UMP G2 4K DCI 12:1 BRAW IQ

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Ellory Yu

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UMP G2 4K DCI 12:1 BRAW IQ

PostWed Nov 23, 2022 3:44 am

Has anyone record At 12:1 BRAW on a UMP G2 in 4K DCI resolution? If so, what is the IQ like and at what kind of image and lighting would you say the IQ starts to be muddy?
URSA Mini Pro 4.6K G2, Blackmagic Design Pocket Cinema Camera 6K, Panasonic GH5
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Mike Potton

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Re: UMP G2 4K DCI 12:1 BRAW IQ

PostWed Nov 23, 2022 5:20 am

Looks like you have the camera, why not do a test? Often these questions are best answered by doing your own camera tests rather than trusting anyone on the internet :D

Though one would assume Q5 would yield better results as it will scale the bitrate to scene complexity.
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Ellory Yu

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Re: UMP G2 4K DCI 12:1 BRAW IQ

PostWed Nov 23, 2022 9:13 am

Yes, I can do the test but I just needed to know tonight as I am cramp with time for an early shoot tomorrow and I never shot at anything above 5:1. I also trust some of the guys experiences and their expertise - JB, Tim, Rick, and Howard just to name a few, who might already tested or used this setting. Anyway, thanks for suggesting Q5.
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Tyler Edwards

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Re: UMP G2 4K DCI 12:1 BRAW IQ

PostFri Nov 25, 2022 5:35 pm

Depends on a couple things like the scene and delivery. If it is a well lit scene (not lowlight) and not a ton of small motion (foliage, etc), 12:1 is more than sufficient; especially for web delivery. At least in my experience.
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timbutt2

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Re: UMP G2 4K DCI 12:1 BRAW IQ

PostSat Nov 26, 2022 5:45 am

I've got to say that the 4K DCI 12:1 is very similar in Image Quality to 4.6K 2.4:1 at 12:1, but instead you're getting a bit less horizontal resolution. I haven't found it to be too terrible. Although, these days I just choose Q5 instead of 12:1 so that I get a little more detail if there's more detail in the footage being captured based on my lens selection. Mainly more in focus meaning more detail, so it's more like 8:1 at that point.

I don't often shoot in the 4K DCI however. I've tested it a bit. Generally I keep to 4.6K 16:9, 4.6K 2.4:1, and 3K Anamorphic 1.2:1 for the shooting options I use most. Unless I need 240 FPS, in which case I've shot 2K 16:9 to great results as well. And, that 2K 16:9 I've shot Q5 and it still look good. Not at all muddy. But that was outdoors in a well let situation.

I normally light everything really well. As long as I'm not pushing high ISO ranges in lowlight 12:1 is fine. 8:1 obviously looks better. 5:1 is my main choice these days for higher quality stuff that's more controlled and where I know there's set recording times. So for example narrative and music videos.

I really wish the UMPG2 had gotten the updates and we had gotten a few more Q options. I would totally use Q3 a lot over Q5. But when the next generation URSA is announced next year I'll be upgrading to that.
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Cameras: URSA Mini Pro G2 & Pocket 6K Pro
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Ellory Yu

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Re: UMP G2 4K DCI 12:1 BRAW IQ

PostSat Nov 26, 2022 7:37 am

timbutt2 wrote:I've got to say that the 4K DCI 12:1 is very similar in Image Quality to 4.6K 2.4:1 at 12:1, but instead you're getting a bit less horizontal resolution. I haven't found it to be too terrible. Although, these days I just choose Q5 instead of 12:1 so that I get a little more detail if there's more detail in the footage being captured based on my lens selection. Mainly more in focus meaning more detail, so it's more like 8:1 at that point.

I don't often shoot in the 4K DCI however. I've tested it a bit. Generally I keep to 4.6K 16:9, 4.6K 2.4:1, and 3K Anamorphic 1.2:1 for the shooting options I use most. Unless I need 240 FPS, in which case I've shot 2K 16:9 to great results as well. And, that 2K 16:9 I've shot Q5 and it still look good. Not at all muddy. But that was outdoors in a well let situation.

I normally light everything really well. As long as I'm not pushing high ISO ranges in lowlight 12:1 is fine. 8:1 obviously looks better. 5:1 is my main choice these days for higher quality stuff that's more controlled and where I know there's set recording times. So for example narrative and music videos.

I really wish the UMPG2 had gotten the updates and we had gotten a few more Q options. I would totally use Q3 a lot over Q5. But when the next generation URSA is announced next year I'll be upgrading to that.

First, thanks to everyone’s input. Tim, so glad you chimed in. This is exactly what I was looking for and actually although your reply was after the fact, I did end up shooting at 12:1 in daylight so it worked. I did wanted to shoot in Q5 instead but the media I was given to use was not up to par and when the details allowed for higher quality, I did encountered some dropped frames, hence resorted back to 12:1. But all in all, you feedback is super. I promised myself not to accept a drive that I have never tested. I’m with you, I usually shoot in 5:1 with the URSA G2, albeit I am using a supported media.
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Re: UMP G2 4K DCI 12:1 BRAW IQ

PostSat Nov 26, 2022 2:25 pm

Ellory Yu wrote:... I did wanted to shoot in Q5 instead but the media I was given to use was not up to par and when the details allowed for higher quality, I did encountered some dropped frames, hence resorted back to 12:1...


