Samsung T7 works after update?

The place for questions about shooting with Blackmagic Cameras.
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

kambor

  • Posts: 10
  • Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2022 3:39 pm
  • Real Name: Jorge Rubiales

Samsung T7 works after update?

PostSun Jul 31, 2022 11:38 am

Hi friends, first post here. I've noticed recently on youtube some reports of people that have tested the T7 samsung ssd after the 7.9 update stating that the drive now works perfectly on the BMPCC 4k in every recording quality. But still, it's not in the approved media list, so I don't know if the videos are total BS, just anecdotal data, or what.

I ask because Samsung discontinued the 1 and 2Tb T5's, and who knows what their plans are for the 500Gb disks. I currently use T5, in my region there's not much of an offer, so the alternative pretty much would be Sandisk extreme ssd or jump right to CFast.

Anyone has information about any of this? I'm aware of the buffer issue on the T7, but maybe 7.9 changed the way the BMPCC writes to disk to make it more efficient? Thanks for the wonderful community.
Offline

kambor

  • Posts: 10
  • Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2022 3:39 pm
  • Real Name: Jorge Rubiales

Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostFri Aug 05, 2022 9:10 am

Anyone with a T7 and last firmware that can make a quick test?
Offline

John Brawley

  • Posts: 3754
  • Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:57 am
  • Location: Los Angeles California

Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostFri Aug 05, 2022 1:38 pm

It’s not on the BMD list. It’s specifically not on the list, not because they haven’t tested it, but because it failed to qualify.

Many people have ignored that and used it anyway. Some have been able to. Some have had constant problems.

JB
John Brawley ACS
Cinematographer
Currently - Los Angeles
Offline

rNeil H

  • Posts: 340
  • Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:43 pm
  • Real Name: R. Neil Haugen

Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostFri Aug 05, 2022 2:30 pm

The T7 has a lesser buffer size. It's fast only as long as your total sustained load isn't that big.

You might get by fine shooting heavily compressed smaller file sizes. Or ... might not.

A famous movie quote seems to fit here ...

"Are you feeling lucky today, punk?"

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk
Offline

kambor

  • Posts: 10
  • Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2022 3:39 pm
  • Real Name: Jorge Rubiales

Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostFri Aug 05, 2022 3:03 pm

Oh, I thought maybe BMD had found a way. There was a youtuber recently testing the T7 4k 8:1 but it was only a few seconds, which makes sense.

Thank you all by your response, I'll keep hoarding surviving T5s then :lol:
Offline
User avatar

Johannes Jonsson

  • Posts: 280
  • Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 2:35 pm
  • Location: Iceland

Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostSat Aug 06, 2022 2:45 am

rNeil H wrote:The T7 has a lesser buffer size. It's fast only as long as your total sustained load isn't that big.

You might get by fine shooting heavily compressed smaller file sizes. Or ... might not.

A famous movie quote seems to fit here ...

"Are you feeling lucky today, punk?"

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk


The problem wit T7 is that it has a buffer, T7 uses that buffer to get its high speed and that only works for writing sequential files like for example photos but drops below the speed of T5 when the buffer fills up after few frames when writing non sequential files like videos.
T5 does not have buffer but that disk has higher speed then on T7 after T7 has filled the buffer.
Johannes
Offline

nicowieditz

  • Posts: 45
  • Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2021 3:27 am
  • Real Name: Nico Wieditz

Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostSat Aug 06, 2022 10:55 am

I am using my T7 on the Pocket 6k and the Ursa 12k without any issues in high quality parameters. Firmware 7.9 had no influence because I worked with my T7 before upgrading to 7.9 on my 6k.
Cameras: BM Ursa Mini Pro 12k, BMPCC 6k
Computers: MacPro 7.1 128 GB VRAM
Offline

John Brawley

  • Posts: 3754
  • Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:57 am
  • Location: Los Angeles California

Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostMon Aug 08, 2022 3:06 pm

Using a T7 is like driving on a temp spare tyre.

JB
John Brawley ACS
Cinematographer
Currently - Los Angeles
Offline

nicowieditz

  • Posts: 45
  • Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2021 3:27 am
  • Real Name: Nico Wieditz

Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostMon Aug 08, 2022 4:08 pm

I do all my documentary stuff with the T7 and I had no drop outs after recording 90 min at 8k 60 or 45 min in 12k 50. If it is a spare tyre, then it is a great spare tyre. :)

Here is a short video to demonstrate it for 01:20 min in 12k50 at comp 8:1 - as expected no issues.

Cameras: BM Ursa Mini Pro 12k, BMPCC 6k
Computers: MacPro 7.1 128 GB VRAM
Offline

kambor

  • Posts: 10
  • Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2022 3:39 pm
  • Real Name: Jorge Rubiales

Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostTue Aug 09, 2022 10:17 pm

That's what I mean, according to BM calculations you're recording 753Mb/s there, the pocket shouldn't have a problem.

