BMCC6K Facts and Findings

The Pocket 6k LF only shoot in BRAW this means if you want to take stills there is no CinemaDNG option

Matteo testing BMCC6K Full Frame + LEICA R Lens

Thanks, Dan. Very good video that emphasizes how important it is to be aware of image circle limitations when shooting with larger sensors, especially BMCC6K Open Gate. Your Super 35 lenses need to use a crop of the new LF sensor. Even some ‘full frame’ cine lenses may fail to cover the Open Gate as it presents a greater area required for full coverage. Still lenses designed for LF 3:2 of course should be fine.

. Even some ‘full frame’ cine lenses may fail to cover the Open Gate as it presents a greater area required for full coverage. Still lenses designed for LF 3:2 of course should be fine.

I had a 24-105 L mount IS Lumix zoom and at 24mm there was a little fall off in the very corners.

Even native L mount lenses don't always cover.

JB

The stupidest decision was to remove ProRes. Now this camera is full frame only if you shoot in 6K. This means now you have to spend twice as much space... In 4K the camera shoots with crop - it's epic...

Flo shared a new video comparing the similarities and differences of the new BMCC6k to the 6K Pro.

Here it is.

Kinda pointless comparison if you don't actually test stuff like noise, dynamic range, detail etc.

More SUNSET and LOW LIGHT BMCC6K footage from Matteo.

Has anyone had to chance to see how the new camera cuts with the 6k Pro in terms of colour?

Currently using an URSA G1 and a 6k Pro and much as I've always loved the Ursa footage I spend quite a bit of time in the grade having to eyeball things to get a decent match between the cameras. Was considering getting rid of the Ursa and buying a second 6k Pro to make my life easier, but theoretically the new camera and 6k Pro could be a great combo if the colour is a closer match.

Thanks.

Rick - I know that we were both wondering about the overall dynamic range of the new camera compared to the past Pocket 6K cams. Like you I was surprised to see the the full frame sensor listed as just 13 stops. But I can't help but wonder if you can't pull more of the shadows with this new full frame sensor than with the previous smaller sensors.

I understand that every sensor is it own animal so this may not be an apple to apples comparison. But here is a dynamic range test done on cameras of different sensor sizes from Medium Format down to Micro 4/3. And it seems pretty clear that the larger sensors have much cleaner shadows and seem like more useable dynamic range. So would this not be the case for the full frame blackmagic sensor vs. their previous models? Or am I mistaken?

The dynamic range portion starts at 8:12.

Actually the first 8 minutes that compares the difference in detail based on sensor size is interesting and potentially applicable as well when thinking about BMCC 6k.

Yes, that does make sense. The 13 stops is actually 13.5 stops according to BMD, but the CineD test will likely be what most people rely upon as a comparison to ther cameras.

There is an argument that the larger sensor open gate with a full-frame lens receives more light than a smaller sensor using the same lens. On a smaller sensor a lot of light falls outside the sensor area if the lens image circle is much larger than the sensor. Although each photosite (in the general argument) that gets light receives the same amount of light, it may help the larger sensor when the image is downscaled. It’s debatable.

The photosites in the BMCC6K have a much greater surface area to collect more light than the BMPCC6K depending upon the electronics so it should give better colour and contrast.

When downscaling though, say from 6K to 4K, you likely will get more detail than if you only shot in 4K. Now the BMPCC6K and the BMCC6K both have that advantage over the BMPCC4K. But does the larger sensor have the largest advantage due to larger photosites and information cornering a larger area?

It won’t be long until we see very informative tests comparing the two BMD cameras with full sensor recording and downscaling.

Looking at zoom lenses for the BMCC6K that cover focal lengths similar to the Fujinon Premista 28-100mm T2.9 PL mount which I could only afford if I won a lottery:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1473135-REG

Which decent and affordable cine zooms for large format sensors are people planning to use on the BMCC6K?

Looking at zoom lenses for the BMCC6K that cover focal lengths similar to the Fujinon Premista 28-100mm T2.9 PL mount which I could only afford if I won a lottery:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1473135-REG

Which decent and affordable cine zooms for large format sensors are people planning to use on the BMCC6K?

I don't know about affordable but when I was shooting with my Canon 5DMk2 at events I use my Canon EF 70-200 f2.8 L IS MkII but never seem right on a Super 35 crop.

A chilling reality or a golden opportunity: the Wikipedia article on L-Mount lenses doesn’t list a single cine lens! My definition of cine ideally includes constant aperture and the only reasonably useful L-mount zoom lens with constant aperture is the Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 DG DN Art which is a photography lens. Disaster or opportunity? The lack of cine lenses may impede the progress of L-Mount camera adoption.

