Cinema pocket 4K lenses

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hamurabi

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Cinema pocket 4K lenses

PostWed May 31, 2023 10:35 am

Hello my friends.i am about to buy a pocket 4k camera.
I am very new to cinematography with zero experience or other cameras.
I would like to shoot nature footage and when i am travelling, cities,streets etc.

Any suggestions on what lenses will i need? Cost is a factor so not the most expesive solutions please
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DHLawson

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Re: Cinema pocket 4K lenses

PostWed May 31, 2023 3:38 pm

I'm a complete novice to videography, although I've been a photographer for almost fifty years.
In photography, my preference has been for lenses with the highest resolution and contrast (conflicting parameters, I know.) If I want to soften the look, there's ways to do that even in a wet darkroom process.

I bought a Pocket Cinema 4K to learn videography, and needed M43 lenses for it. I bought two refurbished Olympus f/2.8 Pro lenses, the 12 - 40mm and the 40 - 150mm. Very sharp across the field, and quite contrasty. They're reasonably priced if you get the refurbs.
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Brad Hurley

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Re: Cinema pocket 4K lenses

PostWed May 31, 2023 5:21 pm

Much depends on whether you want prime lenses or zooms, and whether you want a lens with autofocus or completely manual. A zoom might be your simplest choice to start with, and many people recommend the Panasonic 12-35 f/2.8 zoom. It's small and sharp, and can maintain a constant aperture across the zoom range. It also has internal stabilization, although it's not very effective; you'd probably do much better by using the Pocket's gyro stabilization at the expense of a slight crop in your footage. It has significant barrel distortion at the wide end, but that's easy enough to fix in post. The Olympus ones would be good alternatives; I don't think the Olympus 12-40 has stabilization, but again you can use the built-in gyro stabilization in the camera and you'll likely get better results than you would with a lens with OIS.

If you don't need a zoom, Laowa has made a number of excellent small manual prime lenses for MFT that work well with the Pocket 4K. They have excellent image quality, little distortion, and are pretty affordable. They even make cine models of some of these that have gears for a follow-focus if you ever decide to get one.

If you're taking nature and city footage you'll probably want wide lenses, so something in the 9 to 12mm range for MFT would be good; this corresponds to 18-24mm in full-frame terms.

Don't forget to get neutral-density filters (preferably a combination neutral density and IR cut). You don't want to stop down much beyond f8 or at most f11 on small sensors, otherwise the image starts getting soft due to diffraction, and ND filters will also allow you to achieve shallower depth of field (if you want it) even on sunny days.
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hamurabi

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Re: Cinema pocket 4K lenses

PostWed May 31, 2023 9:50 pm

I forgot to tellyou that i will use a gimbal with the camera so i dont need stabiliazation on the lenses.

Also what is the follow focus ??

And with a wide lens like the lowa can i still make s close up shot of something like a person ?

Excuse my total newbie questions since i am just starting my journey in videography
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rNeil H

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Re: Cinema pocket 4K lenses

PostThu Jun 01, 2023 1:12 am

I've got the Panny 12-35, which works well, their 35-100, and an Olympus 17mm, which I use a lot on Moza Air2 gimbal.

I've also made a set of SLR Magic Hyperprime lenses. Four of them now, and I love that glass.

I mostly use the 17mm Oly or 10 or 25mm Hyperprime on the gimbal.

And yes, ND filters with IR cut in them are incredibly useful.

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hamurabi

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Re: Cinema pocket 4K lenses

PostFri Jun 02, 2023 12:02 am

hamurabi wrote:I forgot to tellyou that i will use a gimbal with the camera so i dont need stabiliazation on the lenses.

Also what is the follow focus ??

And with a wide lens like the lowa can i still make s close up shot of something like a person ?

Excuse my total newbie questions since i am just starting my journey in videography


Anybody?
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Uli Plank

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Re: Cinema pocket 4K lenses

PostFri Jun 02, 2023 12:41 am

- A gimbal doesn’t serve the same purpose as a stabilized lens.
- A follow focus is an additional gear and wheel for precise focusing. Google it and you’ll find examples.
- Technically you can focus very close with wides. Aesthetically it may look strange on people because of exaggerated perspective.
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Re: Cinema pocket 4K lenses

PostFri Jun 02, 2023 1:14 am

Here is an example of exaggerated perspective. (Full frame)

DifferentFocalLengthsA.jpeg
Different focal lengths 24-135mm
DifferentFocalLengthsA.jpeg (47.41 KiB) Viewed 4249 times


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konicekj

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Re: Cinema pocket 4K lenses

PostSun Jun 04, 2023 2:40 pm

I would suggest Canon FD prime lenses, very cheap and amazing performance - small bmpcc 4k sensor can see only FD lens sweet spot...
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Bromine 18

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Re: Cinema pocket 4K lenses

PostMon Jun 05, 2023 10:12 am

hamurabi wrote:Excuse my total newbie questions since i am just starting my journey in videography


If you’re a total beginner and are looking to jump into cinematography/videography, might I suggest to first read up considerably on basics such as follow focus, lensing, and gear tech?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Cinematography

Not attempting to discourage you, but if you buy a Pocket 4K without building a strong theoretical foundation, then you might find yourself disillusioned and struggling considerably to operate the camera.

On the other hand, jumping off the deep end tends to help a lot of people to learn from scratch, so if that approach works for you then by all means feel free to dive in.
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hamurabi

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Re: Cinema pocket 4K lenses

PostMon Jun 05, 2023 12:26 pm

Yes of course i will do that.i am on the stage now that i search and read. Later i will buy the pocket 4K. But first i want to be sure that it will be the right gear for me.

As i said i want to shoot places (nature and cities) while i travel. I read in a review that this camera if is on a gimbal (as i thought that i should do) it would cause problems with a slight touch with its balance and it will need rebalancing again and again.
Any thoughts on this?
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hamurabi

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Re: Cinema pocket 4K lenses

PostMon Jun 05, 2023 12:37 pm

Another question i have is this. I want to buy 2 lenses for this camera.
One will be for portraits and generally close shots in which i want a strong Bokeh.
And the other will be a beautiful wide lens for landscapes .
I want both to provide clean image and do their job at night as well

Which should these lenses be?
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rNeil H

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Re: Cinema pocket 4K lenses

PostMon Jun 05, 2023 3:10 pm

The camera will be able to capture imagery closely equivalent to the finest cinema cameras made. You have two challenges facing you.

The first, as in this thread, is choice of lens. Which ends up being nearly as much a matter of image taste versus convenience as technical image Q.

