Huston? we could have a problem...

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carlomacchiavello

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Huston? we could have a problem...

PostTue Sep 20, 2022 6:58 pm

Pocket 6k, last firmware 7.9.1, cfast/ssd certified
i use bmd cameras from 2013, from cdng to prores and now with excellent braw from his born.
i often run out of battery, but never find corrupted files on cfast or ssd.

From 7.9 firmware i founded on same ssd (7 different ssd, 3 different brand sandisk, wise, samsung), and 2 cfast (same brand certified komputerbay) sometimes i had a corrupted files, braw that i cannot read directly from card, and if i put back card in camera, try to read in camera is not present in the list.

in 7.9 firmware we have more datas, gyro datas, this additional data seems change the way of recording.
gyro datas is a great addition, but... to me reability of recording is priority over every other feature.

do you want to test yourself? record a clip and remove battery during recording, every time corrupted.
Go back to 7.5 firmware, do the same, all clips are closed correctly also if i removed the battery.

the worst thing is that i never removed battery in the last months, I never meet the end of battery (since half of battery) but i have many corrupted clips during last shooting, i was lucky that are not important video, but... i miss reability of bmd.

yesterday i shoot some video for an adv on a Tibetan bridge on a mountain and cannot risk to not have right clip, i worked with firmware 7.5. i shooted 2.4 terabyte, all worked fine same setup hardware, and.. i stressed cameras on cable, on gimbal, i was hanging over the bridge to shoot a Drone like shooting and more..

to be precise.
- i format ssd and cfast ever in camera and ever before to shoot
- i had different strong usb cable for ssd (3 different brand approved)
- shooting 25p q5 6k
- camera in cage with lock for ssd and cable, also on tripods i found same problem
- cfast in use with these cameras from one years
- two different batch of pocket 6k give me same problem.
- stop on lost frame is on to avoid problem on support.

i hope bmd read, and if someother observe similar situation, give us feedback to found reason of this kind of problems to help developer to understand the reason and fight it.

Obviously I wrote also to support to have more info from them.
Last edited by carlomacchiavello on Wed Sep 21, 2022 6:24 am, edited 3 times in total.
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wemrick1

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Re: Huston? we could have a problem...

PostWed Sep 21, 2022 1:05 am

This is very sad to read. You have proven to me that you know your cameras well. I have not had the problem but I never shoot beyond 4k DCI. Maybe the extra bandwith at 6K is causing the problem? I truly hope BM will look into this. It is not a minor problem.
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Ellory Yu

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Re: Huston? we could have a problem...

PostWed Sep 21, 2022 5:15 am

I just don’t hot swap or remove batteries while the cameras are on. Just the way I do things.
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carlomacchiavello

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Huston? we could have a problem...

PostWed Sep 21, 2022 6:08 am

Ellory Yu wrote:I just don’t hot swap or remove batteries while the cameras are on. Just the way I do things.
Sure, me too I never do hot removing of battery
it’s a test to check stability of recording and camera if battery power dead, and be sure to replicate the problem.

I read in a post of JB that he do that to test what happened to a camera when something go wrong.

I think that camera now write in a different way files and a simple power variation (I ever use external power and I ever change battery before It reach last led, I never allow camera to stop for low battery) could cause some corruption.

The wrong thing is that braw is a sequential frame writing file, also if it had a tail of file corrupted I should can read file before stop of power.
Or in past I can do that, today not happened and I’m feared about it.
I think is gyro’s data addition that changed structure or way to recording data. But I wait answer from Blackmagic to have more infos.


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Ellory Yu

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Re: Huston? we could have a problem...

PostWed Sep 21, 2022 6:19 am

Oh yeah, it’s a good test and that alone. Thanks for sharing the info too.
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carlomacchiavello

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Re: Huston? we could have a problem...

PostTue Oct 04, 2022 3:49 pm

update : i sent procedure to replicate the problem for support and sent to develop team how to read file, be cause is not corrupted, is wrong closed and reader from camera and from software player seems not recognize the end and told like corrupted.
i will update if i will reiceve more infos.
in the mean time, i go back to previous stable firmware.
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Robert Niessner

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Re: Huston? we could have a problem...

PostTue Oct 04, 2022 5:24 pm

Thanks Carlo for keeping on this topic. Hope we'll hear back from BMD with an update and a fix.
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ShaheedMalik

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Re: Huston? we could have a problem...

PostTue Oct 04, 2022 5:26 pm

I had something similar happen. I turned the power off from the camera and removed the SSD too fast. I ended up with corrupted media. I ended up using chkdsk to repair it.

I think the camera is still writing long aftr we think it is. It didn't do that before.
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Uli Plank

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Re: Huston? we could have a problem...

PostWed Oct 05, 2022 5:20 am

Maybe gyro data?
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carlomacchiavello

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Re: Huston? we could have a problem...

PostWed Oct 05, 2022 6:41 am

Uli Plank wrote:Maybe gyro data?
It’s exactly my thought, if reader not see couple of frame and gyro data set file like corrupted, but it’s an intraframe codec, every frame is written sequentially, if last frame is damage use all before.


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Yannick Willox

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Re: Huston? we could have a problem...

