Warning about new Sandisk Extreme Pro 95 MB/s media

I believe I've found what we are looking for.

Integrals UltimaProX Gold SDHC/XC UHS-I U3 Card
in the sizes 128, 256 and 512 GB.

Not the 32 and 64 GB, as they have lower rated write speed.

I ran BM Disk Speed Test and clocked the 128 GB card at:
Write: 84,1 MB/s
Read: 90,9 MB/s

I inserted the 128 GB card in my BMMCC and formatted it HFS+.
And then I recorded RAW @ 25 fps until the card was full without a single dropped frame.
I verified the files on my MacBook Pro and Resolve.
Again I formatted the card in camera and recorded RAW @ 30 fps without a single dropped frame.
Same verification process.

The 128GB card for £19.21 and a mere £38.10 for 256 GB makes these very affordable.

Hello!

I bought this exact card with this link but the 256GB version. Sorry I can't post the URL.

Sadly it will only record ProRes422 without dropped frames. I could swear RAW was working before I formatted the card on my PC (thought it would be safer to format fully, guess not!). Now in HFS+ and exFAT only 422 works. Maybe some special formatting specs to trick the BMPCC into using it lol ? It won't even try RAW format, it ENDS recording immediately. It fails to format in camera for exFAT. It will format in camera HFS+.

Have you tried the 256 version yourself yet or only the 128GB?

I have used both 128 and 256 versions of the card. I’ve formatted them HFS+ in camera and I have had no problem with recording RAW on those cards as well.
I’ve filled the 128 without problem and recording about 30 min of RAW on the 256 without or dropped frames.
I have not had the time to let the BMMCC fill up the 256 Integral card yet.

I am out of travel atm but when I get time to test and fill the 256 I will do that and reply again.

A few weeks ago I've talked to Angelbird and told them about the problem finding compatible SD cards for the old BMPCC and Videoassist. They said their technicians will look into this and if they can make their cards compatible.

Well, good news!
Yesterday I got an email that they were successful in modifying the Angelbird SD card firmware (unfortunately you can't upgrade SD cards yourself) to make some of their latest cards fully compatible to the BMPCC and the Videoassist models.
Because they can do that obviously only with the latest cards they are having in-house, they can guarantee compatibility solely for cards ordered directly from Angelbird.

I was told that AV PRO SD V60/V90 cards with 64 and 128 GB have been tested successfully with the BMPCC and Videoassist HD. For Videoassist 4k you will need the V90 cards.

If you are interested you can go to www.Angelbird.com and order from there. You might contact support@angelbird.com before ordering to make sure you will get the correct ones for you.
They'll do ship worldwide.

You're a hero, Robert! Thank you so much for this.

The Kingston 128GB card is working well for me but I may pick up a few of these Angelbirds as well to round out my collection.

I just received a:

Kingston Canvas React 256GB SDXC Class 10 SD Memory Card UHS-I 100MB/s R Flash Memory High Speed SD Card (SDR/256GB)

from Amazon US (sold by Amazon dot com) for about US$60. I formatted it in my original BMPCC as HFS+ and I'm letting it run in RAW recording. It estimated 1 hr 14min available. I'm at 20min in and it's still running, estimating another 57min to go.

Here's my question: Assuming it gets to the full card and stops, I'll have a quarter terabyte of Cinema DNG footage. Is there any automatic check to see if there are any dropped frames in that "file"? Anything in Resolve, Premiere Pro or other tool that confirms no dropped frames?

edit: Just pulled the footage up in Resolve with no problems. 1:23:19:06 to fill the card. I'll have to hammer it some more to see if I can produce any problems, but right now it looks like a fantastically cheap card that works!

(Keep in mind that there's always a degree of "silicon lottery" - unless a bit of storage media has been thoroughly pre-tested (which according to RED costs about US$1000 per drive ), any single card/drive you get may have glitches on it that weren't caught in manufacturing. Be sure you're buying from somewhere you can easily exchange/return the card in case you get a bad one.)

I've used Sandisk ExtremePRO cards all along, so I've never had a dropped frame. My question still stands: How do I confirm that CinemaDNG footage has no dropped frames? Thanks!

I’ve got a Sandisk Exteme Plus 150mbs 128gb card (v30) and it is not recognised by my Blackmagic Pocket Camera. Very disappointing to say the least. Will this card work in a Pocket 4K or is it not going to work for any Blackmagic camera?

