Introducing Blackmagic Production Camera 4K

To those who question if BMD can deliver...
BMD has more than just a camera to build. They build lots of things. And as a business each product has teams of people in charge of development, sourcing, prototyping, assembly etc.
When Chevy Volt was doing its' death spiral, did that change whether you could get a truck? No.
Did that change the development of the Corvette? No.
I keep thinking that people on here have got to be smarter than the Nancy Kerrigan "Why Me?!" cry babies, but no, everyone has some telepathic connection into the bowels of BMD and the answer to a question of can they deliver. Sad.

Again, being a company, they are in business. If something goes sideways, they either tell you or not. They told us. Sensor problem. Not every sensor, just the one's on the maiden camera. What the hell does the BMCC have to do with the BMPC or the BM4K? But people just wont let it go. Are BMD supposed to call the networks and hold a press conference to state one more time the same statement? No.

So onward the threads continue to get bogged down with the same crap. People, cruise liners lose power, trains derail, milk goes bad, monkeys attack people, brussel sprouts taste like rotting feet, apples have worms, tires go flat, pennies land tails up. What part of life dont some of you get? The age old question of "Are we there yet" will be answered when we get there. If you ordered 2.5 and got one, bravo. If you dont want it now, sell it. No amount of "Why me!?" is going to change where we all are in the journey. We still aint there yet and if you ask again, the answer will be the same.

My perfect solution is that there should be a "Im not happy" thread where all this stuff can go, so that real content can populate threads like this. Yes waiting on something you REALLY want sucks. We all get that, beyond that point.... we aint there yet.

To Mr. Gilly,
Some information for you sir.

ATEM 1 M/E = Late
ATEM 2 M/E = Late
Hyperdeck Studio and Studio Pro = Late
BMCC = Late
Teranex = Late

I'm sure I'm missing a few... Now tell me people shouldn't be thinking that these two camera's might be late? BTW Late is late no matter how overdue, but In the case of the ATEMS, Hyperdeck Pro and BMCC I would call them insultingly late. Like OVER a YEAR late, on all of them!

Thank you for your time.

Edit: I would just like to add I do not give two s**** if they are late or not as I don't intent to buy either. I just like the truth to be known and not some fanboy rant about how BMD will be on time when history CLEARLY dictates otherwise and not on just one occasion, but MULTIPLE occasions no less.

I don't remember the release date for ATEM, but I remember calling my reseller and being concerned if we would get our in time for school start but we did get it in time, so I'm not worried that it will be the same story as the BMCC.

I’m in the process of deciding which Blackmagic Design camera to buy. I’ve had a BMCC-MFT pre-ordered for months, and also pre-ordered one of the new BMPC-4K the day after it was announced at this week’s NAB Expo. I’m only going to buy one of them, so I have to decide which one.

Because I’m leaning toward the BMPC-4K, I thought it might be a good idea for me to play around a bit with some 4K ProRes HQ files to see if my computer & software can handle it. For most projects I’ll use ProRes HQ more than CinemaDNG files, and the BMPC-4K may not even ship with its CinemaDNG feature enabled at first, so 4K ProRes HQ will do just fine for now.

I have a 3 year old MacBook Pro 17″ w. 2.66 GHz i7 CPU, 8GB RAM, nVidia GeForce GT 330M gpu; w. SATA-3 ExpressCard I/O & 9TB of external 7200rpm HDD storage, but no Thunderbolt. I currently use FCP7 for editing, and I have a copy of Davinci Resolve Lite 9.1.

I did a simple test using Resolve to up-convert one of John Brawley’s 24 fps BMCC 2.5K RAW sample files to 4K ProRes HQ. The resulting 4K file has a data rate of about 650 megabits/sec, which is about right, since the target data rate for 4K ProRes HQ @ 24 fps is 707 mb/s.

I imported this 4K file into FCP7, and it plays smoothly in real time; no dropped frames. I did some basic editing & color correcting with it, and that worked fine, too. I wasn’t really surprised since Macs usually have no trouble playing ProRes files, but this was the first time I’ve tried a 4K file. Sweet!

Since I tend to “hold onto” gear for a relatively long time, I think the BMPC-4K camera will make sense for me. I’ll be able to use it near-term primarily for creating 1080p projects, and over time use its 4K capability more and more as projects are able to benefit from it or require it. I really like that the BMPC-4K cam’s sensor has a global shutter (no rolling shutter “jello”!), and that its APS-C format is wider than the BMCC (~1.6 vs. ~2.3 crop factor).