The only reasonable options at this time are L-mount adapters for other lens mounts such as the Leica PL to L-mount or Metabones… lots of adapters.

The most interesting concept including a (not ideal so use at your own risk) variable ND filter as John Brawley has pointed out is the MOFAGE POCO:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1775445-REG

[quote="rick.lang"]The lack of cine lenses may impede the progress of L-Mount camera adoption.


It is a fair point about both availability and affordability when it comes to full frame cine zoom lenses. I suppose we can't be sure, but I would think that lens companies will start making L mount options available in the near future. It would seem like that would make sense.

I believe you can order these with L mount adaptors.

https://laowacine.com/product/laowa-ran ... om-series/

I would be surprised Zeiss don’t do an L mount as part of their IMS system of interchangeable mounts for their zooms and primes.

JB

I believe you can order these with L mount adaptors.

JB

A number are available:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/products ... %3Aarri-pl

Bob

I believe you can order these with L mount adaptors.

JB

A number are available:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/products ... %3Aarri-pl

Bob

Sure.

I meant native adaptors that covert the lens.

So Zeiss CP for example have an IMS or interchangeable mount system.

It’s not an adaptor. It’s a native mount.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... t_for.html


JB

Thanks, John, you can get those Laowa zooms with an optional $200 L-mount. I guess they didn’t show up in my simple search since they are considered PL-mount. The new wide angle zoom and the current medium zoom would suit my needs I believe.

With the native L-mount on the BMCC6K and the PL-mount for my UM4.6K and BMPCC4K, that could be a useful mix.

The unreleased Laowa 16-30mm zoom for large format has an angle of view basically identical to the focal lengths of my Super 35 Tokina 11-20mm. That’s good. Both T 2.9.

I am surprised to see the dynamic range of this new camera being the same as before. I wasn't holding out any hope for a real box form factor (still baffles me why BMD keeps ignoring this, would make gimbal operation and v-mount battery attachments so much easier) but that was a bit of a surprise. Dynamic range is not improved. And, BMD spent a LOT more time talking of their new Apple app than this camera in their presentation too.

As long as there are no serious tests with either a Xyla or proper exposure bracketing out, I don't trust dynamic value claims – good or bad.

CineD latitude tests and more on the BMPCC6K performed in 2019. We need to see the BMCC6K results.

https://www.cined.com/blackmagic-pocket ... tter-more/

“The only little drawback with the Pocket 6K that I see from the lab test is the rolling shutter value which is a bit on the higher side – given the lack of internal stabilization handheld shots are risky business with this camera.”

No mention of applying gyro to stabilize the shot or compensate for the rolling shutter!

Dynamic range at ISO 400 is comparable to the BMPCC4K but at ISO 3200 the range of the BMPCC6K is a stop less than BMPCC4K. However the latitude results of the BMPCC6K have a stunning recovery from four stops underexposed! So perhaps no real need for the ISO 3200 range? A much more neutral image too.

Edited to correctly reference the BMPCC6K, not BMCC6K!

I’m confused - they say they’re testing the bmPcc6K. They also link to that at B&H. Is that just a typo? I thought we were awaiting results for the bmcc6k.

Oh! The above link is wrong. I don’t see a test for the BMCC6K on their site. Am I missing something?

I just noticed my error before reading your message. Apologies this was a test done in 2019 on the BMPCC6K not the BMCC6K!

[quote="rick.lang"]CineD latitude tests and more on the BMPCC6K performed in 2019. We need to see the BMCC6K results.

https://www.cined.com/blackmagic-pocket ... tter-more/

Rick, there is still some interesting info to be gleaned from the Pocket 6k review when they compare it with the 4k. Even though they have very similar numbers in the dynamic range test when you look at the latitude test and the information recovered from 3, 4, 5 stops under they behave very differently. And the 6k offers a lot more in that regard. In that sense the 6K sensor does feel like it offers a more despite the similar numbers. So it will be interesting to see how the new BMCC 6k full frame sensor will compare to the previous pockets cameras in this regard.

Dan, there may be room to improve the latitude and especially a stop more for the dynamic range of images using 3200 ISO.

I really like decisions that BMD made in designing the BMCC6K. Having that Super35 window that truly is 4K Super35 4:3 is excellent. Having fat photosites in 6K 3:2 is more than excellent. Plus I think it shows the future cameras will be L-mount and record on CFexpress. They’re moving on from some great cameras to delivering even better cameras as the BMCC6K begins a new era 10 years after it all began with the BMCC.

Bravo. Encore.

Here's a fact I can report to be based on the Pocket 6K Pro and Pocket 6K... not LED Volume ready. Screen flicker and banding issues due to no Genlock. We used the P6KPro as a B-Cam yesterday for a few shots, but mainly insert shots with less wall because that flicker was bad.