I just received a:

Kingston Canvas React 256GB SDXC Class 10 SD Memory Card UHS-I 100MB/s R Flash Memory High Speed SD Card (SDR/256GB)

Here's my question: Assuming it gets to the full card and stops, I'll have a quarter terabyte of Cinema DNG footage. Is there any automatic check to see if there are any dropped frames in that "file"? Anything in Resolve, Premiere Pro or other tool that confirms no dropped frames?

I've used Sandisk ExtremePRO cards all along, so I've never had a dropped frame. My question still stands: How do I confirm that CinemaDNG footage has no dropped frames? Thanks!

The camera will tell you, not Resolve. There’s a little orange exclamation point that appears if there have been any dropped frames while recording. The litmus test for these cards is to record at 30fps raw...if it can record that you should have no problems.

Brad, I know I've recently seen video of that "!" on the BMPCC4k, but I don't recall it for the original BMPCC. Where on the display does the drop frame exclamation point appear on the BMPCC display when it triggers?

I actually just rtfm'ed, and I see something about "red flashing" indicating a dropped frame, but it doesn't mention it being an exclamation mark. That said, the lines in the manual are far from clear.

I ran my earlier test at 23.98fps. I'll run it again at 30fps raw. I recorded 2ish hours of ProResHQ earlier today, with zero problems. So far, this cheap Kingston card is working well!

First post and disappointing that after the excited unwrapping of a Video Assist 5" and getting it fired up, that the 128GB Sandisk SD card I bought specially, isn't recognised, but works in every other device I own.

After going through all my SD cards I have found 2 64GB Sandisk cards that work. The problem is I need to record 50m of footage in one take and Using ProRes I will only get 29m, even LT only brings this to 41m and as I discount Prores PR (I assume proxy) then only DNxHD 45 gives me enough recording time on 64GB (surprisingly I do seem to get 1080p 50fps using DNxHD 45 despite the codec's description saying only 720 is available).

So having gone through the entire thread I have ordered a Samsung Evo Plus and Kingston Canvas React to see how I get on with these. I will post results.

It is frustrating to be faced with a list of 'approved' cards you cannot buy.

Brad, I know I've recently seen video of that "!" on the BMPCC4k, but I don't recall it for the original BMPCC. Where on the display does the drop frame exclamation point appear on the BMPCC display when it triggers?

It's up at the top left corner of the BMPCC display. Can't remember if it's red or orange, but my recollection is that it's a circle with an exclamation point inside. I ran some tests with the Kingston card at 30fps raw, and on my Pocket I did get the dropped frame indicator after 13 minutes of recording, but on my Micro Cinema Camera I was able to fill the card with no dropped frames. I suspect the dropped frames on the Pocket were an issue with my particular camera, which also drops frames at 30fps in Prores even using the original BMD-recommended SanDisk cards, but doesn't drop frames at lower framerates.

In any case, I do think these Kingston cards are an excellent cheap solution and they have a lifetime guarantee. I'd probably feel a little more secure using the Angelbird cards that Robert so generously took time to make available to those of us using these older cameras; they're more expensive but not outrageously so.

Brad - thanks for both replies. I just slapped myself in the forehead - I should just try using a so-so card to trigger the error so I can see it myself. duh.

I agree on the Anglebird cards. For any paid work where re-shooting would be a problem, better to use the high quality cards. For a lot of what I do, I can just re-do a shot if a card throws an error (as long as I know that it happened) and/or switch to a known-good card. But I wouldn't want to have the Kingston card as my only option.

edit: I tried the card in my GH5 to see what would and wouldn't work (200mbps seemed OK from one quick test, 400 failed in 11 seconds.) That required formatting the card from HFS+ to ? (ExFat?) When I put it back in the BMPCC, I tried recording with that format to see what would happen. With RAW, 24fps, about 30 seconds in I triggered the dropped frame warning - In the upper left corner where it would normally say "REC" in red, there was a red circle with a "negative" exclamation point blinking. It would be nice if the manuals stated this.

But I wouldn't want to have the Kingston card as my only option.

I feel the same way but there's no logical backup for that feeling: is it just because they're cheap? Do we equate cheap with low quality, even though the cards are guaranteed for life? I did see a report by Frank Engel that a micro-SD card from Kingston originally performed well but "didn't hold up" and eventually started dropping frames. But micro-SD isn't generally as reliable as SD.