I wish the BMPC-4K had an “E” lens mount instead of “EF” (for better adaptability with more lenses), but I can live with EF. I plan to get RedRock Nikon-to-EF lens adapters for my set of old manual Nikkor prime lenses, and I’ll probably buy a wide-ish f2.8 EF zoom.

As long as the BMPC-4K’s video quality proves to be generally very good, it’s OK with me if it ends up having slightly less DR & sensitivity than the BMCC. I own lights & know how to use them. And I actually like the form factor & other features shared by both cameras.

Soooo … I guess I’ve made up my mind … the BMPC-4K it is … until I change my mind again.

Good idea, do you have to files or link to John Brawley’s raw sample files?

Thanks!

To those who question if BMD can deliver...
BMD has more than just a camera to build. They build lots of things. And as a business each product has teams of people in charge of development, sourcing, prototyping, assembly etc.
When Chevy Volt was doing its' death spiral, did that change whether you could get a truck? No.
Did that change the development of the Corvette? No.
I keep thinking that people on here have got to be smarter than the Nancy Kerrigan "Why Me?!" cry babies, but no, everyone has some telepathic connection into the bowels of BMD and the answer to a question of can they deliver. Sad.

Again, being a company, they are in business. If something goes sideways, they either tell you or not. They told us. Sensor problem. Not every sensor, just the one's on the maiden camera. What the hell does the BMCC have to do with the BMPC or the BM4K? But people just wont let it go. Are BMD supposed to call the networks and hold a press conference to state one more time the same statement? No.

So onward the threads continue to get bogged down with the same crap. People, cruise liners lose power, trains derail, milk goes bad, monkeys attack people, brussel sprouts taste like rotting feet, apples have worms, tires go flat, pennies land tails up. What part of life dont some of you get? The age old question of "Are we there yet" will be answered when we get there. If you ordered 2.5 and got one, bravo. If you dont want it now, sell it. No amount of "Why me!?" is going to change where we all are in the journey. We still aint there yet and if you ask again, the answer will be the same.

My perfect solution is that there should be a "Im not happy" thread where all this stuff can go, so that real content can populate threads like this. Yes waiting on something you REALLY want sucks. We all get that, beyond that point.... we aint there yet.

To Mr. Gilly,
Some information for you sir.

ATEM 1 M/E = Late
ATEM 2 M/E = Late
Hyperdeck Studio and Studio Pro = Late
BMCC = Late
Teranex = Late

I'm sure I'm missing a few... Now tell me people shouldn't be thinking that these two camera's might be late? BTW Late is late no matter how overdue, but In the case of the ATEMS, Hyperdeck Pro and BMCC I would call them insultingly late. Like OVER a YEAR late, on all of them!

Thank you for your time.

Edit: I would just like to add I do not give two s**** if they are late or not as I don't intent to buy either. I just like the truth to be known and not some fanboy rant about how BMD will be on time when history CLEARLY dictates otherwise and not on just one occasion, but MULTIPLE occasions no less.

I would only say they are late when July has come and gone. I wouldn't classify myself as a "fanboy" since I don't worship any manufacturer of any product. As far as my post being a rant? I would say I'm not ranting unless you count my dismay towards the numerous negative posts stating the same sob story over and over. We all get what is the current status, but to claim that the past will dictate the future in such terms seems like such a waste of posts. I can only hope they don't follow the track record you listed, but I'm not about to go off ranting on how my entire life revolves around getting a product. If people dont have a plan b, that says alot about how certain people get through life. Again, my only main point was anyone waiting for any product to be produced will have to wait until it is shipping. I totally agree that it sucks to have to wait on something if you are counting on it and thinking like most here have that they figured they would have had the 2.5k in hand already. If I were in charge I would make sure every purchaser of the 2.5k got a 50% off coupon towards the pocket camera or a free SSD card. BMD does sort of owe the loyal base especially those who had to fork over the full monty and still have no camera.

Off topic, do you have any experience with the ATEM1 ME switcher?

Gilly

Good idea, do you have to files or link to John Brawley’s raw sample files? Thanks!