The second challenge takes longer: learning to come close to the capabilities of that hardware. But it can be a very enjoyable Life as long as you realize it is a longtime Quest.

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hamurabi

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Re: Cinema pocket 4K lenses

PostMon Jun 05, 2023 3:17 pm

Thank you very much but i would like to hear e a little more specific Answers..
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rick.lang

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Re: Cinema pocket 4K lenses

PostMon Jun 05, 2023 3:52 pm

What is your maximum budget for these two lenses? Do you want prime lenses or zoom lenses or one of each (prime for closeups and zoom for everything else)?
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rNeil H

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Re: Cinema pocket 4K lenses

PostMon Jun 05, 2023 4:42 pm

"We" can share suggestions. But each suggestion will have a different feel than another. "We" can't give you an exact answer of the best for you.

You may need to buy a couple and shoot a bit, then try another lens or two. Maybe close together, maybe over time.

Nothing will necessarily be "wrong", but also nay not be the right one to keep.

Best wishes ... it only took me three years to end up with the Hyperprime set I've made.

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Kye Leslie

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Re: Cinema pocket 4K lenses

PostMon Jun 05, 2023 10:56 pm

I shoot my own travel films of my family and friends and after shooting only stills I moved to videography about 8 years ago, so thought I'd share some of my thoughts as it seems you (or others reading) may have similar goals.

Asking "what lens" is a logical question, but in many ways neither us nor you have enough information to be able to answer. In order to get the right answer, I think there are several factors that this flows from.

1) Where and how will you be shooting?
Recording video while standing on a jam-packed Vaporetto Water Bus in Venice will require a setup that you can operate one-handed while standing and literally bumping into people as the boat moves. There are lots of places where even just the camera and a lens will be too large for practical use, let alone a microphone and gimbal. This impacts lens choice in a significant way too - if you're standing 2ft away from people then a wider lens is more useful than a telephoto lens. Trying to shoot inside private spaces (like museums, art galleries, hotels, zoos, some gardens, shopping centres, markets, etc) have restrictions on "professional / commercial" photography, which unfortunately they will enforce depending on the size and complexity of your camera setup - if it's big and ugly then you're a professional and need permission. Trying to use your gimbal in many places may mean that you are blocked from shooting anything, and may force you to "store" your equipment in a locker that you can only get back on exit. I was on an organised tour through the Vatican and they refused to let me in with a gorillapod because it was a tripod (despite being only 30cm tall) and offered to put it in a locker for me, but as the tour was going in one entrance and out a different exit and the tour bus had already left, I lost my gorillapod for the whole trip.

2) What sort of video are you trying to make?
Are you trying to make tranquil and beautiful videos of what you see, which would be best captured with shots where the camera is either not moving much, or perhaps moving slowly and gracefully, or are you trying to make dynamic fast-paced films reminiscent of videos like Morocco Arise by Brandon Li (search on YouTube). This will impact things like what lens size you're comfortable with and how long it takes to setup the camera and how long it takes to setup each shot with proper exposure and focus etc. The Pocket 4K creates a beautiful image but it's not easy/fast to work with.

3) Who are you shooting in your films?
Do you want to include yourself in your films? Is this hand-held "vlog" style, or from a tripod nearby? Are you travelling with people you know? If so, you'll probably want to film them from close-up as well as at a medium distance, but probably not that often from a long way away.
If you're only filming strangers then are you a very social person and you're going to talk to people and get their permission? or are you going to try and shoot strangers without their permission? If so, you are either going to have to shoot them from further away, or if you shoot them up close be ready for them to react to you (sometimes very strongly).

4) How diverse are the locations you're shooting?
It's very different if you're shooting in your home country where you understand the law, the culture, and know how to read the social situation and interact with people. However, if you're shooting in foreign countries where you may not know the law, the local customs, the local culture and local signals, or even the language. It's common for people making films in foreign places to hire a "fixer" who can organise things, explain local customs, and deal with any authorities. You may not be aware, but lots of the travel films that you see on YouTube are often planned in advance and have entire teams of people working behind the scenes, even if the final video just looks like someone walking around shooting shots here and there. A big camera rig also makes you a target for crime - most people that shoot in poorer areas of the world deliberately use a setup that is as small as possible, with some people even covering their equipment with tape to make it look dirty/broken/old so it doesn't look worth stealing.

Not knowing any of this, I would suggest that you start with the 12-60mm F2.8-F4 lens. It's not cheap but it's got a wide zoom range, has a wide/fast aperture, has stabilisation, and is a high quality image. To be clear - this is a lens that you can learn with. Not only do you need to learn all the technical film-making topics, but you need to learn how you work, what you like, and what the reality is for shooting travel films. After you've learned these things there's a good chance that you'll keep the lens too, it's a very popular lens for good reason.

From my perspective, I feel like I've finally gotten to a clear understanding about what I shoot, where and how I shoot, and what compromises I am willing to accept. It took me: 3 camera bodies/systems, three fundamentally different approaches including a dozen or more lenses, and many many thousands of dollars.

Best of luck!
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hamurabi

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Re: Cinema pocket 4K lenses

PostTue Jun 06, 2023 6:28 am

rick.lang wrote:What is your maximum budget for these two lenses? Do you want prime lenses or zoom lenses or one of each (prime for closeups and zoom for everything else)?


I would say around 1000$ for both lenses.
Maybe primefor closeups and zoom forneveything else.
I would prefer more compact lenses than very big
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hamurabi

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Re: Cinema pocket 4K lenses

PostTue Jun 06, 2023 6:39 am

Kye Leslie wrote:I shoot my own travel films of my family and friends and after shooting only stills I moved to videography about 8 years ago, so thought I'd share some of my thoughts as it seems you (or others reading) may have similar goals.

Asking "what lens" is a logical question, but in many ways neither us nor you have enough information to be able to answer. In order to get the right answer, I think there are several factors that this flows from.

1) Where and how will you be shooting?
Recording video while standing on a jam-packed Vaporetto Water Bus in Venice will require a setup that you can operate one-handed while standing and literally bumping into people as the boat moves. There are lots of places where even just the camera and a lens will be too large for practical use, let alone a microphone and gimbal. This impacts lens choice in a significant way too - if you're standing 2ft away from people then a wider lens is more useful than a telephoto lens. Trying to shoot inside private spaces (like museums, art galleries, hotels, zoos, some gardens, shopping centres, markets, etc) have restrictions on "professional / commercial" photography, which unfortunately they will enforce depending on the size and complexity of your camera setup - if it's big and ugly then you're a professional and need permission. Trying to use your gimbal in many places may mean that you are blocked from shooting anything, and may force you to "store" your equipment in a locker that you can only get back on exit. I was on an organised tour through the Vatican and they refused to let me in with a gorillapod because it was a tripod (despite being only 30cm tall) and offered to put it in a locker for me, but as the tour was going in one entrance and out a different exit and the tour bus had already left, I lost my gorillapod for the whole trip.

