No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

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John Paines

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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostTue Sep 27, 2022 9:19 pm

The Third Man is a pretty Wellesian movie (I suspect Carol Reed admired him more than you do), and not always in the kindest sense. Even the conceit of the unseen manipulator/magician is Wellesian and which is much stronger in movie than in the Greene novella, where Harry Lime is a sordid uncharismatic figure.

But I think that's my last volley on this one.... And no, I haven't swallowed anything.
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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostWed Sep 28, 2022 7:06 am

John Paines wrote:But I think that's my last volley on this one.... And no, I haven't swallowed anything.


Your volleys have been great John, and your film history knowledge is extensive :) It's good to spar gently occasionally about these things to realise what the tools we love are really for. I admire Welles very much, people have forgotten largely now, why he was so fantastically disruptive and it's all there in Kane. But there were also many many directors, working within the studio system who bent it to their will in amazing ways. And they've always interested me more. It wasn't until Cahiers Du Cinema coined the term auteur, that anyone took people like Hitchcock, Ford and Sirk seriously, other than jobbing crew. Thanks.
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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostWed Sep 28, 2022 11:05 pm

Back to camera announcements, this new Sony is exactly the same as the FX3 with the exception that it has an S35 sensor.

For $1795, this is much a good deal.
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Jack Fairley

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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostThu Sep 29, 2022 12:21 am

Ellory Yu wrote:Back to camera announcements, this new Sony is exactly the same as the FX3 with the exception that it has an S35 sensor.

For $1795, this is much a good deal.

Can I pay another $1000 to not use a Sony menu?
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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostThu Sep 29, 2022 12:50 am

Jack Fairley wrote:Can I pay another $1000 to not use a Sony menu?


Features are good, but it's still only 10 bit....

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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostThu Sep 29, 2022 1:03 am

I have seen 2-3 sites and multiple youtube videos stating that this is a BMD killer. It will be an interesting discussion, however there is a big difference between 10-bit Sony codec and BRAW. However that's never the only criteria for buying a new camera.
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John Brawley

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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostThu Sep 29, 2022 1:08 am

I think it could still be very interesting as AF and IBIS is a big deal...

but 10 bit AND a codec that's problematic to work with....pretty big downsides...Typical Sony mentality though....

That's aside from what the actual pictures look like out of it of course...!

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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostThu Sep 29, 2022 1:12 am

I will say that I have 2 BMPCC 6k cameras and 3 Sony cameras ( A7sIII, FX3, and A1) I have found that they tend to match up well when grading them on the same timeline. I will also say that I tend to triple check my Sony settings as they cannot be changed later.
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Jack Fairley

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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostThu Sep 29, 2022 1:45 am

John Brawley wrote:but 10 bit AND a codec that's problematic to work with....pretty big downsides...

Yes, I would hugely prefer better in-camera recording options from Sony. In AMD CPU/NVidia GPU Windows land, I more or less need to transcode everything to ProRes with my M1 MBP.
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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostThu Sep 29, 2022 3:17 am

Jack Fairley wrote:
John Brawley wrote:but 10 bit AND a codec that's problematic to work with....pretty big downsides...

Yes, I would hugely prefer better in-camera recording options from Sony. In AMD CPU/NVidia GPU Windows land, I more or less need to transcode everything to ProRes with my M1 MBP.

Ha, I do the same too. That’s a shortcoming of Sony’s. Aside from the 10-bit codec, feature/price - it’s a good deal especially for AF, IBIS as JB mentioned, and a good low light cam.

I read that it the HDMI output supports 16-bit raw video to select, separately available recorders. I wonder if it can write out BRAW or Prores RAW to a Atomos recorder. That would solve the 10 bit codec limitations.

I wish BMD will actually make a pocket or kind of box type form factor with similar features and with BRAW. I know that’s wishful thinking but I can at least wish.
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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostThu Sep 29, 2022 4:25 am

Jack Fairley wrote:
John Brawley wrote:but 10 bit AND a codec that's problematic to work with....pretty big downsides...

Yes, I would hugely prefer better in-camera recording options from Sony. In AMD CPU/NVidia GPU Windows land, I more or less need to transcode everything to ProRes with my M1 MBP.

This is what Sony is recommending as the media for use in the FX30:

Sony 640GB CFexpress Type A TOUGH Memory Card $1248.00 USD
Max Write Speed: 700 MB/s

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... 2DB11AF4D1

Using the recommended media, the Sony FX30 records 4K UHD 60p XAVC S-I, MP4, H.264, Linear PCM at 600 Mbps (75 MB/s) at a cost of ((3600x75)= (270000/1,000,000)x((1000000/640000)x1248) $526.50 USD per hour!