I've updated my previous post to read: I used Resolve to convert the BMCC 2.5K CinemaDNG files to 1080p ProRes HQ, imported that into FCP7 and exported it out as 4K ProRes HQ, and then started a new test edit in FCP7 using the 4K ProRes HQ video. John Brawley's original sample BMCC 2.5K RAW Cinema DNG files are here:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15

Cheers.

[Kristian Lam]

Very important...why no dnxhd???? Its better and more versatile then prores and no pc users will by this if you exclude people who actually have decent computers instead of hipster notebooks.

Because DNxHD does not support 4K.

I wish the BMPC-4K had an “E” lens mount instead of “EF” (for better adaptability with more lenses), but I can live with EF. I plan to get RedRock Nikon-to-EF lens adapters for my set of old manual Nikkor prime lenses, and I’ll probably buy a wide-ish f2.8 EF zoom.

As long as the BMPC-4K’s video quality proves to be generally very good, it’s OK with me if it ends up having slightly less DR & sensitivity than the BMCC. I own lights & know how to use them. And I actually like the form factor & other features shared by both cameras.

Soooo … I guess I’ve made up my mind … the BMPC-4K it is … until I change my mind again. [/quote]

Good idea, do you have to files or link to John Brawley’s raw sample files?

Thanks![/quote]

In your post you mentioned you had some old manual Nikkor Prime lenses, I was wondering if maybe you could answer a couple of questions for me...I can get my hands on a Nikon Nikkor 24mm1:2 8, have you ever used this lens and would you recommend it for the BMPC? I already have a Nikon Nikkor 80-200mm f/4.5 non ai and
since its the same family I thought it would be a good idea. I also have a 50mm f2 Helios 44-2, do you know if there is a wide angle by Helios as well? finally would a RedRock Nikon-to-EF lens adapter work for both Nikons and do your recommend one adapter per Nikon or is sharing the norm? Thanks in advance!

In your post you mentioned you had some old manual Nikkor Prime lenses, I was wondering if maybe you could answer a couple of questions for me...I can get my hands on a Nikon Nikkor 24mm1:2 8, have you ever used this lens and would you recommend it for the BMPC? I already have a Nikon Nikkor 80-200mm f/4.5 non ai and since its the same family I thought it would be a good idea. I also have a 50mm f2 Helios 44-2, do you know if there is a wide angle by Helios as well? finally would a RedRock Nikon-to-EF lens adapter work for both Nikons and do your recommend one adapter per Nikon or is sharing the norm? Thanks in advance!

I own a Nikkor F 24mm f2.8 manual prime lens that's at least 45 years old, and it worked great on the BMCC I had on loan for a few days, and I use it often on my colleague's Sony FS100 (which, like the BMPC-4K, has a APS-C size sensor, give or take a millimeter or two). Nikkor F lenses are designed for full-frame 35mm still photography, so they can be used with pretty much any size sensor.

My >45 yr. old set of Nikkor F lenses include the 24mm, and also a 35mm, 55mm & 85mm (all f2.8 or faster). I use Fotodiox "pro" MFT, Sony-E, & EF lens mount adapters. However, the RedRock EF adapters look like they might be stronger than the Fotodiox version, so I plan on getting one of those.

Sources of info on old Nikkor lenses:
http://www.keh.com
http://www.naturfotograf.com/lens_surv.html#top1
http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/ha ... /index.htm
http://www.photosynthesis.co.nz/nikon/lenses.html

Old Nikkors generally aren't as sharp or contrasty as modern glass, but I've learned to appreciate their look, and the slight softness/glow may help reduce moire slightly. I typically share one adapter among multiple lenses, but I may get multiple RedRock adapters if I like them. Some Nikon lenses don't have a aperture ring on the lens barrel. There are adapters available that have a built-in lever/control to allow you to adjust the aperture on these lenses.

I don't know anything about Helios lenses, regrets.

Very important...why no dnxhd???? Its better and more versatile then prores and no pc users will by this if you exclude people who actually have decent computers instead of hipster notebooks.

Because DNxHD does not support 4K.

Pretty sure from MC7 it will seeing as MC7 supports 4k... I may be wrong?

Gilly I do have knowledge of the ATEM but msg me if you want to ask a question. I dont want to go off topic:)

I feel the same way about old Leica R primes. Definitely not as sharp/contrasty as a new Zeiss, but it has that super duper warm Panavision Primo vibe. So much so it looks like you turned up the color temp on your Wb just a tad. Love it.