2) What sort of video are you trying to make?
Are you trying to make tranquil and beautiful videos of what you see, which would be best captured with shots where the camera is either not moving much, or perhaps moving slowly and gracefully, or are you trying to make dynamic fast-paced films reminiscent of videos like Morocco Arise by Brandon Li (search on YouTube). This will impact things like what lens size you're comfortable with and how long it takes to setup the camera and how long it takes to setup each shot with proper exposure and focus etc. The Pocket 4K creates a beautiful image but it's not easy/fast to work with.

3) Who are you shooting in your films?
Do you want to include yourself in your films? Is this hand-held "vlog" style, or from a tripod nearby? Are you travelling with people you know? If so, you'll probably want to film them from close-up as well as at a medium distance, but probably not that often from a long way away.
If you're only filming strangers then are you a very social person and you're going to talk to people and get their permission? or are you going to try and shoot strangers without their permission? If so, you are either going to have to shoot them from further away, or if you shoot them up close be ready for them to react to you (sometimes very strongly).

4) How diverse are the locations you're shooting?
It's very different if you're shooting in your home country where you understand the law, the culture, and know how to read the social situation and interact with people. However, if you're shooting in foreign countries where you may not know the law, the local customs, the local culture and local signals, or even the language. It's common for people making films in foreign places to hire a "fixer" who can organise things, explain local customs, and deal with any authorities. You may not be aware, but lots of the travel films that you see on YouTube are often planned in advance and have entire teams of people working behind the scenes, even if the final video just looks like someone walking around shooting shots here and there. A big camera rig also makes you a target for crime - most people that shoot in poorer areas of the world deliberately use a setup that is as small as possible, with some people even covering their equipment with tape to make it look dirty/broken/old so it doesn't look worth stealing.

Not knowing any of this, I would suggest that you start with the 12-60mm F2.8-F4 lens. It's not cheap but it's got a wide zoom range, has a wide/fast aperture, has stabilisation, and is a high quality image. To be clear - this is a lens that you can learn with. Not only do you need to learn all the technical film-making topics, but you need to learn how you work, what you like, and what the reality is for shooting travel films. After you've learned these things there's a good chance that you'll keep the lens too, it's a very popular lens for good reason.

From my perspective, I feel like I've finally gotten to a clear understanding about what I shoot, where and how I shoot, and what compromises I am willing to accept. It took me: 3 camera bodies/systems, three fundamentally different approaches including a dozen or more lenses, and many many thousands of dollars.
Best of luck!


First of all thankyou for your time to write all this info.
1)i guess sometimes i will be inside a crowd and inside museums and stuff but not my main shooting.
2)i will shoot mainly tranquil and beautiful videos and vrry rarely more dynamic.
3)my less than half footage maybe even less will be vlog style shooting myself or someone very near me. But the most shooting is streets,views,prople around ,cities,nature.
4)i will shoot many videos in foreign countries but mainly in safe countries
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hamurabi

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Re: Cinema pocket 4K lenses

PostTue Jun 06, 2023 7:23 am

I was thinking of the sigma 56mm f1.4 for closer shots and the laowa 10mm f2.0 for the wide shots
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MKUltraPrimes

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Re: Cinema pocket 4K lenses

PostTue Jun 06, 2023 7:29 am

just get an olympus 12-40 and ND filter, it's all you need.
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rick.lang

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Re: Cinema pocket 4K lenses

PostTue Jun 06, 2023 11:18 pm

Yes, that suggestion is a good place to begin. Regularly $1000, but on sale for $800 so you’ll be able to get a longer prime lens or put the savings toward some IRND filters.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1688419-REG

Later when budget permits, this SLR Magic Microprime T1.5 35mm could make a decent portrait lens:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1599012-REG

If you think that’s not long enough, and you really wanted a special portrait lens, remember you can rotate your BMPCC4K so the longest frame length is along the vertical axis, not the horizontal axis. So you have 4096 pixels to frame your subjects vertically and 2160 pixels for the horizontal axis. That technique could be a good choice for portrait videography.

If you wanted a longer focal length, the T1.5 50mm could suffice.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1507356-REG

A word of caution regarding IRND filters:
If you want to shoot with the zoom on a gimbal, that Olympus lens takes 62mm IRND filters. But the SLR Magic requires 82mm filters. One option is to buy 82mm filters and a brass step-up ring 62-82mm. 82mm filters cost more though so you may not want that.

A word of caution regarding step-up rings:
If you buy cheap step-up rings made from aluminum, the metal filter housing and the threaded lens metal housing can bind to the metal step-up ring; if you’re able to find a brass or other metal that is not aluminum or steel, then you’ll find it easier to change filters. I bought mine many years ago; I think it was from Schneider, but it’s discontinued. Here is one that might do:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1706843-REG
Rick Lang
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hamurabi

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Re: Cinema pocket 4K lenses

PostWed Jun 07, 2023 11:59 am

MKUltraPrimes wrote:just get an olympus 12-40 and ND filter, it's all you need.


Why not a.12-60?
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rick.lang

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Re: Cinema pocket 4K lenses

PostWed Jun 07, 2023 12:36 pm

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1304867-REG

This Panasonic Leica 12-60mm lens is a price match, but it does not maintain its f/2.8 aperture as it shifts to f/4 while you zoom. Acceptable because it’s not usually an issue for stills photography, but not a desirable behaviour for a video lens as inevitably you’ll want to zoom within a clip. The Olympus 12-40mm lens maintains a constant f/2.8 aperture through the range.
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hamurabi

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Re: Cinema pocket 4K lenses

PostWed Jun 07, 2023 10:44 pm

rick.lang wrote:https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1304867-REG

This Panasonic Leica 12-60mm lens is a price match, but it does not maintain its f/2.8 aperture as it shifts to f/4 while you zoom. Acceptable because it’s not usually an issue for stills photography, but not a desirable behaviour for a video lens as inevitably you’ll want to zoom within a clip. The Olympus 12-40mm lens maintains a constant f/2.8 aperture through the range.


ok. but is f/2.8 ok for the night shots that i would love to have ?
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rick.lang

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Re: Cinema pocket 4K lenses

PostThu Jun 08, 2023 4:11 am

I think it’s fair to say with the BMPCC4K among other Dual ISO cameras, you’re going to see a muddy shot unless there is additional light coming from somewhere (perhaps motivated by a moon in the sky). Although the camera may let you shoot ISO 6400 or 8000, I don’t go beyond ISO 3200. Some people here feel the noise is too strong even there. You can reduce the excess noise on post but the shot will seem lifeless anyway. Good for horror and murder mysteries I suppose. I you want very low illumination find a T0,95 lens.