Maybe Samsung changed the drives along the way, after they were tested by BM? I mean, there's proof out there of people working and it doesn't appear to fail, but if it hasn't changed it doesn't make sense to me.
Offline

nicowieditz

  • Posts: 45
  • Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2021 3:27 am
  • Real Name: Nico Wieditz

Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostTue Aug 09, 2022 10:25 pm

kambor wrote:That's what I mean, according to BM calculations you're recording 753Mb/s there, the pocket shouldn't have a problem.

Maybe Samsung changed the drives along the way, after they were tested by BM? I mean, there's proof out there of people working and it doesn't appear to fail, but if it hasn't changed it doesn't make sense to me.


I do not know if something changed. I cannot use the T5 because I get drop outs on the Pocket 6k and of course on the 12k, too. I bought the T7 6 months ago, did not format the disc since then and have no issues since I bought it.

IMO it could not has something to do with the firmware of the pockets. So, what is different from my T7 to your T7?

Can you show a similar short video how the issue is appearing? Did you change the cable from the disc to the camera?

On my 12k I changed my USB-C cable from BMD the 3rd time. Now since I am using Thunderbolt cables I have no more issues.
Cameras: BM Ursa Mini Pro 12k, BMPCC 6k
Computers: MacPro 7.1 128 GB VRAM
Offline

kambor

  • Posts: 10
  • Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2022 3:39 pm
  • Real Name: Jorge Rubiales

Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostWed Aug 10, 2022 12:25 am

First, thanks for your video!

I want to clarify, I don't own a T7, I currently managed to source two 500Gb T5, but since they're being discontinued I need an alternative, and stumbled across this T7 thing. T5 works fine on the 4K, and actually it should work for the Ursa too, but the bottleneck is the USB 3.1 gen 1 protocol for the highest quality (Q0) when it jumps in bitrate.

Maybe the T7 works fine in constant bitrate modes, but drops on variable bitrate?
Offline

nicowieditz

  • Posts: 45
  • Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2021 3:27 am
  • Real Name: Nico Wieditz

Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostWed Aug 10, 2022 12:46 am

Please give me an example how do you know that the T7 will produce drops? What can I test for you that I can assure you using the T7 is without issues or how can I produce your issues?

Please tell me.
Cameras: BM Ursa Mini Pro 12k, BMPCC 6k
Computers: MacPro 7.1 128 GB VRAM
Offline

nicowieditz

  • Posts: 45
  • Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2021 3:27 am
  • Real Name: Nico Wieditz

Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostWed Aug 10, 2022 12:53 am

Few seconds ago I tested the T7 with 12k 50 @Q0 and got no issues and no drops. I stopped again the recording after 1:20 min. I tested on my Pocket 6k 50 off speed in full resolution @Q0 and got again no issues and no drops. The T7 works perfectly here, too. I stopped recording after 03:10 min.

What should I do on my Pocket to create drops? Please tell me.
Cameras: BM Ursa Mini Pro 12k, BMPCC 6k
Computers: MacPro 7.1 128 GB VRAM
Offline

John Brawley

  • Posts: 3754
  • Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:57 am
  • Location: Los Angeles California

Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostWed Aug 10, 2022 1:01 am

To max out the Q0 data rate, put your widest lens on and shoot something with a lot of fine detail in focus.

Trees with leaves for example.

Q data rates spike with fine detail that is in focus, NOT with movement as many think.

JB
John Brawley ACS
Cinematographer
Currently - Los Angeles
Offline

nicowieditz

  • Posts: 45
  • Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2021 3:27 am
  • Real Name: Nico Wieditz

Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostWed Aug 10, 2022 1:22 am

Ok, I wait until the night is over and take a focus on trees on my house and see how it works. Thanks for now.
Cameras: BM Ursa Mini Pro 12k, BMPCC 6k
Computers: MacPro 7.1 128 GB VRAM
Offline

John Brawley

  • Posts: 3754
  • Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:57 am
  • Location: Los Angeles California

Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostWed Aug 10, 2022 1:34 am

Don’t forget to shoot a deep stop like F8

JB
John Brawley ACS
Cinematographer
Currently - Los Angeles
Offline

nicowieditz

  • Posts: 45
  • Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2021 3:27 am
  • Real Name: Nico Wieditz

Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostWed Aug 10, 2022 6:21 am

John Brawley wrote:Don’t forget to shoot a deep stop like F8

JB



Thanks John for your instructions. I hope a test on my Pocket is not necessary.

