New BM Product Announcement on 9-14-23

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You brought up the FX3, and that's a Dslr. You try to DQ the Micro Studio Camera 4K G2, for not having enough buttons.
What buttons the, Dslr shaped, FX3 has that the Micro Studio Camera doesn't?

Come on, can you really not see the difference between a FX3 and Micro Studio G2? This defending of the current design is getting quite ridiculous. Are you a BMD bot?

Look at the Micro Studio camera G2. It has FIVE buttons in total. All of them positioned on the opposite side, AND opposite end to where a videographer would want them. It also has HDMI and SDI ports on both sides of the box leaving nowhere to grip the camera. You would need to add quite an elaborate cage to that to get the handle out of the way of all those ports while also leaving the buttons easily accessable. You have looked at it in detail before suggesting it or saying that I should be happy with it's design because it's a 'box' didnt you?

Again, making a box like camera doesn't mean you dont have to think about button placement or usability. Just making a box doesn't make it perfect. They are the words you are putting in my mouth.

People here really are blinkered.

Good luck to you all!

[
You brought up the FX3, and that's a Dslr. You try to DQ the Micro Studio Camera 4K G2, for not having enough buttons.
What buttons the, Dslr shaped, FX3 has that the Micro Studio Camera doesn't?

Come on, can you really not see the difference between a FX3 and Micro Studio G2? This defending of the current design is getting quite ridiculous. Are you a BMD bot?

Look at the Micro Studio camera G2. It has FIVE buttons in total. All of them positioned on the opposite side, AND opposite end to where a videographer would want them. It also has HDMI and SDI ports on both sides of the box leaving nowhere to grip the camera. You would need to add quite an elaborate cage to that to get the handle out of the way of all those ports while also leaving the buttons easily accessable. You have looked at it in detail before suggesting it or saying that I should be happy with it's design because it's a 'box' didnt you?

Again, making a box like camera doesn't mean you dont have to think about button placement or usability. Just making a box doesn't make it perfect. They are the words you are putting in my mouth.

People here really are blinkered.

Good luck to you all!

As others have stated, your argument constantly changing. With this very reply you are comparing the Box shape of the Micro Studio camera stating that there is no where the grip the camera, but you want a Pocket camera with a box shape? You hold the FX3 as a superior form factor but it's shaped like a DSLR like a Pocket 6K. The FX3 isn't box shaped. There are plenty of cages that exist that fit the Blackmagic Micro Cinema Camera as well as the Micro Studio Camera 4k.

The box people's problem is very easy to fix, just get 5 or 6 thousand dollars and buy something else. If you havent the money buy this, or just keep dreaming that someday you can make your project.
I have never seen anything like this done to another company in the world. They are begging bmd to quench their need because they either dont have the money or want something else. The camera works and does what is needed, I wont buy it because its not for me. this should be enough. Any thing else, their is a wish list forum. Ive been asking for AF and evf since forever, not seen it, so? I get a Sony. So many cry babies. Guys have dignity.

Ricardo marty

This is not the case, I have been a BMD user for years and would have liked a progression path after outgrowing the Pocket cameras. Blackmagic don’t provide one and I’m letting them know. There is a saying, if you don’t ask you don’t get”.
Does progress happen if people don’t express new ideas?
Calling people ‘cry babies is pretty darn childish on your part.

Better design doesn’t come from putting up and shutting up, it comes from discussion.

Forums are for discussion, if you can’t bring anything more to the table than ‘you're a cry baby’ or saying ‘your wrong’ without giving any reasons then what kind of discussion is that.

You're asking for something you can't articulate.

If we don't understand what you exacty want (as your argument is constantly changes), how is Blackmagic supposed to decipher what you want?

Nothing is stopping you from buying an URSA 12K.

The original Micro Studio had interface to attach all kind of controllers, not sure of the G2.