They could have used a cheaper SSD drive like Blackmagic or the Panasonic GH6 now offers. Why are they marketing a companion CFexpress Type A card that can record at a speed of over 9x faster than what this camera is capable of?
Last edited by dondidnod on Sat Oct 01, 2022 12:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostThu Sep 29, 2022 8:29 am

John Brawley wrote:but 10 bit AND a codec that's problematic to work with....pretty big downsides...Typical Sony mentality though....JB


The reason John, Sony dominates the broadcast market, a far huger one than streaming or anything else, with once FS7s and now FX9s is because of 10bit 4:2:2 intraframes 50/100mbs codecs that meet minimum specs, yet offer huge shooting ratio storage advantages. Broadcast hardly ever works with raw and Prores takes up too much space - it's S-log, XAVC>Avid. BMD has nothing in this arena, even the H.264/5 on the UBG2 is only good for news, it is not considered broadcast quality. I am working currently for one of the largest independent media groups in the UK and they literally bought hundreds of FX9s.

Sony's philosophy too is like BMD, hook you into their world at a good pric and perhaps you'll step up to buy the better cameras, if you become pro. This is at a direct price point to compete with the Pockets, as well.
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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostThu Sep 29, 2022 10:20 am

I don’t think Sony and BMD are the same here Steve.

One company offers the exact same codec at the same bit depth across every model, with the cost spread of $1295 to $6385. Same bit depth, same media and a cost ratio of 4.93 between the lowest and highest cost model.

Sony offer a plethora of different models, shooting different codecs and different bit depths at a far greater price spread with much different proprietary media. The cost ratio for a fx30 Vs A Venice 2 is 27.29. Just a 1tb Sony AXS card for a Venice 2 is $4000 if you can get one.

BMD don’t cripple a camera to get you into an eco system to hope leverage you into a higher need model for better specs. They just don’t think that way. It’s the same codec top to bottom and what changes is the form factor and with that the top frame rate and space requiring features like attachments and numbers of outputs.

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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostThu Sep 29, 2022 10:29 am

John Brawley wrote:BMD don’t cripple a camera to get you into an eco system to hope leverage you into a higher need model for better specs. They just don’t think that way. It’s the same codec top to bottom and what changes is the form factor and with that the top frame rate and space requiring features like attachments and numbers of outputs.


No, no, I wasn't suggesting that John. :) When you hear Grant Petty lay it out, which sure sounds sincere to me, BMD want to 'empower' you with tools at an affordable (and free) price to create and hopefully as you progress you will buy their hardware, that enables them and pays them to do this. As you say all the cameras, top to bottom work the same way, so that learning one means you can easily move up to the other. Sony are far less charitable much more corporate in their philosophy. I just meant there are parallels in how they cultivate loyalty, not the ethos behind it and why they have a hook in broadcast, with largely horrible post codecs.

It's personal and irrational but I hate Sony cameras, the look, the codec and the form factor, except for the classic ENG ones - they just don't inspire you the way humble BMD does. I wish deeply I worked with more BMD camera rushes than I do!

And all that hooha around the launch of this FX30 - you'd have thought it was the second coming - I was expecting some game changer, between the Venice and the FX9, not this wee thing :lol:
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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostThu Sep 29, 2022 12:33 pm

Steve Fishwick wrote:And all that hooha around the launch of this FX30 - you'd have thought it was the second coming - I was expecting some game changer, between the Venice and the FX9, not this wee thing :lol:


It's odd that they call the FX30 a "cinema camera" when it lacks basic features like shutter angle and accurate frame rate displays (23.98 is shown as 24). It's a marketing gimmic: the main market seems to be "content creators" for youtube as well as the broadcast market, but Sony touts it as a "cinema" camera to give it some mojo. I have to admit it's intersting to me for several reasons, mainly because almost any lens can be adapted to e-mount, APS-C is more attractive to me than full-frame, and it has decent low-light capabilities. And Sony has vastly improved their menus in recent models.
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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostThu Sep 29, 2022 2:24 pm

Brad Hurley wrote:
Steve Fishwick wrote:It's odd that they call the FX30 a "cinema camera".