So the BMCC6K will be fine for travel, on location, and in studio work with built sets. But don't use it with an LED Volume.

Here's a fact I can report to be based on the Pocket 6K Pro and Pocket 6K... not LED Volume ready. Screen flicker and banding issues due to no Genlock. We used the P6KPro as a B-Cam yesterday for a few shots, but mainly insert shots with less wall because that flicker was bad.

So the BMCC6K will be fine for travel, on location, and in studio work with built sets. But don't use it with an LED Volume.

That seems like a reasonable compromise for a camera at this price point.

Pr AV TV did a short breakdown of the BMCC6k. To be honest there is not much new info in this video. But there are two things that might be worth sharing.

1. Seems like the cameras are getting into resellers hands now.

2. Rick - There is some test footage with one of the Laowa Ranger Zoom lenses that John mentioned can come in L-Mount. I believe it is the 28-75mm T2.9. So nothing beats trying them for yourself, but it does give you a peak at them together.

Thanks for the sample Laowa Ranger 28-75mm footage, Dan; looked decent but not a comprehensive use case. A good start.

I’ve used the ranger zooms. They are decent, especially for the price.

I don’t have any footage I’m allowed to share.

If I was to buy them I’d just get them in PL and adapt. I don’t see a lot of point in getting native L for mechanical focus and iris lenses.

Genlock would be good but it’s not a prerequisite for volume work. I’ve done volume work with the 6k and 12k without genlock.

JB

I'm currently rolling with a 12k OLPF, a G2 (that I planned to retire in favor of the 12k), and a Canon C70, usually bringing the C70 as a b-cam and for low light situations. Used to have an S1H and loved it but thought a C70 might be nicer for corporate work with ND and autofocus, but 6 months in I still just default to the Ursa Minis cause I'd rather shoot off the shoulder and relegate the C70 to low light situations and b-cam. Thinking about ditching the C70 and G2 to have this pair with my 12k as B-cam and to cover situations where the 12k can't handle the light levels.

For Pocket 6k Pro users, do people like the extended battery grip, or are most folks rigging them out more? I'd rather have one be a minimal build but I'm a little concerned about power on interviews.

Also curious about how people feel with them handheld. With that nice big screen I could get away without rigging a monitor, but they're such a goofy shape I'm not sure how useable they are handheld, especially with a big honking battery grip?

I’ve used the ranger zooms. They are decent, especially for the price...

If I was to buy them I’d just get them in PL and adapt...

JB

Makes sense. But if a quandary at the moment. For the theatrical and music videos that are most of my work, the lens that comes closest to the angles of view I shoot is the Fujinon XK Cabrio 20-120mm although that would be restricted to shooting in a 4K window on the BMCC6K.

The Laowa (and DZOfilm Cata Ace) needs two zooms to cover that range but in a theatrical performance I can only change a zoom in the intermission which would be odd. Or record two performances with the two different zooms… I’ve done that before and you can’t perfectly cut between the two tracks as there’s always a blocking difference that is apparent.

I’ve been spoiled by that Fujinon 20x7.8 B4 zoom that I always use on the UM4.6K shooting 2K and upscaling in Resolve (works well). I was hoping to find a single lightweight zoom with constant aperture and less than T4 that could get me close to the Fujinon XK Cabrio since matching the 20x7.8 isn’t feasible.

Nothing wrong with the BMCC6K and my primes which I use on the BMPCC4K, but my Super35 zooms would require a smaller sensor window. A different story if I was shooting a narrative or documentary of course. Then I’d go with the Laowa Rangers PL at this point.

CineD latitude tests and more on the BMPCC6K performed in 2019. We need to see the BMCC6K results.

https://www.cined.com/blackmagic-pocket ... tter-more/

“The only little drawback with the Pocket 6K that I see from the lab test is the rolling shutter value which is a bit on the higher side – given the lack of internal stabilization handheld shots are risky business with this camera.”

No mention of applying gyro to stabilize the shot or compensate for the rolling shutter!


Edited to correctly reference the BMPCC6K, not BMCC6K!

BMD didn't release the gyro stabilization feature until like 2021-2022, so it won't mention the stabilization feature.

Ah, yes! Thanks.

The Cooke SP3 Mirrorless Primes are interchangeable mounts and they have L mount .

https://cookeoptics.com/lens/sp3/
Focal length range: 25mm / 32mm / 50mm / 75mm /100mm
Format: Full Frame (S35 compatible)
Mount: Interchangable: E (fitted) RF (supplied when available), L (available as accessory), M (available early 2024)
Speed: T2.4
Form: Small and lightweight yet finished in tough anodised shell
Scale: Dual Focus scales
Compatibility: Matched to Panchro/i Classic series

Why did I dislike the CVP results where the lenses were shooting outdoors in the sunlight? Are the new lenses too contrasty or is it the Raptor camera and post workflow?