BMPCC%20.JPG

And it had B4 interface too

B4.jpg

The G2 does not have SBUS interface, but it has USB C to support at least the BMD Zoom and Focus Demand, and hopefully USB PTP as control done on this for Pocket camera using LoupeDeck controller (no computers involved) https://youtube.com/shorts/bPLudywBn6E? ... H7tWFCS4u3

But you are right, it does not make it FX3 kind of camera, it makes it something different as are all the cameras you are mentioning.

So is it the FX3 you want BMD make at 1/3 of the price?

The buttons on the Studio G2 are still in the wrong place for our use case, I’m not a fan of the micro4/3 size sensor. Been there done that. I don’t need B4. It has so many short comings, pushing it as a alternative to any other ‘Cine’ camera makes you look rather foolish im afraid.

I’ve said what I want numerous times. You just choose to hear the word ‘box box box’ and have a very narrow view of what a ‘box’ is. This is not F1!
I’ve also already told you why the FX3 works and what’s great about it and the fx6 despite them being different camera but you choose to ignore my comments. My argument hasn’t changed a bit. You're like someone that reads the bible but just chooses to read what you want to hear and take it for gospel.

How is BMD suppose to know? Well if they listened to anyone over the last few years and actually looked at how their camera were predominantly used (with a Vmount battery on the back blocking their screen) then they would know. I’m not paid by BMD to do their work for them. I actually know two DPs that WERE asked by BMD about the next camera and they suggested how to improve the form factor. Fell on deaf ears it seems

The new camera is not one third the price of its competition, it’s around half the price of an fx6 here in Australia but the FX6 has built in electronic ND, it has a handle with audio controls, it has an amazing AF system wether you use it or not, it has dual card slots, it has a removable and relocatable side handle, it has SDI and HDMI outputs, It has twice the buttons and dials that the Pockets have. With all these features, it is far better value for money than the new 6K FF which is relatively basic and bare in comparison.

And at only $700 more, you have the FX3. Again, il explain for your deaf ears that while it is a mirrorless design, it’s easy to transform into a box style camera. It also has a top handle with great audio controls, records 4 channels of audio, has great AF. The top handle is removable making it very small. and I can mount a micro vmount to it on the rear and the screen is still usable for navigating menus. Despite you saying that the Fx3 and the Pocket camera are the same, their form factors and ergonomics are completely different.

I said very early on that I’d be happy with more of a box like shaped camera that had a screen on top, a removable side grip and one or two NPF slots or the rear so that larger batteries could be used.

I'll repeat for the umpteenth time "I’d be happy with more of a box like shaped camera that had a screen on top, a removable side grip and one or two NPF slots or the rear so that larger batteries could be used." do you hear that now?

After that I said the FX3 works because I can put a battery on the back and the screen doesn't get blocked, , the grip is so small it doesn't need removing. The side grip on the F3 doesn’t need to be removable because it’s so small to start with. f BMD stll can't understand this then there is no hope. I really hope you don't work there!

You know what, arguing with people with completely blinkered views is pointless.

if the current form factor is so great, and the camera is such great value for money then why do you barely see ANYONE using them compared to other cameras?

[... Had the new 6KFF had a better form factor and 10bit codec, I would have gone for that instead but it’s a non option now...

Good you found something that meets your needs. When you imply the BMCC6K doesn’t have a 10bit codec, I’m confused by what you mean. All currently BMD cameras have BRAW 12bit log recording. Did you really mean to say 10bit ProRes? It would s unfortunate for many that ProRes isn’t available for the BMCC6K. Thanks for any clarification.

Most productions or clients don’t want me to hand them 12Bit BRAW files. They want something like ProRes or XAVC-I. As great as Resolve is, many post/ production houses are using Avid.

The new camera fits less workflows now due to the omission of a 10bit codec. That’s why Arri and Red give you the option of RAW or a 10bit codec.

BRAW is great, Resolve is great but people want what they want to work with their workflows and for now, BRAW isn’t it.

Converting 12bit raw to any other format (10bit 422 444) is simple, quick, and probably provides higher quality files than can be produced in camera. The process is practically lossless with the correct file format.