Can't wait to try them on a BMCC

In your post you mentioned you had some old manual Nikkor Prime lenses, I was wondering if maybe you could answer a couple of questions for me...I can get my hands on a Nikon Nikkor 24mm1:2 8, have you ever used this lens and would you recommend it for the BMPC? I already have a Nikon Nikkor 80-200mm f/4.5 non ai and
since its the same family I thought it would be a good idea. I also have a 50mm f2 Helios 44-2, do you know if there is a wide angle by Helios as well? finally would a RedRock Nikon-to-EF lens adapter work for both Nikons and do your recommend one adapter per Nikon or is sharing the norm? Thanks in advance!

As Peter says the old Nikkor AI and AIS F mount lenses are great. I also have a range of them and love the look.

I also have a range of Nikon F mount Carl Zeiss ZF.2 lenses that I use on various cameras like the current BMCC with a Nikon F to EOS EF adaptor.

The Helios lenses were made in Russia and the most common one is the Helios 44-2 (58mm f2 M42 Mount) and was a copy of the Zeiss Biotar design.

They also did 28, 35, 45, 50, 52, 65, 85 and 200mm. Mostly M42 mount.

The MIR-1 37mm and Jupiter-9 85mm are also generally good matched tho my MIR-1 37mm seems to be a touch warmer than the Helios 44-2 and Jupiter-9.

Google Classic Russian lenses for more info.

Is there an upgrade path? I waited 8 months for the first one now its outdated in 1 month :-/

+1 for an upgrade path!!!

Same here, I just bought the BMCC after waiting 11 months and it's allready 'old'

If the sensor is really the http://www.cmosis.com/products/standard_products/cmv12000 it should be possible to output 90-150fps at 1080p and 60fps at 2.5K.

is this true, did anybody digged into this/

Maybe because I'm new to all this but I don't understand why people are calling their new cameras old. Which features did you want? If it's dynamic range and uncompressed RAW, then the BMCC is the best camera of the bunch, if it's 4k and global shutter it's the BMPC, and if it's compact size it's the BMPCC.

The three go side by side, and in terms of sheer picture quality I think it's probably a safe bet the BMCC people are complaining about being old, will rank #1. Even BlackMagic themselves admit there's compromises to the 4K camera, and to the pocket camera.

Plus if you want the best 'upgrade path', keep your BMCC till mid next year, then sell it on Ebay for what I'm sure will still be a large amount, and pay the difference for a 4k camera that does 60fps or 120fps with various other improvements and upgrades too. But again it depends on what features you want.

If the sensor is really the http://www.cmosis.com/products/standard_products/cmv12000 it should be possible to output 90-150fps at 1080p and 60fps at 2.5K.

is this true, did anybody digged into this/

No one has confirmed that's the sensor, but images of the sensor look identical in terms of contacts around it and such, so it's extremely likely. But it could be customized or such.

Having said that, the camera is only as strong as its weakest link, and while the sensor can do high frame rates, chances are the heatsink inside and the other systems won't be up to the task. That's part of the difference between this and the Sony at twice the price (which needs an external recorder to use the high frame rate 4k, and keeps the sensor much colder than the black magic does).

I'm not complaining and I am very happy with this fantastic piece of equipment, however, waiting for one year and then getting the camera one week before the next ones come out, feels a bit strange, even when the new ones are very different.

If the sensor is really the http://www.cmosis.com/products/standard_products/cmv12000 it should be possible to output 90-150fps at 1080p and 60fps at 2.5K.

Then its probably a sustainability move. Early adopters get it for quality and its potential
...then in a year or two...they unlock those features to get more sales on older tech. Oldest trick in the book

Right. Same thing happened to Alexa when Arri added the 120fps via a firmware update.
I really hope BM will do the same. Higher fps is the only thing missing in my opinion.

90-150 fps for the BMCC would be great!

Feeling a bit strange, that I can understand yeah.

They better not announce a price drop anytime soon though, that'd be a true slap in the face for owners of the BMCC. Not that I think there's any chance they will do that soon.

Yes, its a good camera. Yes, it incredibly cheap, for what it does.
But forget all those incredible specifications, and lets centre on what it doesn't do.
It doesn't do the dishes.
What a slap in the face for people like me who are entitled to this kind of function.

I'm not complaining and I am very happy with this fantastic piece of equipment, however, waiting for one year and then getting the camera one week before the next ones come out, feels a bit strange, even when the new ones are very different.