I think Canon has developed an amazing sensor that performs in very dark settings. It’s been quite awhile since I read about it, likely pre-pandemic estimated cost of the sensor was $15,000 I believe for just the sensor. These days where most everything has probably increased a third or more.

Better to light your night scene and pull your shadows down in post.
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Re: Cinema pocket 4K lenses

PostThu Jun 08, 2023 5:47 am

hamurabi wrote:ok. but is f/2.8 ok for the night shots that i would love to have ?

I don't think that one lens will handle all of your needs. You need a fast lens for night shooting, especially with a small sensor that doesn't gather much light. I spent a lot of time in post in these shots. Is this the kind of night shot you are interested in?

Big Four Robber Barons Bldg Voigtländer 17.5 F/0.95

Re: Voigtlander Nokton Cine-Mod Set or FUJINON MK18-55mm T2.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90015&p=504547&hilit=Sacramento#p504547
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Kye Leslie

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Re: Cinema pocket 4K lenses

PostThu Jun 08, 2023 9:28 am

I love my Voigtländer 17.5 F/0.95 but it's not the sharpest wide open, so before investing in it you should review the test images and see if they're up to your standard.

The last time I checked though, it was sharper or as sharp than any of the competitors when you compare the apertures directly.. ie, when you stop it down to 1.4 then it is as sharp/sharper than other 1.4 lenses at 1.4, and if you stop it down to f2 then it is as sharp/sharper than other f2 lenses at f2, etc.
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dondidnod

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Re: Cinema pocket 4K lenses

PostThu Jun 08, 2023 5:03 pm

Yes, wide open the Voigtländers are not my first choice for a commercial project, but at F/2.8 they are as sharp as any of their competition for the money. Since they don't rely on heavy anti-reflective coatings to boost contrast, they have better fine details in the shadows. They have beautiful flares though, and add another brush to use to paint with.

"There are times when the low light ability of the BMPCC4K and the cinematic flaring ability of a very fast lens near wide open adds to your palette in spite of the softness. I posted the image on the left of a former Burning Man statue (Truth is Beauty by Marco Cochrane) shot with a Voigtländer 17.5mm F/0.95 pretty wide open at ISO 2000"

Re: Need help choosing a prime lense for the BMPCC 4K

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=97333&p=540384&hilit=Truth+Beauty#p540384
Last edited by dondidnod on Thu Jun 08, 2023 5:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Marshall Harrington

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Re: Cinema pocket 4K lenses

PostThu Jun 08, 2023 5:22 pm

hamurabi wrote:Another question i have is this. I want to buy 2 lenses for this camera.
One will be for portraits and generally close shots in which i want a strong Bokeh.
And the other will be a beautiful wide lens for landscapes .
I want both to provide clean image and do their job at night as well

Which should these lenses be?
Keep in mind that with stills you tend to look at the image all at once. With motion landscapes a camera often pans. It's one of the basic differences in how you approach making your images.

I've been watching the film Dune, which Craig Fraser shot. I'm not too picky about where I start and stop. I turn it on, turn the volume down and look at the great images he made. How he moved the camera. Basics at a very high level.
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MKUltraPrimes

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Re: Cinema pocket 4K lenses

PostThu Jun 08, 2023 5:40 pm

hamurabi wrote:
rick.lang wrote:https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1304867-REG

This Panasonic Leica 12-60mm lens is a price match, but it does not maintain its f/2.8 aperture as it shifts to f/4 while you zoom. Acceptable because it’s not usually an issue for stills photography, but not a desirable behaviour for a video lens as inevitably you’ll want to zoom within a clip. The Olympus 12-40mm lens maintains a constant f/2.8 aperture through the range.


ok. but is f/2.8 ok for the night shots that i would love to have ?


probably yes, you're a beginner. the versatile focal range within 1 affordable but very good lens should be more important to you. being limited to f/2.8 might also benefit you in the long run, since you might actually learn valuable things about images, instead of just shooting everything at the most shallow dof possible.
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hamurabi

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Re: Cinema pocket 4K lenses

PostThu Jun 08, 2023 8:49 pm

how bad is the fact that the camera doesnt have IBIS since i will use a gimbal?
i am still trying to be sure that it will be the right gear for me (travelling,landscapes,nightshots in cities) or maybe i should check GH5 LUMIX or something similar.

my total income can't stand many tests to find the gear i need so i am trying toi do the best research
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Re: Cinema pocket 4K lenses

PostThu Jun 08, 2023 11:31 pm

I'll chime in because I get the feeling that you might not know how LITTLE fun setting up and using a gimbal with a larger cam like the BMPCC4K is. Are you sure you want that stress while traveling? Have you ever tried it?
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Kye Leslie

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Re: Cinema pocket 4K lenses

PostFri Jun 09, 2023 12:58 am

dondidnod wrote:Yes, wide open the Voigtländers are not my first choice for a commercial project, but at F/2.8 they are as sharp as any of their competition for the money. Since they don't rely on heavy anti-reflective coatings to boost contrast, they have better fine details in the shadows. They have beautiful flares though, and add another brush to use to paint with.

"There are times when the low light ability of the BMPCC4K and the cinematic flaring ability of a very fast lens near wide open adds to your palette in spite of the softness. I posted the image on the left of a former Burning Man statue (Truth is Beauty by Marco Cochrane) shot with a Voigtländer 17.5mm F/0.95 pretty wide open at ISO 2000"

Re: Need help choosing a prime lense for the BMPCC 4K

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=97333&p=540384&hilit=Truth+Beauty#p540384


Good post, both the one above and the post you linked to. I bought the 17.5/0.95 to use with a GH5, and to partially soften the in-camera sharpening. My analysis was that the Voigtländer series had a surprising number of parallels to the Zeiss Super Speed lenses - Roger Cicala at Lensrentals did quite a number of tests (MTF, field curvature, etc) - so in a way they're kind of like high-quality vintage primes but brand new. This makes sense as the cheaper Chinese lens manufacturers tend to use simpler optical recipes and simpler coatings, but are able to achieve reasonable precision - a combination that mimics the high-end lenses of yester-year.
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Kye Leslie

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Re: Cinema pocket 4K lenses

PostFri Jun 09, 2023 1:50 am

hamurabi wrote:how bad is the fact that the camera doesnt have IBIS since i will use a gimbal?
i am still trying to be sure that it will be the right gear for me (travelling,landscapes,nightshots in cities) or maybe i should check GH5 LUMIX or something similar.

my total income can't stand many tests to find the gear i need so i am trying toi do the best research


These types of questions are why myself, and others, have commented that it took them several complete setups and many years to really understand what they shoot, how they shoot it, and what equipment is the best set of compromises.