Ah well, logical or not I suppose I'll get a few Angelbird cards for peace of mind (and to reward them for being willing to modify their cards to work in the BMPCC and related products).

Both the Kingston Canvas React (V30) and Samsung Evo Plus (U3) 128GB cards have been working well in the Video Assist so far as alternatives. In testing I've made 40 minute+ ProRes recordings without any warnings.

Going to use them a bit more before deciding which if any to get more of.

Personally, over the years, I've never had a Kingston card let me down, so despite not being a 'premium' brand they seem to work well. Time will tell with this intensity of use.

I have a UHS-II 1000x Lexar card, it is only 16GB so not much help, but I did notice something a bit strange. First of all, it works, so the no UHS-II cards comments I've seen don't seem true. However, if I format the card and immediately start recording, after 3-5 minutes I get frame drop warnings. If I then stop the recording and start it again, the card will fill up with no further warnings. If I format the card, record for 30s, stop and restart, I get no frame drop warnings - odd.

a report by Frank Engel that a micro-SD card from Kingston originally performed well but "didn't hold up" and eventually started dropping frames. But micro-SD isn't generally as reliable as SD.

To be clear, that report was for a different Kingston card (not only micro-SD but a different product line) and the only problem I had was that it couldn't keep up with the data rate and would randomly start dropping frames during recording.

As with subwoofer, I consider Kingston to be about as good a brand as any when it comes to the reliability of their memory (in terms of data loss and the like), and I too tried the 128GB card that is being discussed here and have been able to record 30fps RAW with it consistently and without issue so far.

FYI, for those hoping to use the Kingston card to record at higher than 30fps in the Micro Cinema Camera, it looks like you're out of luck. I tested 60fps this morning at someone's request, first with raw 3:1 (60fps wasn't even an option in the menu if I chose uncompressed raw) and then with Prores HQ and in both cases got almost immediate frame-drop warnings. Works fine at 30fps uncompressed raw but doesn't seem like it can handle the higher rates.

Thanks for the heads up Brad.

I'll run the same tests later today with RAW@60 on my Micro Cinema but using the Integral 128GB & 256GB cards.

Thanks for the heads up Brad.

I'll run the same tests later today with RAW@60 on my Micro Cinema but using the Integral 128GB & 256GB cards.

Can you let us know about your results?
I am also searching card for the Micro which can shoot 60p RAW 3:1

I did some tests with the Micro Cinema using the 128 and 256GB Integral SD card mentioned earlier to record cDNG 3:1 at 60fps.

It did NOT work. I got frames dropped.
60 FPS works perfect up to ProRes 422HQ but not cDNG.
The cards works with cDNG 1:1 and 3:1 at 30fps thought.

A bit disappointing although normal frame rates are doable.

It did NOT work. I got frames dropped.

Sad to hear that. Maybe we should try to previously mentioned Sony High Speed card?
I start to think that we do not have any chance to get cDNG@60p to work with any card anymore.

Have anyone tried to record cDNG and 1:1 and 1:3 at 60fps with the 128/256 Canvas React SD cards?

I contacted Angelbird concerning the compatibility of their V60 and V90 SD cards with the micro cinema camera and they confirmed:

Thank you for reaching out and for the interest in our SD card.
Yes i am happy to confirm that our V60 and V90 cards are compatible with the Blackmagic MIcro Cinema.
Please place your order directly on our webshop to get the right cards.

So i will order a pair of 128 V60 cards and report my results

Cheers
David

Have anyone tried to record cDNG and 1:1 and 1:3 at 60fps with the 128/256 Canvas React SD cards?

It doesn't work. I couldn't even record in Prores at 60fps on my 128 gig Canvas React. I tried CDNG 3:1 and no luck either.

Ohh. Sad news. :/

So the only other card besides the "non-existing" sandisk card, the Integral card might be the only one that handles 30fps cDNG and 60fps ProRes HQ.

Have anyone tried to record cDNG and 1:1 and 1:3 at 60fps with the 128/256 Canvas React SD cards?

It doesn't work. I couldn't even record in Prores at 60fps on my 128 gig Canvas React. I tried CDNG 3:1 and no luck either.