OK. 3 hours Done. 2:4.1 / Q0 / T8 / SSD: T7 2GB Lens: Xeen CF 24mm

12k 75 @Q0 T8 stopped after 3 seconds
12k 50 @Q0 T8 stopped after 3 seconds
12k 40 @Q0 T8 stopped after 3:43 min
12k 30 @Q0 T8 stopped after 28:11 min (good value)

8k 160 @Q0 T8 stopped after 7 seconds
8k 120 @Q0 T8 stopped after 15 seconds
8k 60 @Q0 T8 stopped after 01:25 min
8k 50 @Q0 T8 stopped after 11:16 min
8k 30 @Q0 T8 works without drop after 33 min

U2.SSD: Samsung 7,68 TB with SSD Recorder (I stopped recording after 15 min)

12k 75 @Q0 T8 stopped after 2:58 min (a very good value)
12k 50 @Q0 T8 stopped after 3:21 min
12k 40 @Q0 T8 no stop after 15 min
12k 30 @Q0 T8 no stop after 15 min

8k 160 @Q0 T8 stopped after 07:52 min
8k 160 @Q5 T8 no stop ( Sorry, I had to do this :) )
8k 120 @Q0 T8 stopped after 11:05 min
8k 60 @Q0 T8 no stop
8k 50 @Q0 T8 no stop
8k 30 @Q0 T8 no stop


Final Thoughts: After almost 3 hours testing the T7 does a very good job. My Sandisk 4TB or my old T5 1TB did not reach any of these values on my 12k. The U2. SSD's reach a higher frame rate without drops, of course they are faster than the T7.

But at the end I was very happy to see that the U2 SSD passed the test in 8k 160 @Q5, what is still a very good quality.

I do not see serious issues on the T7 comparable to a Sandisk 4TB or a T5 1TB
Cameras: BM Ursa Mini Pro 12k, BMPCC 6k
Computers: MacPro 7.1 128 GB VRAM
Offline

John Brawley

  • Posts: 3754
  • Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:57 am
  • Location: Los Angeles California

Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostWed Aug 10, 2022 10:48 am

24mm isn’t really that wide.

I’ve had media max headroom even on CFAST using 15mm or 12mm lenses.

It’s one of the variables that is the reason you can get so many different results.

JB
John Brawley ACS
Cinematographer
Currently - Los Angeles
Offline

kambor

  • Posts: 10
  • Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2022 3:39 pm
  • Real Name: Jorge Rubiales

Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostWed Aug 10, 2022 2:02 pm

Wow, that's very interesting! Thank you for taking the time to test this. At least now we have a reference of settings we can or cannot use with this drive. If money is no object sure, CFast sounds like a lot of fun really. But for more budget concerned people (like me, hehe) these tests are invaluable.

Even using CFast, imagine if you're recording on location and your card goes south, It would be a lot easier to source a T7 if you know how to avoid the troublesome configs.
Offline
User avatar

rick.lang

  • Posts: 15732
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:41 pm
  • Location: Victoria BC Canada

Samsung T7 works after update?

PostWed Aug 10, 2022 5:15 pm

What I like about the Wise Advanced products is that they test their media with their own Blackmagic cameras and they also rely on BMD Support’s testing to confirm their efficacy for motion picture purposes in general. I think Angelbird also tests using cameras. Wise also ensures their data controller is designed with the same block size as BMD uses writing their video data. And they publish read and write speeds.

Some manufacturers that are pursuing the fastest possible cards may only publish maximum burst read speed using various block sizes that may be more applicable to personal computing in general and are not tested for sustained media speeds used in cameras. They may also use buffers that offer greatly accelerated performance, but cannot sustain those speeds when the buffer is full. They may be designed without provisioning areas so that errors in blocks reduce the available storage over time. A computer user’s experience when there is a problem may not be very impactful if the action is manually initiated and can simply be repeated. Contrast that with use in a cinema camera where errors can be much more consequential and costly.

It’s understandable for a consumer to select the lower cost item when the specs appear to be comparable. But when it comes to media and camera equipment, rely more on recommendations from other users than simply price. This isn’t just true for media but a great many items where better performance or longevity or otherwise better fit for purpose will usually cost more but be economical in the long run.

“What should I buy?” The answer is often another question: “What is your budget?” In other words, buy the best you can comfortably manage over time.
Rick Lang
Offline

mrogelioga

  • Posts: 6
  • Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2022 8:55 am
  • Real Name: MANUEL ROGELIO GORDO

Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostThu Aug 18, 2022 10:39 pm

hy to all, and thanks for your test! Recently I adquired 2 x Ursa broadcast G2 and in 2 week we begin the shoot of a history documentary. I haven't updated to the new firmware yet.
I pretend film in 6K RAW constant bitrate 8:1 in 25 and 50 fps. This afternoom I made a test with my Samsung T7 1TB and continuous recording. So I setuped the camera the counter recording indicated 1 hour and 25 minutes with ssd 1 tb but the recording stopped in 68 minutes and one exclamation mark appear, but after I pushed the record button and continued the shooting. I had a lens Sigma 18-35. Any suggest to my next documentary? I must be calm with 4 Samsung shield SSD 1Tb? Thanks
Offline

Uli Plank

  • Posts: 15760
  • Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:48 am
  • Location: Germany and Indonesia

Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostSat Aug 20, 2022 7:18 am

If you want reliability, don't use the T7.
The software may be free, but the hardware needed for smooth performance is not.

