Drone camera.. PLEASE!!

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Justin Jackson

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Drone camera.. PLEASE!!

PostThu May 26, 2022 1:33 am

So I am getting back in to drones, and I see they now have these cool $2K or so "cine lifter" drones.. where they mount the BMPCC4K/6K or similar sized cinema camera (Red Komodo, etc) on an otherwise FPV drone, usually with 8 motors instead of 4.. and it can fly around for a few minutes or so tops due to weight/etc.

Of ALL the companies making cameras.. I would love to see Black Magic make an updated 6K/8K sensor camera in small form factor specifically to mount on a drone. Something smaller/lighter than the BMPCC4K/6K, doesn't need all the outputs.. just the S35 sensor (if possible), USBC and fast card options to record, BRAW recording format, and internal battery that can record for 30 minutes or so.. since it seems drones cant fly for more than 10 minutes anyway.. assuming a smaller/lighter camera.. if we got 20 minutes of flight time with it that would be amazing.

Please.. Black Magic.. redo the Studio 4K camera that I can't seem to find any more.. in to a 6K S35 sensor.. in that same (or similar) form factor.. and make it a Drone camera product but with 4K60 or 8K60/4K120 in BRAW format. I swear to you it would sell like crazy!
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Uli Plank

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Re: Drone camera.. PLEASE!!

PostThu May 26, 2022 9:54 am

Justin Jackson wrote:I swear to you it would sell like crazy!


Are you sure? In most countries you'll get into a weight class with drones that is far more restricted to fly.
And with DJI improving their cameras more and more in smaller drones, I doubt there's that much of a market. Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see a new tiny BM camera in 4K.
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Justin Jackson

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Re: Drone camera.. PLEASE!!

PostThu Jun 02, 2022 9:26 pm

Drones as far as I can tell are taking off like crazy now. More and more videos, builders, etc. The FPV drone market where they put GoPros on them.. is huge. Well.. bigger than it was and growing.

Yes.. there are some restrictions.. if you plan to record for monetary reasons, you do have to get the FCC Part 107 license. From what I heard.. it's not easy..but if you study.. its worth it. As well.. though I don't have any numbers to back it up, I suspect those that DO obtain the license have a far better shot at picking up paid work. Assuming they have the drone pilot chops to earn them work.

The interesting thing about FPV is you can do a lot of things the bigger drones with big movie rigs can't do. You can get some amazing rolling shots, dive shots, up close as you orbit around shots, etc. You can do some of these things to a degree with the bigger setups.. but a) not nearly as easily and b) unlikely most would be willing to gamble 30K+ in drone/camera gear.

You throw a 1K to 2K action camera by BM that can shoot 4K to 8K BRAW on to cfast or fast enough XDHC cards, on a smaller 5" to 8" FPV drone.. you're talking $4K or so in total price.. and a LOT more people can fly those.

I don't think it would be huge.. but I bet they would see a lot of sales with such a camera. Frankly I still like the idea of the modular brain + lens adapter + lens option.

Most of these drones only fly for 3 to 8 minutes.. so it's not like you need a huge battery to power the camera. The BMPCC4K on a cinelifter is already a viable platform.. but a smaller/lighter action sized camera that can record BRAW in at least 4 to 4.6K would be a big deal. I wish they would repurpose the original 1080P pocket camera they came out with.. but with an S35 sensor if possible and BRAW support with 4K. That would be amazing.
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carlomacchiavello

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Re: Drone camera.. PLEASE!!

PostThu Jun 02, 2022 10:09 pm

Search naked 4k
You find people that build fpv drones with disassemble pocket4k
To me they are crazy people (-and someone fryer 4K cam with wrong power)
In Italy we have very tight rules also if you have patent and more, and also a small light cameras cannot fly without tons of approve to from different ways
Many people fly in illegal way and risk, but if you want to fly legally you cannot fly on no one cities with drone and additional camera.
Some years ago I flies with a friend of mine with triple Patents for every kind of scenary and in Rome we need tons of paper to fly, twenty five days before we ask permission and until day before we risk to not fly.
Is simpler to ask permission with classic one block drones, and we fly with inspire two with his x7 and ciberecorder, the asking for drones and custom camera never meet the security laws and never reiceve the allow to fly,


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Uli Plank

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Re: Drone camera.. PLEASE!!

PostFri Jun 03, 2022 7:35 am

Too many people have made too many stupid things with drones.
Now we got tight restrictions everywhere, not just in Italy. The very lightweight drones have less restrictions and manufacturers are constantly improving on their cameras. Have a look at the new DJI Mini 3. I don’t think there is any interesting market in it for BM.
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carlomacchiavello

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Re: Drone camera.. PLEASE!!

PostFri Jun 03, 2022 7:47 am

Uli Plank wrote:Too many people have made too many stupid things with drones.
Now we got tight restrictions everywhere, not just in Italy. The very lightweight drones have less restrictions and manufacturers are constantly improving on their cameras. Have a look at the new DJI Mini 3. I don’t think there is any interesting market in it for BM.


i quote in all 100%
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Kim Janson

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Re: Drone camera.. PLEASE!!