Assuming the BMMCC uses the same resolution and compression ratio as CDNG RAW on the BMPCC, at about 2.4 MB/frame you would need at least a consistent 144 MB/sec write speed for 60fps.

Even the Sandisk SDSDXXG topped out at 90.9 when I tested it, and while a Verbatim card I recently tested gave an almost shocking 290.7 MB/sec in BMD's Disk Test speed results, it failed utterly when placed in the camera - it couldn't even handle Prores LT without starting to drop frames.



Angelbird is claiming a sustained write speed of 140 MB/sec for their 64GB and 128GB V60 cards, and only 100 MB/sec for the other sizes of V60 cards, so I don't think I would expect those to be reliable for 60fps CDNG RAW, again assuming the 2.4 MB/frame (and I don't know if that is accurate?)

For their V90 cards they are claiming a sustained write speed of 260 MB/sec, which in theory should easily be fast enough...

The catch is that these are UHS-II cards, so the performance they list will be for using UHS-II cards in UHS-II devices. A UHS-II card in a UHS-I device will usually work, but may not have the same level of performance, so even if the numbers can be trusted... all bets are off until someone actually does the testing to see how they hold up in the actual camera.

When I tested the Kingston card at 60fps in the BMMCC, lossless raw wasn't even an available menu option at that framerate; the only flavor of raw I could shoot was compressed 3:1 and the Kingston couldn't handle it. I haven't tried it with my original SanDisks, which do shoot Prores at 60fps. Next time I have my Micro set up I'll run a test with a SanDisk card to see if raw 60fps is an option with lossless CDNG raw; the manual actually might mention this.

hm... BM disk speed test app says for my Canvas React 128Gb that it can record Prores at 60p...
I'll try it tomorrow. But for quick test, it seemed to be good enough to record cDNG 3:1@24p

I also contacted Angelbird and asked them to confirm they 128Gb V60 card is supported to shoot cDNG 3:1@60p. They said yes. So if David can test it soon and it really works, I think I'll also order 1 or 2.

I received the Angelbird 128GB V60 cards today. (I formatted them in camera (BMMCC) exFAT)

I'm glad to report that I was able to shoot
cDNG 1:1 24fps (didn't try 30fps at 1:1)
cDNG 3:1 at 50fps and 60fps

I stopped filming after 3 minutes (7.5 minutes of slow motion) and had no dropped frames.

If someone wants me to test a longer slow motion shot, let me know.

Very happy this worked out as I just bought the camera second-hand a few days ago and wasn't aware of the card shortage. Thanks also to Angelbird's fast support email.

Now maybe Blackmagic Design could evaluate these cards themselves and then list them as a viable alternative to the already listed older generation Sandisk cards, because I wasn't able to find any vendor for those.

Cheers David

Here are Angelbird AV Pro V90 and V60 64GB speed tests with different card readers:

https://www.cameramemoryspeed.com/revie ... mory-card/

https://www.cameramemoryspeed.com/revie ... mory-card/

I'm glad to report that I was able to shoot
cDNG 1:1 24fps (didn't try 30fps at 1:1)
cDNG 3:1 at 50fps and 60fps

This is really great David, thank you for your tests. I'm going to get these cards then.

Kingston Canvas React UHS-I U3 V30 256GB also reported as workinw well for RAW recording. More info here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=91479&p=545415#p545314

Speed test: https://www.cameramemoryspeed.com/revie ... mory-card/

Kingston Canvas React UHS-I U3 V30 256GB also reported as workinw well for RAW recording.

According to BM SpeedTest it is not capable for RAW 60p. Here are my results for 128Gb version:

DiskSpeedTest.png (203.22 KiB) Viewed 477665 times

However I think maybe this is for 1:1 cDNG. I am going to test it today with 3:1 cDNG in first place.

BM Speedtest calculate uncompressed DNG. Compressed DNG 3:1 file size is somewhere in between ProRes422 and ProRes444.
Here is Original Sandisk Extreme Pro 95 MB/s 128GB test with older USB3.0 version of Transcend RDF5 card reader https://www.transcend-info.com/Products/No-396

Screen Shot 2019-09-07 at 2.26.11 PM.png (351.42 KiB) Viewed 477573 times

On my Micro Cinema Camera, the Kingston 128 gig card would not record raw 3:1 at 60fps. I got dropped frame warnings in the first two or three seconds of recording. It would also not record Prores HQ at 60fps. It was fine at 30fps, raw, raw 3:1, or Prores, but would not record at higher framerates.