I guess "Enthusiast's Online Content Camera" didn't sound appealing enough.
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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostThu Sep 29, 2022 4:53 pm

The NewsShooter has Matthew Allard’s review of the FX30 and it’s an exhaustive (and exhausting to) read, but it does included detailed comparisons to the FX3 and they’re not the same in terms of features. Worth a look for anyone considering a purchase.

Not interested myself. Unable to comprehend why the traditional manufacturers don’t support real 24 and 30 and 60 fps. While pretending they do.
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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostThu Sep 29, 2022 5:35 pm

John Brawley wrote: Just a 1tb Sony AXS card for a Venice 2 is $4000 if you can get one.

JB


I think this is a bigger ripoff than the camera costs. NAND flash is NAND flash...
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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostFri Sep 30, 2022 1:33 am

John Brawley wrote:I think it could still be very interesting as AF and IBIS is a big deal...

but 10 bit AND a codec that's problematic to work with....pretty big downsides...Typical Sony mentality though....

That's aside from what the actual pictures look like out of it of course...!

JB


You're so shortsighted John. You need to pretend its late 2017, and then suddenly the FX30 becomes a really compelling product. I mean who needs cutting edge features, that's just for nerds, right?
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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostFri Sep 30, 2022 6:15 am

The FX30 looks to me like a downstripped A7IV. A bit pricey for that. The only advantage I can assume is less RS.
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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostSun Oct 02, 2022 11:43 am

Yeah, not convinced the FX30 is a "Blackmagic killer" at all.

Alluring as the small form factor is, I regularly have to use an A7III for work and find myself constantly missing things that are a simple given on BM cameras; not least a coherent menu system.
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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostSun Oct 02, 2022 12:15 pm

Uli Plank wrote:The FX30 looks to me like a downstripped A7IV. A bit pricey for that. The only advantage I can assume is less RS.

The A7IV has a 36x24mm sensor and way more RS than the A7sII / FX3 sensor. The 10bit H265 is very good IME. Unbreakable when heavily graded (unlike the Panasonic internal codecs) and never had an issue with PC playback.
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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostSun Oct 02, 2022 1:51 pm

The biggest liability of the FX30 is likely the difficulty many will encounter grading slog. The equipment assumes a level of mastery of post-production that the likeliest buyers won't possess, which is true of the market generally now. Or maybe this one is really intended for S-Cinetone shooting.
Last edited by John Paines on Sun Oct 02, 2022 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostSun Oct 02, 2022 2:21 pm

If you shoot the A7IV in crop mode, I doubt that there's that much more RS.
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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostSun Oct 02, 2022 3:50 pm

FX30 looks nice but no shutter angle on a cinema line camera with multiple frame rates is just silly.
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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostSun Oct 02, 2022 3:52 pm

John Paines wrote:The biggest liability of the FX30 is likely the difficulty many will encounter grading slog. The equipment assumes a level of mastery of post-production that the likeliest buyers won't possess, which is true of the market generally now. Or maybe this one is really intended for S-Cinetone shooting.

Slog is no more difficult to grade than any other log IME and as you say there is cinetone or REC709/2020 and may other profiles (loads infact) for straight to delivery uses.
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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostSun Oct 02, 2022 4:02 pm

Well, I think it *is* more difficult. But slog aside, log itself is not well understood at this end of the market. Incorrectly normalized footage is still commonplace, with results worse than you'd expect from a point and shoot. Typical buyers at this end of the market don't often have post-production experience.
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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostSun Oct 02, 2022 4:12 pm

The biggest problem with Sony's Slog is lack of linearity in Slog-2 and Slog-3 being too flat for a 10 bit codec in most scenes. And then, Slog-3 in an 8 bit codec is sheer crap.
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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostSun Oct 02, 2022 4:32 pm

Uli Plank wrote:The biggest problem with Sony's Slog is lack of linearity in Slog-2 and Slog-3 being too flat for a 10 bit codec in most scenes. And then, Slog-3 in an 8 bit codec is sheer crap.

Never use S-LOG 2 (who does these days) and haven't found 3 too flat for 10bit at all and as I said holds up really well when graded. Any LOG in 8bit is sheer crap esp combined with an in camera codec.
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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostSun Oct 02, 2022 4:34 pm

Did you already encounter a scene where Slog-3 is really filling those 10 bits?
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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostSun Oct 02, 2022 4:35 pm

John Paines wrote:Well, I think it *is* more difficult. But slog aside, log itself is not well understood at this end of the market. Incorrectly normalized footage is still commonplace, with results worse than you'd expect from a point and shoot. Typical buyers at this end of the market don't often have post-production experience.
What in particular do you find more difficult to grade? I'd also have thought given the price and specs it's in the same market segment as the BM pocket cameras (hence why it's being discussed here)
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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostSun Oct 02, 2022 4:36 pm

Uli Plank wrote:Did you already encounter a scene where Slog-3 is really filling those 10 bits?

