At a time where brand new much more expensive “cinema” camera’s are released with H.265 / H.264 as the only codec options, Blackmagic Design once more shows us all what is possible at this price point."

Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 6K Lab Test – Dynamic Range, Latitude, Rolling Shutter & More.

https://www.cined.com/blackmagic-pocket ... tter-more/

Blackmagic does not use battery saving application specific ASIC processors (like Panasonic) that prevents them from getting under the hood with their sensors to make changes. BM gets a lot of complaints about the battery drain on their multipurpose FPGA microchips, but they are able to offer more features regularly with firmware updates. BRAW is constantly getting quality upgrades at no cost to Blackmagic camera owners, as evidenced by a firmware update to the URSA Mini Pro 12K. By fine tuning BRAW to a sensor, highlight details can be retrieved when you leverage the tight integration with Da Vinci Resolve's highlight recovery feature.

It's unclear at this point if Panasonic has been able to get their act together to take advantage of Blackmagic's color science.

Captainhook (Blackmagic support) wrote:

"Our Highlight recovery will not work with the (Panasonic) S1H as it relies on channels that have not been clipped for a given wb to reconstruct extra highlight detail that the sensor could not capture, but the S1H 'throws away' this data before sending its 'RAW' output to the Video Assist. This is true for all the Panasonic cameras we currently support and the Canon C300 MKII."

Status quo of BRAW recorded with Panasonic S1H?

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=151376&p=807348&hilit=+Status+quo+of+BRAW+recorded+with+Panasonic+#p807348

Captainhook wrote:

"...(so a couple of) the 3rd party cameras can't have highlight recovery as they clip the data on the camera etc before sending out, and most of them use mostly analog gain for ISO (being DSLRs) so ISO is not available either but you can still adjust exposure +/-5 stops so that doesn't matter."

Re: Sigma fp with BRAW and DNG

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=138074&p=743518&hilit=Braw+iso+doesn%27t+matter#p743518

Thanks for that in-depth analysis. Totally makes sense. Sadly, the battery drain experience I had with the 2k really put me off. No such thing as a free lunch:) Only way to get at that highlight recovery is with a BMD camera. No real advantage then of using the Video Assist with the GH6. Might get a bit more flexibility but not the same dynamic range ultimately.

Thanks for that in-depth analysis. Totally makes sense. Sadly, the battery drain experience I had with the 2k really put me off. No such thing as a free lunch:) Only way to get at that highlight recovery is with a BMD camera. No real advantage then of using the Video Assist with the GH6. Might get a bit more flexibility but not the same dynamic range ultimately.

I am shooting BRAW with a Nikon Z6 + the VA 12G. I am getting excellent dynamic range and highlight recovery in any case without the DVR Highlight Recovery feature simply by using the exposure slider in the Camera Raw panel. I can recover detail in highlights that are about two stops overexposed - maybe more. Really I don't think the inability to use Highlight Recovery should be a deal breaker - it's nice but certainly not essential.

The bigger issue for you would seem to be the GH6 not being able to do BRAW if I am understanding the situation correctly. You mentioned the Ninja V up there somewhere as being ProRes Raw capable. An alternative option would be a Ninja V with ProRes Raw and convert to ProResHQ using some other software before importing into Resolve.

Sure, if you care to expose carefully, you don’t really need highlight recovery.
But then, do you really need to make your equipment bulky and add points of failure instead of recording log internally in 10 bit 4:2:2?

Sure, if you care to expose carefully, you don’t really need highlight recovery.
But then, do you really need to make your equipment bulky and add points of failure instead of recording log internally in 10 bit 4:2:2?

The Nikon Z6 and family only have internal 8 bit H.264 which is pretty poor quality with little latitude in post so I would still need an external recorder for log video. I am too much into Nikon from my stills work to consider changing systems and I have my eye on a Z9 eventually. ProRes Raw and BRAW have some significant advantages over log - ability to change WB in post and better highlight detail recovery. I'm careful with highlight clipping using the parade or waveform scopes on the monitors. The image quality is excellent.

The weight can be a problem of course. I shoot with a tripod - even more weight. I add movement in post. The only point of failure I've experienced is with a HDMI cable coming loose so that requires care.

I am too much into Nikon from my stills work to consider changing systems and I have my eye on a Z9 eventually.

The Nikon Z9 is making a splash among those who like 8K. Can you afford the cost of the consumables?

A Exascend Nitro CFExpress type B 1TB card with the VPG400 certification rated for Nikon Z9’s N-RAW 12-bit 8K 60p 750 MB/s costs $1199 USD. Shooting at a rate of 750 MB/s will have a cost of ((3600x750)= (2700000/1,000,000)x1199) $3,237.30 USD per hour!

For recording ProRes 422 HQ 4.1K 60p on a Nikon Z9 at 250 MB/s, you can use the Exascend 1TB Element CFexpress Card type B at $459 USD. That comes to ((3600x250)= (900,000/1,000,000)x459) $413.10 USD per hour.

The Nikon Z9 records H265 4K 60fps 10 bit at 340Mbps (42.5 MB/s). That comes to ((3600x42.5)= (153,000/1,000,000)x459) $70.23 USD per hour.

r/videography Best camera for Documentaries on a $10-12,000 budget? Nikon Z9 vs A7S III vs GH6

https://www.reddit.com/r/videography/co ... 00_budget/