Converting 12bit raw to any other format (10bit 422 444) is simple, quick, and probably provides higher quality files than can be produced in camera. The process is practically lossless with the correct file format.

Almost 100% of short form jobs go like this:

Shoot and data wrangle on the day to two or three SSD's and give the client the footage. While the last card is being wrangled, I am packing up the rest of my kit and production are checking their watch every few minutes as they want to get out of there and go home. Neither they or I want to be converting 12bit RAW to 10bit files at this time.

12Bit RAW is great for any self shooter that edits their own footage and doesn;t have to deal with anyone else. Buy a Pocket as a starter camera, get good at shooting and then you might pick up a few jobs shooting for others, you will then be left needing a new camera because your client doesn't want BRAW. what do you go to? you need to leave BMD because they don't cater to those stepping up.
Thats fine if BMD doesnt want to cater to me, (I had no qualms about switching to Sony and now that I finally have, am actually quite surprised how much I am enjoying their cameras) but it seems like a huge missed opportunity to me.

This is total nonsense "a mirrorless design, it’s easy to transform into a box style camera." It would be a new camera completely and huge effort. also the inexpensive BMD cameras can be best recognised from their controls and body material. Good mechanical controls are expensive.

Again, you are hearing what you want to hear. What I said is, the FX3 is already so small that the body is easily adaptable. The screen moves out of the way in its current form factor that a vlock battery can be put on the back, the screen flipped to the side and the touch screen used to control the camera in the same place as where the FX6 or most other cameras would have their buttons. Thats why it works well. Have a look at the picture I found (attached), this is the setup im talking about. It puts most of the controls in the same place as an FX6, C300MKIII, Kinefinity etc etc. It's already quite 'box' like as I can put a battery on the back and all the main controls are on the side . See the attachment. What the photo doesn't show is a 5" monitor on top but thats easy for anyone to add. I'd be happier with an FX6's boxier style body but this also works well.

Yes, good mechanical controls might be expensive but the FX3 has many more buttons and dials compared to the BMD Pocket series plus is has Autofocus, dual card slots, can record four channels of audio, a top handle with MORE mechanical controls and only costs $700 USD more than the 6kFF! In total, the FX3 has around 30 buttons and switches, 6 dials (including audio level adjusters) a touch screen AND a joystick!! I'd say considering this, the 6K FF really isn't very good value for money at all!

So you're saying BMD is selling B-cameras?!

Why do you continue to attribute comments to me that I haven't made?

JB

… And at only $700 more, you have the FX3.

I’m not familiar with prices in Australia if that’s what you’re comparing. We usually start with US prices and then adjust for other currencies and countries:

B&H Photo

SONY FX6 $5998 USD
SONY FX3 $3898 USD
BMCC6K $2595 USD

… And at only $700 more, you have the FX3.

I’m not familiar with prices in Australia if that’s what you’re comparing. We usually start with US prices and then adjust for other currencies and countries:

B&H Photo

SONY FX6 $5998 USD
SONY FX3 $3898 USD
BMCC6K $2595 USD

Sorry, after looking again, its actually closer to $850USD....still, a small difference considering the feature set difference.

… And at only $700 more, you have the FX3.

I’m not familiar with prices in Australia if that’s what you’re comparing. We usually start with US prices and then adjust for other currencies and countries:

B&H Photo

SONY FX6 $5998 USD
SONY FX3 $3898 USD
BMCC6K $2595 USD

Sorry, after looking again, its actually closer to $850USD....still, a small difference considering the feature set difference.

In the US (for example, at B&H):

$3,898 (FX3)
-2,595 (BMCC6K)
_______
$1,303 (difference in price)

Cheers!

This is a truely horrid design. a handle on the left and nothing to grip on the right?

I don't know about you but me and most people I see operating cameras hold the camera in our right hand and focus pull with our left. Can you see where this design falls short?