PostFri Jun 03, 2022 8:36 am

On drone you do not want battery on the camera, nor external storage, just a small camera, and would be super good to have wel documented serial interface to control the camera and lens.

Also you do not want connectors sticking randomly to every direction, Over all it would be good to consult someone who understands drones and gimbals. We do.

This was before DJI dominated the markets 2014, on this demo the focus was on the drone and gimbal integration, the video is directly from camera, so horizon is not corrected, no stabilisation added, just directly from GoPro 4, so the video quality is not great. But you get the idea what it was about to be.



On this one one clip was reversed


There was prototype for much bigger drone



and Idea to put the micro cinema camera on this gimbal to it. (modified for drone use)



But with DJI it come clear it is all about the price, and good enough quality, and automated flight control to make it easy to people who had no previous knowledge of drones. There was no business on that for small company, except designing OEM gimbals for drones, for the few that need something special. That we did.

At that time the air regulations where still pretty easy. Now they are changing very fast to the direction of the requirements set for manned aircrafts, and that does not make it easy to build or operate drone in future. Also DJI will be facing that, but they have the needed resources.
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ShaheedMalik

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Re: Drone camera.. PLEASE!!

PostMon Jun 06, 2022 4:17 am

I just want a new Blackmagic Micro Cinema Camera 4k.
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Kim Janson

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Re: Drone camera.. PLEASE!!

PostWed Jun 08, 2022 11:40 am

Global shutter would be nice for high quality drone and action camera. It would be a unique feature. It would find its ways to VR studios also if sensitive enough and low noice, especially if it would have simple way for full camera and lens control and some advanced ways for synching exposure time. Really would be time for something simpler and better than timecode and genlock .
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Justin Jackson

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Re: Drone camera.. PLEASE!!

PostMon Jun 27, 2022 5:14 pm

I read all replies.. and I agree to some extent on most of it. Yes.. many places including US and Canada now require various things to fly anything larger than 250g.. which is all but the tiny tiny whoop drones that while their FPV cameras are now doing 720p (maybe even 1080.. I just bought the HD Zero + ELRS whoop and it wasnt cheap... $200 USD.. but have yet to fly it).

However.. there is a growing segment called FPV Cinema (or cine lifters). This segment is the one I am talking about and while yes.. technically you STILL need to pass the Part 107 exam in the US to fly it IF you plan to use the video for money/commercial purposes.. it's still possible to fly your drone for non commercial uses in say the woods, rivers, lakes, parks, etc. Another thing I found out which I think almost no drone person knows.. is technically in the USA you also need a HAM radio license to operate the drone. Even the small ones.. since they use the same radio frequencies. But almost nobody does that for sure.

Anyway.. I strongly disagree that a BM quality action camera.. be it a BOX camera that is about 1KG or so on it's own.. with EF/PL mount and S35 sensor and 4K to 8K BRAW options would not be well received, not only in the drone market that I am talking about.. but others as well. The biggest issue I read about with GoPro/Insta360/etc is the quality of the video. It's always highly compressed h265. Now.. if GoPro/et all came out with a camera that did at least 10bit ProRes recording on it.. or better.. then it probably would not benefit BM to get into the market. My point is.. right now.. if they came out in the next year with an action camera style.. or a box camera with modular options.. that show 4K to 8K (ideally 8K since the 8K market is slowly starting to spin up with TVs, projectors and more and more cameras.. like those on all the mobile phones today).. that they could tap in to a market that is dying to have a smaller camera that can shoot RAW of some sort.

Yes.. I agree DJI is about the best thing going..their drone + zenmuse cameras that shoot 10bit to RAW are really good.. good enough. But the cost is quite a bit.. and for a LOT of drone folks who invested in other goggles, controllers, and like to do a bit of DIY too.. they are left out. Yes.. I agree that market is tiny and not nearly big enough for BM to go build a new camera for.. but on the flip side.. BM is notorious for creating a market for it's cameras. I would even say if they could do a 4K BRAW/MFT similar to size as the original pocket.. that would be huge. Being able to record in in BRAW on an FPV cine lifter drone would make it possible to get in to that market for about 3K.. drone, camera, etc. You may say DJI has similar for 3K.. but their drones re not FPV capable.. which is a new/improved way to be able to do things with drones and cinema that currently dont exist (or.. well are just starting to with Gopros, etc). Yah.. they got the FPV drone too.. and frankly.. this is another reason.. that DJI has built an FPV cinema drone.. shows you there is a market. If they put the zenmuse cameras in the FPV drone.. and sell it for 2K to 3K.. then it may be pointless. But if not.. there is a market for a good BRAW capable smaller action camera. On par with the micro cinema camera. Hell.. bring the micro cinema back.. with BRAW.. that's probably all we need. :D
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Kim Janson

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Re: Drone camera.. PLEASE!!