The next one is not "out" yet. It was "announced". For all you know it will be a year before it's delivered. How can so many people literally repeat a history that has been so well documented (on this same forum). We haven't even seen footage from a working model yet. At least last time there were Brawley's few vids. Stop acting like addicts, especially if you already got your drugs. Use them, enjoy them, make pretty pictures for the rest of us to see.

I'm not complaining and I am very happy with this fantastic piece of equipment, however, waiting for one year and then getting the camera one week before the next ones come out, feels a bit strange, even when the new ones are very different.

If we all waited for the latest and greatest, we'd never get anything done. I got my BMCC 2 months ago and I'm not annoyed at all that a 4K version is coming out. That doesn't mean you can't shoot and create great content without the 4K version. You can and should. We need to stop chasing technology and concentrate on making great content and making money with the current cam we have so that we can, if we want, upgrade to the 4K or whatever else we want. Resolution isn't everything, and unless you have clients that specifically request 4K, I wouldn't worry. Just use what you have (the BMCC) and create some amazing stuff.

The compressed CinemaDNG codec according to this video for the 4K camera will be a "lossy" codec, so visually lossless as opposed to mathematically lossless. I'm not too sure how I feel about this as of right now, having not seen any footage, I wonder if it is the way to go, I know in the interview he states people will realize that visually it looks great but will it be enough info for post?

The compressed CinemaDNG codec according to this video for the 4K camera will be a "lossy" codec, so visually lossless as opposed to mathematically lossless. I'm not too sure how I feel about this as of right now, having not seen any footage, I wonder if it is the way to go, I know in the interview he states people will realize that visually it looks great but will it be enough info for post?

It'll be more than enough for post. I guess it depends on your standards, but I can't see anyone being upset with how it grades in post.

It'll be more than enough for post. I guess it depends on your standards, but I can't see anyone being upset with how it grades in post.

Thanks for the reply, I'm sure I will be very pleased with its latitude in post, this camera has the potential to be very awesome!

The compressed CinemaDNG codec according to this video for the 4K camera will be a "lossy" codec, so visually lossless as opposed to mathematically lossless. I'm not too sure how I feel about this as of right now, having not seen any footage, I wonder if it is the way to go, I know in the interview he states people will realize that visually it looks great but will it be enough info for post?

Who can you believe, the CEO that clearly says the BMPCC is lossless and the BMPC4K is lossy. Their rep Tim used the terms visually lossless and mathematically lossless interchangeably and compared to the compression to a ZIP which of course loses no data. I am betting the CEO is right. Especially given he cites they implemented the compression schemes that are part of the CinemaDNG specifications and he is an engineer. This may still be produce very good results when working in 4K during the post processes; down scaling to 2K or HD would still give great results. So many people were calling for compressed raw, let us hope they enjoy getting what they wanted. And given the record times of consumer grade SSDs, 4K certainly requires compressed raw. Was just hoping it was lossless because jpgs are not fun to grade.

Time will tell.

Rick Lang
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

I'm not sure what the worry is about a compressed RAW codec. RED's REDCODE RAW (R3D) is also a compressed RAW codec and I don't see anyone complaining about that holding up in post.

Even the ProRes would give you a lot of latitude in post.

I'm not sure what the worry is about a compressed RAW codec. RED's REDCODE RAW (R3D) is also a compressed RAW codec and I don't see anyone complaining about that holding up in post.

Even the ProRes would give you a lot of latitude in post.

As an Editor of Feature Films, Broadcast Commercials, Spec Commercials, VFX & Special Effects,
and more, I need to agree with Adam, Stop your paranoia about the Compressed CinemaDNG Raw.

RAW is what Made Red..Red! Without it a Epic-X would certainly be just "EPIC" with no "X" to shoot and or edit, but not worth it's weight in gold... period.

Stop,learn,listen.

Just like public schools taught us to "Stop, Drop and Roll" for an earthquake!

You all need to Stop, learn and listen, 4K is the Future, So Do I need it for my Feature/Short Film??
No, Not at all, 2.5K is a perfect resolution to start with for 2K output.

Stop second guessing BMD's NAB announcement , and Stop second guessing yourself.

As a Red user our workflow is greatly assisted by using a red rocket card to help process data in near realtime from red raw to prores etc.