I think there is a very high probability that your first setup will not work well for you.

I see a few potential strategies that you can use to minimise your financial losses as you experiment and learn:
  • Buy everything second hand. This will ensure that if/when you discover the equipment doesn't work well for you then you won't take a large loss when re-selling it again.
  • Work out what setup you want and hire it. If you're planning to shoot travel content then hire the setup for a day and do a test by doing a few tourist activities close to your own home and see how the setup works.
  • Learn in stages - see more below.

I highly suggest that you learn in stages by doing lots of testing BEFORE you travel. Here's a potential approach, but there are other variations that could also work for you:

1) Take whatever camera you have (maybe your phone) and shoot an outing in your own town/city. Shoot anything and everything. Bring it home and edit it into a finished video. If you're anything like I was, this will be a failure as you probably didn't even get enough of the right shots to string together an edit, or you messed up the shots. When I first started filming I was moving the camera around non-stop, and this is extremely common, but it basically makes the footage unusable in the edit.
Keep doing little trips until you have worked out what type of shots you like, and can actually produce a finished edit. (Note: this has the lovely side effect of getting you out of the house with family/friends and gives you nice footage of them as a momento - not a bad outcome at all! I regularly shoot these types of things in order to practice so that when I am overseas I know what I'm doing already).
It's a good idea to watch BTS videos of travel films while you're in this phase, so that you can see what other people are doing and also imagine what it would be like to do things how they do them. For example, you don't need to own a gimbal to understand that having something huge and highly-conspicuous that you have to wield like a medieval sword isn't the easiest way to film in public.

2) Once you've figured out the shots you like (or the shots you wanted to get but couldn't get with your phone / existing-camera) then you can start to narrow things down and start buying equipment, but I'd suggest you buy very cautiously or rent it at this stage. For example, let's say you have decided on a Pocket 4K, a gimbal, and a 12-40mm lens. You might buy the camera and lens and take it out shooting and discover that the lens isn't wide enough, or isn't long enough, or doesn't let in enough light. You may discover that your editing setup isn't good enough, or that you can't get the look you want from the camera (colour grading is an art in itself and great colour looks easy but can be incredibly difficult to achieve).

3) Review what worked and what didn't work for you while you were actually shooting, then work out what is the next step from there.

I'll elaborate a little on the process that I went through, as I think your journey is likely to be just as long and with as many false starts.
Phase 1:
I used to shoot stills and had a Panasonic GF3 camera and 14-42kit lens and the 14mm F2.5 prime. I wanted nicer colour and so I bought a Canon 700D.

Phase 2:
I wanted to start with video, so I tested the 700D and found the 1080p video it shot was really soft. I thought that the softness was 1080p, so did my research (reading the "wisdom" from "experts" online - ha ha ha) and "learned" that I wanted 4K, a high bitrate, and that Canon colour science. I also knew from shooting video of my kids that I wanted a directional microphone. So I bought the Canon XC10 (4K at 300Mbps!) and the Rode Video Mic Pro Plus. It was a beautiful image, but it is designed to be used manually whereas I used it on full-auto and so the images were often soft (too much light and it would stop down and soften the image from diffraction and too little light and it would raise the ISO and noise would become a problem). I also exposed for the highlights so I didn't clip skies and when I tried to raise up the subjects in the image they'd be mush. The contrast-based autofocus was atrocious and I'd frequently miss shots. I also decided I wanted to have blurrier backgrounds.

Phase 3:
I decided to be smart and test a few things rather than just buying another camera system, so I went back to the Canon 700D and realised that the 1080p it shot was soft because Canon did a poor job on their compression and codec, not because there was anything wrong with 1080p. So I installed Magic Lantern (a hack that lets you shoot RAW video) and bought a Sigma 18-35mm F1.8 lens. This allowed me to get sharp RAW video with Canon colour science and the Sigma was SHARP and gave blurry backgrounds.
But the setup was heavy, the files were prohibitively large, difficult to colour grade (and required conversion before you could open them in Resolve) and neither the camera nor lens had any stabilisation at all, so the images were shaky as hell.
I did, however, discover that I was ok with manually focusing the lens. It's a different aesthetic to AF, but it sort of feels 'human' in some way that I don't mind.

Phase 4:
As I had worked out that I don't mind manually focusing, I bought the GH5 and the SLR Magic 8mm F4, the Voigtlander 17.5mm F0.95, and the Helios 58mm F2 vintage prime. I later upgraded to the Laowa 7.5mm F2 and the Voigtlander 42.5mm F0.95, and then later again to the TTartisans 50mm F1.2. I kept the Rode mic.
I found this setup to be functional, relatively easy to use, have images I really liked, but was large and attracted attention out in public. I had also swapped from shooting 4K back to shooting 1080p as the implementation in the GH5 has several advantages, and I worked out I didn't need 4K (and neither do most people - 4K is mostly hype).
I also bought a GX85 as a second / backup camera, which along with the 14-42mm and 14mm F2.5 lenses could suffice if the GH5 got stolen/dropped/etc and could also do timelapses or record a second angle of something.

Phase 5:
On my last trip earlier this year to Korea I discovered that I actually preferred shooting with the GX85 and 14mm F2.5 lens because it's smaller and I can get more shots I like because I'm able to shoot without attracting as much attention. Having fast AF (only AF-S, not continuous) is also really nice!
I am now contemplating buying the 12-32mm pancake zoom lens to give a bit of flexibility to the setup. I also discovered that my iPhone 12 mini now shoots in 10-bit HDR and the images actually look really good if you know how to colour grade them properly, so that's my super-wide angle and camera for quick shots.

You know the funny part? Because I now know what I shoot, how I shoot it, and how to edit and colour grade, I could use and be happy with any of these cameras. I also own the BM original BMPCC (the 1080p one) and the BM Micro Cinema Camera, and if I had to use one of those exclusively from now on I could get by ok with them too, although they're slower to work with of course.