Resolve Studio 18.1, MacOS 12.6.1
MacBook M1 Pro, 16 GPU cores, 32 GB RAM
and
iMac 2017, Radeon 580, 32 GB RAM
Speed Editor
Offline

mrogelioga

  • Posts: 6
  • Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2022 8:55 am
  • Real Name: MANUEL ROGELIO GORDO

Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostSat Aug 20, 2022 11:51 am

so, which is your suggest? Based on your experience, what kind of disc should I use? thanks
Offline
User avatar

robin0112358

  • Posts: 54
  • Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:13 pm
  • Location: Ireland
  • Real Name: Robin Parmar

Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostMon Aug 29, 2022 8:24 pm

I echo that question.

Last year, when Samsung T5 drives were available, they were even on sale here in Ireland. So I could heartily recommend a 500GB model as a cheap way into the game, for my undergrad students.

This year there are no T5 drives available, only the T7, advertised everywhere as being an improvement. Though as we know from this forum, they're not optimised for video throughput due to cache changes.

Since students will not be recording at high bit rates, I think that I am going to have to recommend the T7. The few individuals who grow out of this drive will still find a use as utility (backup or transfer).

Though I would be more at ease recommending a better drive from the get-go, it's unlikely any such will be available for purchase. Such is the dilemma.
Robin Parmar
robinparmar.com | theatreofnoise.com | stolenmirror.com
Offline

Uli Plank

  • Posts: 15760
  • Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:48 am
  • Location: Germany and Indonesia

Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostMon Aug 29, 2022 8:47 pm

The T5 is still offered here by Amazon.
The software may be free, but the hardware needed for smooth performance is not.

Resolve Studio 18.1, MacOS 12.6.1
MacBook M1 Pro, 16 GPU cores, 32 GB RAM
and
iMac 2017, Radeon 580, 32 GB RAM
Speed Editor
Offline

kambor

  • Posts: 10
  • Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2022 3:39 pm
  • Real Name: Jorge Rubiales

Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostMon Aug 29, 2022 11:16 pm

Yes, T5 500Gb seems like it's not been discontinued YET. But it looks like it will be at some point.
Offline

VMFXBV

  • Posts: 196
  • Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2022 8:41 pm
  • Real Name: Andrew I. Veli

Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostTue Aug 30, 2022 10:45 pm

I wouldn't touch the T7 or T5 with a ten foot pole.
These use bottom of the barrel low quality TLC nand thats meant for the consumer market that won't notice the drops in speed while writing (all NAND has good read speeds) while being quite expensive for what they offer.

Instead of buying these consumer oriented drives, we use StarTech USB3 enclosures with Samsung 850 Pro (or 860 Pro) drives on both Ursa 4.6K and Pocket 4K cameras.

Via USB3 directly on Pocket and via Esata to CFAST adapter on Ursa (plus a phone usb battery for powering up the enclosure - on Pocket the enclosure is powered via the USB port).

The 850 and 860 Pro use 2bit MLC NAND which is the ideal NAND (besides the more expensive SLC) to have in a ssd.

Unfortunately Samsung is heading towards the cost saving at all costs with even with their newer nvme drives. 980Pro NVME switched from MLC to TLC because its "good enough".
AMD Ryzen 5800X
AMD Radeon 6800XT
Ursa Mini 4.6K
Pocket 4K
Offline
User avatar

Milen Mladenov

  • Posts: 117
  • Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:14 am

Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostSun Oct 02, 2022 2:04 pm

VMFXBV wrote:I wouldn't touch the T7 or T5 with a ten foot pole.
These use bottom of the barrel low quality TLC nand thats meant for the consumer market that won't notice the drops in speed while writing (all NAND has good read speeds) while being quite expensive for what they offer.

Instead of buying these consumer oriented drives, we use StarTech USB3 enclosures with Samsung 850 Pro (or 860 Pro) drives on both Ursa 4.6K and Pocket 4K cameras.

Via USB3 directly on Pocket and via Esata to CFAST adapter on Ursa (plus a phone usb battery for powering up the enclosure - on Pocket the enclosure is powered via the USB port).

The 850 and 860 Pro use 2bit MLC NAND which is the ideal NAND (besides the more expensive SLC) to have in a ssd.

Unfortunately Samsung is heading towards the cost saving at all costs with even with their newer nvme drives. 980Pro NVME switched from MLC to TLC because its "good enough".


I have used multiple T5's with multiple Pocket 4K cameras for prolonged shoots for a couple of years now. Haven't had any problems.
Offline

VMFXBV

  • Posts: 196
  • Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2022 8:41 pm
  • Real Name: Andrew I. Veli

Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostSun Oct 02, 2022 3:34 pm

Milen Mladenov wrote:
I have used multiple T5's with multiple Pocket 4K cameras for prolonged shoots for a couple of years now. Haven't had any problems.


Good for you, I wouldn't trust them.
850/860Pro > Evo > T5 > T7. In that order. T7 seems to be the worst of the bunch.
AMD Ryzen 5800X
AMD Radeon 6800XT
Ursa Mini 4.6K
Pocket 4K
Offline
User avatar

Milen Mladenov

  • Posts: 117
  • Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:14 am

Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostMon Oct 03, 2022 11:09 am

VMFXBV wrote:
Milen Mladenov wrote:
I have used multiple T5's with multiple Pocket 4K cameras for prolonged shoots for a couple of years now. Haven't had any problems.