I thought the images were video game harsh and the highlight rolloff too quick and they didn’t seem to have the Cooke look where the centre area is quite sharp but the sharpness gradually is lost towards the frame edge. These don’t seem to be cinematic.

Why did I dislike the CVP results where the lenses were shooting outdoors in the sunlight? Are the new lenses too contrasty or is it the Raptor camera and post workflow?

I thought the images were video game harsh and the highlight rolloff too quick and they didn’t seem to have the Cooke look where the centre area is quite sharp but the sharpness gradually is lost towards the frame edge. These don’t seem to be cinematic.

That seems to be the color science. They were shooting on a RED & Canon.

Awful. Good to know.

On the Cooke SP3 page they list that these lenses have Compatibility: Matched to Panchro/i Classic series.

https://cookeoptics.com/lens/sp3/

I know that often Cooke lenses are paired with better cameras. So hopefully it is the camera instead of the lenses accounting for that look. It would be really cool to have a smaller, cheaper Cooke cinema lens to use.

I trust the lenses more than the CVP’s camera choice. And whoever edited their video isn’t shooting cinema with the Raptor. Cooke lenses define (narrative) cinematic look for many people.

I’ve used the ranger zooms. They are decent, especially for the price...

If I was to buy them I’d just get them in PL and adapt...

JB

Makes sense. But if a quandary at the moment. For the theatrical and music videos that are most of my work, the lens that comes closest to the angles of view I shoot is the Fujinon XK Cabrio 20-120mm although that would be restricted to shooting in a 4K window on the BMCC6K...

I’ve watched several videos looking at a suitable zoom for the BMCC6K. This one uses the Fujinon XK 20-120 on the UMP12K. Many of the reviewers are sold on the flexibility of covering these focal lengths with only one lens.

I’ve used the ranger zooms. They are decent, especially for the price.

I don’t have any footage I’m allowed to share.

If I was to buy them I’d just get them in PL and adapt. I don’t see a lot of point in getting native L for mechanical focus and iris lenses.

Genlock would be good but it’s not a prerequisite for volume work. I’ve done volume work with the 6k and 12k without genlock.

JB

Interesting. Maybe it’s the LED Volume we’re working on, but in order to not get flicker on the P6K camera sensors we had to have them at 144.1° Shutter Angle. But we still had banding/screen tearing with tilting on the wall. Granted even with Genlock the UMPG2 got that Banding/Screen Tearing with tilts occasionally.

My other issue was getting the wall from 8-bit to 10-bit, but there seemed to be a brightness level problem where the wall would only be 25% brightness at 10-bit.

Suffice it to say, the tech has limitations that are frustrating. Yet, camera related global shutter seems to be a major answer, and Genlock feels necessary to avoid flicker if shooting 180° Shutter.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A new video from Matteo Bertoli shooting handheld with the BMCC6k around Córdoba.

Hello. Are there plans to add 6K 16:9 50fps to the camera?

I shoot a lot at 50fps on the BMPCC6K camera (((( I was upset that the BMCC6K only has 48fps, why couldn’t they add another 2 fps, is it really that difficult.

If the firmware comes out with the addition of 50fps, I will definitely buy this camera.

Does 4K DCI have a crop factor?

SIGMA 70-200mm F2.8 DG DN OS
Launch: December, 2023
Available mounts: L-Mount, Sony E-mount

Combined with the SIGMA 14-24mm F2.8 DG DN | Art and the SIGMA 24-70mm F2.8 DG DN | Art, SIGMA’s three zoom lenses for full-frame mirrorless cameras with a bright F2.8 constant aperture cover a wide range of focal lengths.

https://press.sigmaphoto.com/product/10 ... dn-sports/

Here's a fact I can report to be based on the Pocket 6K Pro and Pocket 6K... not LED Volume ready. Screen flicker and banding issues due to no Genlock. We used the P6KPro as a B-Cam yesterday for a few shots, but mainly insert shots with less wall because that flicker was bad.

So the BMCC6K will be fine for travel, on location, and in studio work with built sets. But don't use it with an LED Volume.

Which camera did you get good results out of again? The micro cinema camera?

Here's a fact I can report to be based on the Pocket 6K Pro and Pocket 6K... not LED Volume ready. Screen flicker and banding issues due to no Genlock. We used the P6KPro as a B-Cam yesterday for a few shots, but mainly insert shots with less wall because that flicker was bad.

So the BMCC6K will be fine for travel, on location, and in studio work with built sets. But don't use it with an LED Volume.

Which camera did you get good results out of again? The micro cinema camera?

Our A-Cam was the UMPG2, which was Genlocked to the Volume.