If you don't know if you want a Pocket 4K and gimbal or a GH5, then you are still many years away from knowing what equipment will work best for you. I recommend choosing a path that costs the least money.
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Re: Cinema pocket 4K lenses

PostFri Jun 09, 2023 1:57 am

Keep, great post on the process if learning video shooting! And it is a process over time. For everyone I know.

Does anyone ever start with what they choose to use a couple years later?

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Re: Cinema pocket 4K lenses

PostFri Jun 09, 2023 12:53 pm

Kye Leslie wrote:
hamurabi wrote:how bad is the fact that the camera doesnt have IBIS since i will use a gimbal?
i am still trying to be sure that it will be the right gear for me (travelling,landscapes,nightshots in cities) or maybe i should check GH5 LUMIX or something similar.

my total income can't stand many tests to find the gear i need so i am trying toi do the best research


These types of questions are why myself, and others, have commented that it took them several complete setups and many years to really understand what they shoot, how they shoot it, and what equipment is the best set of compromises.

I think there is a very high probability that your first setup will not work well for you.

I see a few potential strategies that you can use to minimise your financial losses as you experiment and learn:
  • Buy everything second hand. This will ensure that if/when you discover the equipment doesn't work well for you then you won't take a large loss when re-selling it again.
  • Work out what setup you want and hire it. If you're planning to shoot travel content then hire the setup for a day and do a test by doing a few tourist activities close to your own home and see how the setup works.
  • Learn in stages - see more below.

I highly suggest that you learn in stages by doing lots of testing BEFORE you travel. Here's a potential approach, but there are other variations that could also work for you:

1) Take whatever camera you have (maybe your phone) and shoot an outing in your own town/city. Shoot anything and everything. Bring it home and edit it into a finished video. If you're anything like I was, this will be a failure as you probably didn't even get enough of the right shots to string together an edit, or you messed up the shots. When I first started filming I was moving the camera around non-stop, and this is extremely common, but it basically makes the footage unusable in the edit.
Keep doing little trips until you have worked out what type of shots you like, and can actually produce a finished edit. (Note: this has the lovely side effect of getting you out of the house with family/friends and gives you nice footage of them as a momento - not a bad outcome at all! I regularly shoot these types of things in order to practice so that when I am overseas I know what I'm doing already).
It's a good idea to watch BTS videos of travel films while you're in this phase, so that you can see what other people are doing and also imagine what it would be like to do things how they do them. For example, you don't need to own a gimbal to understand that having something huge and highly-conspicuous that you have to wield like a medieval sword isn't the easiest way to film in public.

2) Once you've figured out the shots you like (or the shots you wanted to get but couldn't get with your phone / existing-camera) then you can start to narrow things down and start buying equipment, but I'd suggest you buy very cautiously or rent it at this stage. For example, let's say you have decided on a Pocket 4K, a gimbal, and a 12-40mm lens. You might buy the camera and lens and take it out shooting and discover that the lens isn't wide enough, or isn't long enough, or doesn't let in enough light. You may discover that your editing setup isn't good enough, or that you can't get the look you want from the camera (colour grading is an art in itself and great colour looks easy but can be incredibly difficult to achieve).

3) Review what worked and what didn't work for you while you were actually shooting, then work out what is the next step from there.

I'll elaborate a little on the process that I went through, as I think your journey is likely to be just as long and with as many false starts.
Phase 1:
I used to shoot stills and had a Panasonic GF3 camera and 14-42kit lens and the 14mm F2.5 prime. I wanted nicer colour and so I bought a Canon 700D.

Phase 2:
I wanted to start with video, so I tested the 700D and found the 1080p video it shot was really soft. I thought that the softness was 1080p, so did my research (reading the "wisdom" from "experts" online - ha ha ha) and "learned" that I wanted 4K, a high bitrate, and that Canon colour science. I also knew from shooting video of my kids that I wanted a directional microphone. So I bought the Canon XC10 (4K at 300Mbps!) and the Rode Video Mic Pro Plus. It was a beautiful image, but it is designed to be used manually whereas I used it on full-auto and so the images were often soft (too much light and it would stop down and soften the image from diffraction and too little light and it would raise the ISO and noise would become a problem). I also exposed for the highlights so I didn't clip skies and when I tried to raise up the subjects in the image they'd be mush. The contrast-based autofocus was atrocious and I'd frequently miss shots. I also decided I wanted to have blurrier backgrounds.

Phase 3:
I decided to be smart and test a few things rather than just buying another camera system, so I went back to the Canon 700D and realised that the 1080p it shot was soft because Canon did a poor job on their compression and codec, not because there was anything wrong with 1080p. So I installed Magic Lantern (a hack that lets you shoot RAW video) and bought a Sigma 18-35mm F1.8 lens. This allowed me to get sharp RAW video with Canon colour science and the Sigma was SHARP and gave blurry backgrounds.
But the setup was heavy, the files were prohibitively large, difficult to colour grade (and required conversion before you could open them in Resolve) and neither the camera nor lens had any stabilisation at all, so the images were shaky as hell.
I did, however, discover that I was ok with manually focusing the lens. It's a different aesthetic to AF, but it sort of feels 'human' in some way that I don't mind.

Phase 4:
As I had worked out that I don't mind manually focusing, I bought the GH5 and the SLR Magic 8mm F4, the Voigtlander 17.5mm F0.95, and the Helios 58mm F2 vintage prime. I later upgraded to the Laowa 7.5mm F2 and the Voigtlander 42.5mm F0.95, and then later again to the TTartisans 50mm F1.2. I kept the Rode mic.
I found this setup to be functional, relatively easy to use, have images I really liked, but was large and attracted attention out in public. I had also swapped from shooting 4K back to shooting 1080p as the implementation in the GH5 has several advantages, and I worked out I didn't need 4K (and neither do most people - 4K is mostly hype).
I also bought a GX85 as a second / backup camera, which along with the 14-42mm and 14mm F2.5 lenses could suffice if the GH5 got stolen/dropped/etc and could also do timelapses or record a second angle of something.

Phase 5:
On my last trip earlier this year to Korea I discovered that I actually preferred shooting with the GX85 and 14mm F2.5 lens because it's smaller and I can get more shots I like because I'm able to shoot without attracting as much attention. Having fast AF (only AF-S, not continuous) is also really nice!
I am now contemplating buying the 12-32mm pancake zoom lens to give a bit of flexibility to the setup. I also discovered that my iPhone 12 mini now shoots in 10-bit HDR and the images actually look really good if you know how to colour grade them properly, so that's my super-wide angle and camera for quick shots.