Render times for 4k footage for users not familiar with this and without hardware support may find that moving to 4k footage whilst attractive, will greatly lengthen edit and post times.

Any thoughts on this for the bmcc 4k, and what hardware assistance would be available ?

As a Red user our workflow is greatly assisted by using a red rocket card to help process data in near realtime from red raw to prores etc.

Render times for 4k footage for users not familiar with this and without hardware support may find that moving to 4k footage whilst attractive, will greatly lengthen edit and post times.

Any thoughts on this for the bmcc 4k, and what hardware assistance would be available ?

Yes My workstation has Dual Quad Zeon 550's, 92GB RAM. Quadro 4000, and GTX580 3GB Classified,
But Even before I upgraded I was able to edit Red 5K footage with no problem in real time.

from the website's info, 240G SSD gives about 30min of 4K recording time. ... ... so do it mean a 240G SSD will give 2hr of Hd recording? (since 4K = 4x HD)

from the website's info, 240G SSD gives about 30min of 4K recording time. ... ... so do it mean a 240G SSD will give 2hr of Hd recording? (since 4K = 4x HD)

That is calculated on shooting in ProRes 422 HQ
4Kx2160p24 = 380.7GB per hour
1080p24 = 90.1GB per hour

There are also other methods like Cineform which will help us if you're worried about data rates. Cineform seems to be a great laternative to compressed DNG. There are options. Cineform RAW is pretty damn amazing if you ask me.

There are also other methods like Cineform which will help us if you're worried about data rates. Cineform seems to be a great laternative to compressed DNG. There are options. Cineform RAW is pretty damn amazing if you ask me.

4K ProRes HQ is pretty damn amazing*, too, and it's included in the BMPC-4K camera. As is also likely to be the case with compressed RAW CinemaDNG when it gets added to the BMPC-4K's firmware.

I look forward to the day when folks stop talking about Cineform acquisition capability in BMD cameras. Absolutely, use Cineform in post if you like, and buy GoPro & other cams that feature it, but give it up already concerning BMD cams. It ain't gonna happen.

BMD is spending big bucks making compressed & uncompressed CinemaDNG their RAW codec of choice. If you want RAW in a BMD cam, then it'll be CinemaDNG, period. Full stop. End of story.

Cheers.

*4 concurrent/composited streams of 4K ProRes HQ easily plays & cuts like butter on my 3 yr. old MacBook Pro!

There are also other methods like Cineform which will help us if you're worried about data rates. Cineform seems to be a great laternative to compressed DNG. There are options. Cineform RAW is pretty damn amazing if you ask me.

4K ProRes HQ is pretty damn amazing*, too, and it's included in the BMPC-4K camera. As is also likely to be the case with compressed RAW CinemaDNG when it gets added to the BMPC-4K's firmware.

I look forward to the day when folks stop talking about Cineform acquisition capability in BMD cameras. Absolutely, use Cineform in post if you like, and buy GoPro & other cams that feature it, but give it up already concerning BMD cams. It ain't gonna happen.

BMD is spending big bucks making compressed & uncompressed CinemaDNG their RAW codec of choice. If you want RAW in a BMD cam, then it'll be CinemaDNG, period. Full stop. End of story.

Cheers.

*4 concurrent/composited streams of 4K ProRes HQ easily plays & cuts like butter on my 3 yr. old MacBook Pro!

For sure, and I'll be using it plenty. I was suggesting Cineform post conversion (not in cam) for those worried about RAW 4K data rates being too high. I'm unfamiliar with the data rates of compressed Cinema DNG so I'm not sure how it'll compare to ProRes.

... I'm unfamiliar with the data rates of compressed Cinema DNG so I'm not sure how it'll compare to ProRes.

I'm pretty sure I heard reports from BMD @ NAB saying the BMPC-4K in-cam compressed RAW CinemaDNG data rates will be something like 1/3 to 1/2 the rates for BMCC uncompressed CinemaDNG, and that BMD hasn't finalized this yet, but I could be wrong about this.

As a Red user our workflow is greatly assisted by using a red rocket card to help process data in near realtime from red raw to prores etc.

Render times for 4k footage for users not familiar with this and without hardware support may find that moving to 4k footage whilst attractive, will greatly lengthen edit and post times.

Any thoughts on this for the bmcc 4k, and what hardware assistance would be available ?