Good for you, I wouldn't trust them.
850/860Pro > Evo > T5 > T7. In that order. T7 seems to be the worst of the bunch.


But based on what? I shoot with these drives every week for years now. I understand your insights in general but they are not really practical. T5 is an approved media and there are a lot of rigs and accessories made specifically for that drive (Tilta, SmallRig, etc.) Putting an 850/860 Pro or Evo on a Pocket sends you into the shittyrigs realm almost for sure. I think that the most important thing is to have your attached drive and cables secured properly. I have had drop frames from CFast cards, though.

Cheers,
Milen
Offline

Ellory Yu

  • Posts: 3486
  • Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:25 pm

Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostMon Oct 03, 2022 11:21 am

Milen Mladenov wrote:
VMFXBV wrote:
Milen Mladenov wrote:
I have used multiple T5's with multiple Pocket 4K cameras for prolonged shoots for a couple of years now. Haven't had any problems.


Good for you, I wouldn't trust them.
850/860Pro > Evo > T5 > T7. In that order. T7 seems to be the worst of the bunch.


But based on what? I shoot with these drives every week for years now. I understand your insights in general but they are not really practical. T5 is an approved media and there are a lot of rigs and accessories made specifically for that drive (Tilta, SmallRig, etc.) Putting an 850/860 Pro or Evo on a Pocket sends you into the shittyrigs realm almost for sure. I think that the most important thing is to have your attached drive and cables secured properly. I have had drop frames from CFast cards, though.

Cheers,
Milen

I somewhat agree to this response. These drives are not suitable at high resolution in BRAW 3:1 or Q0 or Prores HQ therefore those who attempts to use them at these settings will think of them to be the worst of the bunch. On the contrary, recording on them with higher compression codecs and/or lower resolutions will just be fine. Also, secure your cables and use high quality cables will ensure you’ll encounter less issues writing out to this drives.
URSA Mini Pro 4.6K G2, Blackmagic Design Pocket Cinema Camera 6K, Panasonic GH5
PC Workstation Core I7 64Gb, 2 x AMD R9 390X 8Gb, Blackmagic Design DeckLink 4K Mini Monitor, Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, Resolve Studio 18, BM Micro Panel & Speed Editor
Offline

VMFXBV

  • Posts: 196
  • Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2022 8:41 pm
  • Real Name: Andrew I. Veli

Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostMon Oct 03, 2022 11:54 am

Milen Mladenov wrote:
But based on what? I shoot with these drives every week for years now. I understand your insights in general but they are not really practical. T5 is an approved media and there are a lot of rigs and accessories made specifically for that drive (Tilta, SmallRig, etc.) Putting an 850/860 Pro or Evo on a Pocket sends you into the shittyrigs realm almost for sure. I think that the most important thing is to have your attached drive and cables secured properly. I have had drop frames from CFast cards, though.

Cheers,
Milen


Based on what I wrote a couple of posts above. Quality of NAND used in them.
Putting a 850 in an enclosure is the same as a T5. Maybe even better since the enclosure end has a firmer usb connection.

You only need the extra battery on an Ursa since the Ursa can't power the external SSD. Older Ursa that is, maybe the G2/12K can power SSDs via USB.
AMD Ryzen 5800X
AMD Radeon 6800XT
Ursa Mini 4.6K
Pocket 4K
Offline
User avatar

Milen Mladenov

  • Posts: 117
  • Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:14 am

Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostMon Oct 03, 2022 2:23 pm

VMFXBV wrote:
Milen Mladenov wrote:
But based on what? I shoot with these drives every week for years now. I understand your insights in general but they are not really practical. T5 is an approved media and there are a lot of rigs and accessories made specifically for that drive (Tilta, SmallRig, etc.) Putting an 850/860 Pro or Evo on a Pocket sends you into the shittyrigs realm almost for sure. I think that the most important thing is to have your attached drive and cables secured properly. I have had drop frames from CFast cards, though.

Cheers,
Milen


Based on what I wrote a couple of posts above. Quality of NAND used in them.
Putting a 850 in an enclosure is the same as a T5. Maybe even better since the enclosure end has a firmer usb connection.

You only need the extra battery on an Ursa since the Ursa can't power the external SSD. Older Ursa that is, maybe the G2/12K can power SSDs via USB.


Nope putting an 850 into an enclosure is not the same as putting a T5, because you have rigs that are made specifically for this form factor. They secure the drive and cables and make the swapping of drives a quick, easy, and relatively safe operation. The 850 route sends you into the shittyrigs universe. Don't get me wrong I am a fan of it but I can't say it's always reliable. The thing that I am saying is that you may be right on the topic of the NAND but it doesn't matter if you have other parts of the rig that are not reliable or properly secured and if you are attaching DYI 850/60 or whatever. The bottom line is T5's work and they work just fine for most of the cases that you will need them to work for a budget camera like the pocket. This is proven from years and hundreds of hours shot on this drives by multiple people in this (let's call it baldly) Industry.