Again, a truely horrid design and due to the buttons and ports being on the far side, hard to put the handle where you actually need it.

This is a truely horrid design. a handle on the left and nothing to grip on the right?

I don't know about you but me and most people I see operating cameras hold the camera in our right hand and focus pull with our left. Can you see where this design falls short?

Again, a truely horrid design and due to the buttons and ports being on the far side, hard to put the handle where you actually need it.

I knew you were going to quote that one. You didn't say a word about the SmallRig design.
Your entire argument doesn't make sense.
Here's another cage that fits the camera. Your narrative doesn't fit.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/9p8vvTVT3ew

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/CVDXZRJiTDw

I knew you were going to quote that one. You didn't say a word about the SmallRig design.
Your entire argument doesn't match sense.

I think you’ll find it’s YOUR argument that doesn’t make sense!

You provide two examples which I pull you up on and you say ‘oh, I knew you would criticise that one’. You provided it bud.

The Smallrig cage still doesn’t change the fact that the buttons are on the far side of the camera. How do I control audio with those little four buttons while recording? The audio adjusts in steps? So I would have to press it 20 - 30 times to turn up the level in noticeable incidents?

Dude, again, a box is not a box is not a box. You’re saying that because I want a boxed shape camera like an fx6 then I should be happy with a Micro G2?

The micro camera can be rigged many ways. The buttons are irritating, but only needed for setup.

There is few things I have been requesting during the past 7 years regarding the micro camera.

1. Video Assist should be able to control it.

2. The SBUS interface is pretty useless, it should have HW serial interface, for two way communication with the camera for easy integration. (the same protocol SDI and BT uses would be fine)

3. The Serial interface should include commands for the camera buttons, to navigate the menus with a separate controller.

Now looking the Micro Studio G2, I am afraid I have wasted my time trying to communicate this. I hope I am wrong and it has at least USB PTP to fully control it. And sad if they have dropped the B4 lens control.

I don't understand why the new Cinema Camera 6K, with its "all new" electronics, doesn't include 4K HDMI out. Blackmagic offers 4K video output from many of their other devices, including some very inexpensive ones. So the lack of 4K HDMI out on the new camera really stands out. For example, for 4K HDMI monitoring when desired, or external ProRes recording on a BM Video Assist. Obviously, not everyone needs 4K HDMI video out, but many do, and if it's cheap to add, why isn't it a feature of the camera?

Other than that, I think the new BMCC6K is quite nice.

Full frame is another tool for cinematography. You can get closer to the actor without the distortion of wider focal lenses, and you can get the real character from a full frame lenses with vignette and lack of resolution in the corners.
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All this can be done with a S35 cam, even with an MFT camera.

Do you mean that you can get the same field of view with focal reducers? Because that’s true but it’s also a different image texture. I have 3 metabones speedbooster (0.58x, 0.64x and 0,71x) and the magic booster for the pocket 6k, and I’m very happy that know I have the option to not use them and get a wider field of view with the same focal distances without adding a glass between the lens and the sensor, and I’m not saying this is better or worst, it’s just another option that we have and I think that’s a good thing for all of us.


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I don’t mean using focal reducers but since most people look at solving problems with technology, I guess that’s one acceptable way to get a wider field of view. I was thinking more of physically adjusting for the perspective and composition to obtain the look with a S35 or MFT format. Tools is one way, technique is another. Both can deliver to achieve the results you want. My 2 cents.

OMG… there’s so much to read here with some post TLTR. I need to go back and find that link Dan created regarding the RS trick. That’s the only useful info I can obtain from this thread.

LOL!

OMG… there’s so much to read here with some post TLTR. I need to go back and find that link Dan created regarding the RS trick. That’s the only useful info I can obtain from this thread.