Yes.
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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostSun Oct 02, 2022 5:51 pm

John Griffin wrote:What in particular do you find more difficult to grade?


Because, even when using sanctioned procedures, manufacturer LUTs or color management, slog takes much more effort (from me) than, say, Canon log, LogC or BMD Film to get a passable result.... But we not agree on what an acceptable grade looks like. That's been known to happen here, ten thousands words later....

John Griffin wrote:I'd also have thought given the price and specs it's in the same market segment as the BM pocket cameras (hence why it's being discussed here)


Yes, the same; when the BMPCC 4K was first released, members of the Facebook group routinely posted stills of log footage and others praised its excellent quality. To this day, folks have known to post what is plainly incorrectly normalized footage in this very forum and drawn conclusions about the footage, rather than the colorist. It's a fraught subject. The technology surpassed the skills of its likely users a few years ago.... Most buyers of the FX30 will probably be better off shooting S-Cinetone.
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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostSun Oct 02, 2022 6:19 pm

Which is actually quite acceptable if lighting and exposure are correct and there's no time for grading.
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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostSun Oct 02, 2022 6:20 pm

In terms of the log response curve S-LOG 3 is very similar to Arri C or V-log i.e linear apart from the shadows. Colour difference are likley more dependent on the sensor and camera than the gamut and Sony colour is notoriously a challenge say compared to Canon and BM for sure but it's still achievable IME.
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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostMon Oct 03, 2022 7:50 pm

John Griffin wrote:Colour difference are likley more dependent on the sensor and camera than the gamut and Sony colour is notoriously a challenge say compared to Canon and BM for sure but it's still achievable IME.
It's both. The sensors are different **and** the primaries of each gamut are different between Sony, Canon, Red, etc. Even within one manufacturer they can be different. Sony for example has Sgamut3 versus Sgamut3.cine that are quite different. It's the former of the two gamuts that gave Sony it's rep for being harder to grade because the primaries didn't line up on the same hue vectors for the primaries of most display spaces. Sgamut3.cine does line up so for those who try to grade using just CDL or Lift/Gamma/Gain, the results are what they expect. If you're faced with Sgmaut3 footage, just use a transform (like a LUT or CST node, or DCTL) to move the primaries into your display color space at the end of the color pipeline and grade underneath that (or an IDT to move the primaries into your working color space, and then an ODT at the end of the pipeline.)
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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostMon Oct 10, 2022 6:12 pm

I cross my fingers for an October announcement: I'm that close to buy a R5C because of the better sensor (low light quality is fantastic) and for it's versatility. But I hate to left BRAW behind cause that codec and workflow is just the best I've experienced so far! Not to mention the fantastic UI of BM.
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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostTue Oct 11, 2022 2:56 am

It wouldn’t shock me if Blackmagic just stuck with the 6K Pro for a very long time. The other cameras in the space now have incredible auto focus, low light, amazing image stabilization… All things that Blackmagic may not be able to do, if they haven’t invested heavily in them. Those technologies (at least IS and continuous AF) are all proprietary and take decades to develop.

I would LOVE to be wrong, After all, I own 4 different iterations of their smaller cams. But they’re already at 6K, and I just don’t know what other features they could add, other than resolution. It would make sense if they just went all-in on the Ursa Mini. People don’t really miss IS or amazing AF on cameras like that.

Anyway, my random speculation.
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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostTue Oct 11, 2022 3:01 am

Philipp Walz wrote:I cross my fingers for an October announcement: I'm that close to buy a R5C because of the better sensor (low light quality is fantastic) and for it's versatility. But I hate to left BRAW behind cause that codec and workflow is just the best I've experienced so far! Not to mention the fantastic UI of BM.

I'm generally not a big fan of either Canon or Sony's UI and Menu design. Even in Canon's higher end cinema cameras I tend to get annoyed by the way it's all set up. Feels too much like engineers fingers as opposed to actual camera operators.

That's the massive difference with Blackmagic and their wonderful UI and Menu! It feels like it was designed by camera operators and, the truth is, that it was.