PostWed Oct 05, 2022 6:42 am

I am getting stress now. In two months I have a big 10 cam video shoot, with also 4 rental P4K. The rental firm usually updates firmware to the latest version.

I'd better ask them to use 7.3, it is a big orchestral shoot, with ONLY 2x 2h takes. So, if I lose just one ...

IMO BMD should get their act together and make sure that media on their supported media list actually works.

This discussion around T5 being pro or not is a joke. The T5 is on the lists, in several sizes. It works perfectly on 7.3. If anyone here wants to advise me to do a 10cam shoot on BRAW on Cfast media, 10x 4h shoot on just 6h time, while it is impossible to rent 1TB cfast media, go ahead !

We need a new firmware that makes the cams reliable again a.s.a.p.

I don't give a damn about gyro data, all my cams are on sticks.
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rick.lang

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Huston? we could have a problem...

PostWed Oct 05, 2022 1:35 pm

Yannick, since you are renting 4 BMPCC4K, the rental firm may give you permission to downgrade to 7.3 firmware. If it was me, I’d want to do that myself to ensure the media and all camera settings are working well.

An alternative might be to buy Wise Portable SSD 1 TB drives that work well for me and are approved of course. I shot about 2.5 hours for each of three days last week on Wise SSD (BMPCC4K BRAW Q1) and CFast2 (UM4.6K lossless CDNG) without any issues on 7.9.1 and 4.8 respectively so my confidence is high.
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Ellory Yu

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Re: Huston? we could have a problem...

PostWed Oct 05, 2022 1:59 pm

This needs to be fixed for the pockets asap. BMD needs to release a new firmware or some kind of patch.
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Re: Huston? we could have a problem...

PostWed Oct 05, 2022 3:55 pm

rick.lang wrote:Yannick, since you are renting 4 BMPCC4K, the rental firm may give you permission to downgrade to 7.3 firmware. If it was me, I’d want to do that myself to ensure the media and all camera settings are working well.

An alternative might be to buy Wise Portable SSD 1 TB drives that work well for me and are approved of course. I shot about 2.5 hours for each of three days last week on Wise SSD (BMPCC4K BRAW Q1) and CFast2 (UM4.6K lossless CDNG) without any issues on 7.9.1 and 4.8 respectively so my confidence is high.


Well, first the Wise Portable SSD 1 TB is nowhere in stock here, and it costs 400 euro ! That means, for a 10 cam shoot, I need to invest 4000 euro, to make up for bad coding by BMD.
I already invested 1800 euro in my 13 T5 (500GB, 1TB and 2TB) drives. I shot about 80 TB of data in 2 years, without a glitch on the T5s. With the included cables ;-)

I will ask the rental company to downgrade, they should be willing to do so.

We should NOT have to bother with this kind of ****.

The cameras work with 7.3. The forum also has users who report the same **** on approved Cfast media. IMO it pops up less often, because the media is slower/less power hungry ?

2 things that BMD changed : apparantly they changed the power management (someone reported the cams are shutting down earlier when powered from an external battery) and gyro data is being written to the same file. IMO their lies an opportunity for this kind of bug.

The P4K on 7.3 can write hours long to a T5 and you can actually just pull either the battery or the disk and the file will play.
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rick.lang

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Re: Huston? we could have a problem...

PostWed Oct 05, 2022 6:05 pm

I hope you’re not angry with my previous suggestion, but I don’t have any disagreement with your intended approach. I really feel 7.3 was a wonderful upgrade (as long as you use Green medium coloured lines for focus assist).
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Robert Niessner

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Re: Huston? we could have a problem...

PostWed Oct 05, 2022 6:39 pm

Yannick, the German dealer Videodata does have the Wise SSDs in stock:
https://www.videodata.de/wise-portable-ssd-1-tb.html
Saying "Thx for help!" is not a crime.
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Re: Huston? we could have a problem...

PostWed Oct 05, 2022 7:58 pm

As someone who's heavily used both T5 and Wise, I'll list my experience.

The T5 even on the previous firmware could miss a frame and stop recording if 1) at top size BRAW and 2) bright sun and temperatures above 90*f.

Never had a problem otherwise.

The Wise cards just recorded without issues even with both above criteria.

Anymore I only use my T5s for studio shoots.

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Yannick Willox

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Re: Huston? we could have a problem...

PostThu Oct 06, 2022 8:35 am

rick.lang wrote:I hope you’re not angry with my previous suggestion, but I don’t have any disagreement with your intended approach. I really feel 7.3 was a wonderful upgrade (as long as you use Green medium coloured lines for focus assist).


No I am certainly not angry with you - help is always appreciated :-)

My point is : I have what is on the supported list, and I do not dare to use it in a highly critical situation with the new firmware.

I know I can spend 10K on Cfast 1 TB media. I know I can still lose a complete shot for a complete livetake using the cfast media, because the bug is still there.

So, I do not want to spend 10K just to reduce the risk, for something BMD should have fixed weeks/months ago.

It is clear there is a big problem, and BMD has not even issued a warning.
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Re: Huston? we could have a problem...

PostThu Oct 06, 2022 1:52 pm

Yannick Willox wrote:...
It is clear there is a big problem, and BMD has not even issued a warning.


Maybe the warning is that the record dot on the monitor shows red when it is not recording.
Seems like something a noob programmer might do.
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