Here:

viewtopic.php?p=874681#p874681

So an update. I shot with a FAST shutter to kill motion blur. Used the gyro stab 1st to kill RS and then compounded all the clips and ran the regular stabilizers (transform) on the compound clip. Brought it into fusion and ran an "optical flow" node into a "vector blur" node to get the motion blur back and my goodness. it looks amazing. The handheld shot looks almost like a global shutter on a gimble or tripod. Im usually not much of a "stabilizer addict" but im blown away with what this looks like. ran the final through a CST in color page into the cineon film look LUT in resolve and it's just gorgeous. its a good day

viewtopic.php?p=874652#p874652

I actually just tested this on a BMPCC6k pro. I did a few whip pans and I cannot believe it. using "gyro" stabilization the RS is almost completely gone, like 99 percent better. I only set the stab amount at like .008 for very little cropping, just to test if "more is better" and it works at that low of a setting. I cannot believe I didnt think about this before but I figured it would not make a difference on RS at all.. thought that it was just for XY stability. Im actually floored. Experimented with BRAW 6K with 180 shutter at 24 FPS, 50mm prime lens.

**EDIT** just a quick edit to this post for those who are new to the gyro stab. you MUST shoot BRAW and if you're using a zoom, you MUST input your focal length setting in the BMPCC that you'll be using. If you zoom to a new focal length, re input the lens data. Also no IS lenses. turn everything off.

So you're saying BMD is selling B-cameras?!

Why do you continue to attribute comments to me that I haven't made?

JB

I didn't even once. Whatever. This thread turned way too emotional.

Cmon. I never said it was an A camera.

People asked for a ND filter for the Cinema Camera 6K. Maybe this can be used in the Cinema Camera 6K Pro.

LC-Tec Explains Concept for 4x5.65” Electronic Variable ND Filter – First Look

my thoughts exactly. Lot of crying going on in here.

GUS!!! I love Psych! I miss that show. Originally shot on Super 16mm Film, and then switched to digital and shot ARRI ALEXA for the later season.

I've fallen off on this thread. Too much to read through. But I've been convincing myself more about things I love about the camera. Would I like sensor readout to be faster? Yes. But, knowing that's a weakness means I am aware enough to work around it.

Again, I can't wait for an URSA Mini Pro to have a sensor like this and bring more capabilities.

… I can't wait for an URSA Mini Pro to have a sensor like this and bring more capabilities.

Tim, perhaps you have a typo there. I think you meant to say “URSA Micro Pro” eh?

… I can't wait for an URSA Mini Pro to have a sensor like this and bring more capabilities.

Tim, perhaps you have a typo there. I think you meant to say “URSA Micro Pro” eh?

My mistake, a full URSA LINEUP: URSA Pro LF, URSA Mini Pro LF, & URSA Micro Pro LF.

Some superb low light footage from Matteo Bertoli:

I'm still going to wait and see whatever comes of a Gen2 version of this product, but if I were starting out all over again today I'd be more tempted to pick this up.

How do I unsubscribe from a thread?

[quote="Chris Cronin"]Some superb low light footage from Matteo Bertoli…[quote]

Fine test under some difficult shooting situations. But please, someone let Matteo know about DaVinci Resolve / Edit or Fairlight / Voice Isolation which likely would have removed all the ambient noise.

Some superb low light footage from Matteo Bertoli…

Fine test under some difficult shooting situations. But please, someone let Matteo know about DaVinci Resolve / Edit or Fairlight / Voice Isolation which likely would have removed all the ambient noise.

hahah, someone actually did in the comments. He had been too busy with work lately so didn't know about the feature. He said he would check it out next time.

I'll say this... Someone else mentioned it, but I don't care to scroll back and find out who (sorry).

BMD has a pretty good grasp on the "ALL-IN-ONE" cinema camera market. There really aren't any other "cinema" cameras that have everything you need to shoot something in one package.

I think that's worth something.

I think the first rigging accessory for a BMD user is to compensate for the poor battery life. The issue is, at that point, why not go ahead and add a monitor (probably already have one) and a handle.

Anyway... To keep it short...

ALL-IN-ONE has value, but I think it's a starting point for beginners to semi-pros.