You know the funny part? Because I now know what I shoot, how I shoot it, and how to edit and colour grade, I could use and be happy with any of these cameras. I also own the BM original BMPCC (the 1080p one) and the BM Micro Cinema Camera, and if I had to use one of those exclusively from now on I could get by ok with them too, although they're slower to work with of course.

If you don't know if you want a Pocket 4K and gimbal or a GH5, then you are still many years away from knowing what equipment will work best for you. I recommend choosing a path that costs the least money.



thank you for your time writing all these.
i own a Vivo X80 pro mobile (which shoots in 8K, even though i shootin 4K) and has very good 10bit 4k video, it compares to iphone 14 pro.
I also own a gimbal and i have already did what you suggested. i have done a few travel videos and then edited them in resolve. i know what i like to shoot and how.

I was thinking these days that the size of the blackmagic 4k pocket camera is not too good for what i want. i many times shoot in crowded places so having something so big would be a pain.

I am thinking serioysly to buy a Sigma FP camera which is a real pocket size.
Two are my main conecrns for this... it is expensive and have to keeo somne money on the side and if i can use so large files since i would shoot in DNG RAW
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Re: Cinema pocket 4K lenses

PostFri Jun 09, 2023 1:57 pm

hamurabi wrote:
I was thinking these days that the size of the blackmagic 4k pocket camera is not too good for what i want. i many times shoot in crowded places so having something so big would be a pain.

I am thinking serioysly to buy a Sigma FP camera which is a real pocket size.
Two are my main conecrns for this... it is expensive and have to keeo somne money on the side and if i can use so large files since i would shoot in DNG RAW


Note that the Sigma fp doesn't record DNG raw in-camera, so you'd have to attach an external SSD. It also doesn't have any stabilization for video, at least not at a useful level, so you'd need to use a tripod or gimbal or be prepared for shaky footage. At least the Pocket 4K has the gyro option for stabilizing handheld footage at the expense of a crop in the image.

The original Pocket Cinema Camera is very small and records raw or Prores internally, but has lots of drawbacks including short battery life, and the very small sensor size and light weight makes handheld footage even more shaky.

I love shooting my Blackmagic cameras, but for travel and more casual projects I find that a good smartphone is liberating, fast, has good stabilization, and good-enough image quality (in good light), and allows me to capture moments that I'd never catch on my real cameras because they take too long to set up.
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Michel Rabe

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Re: Cinema pocket 4K lenses

PostFri Jun 09, 2023 2:18 pm

hamurabi wrote:
I was thinking these days that the size of the blackmagic 4k pocket camera is not too good for what i want. i many times shoot in crowded places so having something so big would be a pain.


I'm convinced that BMPCC4K + gimbal (you'll need something like the DJI Ronin RS3) will be MUCH too heavy and WAY too much micro-managing (power, focus ect) for you to enjoy using for travel films. In fact I think you will hate it. It's a combo I worked with quite a lot on commercial shoots. You don't want to carry this around the whole time, believe me. At least try out the combo before buying anything.
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Re: Cinema pocket 4K lenses

PostFri Jun 09, 2023 3:50 pm

Brad Hurley wrote:
hamurabi wrote:
Note that the Sigma fp doesn't record DNG raw in-camera, so you'd have to attach an external SSD. It also doesn't have any stabilization for video, at least not at a useful level, so you'd need to use a tripod or gimbal or be prepared for shaky footage. .


Yes i already know this.but sigma fp is very small ,also an external nvme ssd is smaller than a lighter and ,sincenthe size is so small i can use my gimbal for smartphone which can fit in a jacket pocket.
I thnk this setup is ok for travel
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Re: Cinema pocket 4K lenses

PostFri Jun 09, 2023 7:22 pm

hamurabi wrote:
Brad Hurley wrote:
Yes i already know this.but sigma fp is very small ,also an external nvme ssd is smaller than a lighter and ,sincenthe size is so small i can use my gimbal for smartphone which can fit in a jacket pocket.
I thnk this setup is ok for travel


I don't think that's going to work -- it's not the size that determines what gimbal you can use, but the weight. Most people recommend at least the Zhiyun Crane M3 for the Sigma fp. You have to account for the weight of the camera, the lens, the SSD, and anything else you add to the camera. I'm not aware of any smartphone gimbal that would able to handle all that weight.
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Re: Cinema pocket 4K lenses

PostFri Jun 09, 2023 9:08 pm

Brad Hurley wrote:Note that the Sigma fp doesn't record DNG raw in-camera,


Sure it does, I think the limitation is 8-bit in 4K and 12 bit for HD.

Good Luck
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Re: Cinema pocket 4K lenses

PostFri Jun 09, 2023 10:46 pm

Brad Harley, yes i know its the weight. My phone weights exactly as the sigma fp. Anyway,if not this gimbal then the smallest one for cameras would suffice.
Another thing that conerns me is the post with the DNG RAW.
Can i just ",transform' this raw file to rec 709 ?
Since i am new to DR will i be fine with this raw file?
,
Ps. Never used raw files yet
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Uli Plank

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Re: Cinema pocket 4K lenses

PostSat Jun 10, 2023 12:06 am

Your phone doesn’t add weight for lenses.

When will you travel? Why not go for the iPhone 15 in September and enjoy?
It‘ll do ProRes (but avoid RAW). Very easy to work with. Why wait for 15? I don’t expect it to have far better cameras, but finally it’ll have USB-C. The ‚Lightning‘ connector is too slow for serious video work.

Of course, any Android phone with a similar camera quality will serve too. But make sure that it can record CFR (that’s frame rate, not bit rate). According to another forum member, the iPhone finally can. Any phone with VFR will hurt in post.
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Re: Cinema pocket 4K lenses

PostSat Jun 10, 2023 9:21 am

hamurabi wrote:yes i know its the weight. My phone weights exactly as the sigma fp. Anyway,if not this gimbal then the smallest one for cameras would suffice.


I'm repeating myself here, but I don't think you have a realistic idea about the final weight and micro-management that come with a gimbal and cameras other than smartphones.

You need to put a lens on the Sigma, it will in most cases be heavier, or much heavier (lenses with fast apertures because you said you want to film in low light) than the cam itself. Even a small gimbal with a payload of 2kg like the DJI Mini will already be a pain to carry around with a balanced camera on top and manage all day. You might not see the small screen of your Sigma in bright daylight. Adding a sunshade probably won't work with the gimbal, so you may need to add a small high nit monitor, but now you're carrying even more weight and need to manage more batteries.