Glad the 12:1 worked well for your media given your limited choices. I always shoot the best quality for the media I have subject to the limitations of planned time recording time. You made the best choice for your circumstances.
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Ellory Yu

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Re: UMP G2 4K DCI 12:1 BRAW IQ

PostSat Nov 26, 2022 5:03 pm

rick.lang wrote:
Ellory Yu wrote:... I did wanted to shoot in Q5 instead but the media I was given to use was not up to par and when the details allowed for higher quality, I did encountered some dropped frames, hence resorted back to 12:1...


Glad the 12:1 worked well for your media given your limited choices. I always shoot the best quality for the media I have subject to the limitations of planned time recording time. You made the best choice for your circumstances.

Thanks Rick. They were not local and wanted to bring back their own media (no idea why) when they return to their country. They were happy at the end but next time I won’t go with untested media.
URSA Mini Pro 4.6K G2, Blackmagic Design Pocket Cinema Camera 6K, Panasonic GH5
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Ellory Yu

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Re: UMP G2 4K DCI 12:1 BRAW IQ

PostSat Nov 26, 2022 5:20 pm

Unrelated to the topic but I’m just going to sneak it here because this is what I used with the SSD when I recorded for the quick project.

I have been testing this SSD dock to record on SSD drive since it has been easier and cost effective to use SSD drive, and also convenient to go from recording to a workstation drive bay for editing. I was looking for a new BM SSD drive for the URSA G2 and they no longer sell it. So I saw this and got one. I have been testing it with various SSD and It has been rather reliable and of course a lot cheaper than the BM drive. I got it for $30 on B&H. Tested it with different SSD brands and type c cable. I found the Kondor blue cable so much reliable than all others. Anyway Just sharing this with those interested.

E4A74997-3755-4EC5-ADE5-C432528C7314.jpeg
E4A74997-3755-4EC5-ADE5-C432528C7314.jpeg (76.3 KiB) Viewed 420 times
URSA Mini Pro 4.6K G2, Blackmagic Design Pocket Cinema Camera 6K, Panasonic GH5
PC Workstation Core I7 64Gb, 2 x AMD R9 390X 8Gb, Blackmagic Design DeckLink 4K Mini Monitor, Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, Resolve Studio 18, BM Micro Panel & Speed Editor
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timbutt2

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Re: UMP G2 4K DCI 12:1 BRAW IQ

PostSat Nov 26, 2022 10:22 pm

You're welcome! And, sorry for the late reply. Didn't see this thread until after the holiday period was winding down.

Next, I don't know why they didn't just bring a hard drive and allow you to transfer the files off the recording media on to that drive? That seems like the most logical thing to do. But then again, I am asking humans to be logical which all evidence has proven humans to be anything but.
"I'm well trained in the art of turning **** to gold." - Tim Buttner (timbutt2)

Cameras: URSA Mini Pro G2 & Pocket 6K Pro
Past: UM4.6K, P6K, BMCC 2.5K
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Ellory Yu

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Re: UMP G2 4K DCI 12:1 BRAW IQ

PostSun Nov 27, 2022 9:55 am

timbutt2 wrote:You're welcome! And, sorry for the late reply. Didn't see this thread until after the holiday period was winding down.

Next, I don't know why they didn't just bring a hard drive and allow you to transfer the files off the recording media on to that drive? That seems like the most logical thing to do. But then again, I am asking humans to be logical which all evidence has proven humans to be anything but.

Hey, no worries. I hope you got some rest and fun during the holiday.
I have my thoughts on that since I had wondered why they didn’t just have me transfer it over. It must be an ownership issue - probably didn’t want to leave any copies behind. I hope I am wrong. But that happens when working with new, sometimes odd clientele. Only if they have told me that I’ll be using their SSD, I would have at least let them know what brand and model to buy. They gave me a brand that I have not seen before - I think it was “Bitwin” - never heard of it. FWIW, it worked in 12:1 and they were fine with that. ;)
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Uli Plank

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Re: UMP G2 4K DCI 12:1 BRAW IQ

PostSun Nov 27, 2022 9:59 am

Sounds pretty much like a cheap Chinese label.
Glad it didn’t bite you.
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Ellory Yu

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Re: UMP G2 4K DCI 12:1 BRAW IQ

PostMon Nov 28, 2022 2:39 am

Uli Plank wrote:Sounds pretty much like a cheap Chinese label.
Glad it didn’t bite you.

Yes, I am glad too because I was getting worried. I usually shoot in Prores HQ or BRAW 5:1 for most projects. For this, they were okay with 12:1 as long as it was their drive.
Thanks for everyone’s help here.
URSA Mini Pro 4.6K G2, Blackmagic Design Pocket Cinema Camera 6K, Panasonic GH5
PC Workstation Core I7 64Gb, 2 x AMD R9 390X 8Gb, Blackmagic Design DeckLink 4K Mini Monitor, Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, Resolve Studio 18, BM Micro Panel & Speed Editor

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