… I can't wait for an URSA Mini Pro to have a sensor like this and bring more capabilities.

Tim, perhaps you have a typo there. I think you meant to say “URSA Micro Pro” eh?

My mistake, a full URSA LINEUP: URSA Pro LF, URSA Mini Pro LF, & URSA Micro Pro LF.

holy crap, that would be amazing. All with OLPFs, higher frame rates, and CFexpress!

Are these out in the wild yet? Saw something from Matteo Bertoli that the firmware on his camera isn't final, so I'm assuming the reveal was a paper launch with units to start trickling in over the next few weeks.

Although some patricians received the cameras for evaluation, the plebeians need to wait for shipping to commence in October.

Thought so, thanks Rick.

Will be interesting to see what people do with this camera. I want to see more varied use cases putting the sensor through its paces, and ultimately a lab test.

I noticed one of the big reviewers of the new camera won't do a side by side comparison between it and the current model because it's a beta firmware. Take from that whatever you will but if I had to bet side by side they're finding there is no difference. We'll see. Hope I'm wrong, an upgrade is always nice but why else have we seen no comparison footage?

… Will be interesting to see what people do with this camera. I want to see more varied use cases putting the sensor through its paces, and ultimately a lab test.

CineD is eager to test, but as far as I know, they had not received this BMCC6K prior to IBC2023. There may be other sites that also could provide a thoroughly objective and detailed review. I’m hoping it’s a winner for BMD and when production models ship, we shall see a lot of quality information and footage.

… if I had to bet side by side they're finding there is no difference. We'll see. Hope I'm wrong, an upgrade is always nice but why else have we seen no comparison footage?

No difference? Well we are so accustomed to see our lenses on mFT and APS-C sized sensors, I think the ‘full frame’ sensor will make quite a difference in at least two ways: the increased field of view and the different characteristics the lenses will reveal (could be a positive difference in the look or could be a negative difference if sharpness and illumination falloff is severe. I don’t expect to see the same image. Maybe more lenses will behave like a Christie look that intentionally focuses our attention toward the central area of the frame. I do expect the BMCC6K will have a different aesthetic with slightly better dynamic range but match the colour science gen 5 we already have.

… if I had to bet side by side they're finding there is no difference. We'll see. Hope I'm wrong, an upgrade is always nice but why else have we seen no comparison footage?

No difference? Well we are so accustomed to see our lenses on mFT and APS-C sized sensors, I think the ‘full frame’ sensor will make quite a difference in at least two ways: the increased field of view and the different characteristics the lenses will reveal (could be a positive difference in the look or could be a negative difference if sharpness and illumination falloff is severe. I don’t expect to see the same image. Maybe more lenses will behave like a Christie look that intentionally focuses our attention toward the central area of the frame. I do expect the BMCC6K will have a different aesthetic with slightly better dynamic range but match the colour science gen 5 we already have.

Yes the crop factor will be different.

Does anyone know if the Micro Studio Camera 4K G2 has Bluetooth and gyro stabilisation?

I'm interested in putting one in a hard to reach spot where I am hoping I can start/stop from my phone. And gyro is just brillaint.

From what I heard, No on Bluetooth but yes on gyro.

I hope it's NOT true the new Micro Studio Camera 4K G2 doesn't have Bluetooth! Wireless control of this camera would be super useful.

I'm looking forward to reading the user manual for the camera when it's available.

Does anyone know if the Micro Studio Camera 4K G2 has Bluetooth and gyro stabilisation?

I'm interested in putting one in a hard to reach spot where I am hoping I can start/stop from my phone. And gyro is just brillaint.

From what I heard, No on Bluetooth but yes on gyro.

I hope it's NOT true the new Micro Studio Camera 4K G2 doesn't have Bluetooth! Wireless control of this camera would be super useful.

I'm looking forward to reading the user manual for the camera when it's available.

I hope I am wrong. The Tilta Nano 2 would be great with this camera.