Cheers,
Milen
Offline

VMFXBV

  • Posts: 196
  • Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2022 8:41 pm
  • Real Name: Andrew I. Veli

Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostMon Oct 03, 2022 3:23 pm

Milen Mladenov wrote:The 850 route sends you into the shittyrigs universe.


Sounds like a you problem. Lets agree to disagree here and that's all.

I'm sorry if you think putting a ssd in an enclosure is not the same as a ssd in an enclosure (T5) :shock: just because some people make some rig for the T5...There are universal holders made by Smallrig (and I'm sure others)...

Milen Mladenov wrote: This is proven from years and hundreds of hours shot on this drives by multiple people in this (let's call it baldly) Industry.


Except the people on this forum where the T7/T5 doesn't work... it works...I would call this anecdotal evidence.
AMD Ryzen 5800X
AMD Radeon 6800XT
Ursa Mini 4.6K
Pocket 4K
Offline
User avatar

Milen Mladenov

  • Posts: 117
  • Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:14 am

Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostMon Oct 03, 2022 9:12 pm

VMFXBV wrote:
Milen Mladenov wrote:The 850 route sends you into the shittyrigs universe.


Sounds like a you problem. Lets agree to disagree here and that's all.

I'm sorry if you think putting a ssd in an enclosure is not the same as a ssd in an enclosure (T5) :shock: just because some people make some rig for the T5...There are universal holders made by Smallrig (and I'm sure others)...

Milen Mladenov wrote: This is proven from years and hundreds of hours shot on this drives by multiple people in this (let's call it baldly) Industry.


Except the people on this forum where the T7/T5 doesn't work... it works...I would call this anecdotal evidence.

Let's just make it clear that we are talking about T5 not T7. There is a big difference. I am not making any claims about the T7 because they would be based on guesses and some some stuff that I've read on the Internet. Regarding the T5 drives that weren't working on this forum as far as I remember it almost always turns out to be a faulty cable or a bad connection and not the drive itself. If there was a problem with the T5 it wouldn't be on the list of approved media. You don't like them, I understand and I get it but you are misleading people in the forum with claims that are not backed up by any real experience with this type of media.
Last edited by Milen Mladenov on Tue Oct 04, 2022 9:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
Offline

VMFXBV

  • Posts: 196
  • Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2022 8:41 pm
  • Real Name: Andrew I. Veli

Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostMon Oct 03, 2022 10:34 pm

Milen Mladenov wrote: You don't like them, I understand and I get it but you are misleading people in the forum with claims that are not backed up by any real experience with this type of media.


You don't seem to grasp the notion of anecdotal evidence... These consumer drives are not all built the same. Do you understand the notion of binning? All these consumer drives are binned to the lowest common denominator. Just because you got an ok drive for shooting video doesn't mean others have.

Milen Mladenov wrote: you are misleading people in the forum with claims that are not backed up by any real experience with this type of media.


850Pro/860Pro > T5 is a fact. From all aspects, including speed and endurace. And I've shared what I use.
What claims did I make? Where's the misleading? Sounds like you're angry at someone and are projecting a lot.
AMD Ryzen 5800X
AMD Radeon 6800XT
Ursa Mini 4.6K
Pocket 4K
Offline

wemrick1

  • Posts: 396
  • Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2021 12:47 pm
  • Location: United States
  • Real Name: Walter Emrick

Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostMon Oct 03, 2022 11:12 pm

On my two BMPCC 4k's, BMPCC 6kP, and Ursa Mini Broadcast G2 I record b-raw at 8:1 constant bitrate and have never had a hick-up using T5 drives. I've pushed a lot of data through these drives.
Offline
User avatar

Milen Mladenov

  • Posts: 117
  • Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:14 am

Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostTue Oct 04, 2022 5:54 am

VMFXBV wrote:
Milen Mladenov wrote: You don't like them, I understand and I get it but you are misleading people in the forum with claims that are not backed up by any real experience with this type of media.


You don't seem to grasp the notion of anecdotal evidence... These consumer drives are not all built the same. Do you understand the notion of binning? All these consumer drives are binned to the lowest common denominator. Just because you got an ok drive for shooting video doesn't mean others have.

Milen Mladenov wrote: you are misleading people in the forum with claims that are not backed up by any real experience with this type of media.


850Pro/860Pro > T5 is a fact. From all aspects, including speed and endurace. And I've shared what I use.
What claims did I make? Where's the misleading? Sounds like you're angry at someone and are projecting a lot.


Wow, wow, hold your horses, bro! I was just trying to shed some light and prevent someone who is just starting to be misled that the T5 is not a viable option. You say that I can't seem to grasp the notion of anecdotal evidence but the T5 is not approved by me, it's approved by BMD. Is their evidence anecdotal as well? On the other hand, you said that you wouldn't touch the T5 so that means you have no real experience with this drive and your evidence is not anecdotal but simply not existent :D

Cheers,
Milen
Offline

VMFXBV

  • Posts: 196
  • Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2022 8:41 pm
  • Real Name: Andrew I. Veli

Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostTue Oct 04, 2022 7:32 am

Milen Mladenov wrote:
Wow, wow, hold your horses, bro! I was just trying to shed some light and prevent someone who is just starting to be misled that the T5 is not a viable option.