In the end you might be better off getting less "cinematic" images but much more and all the shots you want with a smartphone/gimbal setup. So you should really test any camera+lens+gimbal setup in person before buying.

There's a number of travel videographers with YouTube channels who talk about their gear. Maybe that will help you get an idea what would work for you.
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Re: Cinema pocket 4K lenses

PostSat Jun 10, 2023 1:16 pm

I am already doing my travels with smsrtphone and gimbal with iphone 14 pro quality.
Since i am always after the best image quality i would like to step up thats why i am thinking of a new setup with a small but very quality camera.
And i am already watching and others youtubers that travel and shot like me.

A setup with gimbal and camera of course would have more weight than the smartphone and i would carry a backpack with me.
Another thing is that My phone with the gimbal started to annoy me because my job wants me on the phone all day and i have all the time detach the phone to talk or send an sms and then attach it again to gimbal and it is very annoying
Last edited by hamurabi on Sat Jun 10, 2023 1:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cinema pocket 4K lenses

PostSat Jun 10, 2023 1:18 pm

hamurabi wrote:Another thing that conerns me is the post with the DNG RAW.
Can i just ",transform' this raw file to rec 709 ? Without any advanced skills
Since i am new to DR will i be fine with this raw file?
,
Ps. Never used raw files yet



Can somebody answer me this please?
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Uli Plank

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Re: Cinema pocket 4K lenses

PostSun Jun 11, 2023 3:27 am

With DNG sequences out of my UMP 4.6K it was very easy. Just choosing color science 4 and extended video in the RAW tab. But without a sample I can't tell for sure if the Sigma fp is the same.
No, an iGPU is not enough, and you can't use HEVC 10 bit 4:2:2 in the free version.

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Kye Leslie

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Re: Cinema pocket 4K lenses

PostMon Jun 12, 2023 5:02 am

hamurabi wrote:thank you for your time writing all these.
i own a Vivo X80 pro mobile (which shoots in 8K, even though i shootin 4K) and has very good 10bit 4k video, it compares to iphone 14 pro.
I also own a gimbal and i have already did what you suggested. i have done a few travel videos and then edited them in resolve. i know what i like to shoot and how.

I was thinking these days that the size of the blackmagic 4k pocket camera is not too good for what i want. i many times shoot in crowded places so having something so big would be a pain.

I am thinking serioysly to buy a Sigma FP camera which is a real pocket size.
Two are my main conecrns for this... it is expensive and have to keeo somne money on the side and if i can use so large files since i would shoot in DNG RAW


As others have said, you need to consider the whole package, rather than thinking about each element individually.

You mentioned that you know what you like to shoot and how, and that you have a Vivo X80 Pro, but that doesn't really tell us what you like to shoot because that phone has a wide range of lenses.

To give you an example of why you need to talk specifics, consider the following:
Let's imagine you decide you want the Pocket 4K. If you want to have an ultra-wide lens that shoots at F2, then you could fit the Laowa 7.5mm F2 lens. This lens is very light and so wouldn't be a problem to mount on a gimbal, but it is manual focus. If you're filming at F2 then it can focus from 3' to infinity, but if you want to focus closer than that then you'll need to adjust its focus. Do you do that during a shot? Maybe this isn't an issue for you.
Now let's imagine you decide you want the FP. If you want the same ultra-wide lens that shoots at F2, then you could get the Laowa 15mm F2 lens. This lens is over 3x the weight of the 7.5mm one, so might start being a problem for your gimbal. Also, focusing now becomes a problem, because at F2 the 15mm lens will focus from 12' to infinity, but if you want to focus on things closer than 12' then you need to adjust the focus. If you wanted to focus on objects 6' away, let's say, then objects between 4' and 11' will be in focus, but nearer and farther objects will be soft or blurry.
To compensate for the shallower focus of the 15mm you could stop it down to F4, which would give the same focus distances as the 7.5mm, but this would impact your low-light performance. To answer this you now need to compare the low-light performance of the FP and the Pocket 4K.

The above example shows that the camera choice impacts the lens choice, which impacts the weight of the setup and also the way that you use the camera. It doesn't stop there either, it keeps going.

Rather than me write pages and pages on how the dozen-or-more major aspects all interact with each other, let me summarise by saying this:

Everything effects everything else, either in large or small ways, and travel film-making requires compromising essentially every aspect. This is why people take years to get a setup that works for them.

To get better advice from us, you need to tell us exactly what you shoot and how you shoot it. Saying you shoot "travel" with the "Vivo X80 Pro" isn't that much more useful than saying you shoot "video" with a "camera".
Please list the shots you shoot, and for each one please tell us the focal length, focus distance, composition, lighting conditions, camera movement, weather conditions, and any other factors you can think of.
Then we can discuss the various trade-offs of potential setups.
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bobosola

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Re: Cinema pocket 4K lenses

PostMon Jun 12, 2023 9:03 pm

Brad Hurley wrote:
hamurabi wrote: I love shooting my Blackmagic cameras, but for travel and more casual projects I find that a good smartphone is liberating, fast, has good stabilization, and good-enough image quality (in good light), and allows me to capture moments that I'd never catch on my real cameras because they take too long to set up.
Very much agree. A high-end smartphone with a variable ND filter will let you capture a travel moment in a way that's pretty much impossible with a BMPCC4K. Will the result be as good as a BMPCC4K? No, of course not, but at least you won't miss the shot or mess up the focus or exposure due to rushing. From experience, I now use my BMPCC4K only for slow time shots, e.g. sunsets, scenery etc. where I can use a monopod for stability and portability and have the time to set up WB, focus and exposure. And don't forget how tricky it can be to manually focus a BMPCC4K in sunlight, especially on a gimbal without a follow focus device fitted.

Also, the problem with getting refused entry to famous landmarks while carrying pro-looking gear is very real - last time I got refused I had a BMPCC4K with a zoom lens, microphone and monopod. They made me take off the monopod and mic, and would also very likely refuse a gimbal big enough to carry a BMPCC4K.

Re actual lenses, I now carry only two: an Oly 12-100mm f/4.0 zoom and an Oly 17mm f/1.8 prime for general use and low light. But I find the 12-100 too heavy for just wandering around streets with, and it would be unbearable for long periods on a gimbal unless you are Arnie Schwarzenegger's bigger brother. I've also tried plenty of other lenses on recommendations from posts here or reviews, but often found they simply didn't give me the shots or framing that I like, or I just didn't like the feel of the controls. So I strongly recommend initially buying 2nd hand lenses from a reputable dealer, because you will certainly change your lens choices over time.
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