Note that, at least on my Micro camera, raw 3:1 was the only raw option available in the menu at 60fps even with the original BMD-approved SanDisk cards; I couldn't even select lossless raw as an option. Not sure if that's an issue with my camera or if that's just the way it is; there's nothing about this in the manual.

It is normal. BMMCC can do 60fps only with RAW 3:1 or ProRes
Seems to record 60fps RAW 3:1 you need Angelbird AV Pro V90 and V60 cards.

The cost of the Angelbird cards are a bit to much for me at about 5x the cost of the Integral cards.
I feel quite satisfied with doing 60fps ProRes 422 HQ as of now.

BMMCC can do 60fps only with RAW 3:1 or ProRes
Seems to record 60fps RAW 3:1 you need Angelbird AV Pro V90 and V60 cards.

Yes, I can also confirm this. However it says ProRes should be fine with the Canvas React. With 60p 422 HQ started to drop frames. But ProRes 422 is fine.
I think I will go with the Angelbird cards in another round.

Something to bear in mind is that the speed test is testing how the card performs in the card reader that you are using the card with. The card might perform differently in the card reader within the camera and the software has no way to compensate for that.

While I do think the disk test software is a useful metric, it is not sufficient on its own for determining compatibility with the camera(s) - for that, you need to do an actual test of the actual card in the camera itself.

yes, you are 100% right.
tomorrow I'll get my first Angelbird card and I will test it as soon as I can.

I've just got my Angelbird V60 and it also drops frames with cDNG 3:1 60fps...
Any idea why? Or BMMCC 60fps can be only with ProRes?
(ProRes 422 is flawless with Angelbird, but also with Kingston Canvas React)

Thats a bit of a let down.
But does it manage 422 HQ @60fps?

If so, at least three cards with general availability can do ProRes 422 HQ 60fps. Where the Kingston and Integral are the low priced options.

Angelbird V60
Integral UltimaPro X
Kingston Canvas React

Or BMMCC 60fps can be only with ProRes?

No, the BMMCC can record raw 3:1 at 60fps on the original BMD-approved SanDisk Extreme Pro UHS-I cards; I've tested it.

Interesting that your Canvas React can record Prores HQ at 60fps; mine can't on my BMMCC.

Ohh. Did I make a mistake and assumed it did 422 HQ.
I might have mixed that up.
Integral manages that at least.

cDNG 3:1 60fps...
Any idea why?

did you format in camera? i had dropped frames when i used the angelbird card as is, without formatting it first in camera. after i did format it in camera (exFAT) i did not have dropped frames anymore

cDNG 3:1 60fps...
Any idea why?

did you format in camera?

yes I did, to exFAT in camera. interesting that you do not get dropped frames,


Brad: maybe I remember wrong and it was not HQ but only 422 Prores. I'll test it further.

I ordered two V60 128GB Angelbird cards so I now tested the second one with 3:1 cDNG at 60 fps - again, no dropped frames.

So I don't know why you get dropped frames - try contacting Angelbird's support team.

I contacted them.
However, tonight I made another test and now I was able to record 2x ~30secs without dropping frames.
Strange...

I bought both the 128GB and the 256GB here in the UK with this same link to use in my BMPCC the 128GB worked fine but the 256 does not. integral Ultima pro X SDXC (3) I

This was straight out of the box into camera. Might try to see if I reformat the 256GB on my Mac to see if it works.

I also Contacted Angelbird in Austria and they confirmed that their V60 and V90 disks will work with all older BM products.

Buy direct from them as they know this problem.

Hope this helps

I also bought an Integral 128GB card. For the first tests, I was able to record also 60p 3:1 cDNG without frame drops. To be honest, I recorded only 1minute but I did not get frame drop, while I always get dropped frames with the Kingston CanvasReact 128Gb ~10-20secs...
So it seems this Integrale card is faster and more reliable than the Kingston and for a cheaper price.

Where are people finding these Integral cards? Amazon says unavailable and I can't see an alternative except for microsd versions on Ebay.

I bought this one
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00VFJR2VA/ref=cm_sw_r_tw_dp_U_x_Q5jODbX4M8G1Z

Gosh...! i didn't know about it thanks for sharing this man....i'll be careful now....!