Yes My workstation has Dual Quad Zeon 550's, 92GB RAM. Quadro 4000, and GTX580 3GB Classified,
But Even before I upgraded I was able to edit Red 5K footage with no problem in real time.

what mother board are you using? 92 gigs of ram is awesome...I only have 32.

Yes you loose 1 stop of dynamic range, but the real deal is how compressed the image looks. The global shutter and 4K image will probably look so good that it's better to have one stop less dynamic range then a rolling shutter 2.5K image. Don't forget that the debayering process down to 1080p for most deliveries as of now will make the image even better and the global shutter is a joy when doing VFX work. Finally we can do a 3D track of the camera without it falling into scew mode.

I think you have summed up my thoughts

I ordered the CC the day after it was announced, changed my order to MFT the day they announced it.
Changed my order to the 4K the day they announced it.

Hi!

I'm wondering if it's possible to record 4k to the internal ssd and simultaneously output HD, through 6G-SDI, to, for example, ATEM 1 M/E.

/Stefan

That's a good question, I wanna know too

I don't think the ATEM 1 M/E supports 6G or 4K, but it may take a down converted signal? I hope? I would love to know this too:)

how many stops of dynamic range we get out when in ProRes 422 4k ?

(on the BMCC its 10 stops vs 13 when in RAW mode)

thxxx

how many stops of dynamic range we get out when in ProRes 422 4k ?

(on the BMCC its 10 stops vs 13 when in RAW mode)

thxxx

That's a good point. Totally forgot about that.

Thank you soooo much for making a 35mm sensor. I'm keeping my BMCC 2.5K and buying a 4K. That way I get literally twice as many "lenses" due to crop factor and the footage should match almost perfectly (assuming a 1080 or 2K output of course).

Thank you soooo much for making a 35mm sensor. I'm keeping my BMCC 2.5K and buying a 4K. That way I get literally twice as many "lenses" due to crop factor and the footage should match almost perfectly (assuming a 1080 or 2K output of course).

While it is likely possible to match the footage it may well be not noticeably easier than matching it to a scarlet or Alexia, the sensor is from a different manufacturer and has been already mentioned has a different sensitivity to light and smaller dynamic range. While the colour science may well be weighted to produce a similar result it will likely not be the same.

... (on the BMCC its 10 stops [ProRes] vs. 13 when in RAW mode) ...

That's a good point. Totally forgot about that.

Based on what I've read, the number quoted above may not be accurate for ProRes. John Brawley and others have repeatedly stated that BMCC ProRes DR is "about 1 stop less than RAW", not 3 stops less.

Thank you soooo much for making a 35mm sensor. I'm keeping my BMCC 2.5K and buying a 4K. That way I get literally twice as many "lenses" due to crop factor and the footage should match almost perfectly (assuming a 1080 or 2K output of course).

While it is likely possible to match the footage it may well be not noticeably easier than matching it to a scarlet or Alexia, the sensor is from a different manufacturer and has been already mentioned has a different sensitivity to light and smaller dynamic range. While the colour science may well be weighted to produce a similar result it will likely not be the same.

While what you say is theoretically true, it's equally true that final BMPC-4K video quality/color/noise/etc. -- especially after down-scaling to 1080 and grading in post -- may be so close to the BMCC & other popular cine camera 1080 footage as to be insignificant.

I'm not saying BMPC-4K footage won't be different, but that the difference may not be significant in most productions.

The BMPC-4K isn't finished yet. We'll see.

E-Mount please!

E-Mount please!

+1

However, I suspect the first BMPC-4K has EF to help speed it to market (same body & mount as BMCC-EF).

E mount can be easily adapted to most everything, including PL, F, EF, etc. (And Metabones Speed Booster!) Maybe (hopefully) we'll see an E mount version of the BMPC-4K at a later date?

This is my personal reason why I would love E-mount and not the Canon far from the sensor mount.

Zeiss and Leica m glass.

http://lenses.zeiss.com/content/dam/Pho ... let_en.pdf

Keeps the lens kit small and portable
+ metabones

http://www.metabones.com/product/sony-n ... bm2-detail

Hi!

I'm wondering if it's possible to record 4k to the internal ssd and simultaneously output HD, through 6G-SDI, to, for example, ATEM 1 M/E.

/Stefan

BMD has responded elsewhere. Mr. Lam has assured us that you can record to the internal SSD in 4K and independently set the SDI to output at a different rate such as HD SDI.

Rick Lang
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