Any lack of camera announcements at this time feels like a good sign for some new designs in the future. And, with new designs I'm completely happy with Blackmagic taking the time to get it right.
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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostTue Oct 11, 2022 3:05 am

Greg Lee wrote:It would make sense if they just went all-in on the Ursa Mini. People don’t really miss IS or amazing AF on cameras like that.

The only time that AutoFocus would be handy is in situations that you're doing an interview or a teleprompter reading. And, that's currently where the Sony FX9 and FX6 are currently being asked for the most by clients and producers. I still get plenty of work with my URSA Mini because of the image quality. But the convenience of AF in those cameras for those documentaries and interviews is very apparent.

I'm fine with Blackmagic going in on the URSA Line. Like I have said in the past I'd love to see the URSA, URSA Mini, and URSA Micro become the three options for the URSA Line. Or, as I have said in the past a new name for the new line of cameras.
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Ellory Yu

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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostTue Oct 11, 2022 3:49 am

I love the URSA lines but I doubt if BMD will go all in on the URSAs. After all, they quickly abandoned the firmware updates when they had their hands on the Pocket. This started happening when the P4K and P6K came out and look at where the firmware is at for the G2. The the P6K Pro came out and the U12K firmware just got sideways. There’s a pattern here.
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ricardo marty

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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostTue Oct 11, 2022 5:35 am

BMD can go AI for AF or maybe a lidar. The P4-6k market segment will dry up. The fx30 is good enough for most beginners and some not so beginners. That's the future. I'm stuck with braw, and because I don't want the added weight of an onboard recorder. But af is very tempting, especially for my getting older eyes.

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Philipp Walz

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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostTue Oct 11, 2022 8:37 am

timbutt2 wrote:That's the massive difference with Blackmagic and their wonderful UI and Menu! It feels like it was designed by camera operators and, the truth is, that it was.

Any lack of camera announcements at this time feels like a good sign for some new designs in the future. And, with new designs I'm completely happy with Blackmagic taking the time to get it right.


That's the point. But I think it's the ecosystem of BRAW and DaVinci too. It's just too easy to work with these files and it's super convenient. In the beginning I was really pissed that Apple did not implement BRAW into FCPX but that's not a problem anymore for me cause transcoding is so fast and editing get's even more simple with Resolve these days.

ricardo marty wrote:BMD can go AI for AF or maybe a lidar. The P4-6k market segment will dry up. The fx30 is good enough for most beginners and some not so beginners. That's the future. I'm stuck with braw, and because I don't want the added weight of an onboard recorder. But af is very tempting, especially for my getting older eyes.


The FX30 has it's benefits, that's true. But there are some major quirks when it comes to features. I really love the 6K resolution from my Pocket 6K and the FX30 has a 6K sensor too but no 6K files to work with internally. BRAW is an option but just with a fat crop applied to and that's just bs.

What I mostly like about a cam like the R5C is it's size and weight. I use the Pocket 6K mostly fro travel and run-and-gun shooting, so lightweight and handy sizes are pretty nice to have. If Blackmagic would release a new (maybe) boxed or cageless URSA (or a completely new line) where you can attach the viewfinder and some other stuff for a reasonable price...I would go for it instead of Canon. But in the meantime the tech inside the R5C is far far superior to what the Pocket has and even the URSA in case of image quality (better ISO performance).
Maybe we will get a Pocket with an URSA sensor which has an 8K limit but 120fps...

I keep my fingers crossed cause BM did A LOT right in the past 4 years but competition has overtaken the market in terms of price and features.
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Steve Fishwick

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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostTue Oct 11, 2022 9:49 am

timbutt2 wrote:The only time that AutoFocus would be handy is in situations that you're doing an interview or a teleprompter reading. And, that's currently where the Sony FX9 and FX6 are currently being asked for the most by clients and producers. I still get plenty of work with my URSA Mini because of the image quality. But the convenience of AF in those cameras for those documentaries and interviews is very apparent.


It must be remembered that despite massive inroads into the prosumer (and pro) cine markets, Sony is essentially of a broadcast background. The reason the FS7s and FX9s have been so popular is largely to do with their XAVC 10bit 4:2:2 codecs that comply with 50/100/200mbps, HD/UHD minimum EBU requirements and are considerably smaller and simpler for transcoding/post workflows, than Prores/raw codecs for huge documentary shooting ratios. It went largely unnoticed sadly that BMD, introduced similar codecs on the UBG2. Grant Petty has a broadcast engineering background and this arena remains very important for BMD.