Wow, wow, wow and you still repeat this. Even in this post. Why are you so angry? Again, I keep repeating myself, where's the mislead here, "bro"?

Milen Mladenov wrote: T5 is not approved by me, it's approved by BMD. Is their evidence anecdotal as well?


And yet its not approved for every shooting mode. And not even all the models.

Milen Mladenov wrote:On the other hand, you said that you wouldn't touch the T5 so that means you have no real experience with this drive and your evidence is not anecdotal but simply not existent :D


Again you're projecting a lot here. What makes you think I haven't tried them, "bro"?. They suck. For my needs. End of story. I buy stuff that works on both my Ursa and Pocket / BMPC4K. I've shared what I use as an alternative to the T7/T5.

Why can't you accept this and move on. People can make up their own minds on what to use.
AMD Ryzen 5800X
AMD Radeon 6800XT
Ursa Mini 4.6K
Pocket 4K
Offline

wemrick1

  • Posts: 396
  • Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2021 12:47 pm
  • Location: United States
  • Real Name: Walter Emrick

Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostTue Oct 04, 2022 12:11 pm

Wow, wow, hold your horses, bro! I was just trying to shed some light and prevent someone who is just starting to be misled that the T5 is not a viable option. You say that I can't seem to grasp the notion of anecdotal evidence but the T5 is not approved by me, it's approved by BMD. Is their evidence anecdotal as well? On the other hand, you said that you wouldn't touch the T5 so that means you have no real experience with this drive and your evidence is not anecdotal but simply not existent :D


Again you're projecting a lot here. What makes you think I haven't tried them, "bro"?. They suck. For my needs. End of story. I buy stuff that works on both my Ursa and Pocket / BMPC4K. I've shared what I use as an alternative to the T7/T5.

Why can't you accept this and move on. People can make up their own minds on what to use.

Seriously guys? Come on now. Take it outside to facebook or someplace where people do this stuff.
Offline

VMFXBV

  • Posts: 196
  • Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2022 8:41 pm
  • Real Name: Andrew I. Veli

Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostTue Oct 04, 2022 1:00 pm

wemrick1 wrote:
Seriously guys? Come on now. Take it outside to facebook or someplace where people do this stuff.


Maybe some people should keep the discussion focused on the tech discussed here instead of something else.
AMD Ryzen 5800X
AMD Radeon 6800XT
Ursa Mini 4.6K
Pocket 4K
Offline

Ellory Yu

  • Posts: 3486
  • Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:25 pm

Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostTue Oct 04, 2022 3:50 pm

VMFXBV wrote:Maybe some people should keep the discussion focused on the tech discussed here instead of something else.

Yes... but you think this is technical or personal opinion?
VMFXBV wrote:... What makes you think I haven't tried them [referring to the T5], "bro"?. They suck. For my needs. End of story. I buy stuff that works on both my Ursa and Pocket / BMPC4K. I've shared what I use as an alternative to the T7/T5.

Why can't you accept this and move on. People can make up their own minds on what to use.

The T5, if you used them for what they are supposed to be approved by BMD and for the correct setup, should work just fine. I use them on both my URSA G2 and BMP6K and it's pretty good so far - works, no drop frame. It's not a CFast replacement so depending on the media relevancy and your experience with the media is what you should choose... not what someone says it is or it sucks. That's not technical at all. :lol:
URSA Mini Pro 4.6K G2, Blackmagic Design Pocket Cinema Camera 6K, Panasonic GH5
PC Workstation Core I7 64Gb, 2 x AMD R9 390X 8Gb, Blackmagic Design DeckLink 4K Mini Monitor, Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, Resolve Studio 18, BM Micro Panel & Speed Editor
Offline

VMFXBV

  • Posts: 196
  • Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2022 8:41 pm
  • Real Name: Andrew I. Veli

Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostTue Oct 04, 2022 4:38 pm

Ellory Yu wrote:Yes... but you think this is technical or personal opinion?


What?

Ellory Yu wrote:The T5, if you used them for what they are supposed to be approved by BMD and for the correct setup, should work just fine.


I never said otherwise.

Ellory Yu wrote:It's not a CFast replacement so depending on the media relevancy and your experience with the media is what you should choose... not what someone says it is or it sucks.


