Expose image

The place for questions about shooting with Blackmagic Cameras.
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

gsean96

  • Posts: 6
  • Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2022 8:38 am
  • Real Name: GLOIRE W KALETA

Expose image

PostTue Nov 22, 2022 9:19 am

Hi, I’m new to the cinematography world and black magic cameras. I uploaded a picture to illustrate what I mean because I don’t know how it’s called , it’s looked like a sort of waves when the image has almost no noise . Can someone please tell me how it’s called, how to achieve it in every shot and what does it mean? Because In every clean image I see has those sort of lines or waves . I use the Bmpcc 6k pro with sigma art prime lenses.Image
I once did while exposing at 200 iso, 1.8 Iris and the image was a bit under exposed. I really appreciate any instruction. Thank you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Offline

GalinMcMahon

  • Posts: 715
  • Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2019 10:14 pm
  • Real Name: Galin McMahon

Re: Expose image

PostWed Nov 23, 2022 4:13 pm

It's hard to tell on my office monitor but it appears to be banding. Are you maybe editing in 8 bit? I believe there is an effect called 'Debander' that should help with that. Or you could select the darker regions in color and lower the MD (midtone dynamics) or just add some subtle blur.
Water cooled Windows 11 laptop
i9 12th gen - 64GB RAM - 16GB 3080ti
2TB 4th gen nvme main - 4TB 4th gen nvme scratch
Micro panel (thank you BM :) ) - Stream Deck
Resolve Studio 18.5
BenQ ultrawide - DeckLink 4k mini via Sonnet - 48” LG C2 OLED
Offline

Chris Cronin

  • Posts: 107
  • Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:45 pm

Re: Expose image

PostWed Nov 23, 2022 6:34 pm

Probably not related, but any reason why you exposed at 200 ISO?
Offline

John Brawley

  • Posts: 4264
  • Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:57 am
  • Location: Los Angeles California

Re: Expose image

PostWed Nov 23, 2022 7:41 pm

gsean96 wrote:Hi, I’m new to the cinematography world and black magic cameras. I uploaded a picture to illustrate what I mean because I don’t know how it’s called , it’s looked like a sort of waves when the image has almost no noise . Can someone please tell me how it’s called, how to achieve it in every shot and what does it mean? Because In every clean image I see has those sort of lines or waves . I use the Bmpcc 6k pro with sigma art prime lenses.Image
I once did while exposing at 200 iso, 1.8 Iris and the image was a bit under exposed. I really appreciate any instruction. Thank you.


I think you’re referring to banding. It’s hard to tell so I’m guessing at what you’re asking, but if you have banding on footage shot with a Blackmagic camera, it’s not the cameras fault.

I bet you are using Premiere? It seems to have an 8 bit default mode where it creates this banding during editing.

Try the same shots in Resolve and see if there’s a difference.

JB
John Brawley ACS
Cinematographer
Currently - Los Angeles
Offline

gsean96

  • Posts: 6
  • Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2022 8:38 am
  • Real Name: GLOIRE W KALETA

Re: Expose image

PostThu Nov 24, 2022 6:30 am

Chris Cronin wrote:Probably not related, but any reason why you exposed at 200 ISO?
Hi, I always try to have the least noise as I can since I’m learning to shoot for music video. So Indoor I always try to stick around 200-400. To avoid noise because I think 800 is too noisy for me. Any suggestion?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Offline

gsean96

  • Posts: 6
  • Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2022 8:38 am
  • Real Name: GLOIRE W KALETA

Re: Expose image

PostThu Nov 24, 2022 2:19 pm

John Brawley wrote:
gsean96 wrote:Hi, I’m new to the cinematography world and black magic cameras. I uploaded a picture to illustrate what I mean because I don’t know how it’s called , it’s looked like a sort of waves when the image has almost no noise . Can someone please tell me how it’s called, how to achieve it in every shot and what does it mean? Because In every clean image I see has those sort of lines or waves . I use the Bmpcc 6k pro with sigma art prime lenses.Image
I once did while exposing at 200 iso, 1.8 Iris and the image was a bit under exposed. I really appreciate any instruction. Thank you.


I think you’re referring to banding. It’s hard to tell so I’m guessing at what you’re asking, but if you have banding on footage shot with a Blackmagic camera, it’s not the cameras fault.

I bet you are using Premiere? It seems to have an 8 bit default mode where it creates this banding during editing.

Try the same shots in Resolve and see if there’s a difference.

JB
Image
Here’s a better image. I have noticed most videos on YouTube have have those linear in the background . I’m wondering if it something done in production or how do achieve that?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Offline

John Brawley

  • Posts: 4264
  • Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:57 am
  • Location: Los Angeles California

Re: Expose image

PostMon Nov 28, 2022 7:47 pm

To be clear, you are trying to avoid banding in flat fields of colour?

You DO NOT WANT banding right?

What editing platform are you using ?

JB
John Brawley ACS
Cinematographer
Currently - Los Angeles
Offline
User avatar

carlomacchiavello

  • Posts: 2576
  • Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2012 6:04 pm
  • Location: italy

Re: Expose image

PostMon Nov 28, 2022 9:36 pm

gsean96 wrote:
Chris Cronin wrote:Probably not related, but any reason why you exposed at 200 ISO?
Hi, I always try to have the least noise as I can since I’m learning to shoot for music video. So Indoor I always try to stick around 200-400. To avoid noise because I think 800 is too noisy for me. Any suggestion?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Pockets had 400 native iso, if you shoot 200 iso not reduce noise, only change curve of contrast.
Do you shoot raw or prores?
film or video settings ?
What software do you use to develop shooting? What technique do you use to develop film clip?
There are a lots of questions to answer to try to help you.


Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk
Offline

gsean96

  • Posts: 6
  • Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2022 8:38 am
  • Real Name: GLOIRE W KALETA

Re: Expose image

PostTue Nov 29, 2022 3:53 am

carlomacchiavello wrote:
gsean96 wrote:
Chris Cronin wrote:Probably not related, but any reason why you exposed at 200 ISO?
Hi, I always try to have the least noise as I can since I’m learning to shoot for music video. So Indoor I always try to stick around 200-400. To avoid noise because I think 800 is too noisy for me. Any suggestion?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Pockets had 400 native iso, if you shoot 200 iso not reduce noise, only change curve of contrast.
Do you shoot raw or prores?
film or video settings ?
What software do you use to develop shooting? What technique do you use to develop film clip?
There are a lots of questions to answer to try to help you.


Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk
Hi, I’m shooting Raw, Film and use Davenci studio 18. I will try to stick to 400 when shooting in studio where I have control of lights. Or is there a better Spot for ISO


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Offline

gsean96

  • Posts: 6
  • Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2022 8:38 am
  • Real Name: GLOIRE W KALETA

Re: Expose image

PostTue Nov 29, 2022 3:56 am

John Brawley wrote:To be clear, you are trying to avoid banding in flat fields of colour?

You DO NOT WANT banding right?

What editing platform are you using ?

JB
So basically I’m trying to understand how to have them and avoid them. I see them in Most videos on YouTube. I’d say 90% so I thought maybe it a good thing. And I use davenci resolve Studio 18


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Offline

Ellory Yu

  • Posts: 3929
  • Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:25 pm

Re: Expose image

PostTue Nov 29, 2022 4:42 am

Banding happens when you either shoot or process in 8-bit or have highly compressed images. Usually you do not want to have banding. I think the reason you see a lot of videos in YouTube with such banding is because of the compression applied to the video, compression during upload, and/or the video is processed in 8-bit. This is not via the BM camera itself, however possible with cameras recording in 8-bit. If you want banding, then try rendering your video using a highly compressed codec.

This is not noise caused by ISO and if you are shooting BRAW, ISO has no effect other than for monitoring exposure.
URSA Mini Pro 4.6K G2, Blackmagic Design Pocket Cinema Camera 6K, Panasonic GH5
PC Workstation Core I7 64Gb, 2 x AMD R9 390X 8Gb, Blackmagic Design DeckLink 4K Mini Monitor, Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, Resolve Studio 18, BM Micro Panel & Speed Editor
Offline

Chris Cronin

  • Posts: 107
  • Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:45 pm

Re: Expose image

PostTue Nov 29, 2022 10:43 pm

gsean96 wrote:Hi, I always try to have the least noise as I can since I’m learning to shoot for music video. So Indoor I always try to stick around 200-400. To avoid noise because I think 800 is too noisy for me. Any suggestion?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Basically what @carlomacchiavello said.

You're better off just sticking to the native ISO at 400 as you're not really getting a cleaner image shooting lower, just a different contrast curve applied to the native ISO. Same when switching to the second native ISO of 3200.
Offline
User avatar

Uli Plank

  • Posts: 21109
  • Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:48 am
  • Location: Germany and Indonesia

Re: Expose image

PostWed Nov 30, 2022 2:33 am

Second that.
And then, be aware that YouTube is always applying their own compression, so deliver the best possible quality to them as you can. It doesn't need to be H.264/265, they accept other codecs with larger files up to a certain limit. Some swear on sending UHD to YT, since they'll be using a better codec then.

If you want such an effect, better achieve it with a filter. Try those under Stylize or a third-party Cartoon look filter, since overcompression will introduce other, pretty nasty artefacts.
Maybe AI can help you. Or make you obsolete.

Studio 18.6.5, MacOS 13.6.5
MacBook M1 Pro, 16 GPU cores, 32 GB RAM and iPhone 15 Pro
Speed Editor, UltraStudio Monitor 3G, iMac 2017, eGPU
Online

Sean van Berlo

  • Posts: 600
  • Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 6:33 am
  • Location: The Netherlands

Re: Expose image

PostWed Nov 30, 2022 8:16 am

I am dying at the idea of a generation of new image producers having grown up with YouTube and thinking that banding is supposed to be part of the image now.
Offline

gsean96

  • Posts: 6
  • Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2022 8:38 am
  • Real Name: GLOIRE W KALETA

Re: Expose image

PostWed Nov 30, 2022 8:18 am

Ellory Yu wrote:Banding happens when you either shoot or process in 8-bit or have highly compressed images. Usually you do not want to have banding. I think the reason you see a lot of videos in YouTube with such banding is because of the compression applied to the video, compression during upload, and/or the video is processed in 8-bit. This is not via the BM camera itself, however possible with cameras recording in 8-bit. If you want banding, then try rendering your video using a highly compressed codec.

This is not noise caused by ISO and if you are shooting BRAW, ISO has no effect other than for monitoring exposure.
Alright thanks, I think understand better the concept. I was really confused about. Thank you very much.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Return to Cinematography

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Sean van Berlo and 43 guests