The move to larger sensors and smaller bodies almost necessitates AF and IS, but it is my view these cameras are the wrong type for doc and run and gun. It should not be a problem on any camera to focus manually a setup, sit down interview but the run and gun is a different matter. I suppose everyone wants everything to look like fiction cinema these days. It is still my view that a proper ENG camera with very flexible fast B4s is still the best tool for this job. However, the documentary professional cameraperson is rarer every day now, and the size and complexity of a shoulder mount B4 lensed camera is too much for the PD self shooters, who mostly film this content these days. Again the smaller FX6/FS7s and even the FX9 are easier for them to handle and Sony are selling them by the shedload.

I would go so far, as to say, the FS7 and now the FX9, have been the defacto documentary cameras for long form broadcast TV, for a number of years, replacing the once common 2/3" ENG/EFP cameras many fold, and most jobs here in TV specify a familiarity with them, for those roles. DSLR and mirrorless are much less common, for such work.
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Michel Rabe

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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostTue Oct 11, 2022 2:26 pm

Braw + Davinci Resolve is unmatched in the industry.

I'd love BMD to extend their ecosystem with wireless video and a Lidar system. DJI's 3D Waveform for focus pullers is a f**** dream for any AC. See from 8:22 min



And that Frankenstein rigging of wireless video transmitters, which mostly still need power via dinosaur D-Tap, could be a thing of the past with a clever hardware solution.
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ricardo marty

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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostTue Oct 11, 2022 11:03 pm

I very much like the ronin 4d but not with the gimble just the lidar. wish thy have internal braw.

Ricardo Marty
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dondidnod

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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostWed Oct 12, 2022 2:37 am

Philipp Walz wrote:...the tech inside the R5C is far far superior to what the Pocket has and even the URSA in case of image quality (better ISO performance).

This was not the conclusion that this Canon R5C owner came to:

KarbonRodd wrote:

"...Last weekend I was running the R5C on a tripod in 105 degree weather all day off of a 98WH V mount and had the CF Express give me heat warnings multiple times during the day, but it never did give up on me. Periodically I was storing the cameras in air conditioned rooms to avoid overheating, and I popped the card slot and let the CF Express hang out of the camera to cool it faster. A few times per shooting day I have to pop the dummy battery out and reinstall it to get it to clear an error and power back on (using Kondor Blue dummy to D tap). Image is good but nothing incredible, and no C log 2 (like the C70). Nice option if you need a photo solution interchangeably, or crazy resolutions and frame rates and good low light ISO (C70s only real weak spot).

...R5C I sort of regret buying sometimes, I expected a lot for the price tag it bears and the meager dynamic range (comparitively) is really my biggest gripe. I have an URSA and 6K Pro I use for commercial and music video work also and I was hoping the R5C would at least match the 6K Pro image, but I really don't think it does. Sad for a $5000 camera setup to lose out to a $2500 camera setup with no real redeeming qualities outside of being a monster photo shooter too. Not really a big enough value for me as a 95% video shooter!"

r/weddingvideography Canon C70 vs R5 C for weddings

https://www.reddit.com/r/weddingvideogr ... _weddings/
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Uli Plank

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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostWed Oct 12, 2022 4:56 am

I have tested the R6 and the Sony A7IV against each other. Both of these cameras have one big advantage over BM's cameras: excellent autofocus with tracking. Great for documentary, and what else is a wedding shoot?

Stabilisation is very good too, but now that we have gyro data stabilisation in DR, not such a huge thing in favour of them. Well, IBIS is not loosing sensor area, but it's more efficient for photography than filming.

Image quality is close in these, I don't see a huge difference. But, and that's a big BUT, the Sony can be set by a menu entry to let it get hotter without switching off. I tested both of them with the monitor open to the side for better cooling under the same conditions. The Canon switched off several times, the Sony didn't. And last summer was definitely hot in Germany. The only disadvantage to that setting was a bit more image noise, but nothing you can't handle.

What's a camera worth that can't run stable for extended times in doc? You can't ask the priest to repeat the ceremony, can you?
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jerrygladh

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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostWed Oct 12, 2022 7:08 am

As a long time BM user with a lot of EF-glass I decided to complement with Canon some years ago.
Mostly for the excellent AF but also for the much better in camera audio.
For fast and easy set up, docu style, I always go Canon.
For more controlled situations I go BM.
Both brands give me wonderful footage.
Isn't it just choosing the right tool for the specific job?

Jerry
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Ellory Yu

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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostWed Oct 12, 2022 7:12 am

jerrygladh wrote:Isn't it just choosing the right tool for the specific job?

This!
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