Again, what?
AMD Ryzen 5800X
AMD Radeon 6800XT
Ursa Mini 4.6K
Pocket 4K
Offline

Ellory Yu

  • Posts: 3486
  • Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:25 pm

Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostTue Oct 04, 2022 7:32 pm

Wow, I'm not sure if this guy is not understanding or just trolling now. I've said enough and now out of this conversation. Starting to be something that's for FB fans (which is not me) and the conversation should be there. Cheers.
URSA Mini Pro 4.6K G2, Blackmagic Design Pocket Cinema Camera 6K, Panasonic GH5
PC Workstation Core I7 64Gb, 2 x AMD R9 390X 8Gb, Blackmagic Design DeckLink 4K Mini Monitor, Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, Resolve Studio 18, BM Micro Panel & Speed Editor
Offline

VMFXBV

  • Posts: 196
  • Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2022 8:41 pm
  • Real Name: Andrew I. Veli

Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostTue Oct 04, 2022 7:35 pm

Ellory Yu wrote:Wow, I'm not sure if this guy is not understanding or just trolling now. I'm out of this conversation. Starting to be something that's for FB fans (which is not me) and the conversation should be there. Cheers.


I'm pretty sure you're the one not understanding. Maybe read through my posts and see who's trolling here. I've made my posts extremely clear.

Yours and that "bro" guy's replies to my posts are borderline hallucinating and I'm the FB troll here?

eg:
The 850 route sends you into the shittyrigs universe.

trying to shed some light and prevent someone who is just starting to be misled
AMD Ryzen 5800X
AMD Radeon 6800XT
Ursa Mini 4.6K
Pocket 4K
Offline
User avatar

carlomacchiavello

  • Posts: 2045
  • Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2012 6:04 pm
  • Location: italy

Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostMon Oct 10, 2022 10:19 am

i think we miss the point.
bmd did a approved list of support to record at XX quality or datarate.
Someone decide to do in different way, it's ok, everyone can decide to do what i think is better for him.
T7 is not approved for tech and stress test reason, it's ok
T7 work fine for someone in sometime environment, it's ok, it's his risk and his decision.

Bmd did a good service to told us what support are approved to work everytime at that maximum quality/FPS for that support, it's not a joke, not all brand do that.
Panasonic never did this, when i ask for approved sd for gh5 recording at maximum quality i saw a bouncing email between different service support people, but i never reiceved an answer.

Do you prefer to use different disk, different enclosure? good, me too i use for ursa g1 different solution, but when i need reability on some complex work i had also Cfast to record without risk.

i think some people do shooting that can do again, then they can risk.
Other people like me that i often do documentary shooting cannot miss a shot, and i prefer to be sure that support is stable.
I develop my rig, with my 3d printer to avoid some commercial rig be cause i thought was too cumbersome or not enough stable connection, but matter of taste :-D
Offline

VMFXBV

  • Posts: 196
  • Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2022 8:41 pm
  • Real Name: Andrew I. Veli

Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostMon Oct 10, 2022 11:50 am

carlomacchiavello wrote:I develop my rig, with my 3d printer to avoid some commercial rig be cause i thought was too cumbersome or not enough stable connection, but matter of taste :-D


Please stop posting logical thought out answers. You'll be branded as a facebook troll. How "dare" you use some other solution? Especially one that you built yourself. It goes straight into the shityrigs universe.

Sarcasm aside,

The reason why Panasonic didn't give you a straight answer is because not all consumer cards are built the same. Take the V30 cards from Sandisk for example. They put up those big numbers on them but the only one that matters is the V30 one since its guaranteed to be able to sustain 30MB/s continuous recording. Everything else is UP TO.

Which means, depending on binning, some cards will reach max speed, others will struggle...Same with the T5/T7 and so on. Unless BM did a huge stress test involving a very very large sample of T5s I would also take those claims with a grain of salt. But that's just me and like you and I said above, everyone can make whatever decisions they want.

I personally (with emphasis on this) wouldn't buy a 150TBW warranty drive for video shooting. I'd rather take the 4800TBW my 860Pro offers. And the enclosure part is literally the same. A sata to usb interface with a cable... Rigging this to a camera is a non issue since everyone offers cages and such. And like you, you can build your own.
AMD Ryzen 5800X
AMD Radeon 6800XT
Ursa Mini 4.6K
Pocket 4K
Offline

Ziffred

  • Posts: 1
  • Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2022 12:33 pm
  • Real Name: Patrice THEPIN

Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostTue Oct 11, 2022 12:34 pm

Samsung T7 Shield is now approved by BM :)
Offline
User avatar

Mark Foster

  • Posts: 1903
  • Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:59 am
  • Location: austria - no kangaroos +g*

Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostTue Oct 11, 2022 8:47 pm

today BMD has published the new list of supported and tested media.

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/support/faq/59026

the T7 now appears here, but only the new "shield" variant.
all others are not supported (and will not be due to the structure).


.
cMP 5.1 2x3,46/96GB/2x2TB SSD/4x4TB/7101A 4x2TB 970evo+/HP1344/BMD4k/RadeonVII
macOS 11.7.1
BMPCC 6k pro (7.9.1)
meike s35 cine 25mm, 35mm, 50mm, 75mm
resolve studio 18.1.1
mini panel
speed editor
desktop video 12.1
intensity pro 4k
atem extreme (8.6.1)
Next

Return to Cinematography

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Csaba Nagy and 20 guests