PostMon Jun 27, 2022 6:32 pm

People are using pocket cameras for FPV, some as it is, some pretty light https://rotorbuilds.com/build/25937

Yes it would be super nice to get BMD interested making a small camera, even well integrated with a gimbal...
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carlomacchiavello

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Re: Drone camera.. PLEASE!!

PostMon Jun 27, 2022 9:51 pm

Too often I saw people that talk about a market that not exist.
How many people understand how big should be the number of camera selled to be a market where Invest money and time for a small structure like Blackmagic?
Do you think that 1000-2000 cameras selled for drone’s people should be enough to recover simply the investment and research time?

If you think there is so much people, do like some distribution bluray facility did, do a Kickstarter for Blackmagic, people invest their money to show to Blackmagic that they are really interest to buy it, then when Blackmagic Design can see a real number can develop a special version of pocket4k naked and optimised for drones.
You know what it mean ?
- change structure of camera to be able to fly, support vibration and many others stress never thought for camera
- change distance (shimming) for lens mount
- change software that not need to be connected to screen to boot up, and should not freeze when you disconnect it
- change the way that camera use power and heat dissipation.

Not like develop a newer camera, but l not a simple work.
Blackmagic Design is a commercial entity and if drones cameras is a good business they will do another camera.
But with ever more complex and limited ability to fly in every part of world, also in Italy there are tons of complex rules also for who had patents and authorisation, this market is more difficult to reach than others.


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madchiller

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Re: Drone camera.. PLEASE!!

PostTue Jul 05, 2022 6:21 pm

An updated Micro CC in 4K would be the perfect solution for this….
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Justin Jackson

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Re: Drone camera.. PLEASE!!

PostSat Aug 20, 2022 1:34 am

Exactly.. updated Micro CC 4K would be perfect.

With the whole Remote ID crap the FAA just slammed down everyone's throats though.. I would not want to see BM waste the time right now.. until the FAA/remote ID is fully baked and done.. because as it is now.. a LOT of drone pilots wont be flying soon. FAA doesn't give two craps about the average hobby flyer or youtuber. They only care about the big money companies like Amazon who can give them millions.. to help ensure their drones fly and the rest of us get screwed over. Hopefully something will change and account for the "was growing" drone pilots. Shame such a governing body can screw over a huge population of people and companies all for a couple big money companies.
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Uli Plank

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Re: Drone camera.. PLEASE!!

PostSat Aug 20, 2022 6:50 am

Justin Jackson wrote:Shame such a governing body can screw over a huge population of people and companies all for a couple big money companies.


Isn't that what they are established for?
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carlomacchiavello

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Re: Drone camera.. PLEASE!!

PostSat Aug 20, 2022 8:22 am

Kim Janson wrote:People are using pocket cameras for FPV, some as it is, some pretty light https://rotorbuilds.com/build/25937

Yes it would be super nice to get BMD interested making a small camera, even well integrated with a gimbal...
Right, I know two of them that build this kind of rig with naked p4k but with a tons of difficult and limits. First is exposed to dust, damage and more.


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Kim Janson

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Re: Drone camera.. PLEASE!!

PostSat Aug 20, 2022 10:11 am

Yes, it is not ideal, not easy, but one could 3D print enclosure to protect it. Now testing carbon fibre enforced PC filament and it is pretty promising.

There is also the aspect, if it is easy, everyone is doing it,...

carlomacchiavello wrote:
Kim Janson wrote:People are using pocket cameras for FPV, some as it is, some pretty light https://rotorbuilds.com/build/25937

Yes it would be super nice to get BMD interested making a small camera, even well integrated with a gimbal...
Right, I know two of them that build this kind of rig with naked p4k but with a tons of difficult and limits. First is exposed to dust, damage and more.


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carlomacchiavello

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Drone camera.. PLEASE!!

PostSat Aug 20, 2022 6:11 pm

Kim Janson wrote:Yes, it is not ideal, not easy, but one could 3D print enclosure to protect it. Now testing carbon fibre enforced PC filament and it is pretty promising.

There is also the aspect, if it is easy, everyone is doing it,...

carlomacchiavello wrote:
Kim Janson wrote:People are using pocket cameras for FPV, some as it is, some pretty light https://rotorbuilds.com/build/25937

Yes it would be super nice to get BMD interested making a small camera, even well integrated with a gimbal...
Right, I know two of them that build this kind of rig with naked p4k but with a tons of difficult and limits. First is exposed to dust, damage and more.


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I follow them and admire them but disassembling is not in my skill :-)
I’m interest to 3d printing carbon fibre enforced :-)


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wemrick1

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Re: Drone camera.. PLEASE!!

PostMon Aug 22, 2022 11:26 am

All wonderful stuff. Lots of things happening in the drone industry for sure. For me and what I do, my little DJI Mavic 2 Pro is just fine for the occasional three second establishing shot.

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