URSA Mini 4.6k The Original™ Magenta Cast Issue

I wouldn't hold my breath on Terra. They have gone dark. I posted some comments on their facebook page asking where the camera was and they are now gone and I can no longer comment on their page. Not a good sign. Even BM is better than that.

There was a post yesterday on Facebook confirming end of July for Terra 6K and September/October for Terra 5K. The poster said it came straight from Kinefinity. (I wonder if the delay on 5K is due to the switch from rolling shutter to global shutter.)

One reason there may not be footage yet may be that the Terra 6K is really the same sensor as the KineMax, just in a smaller body. Perhaps they feel there is already footage on the site?

In general, businesses that continually refuse to act differently if the face of customer complaints will find themselves out of business.

(Or in terms of the "couple" analogy, broken up with.)

Oh yeah. Being super open and communicating a ton worked really well for Digital Bolex. Nope. Out of business. BM still here. Go figure.

Cmon Steve. Anyone can cherry pick examples to support their point, but the overarching truth still remains. DB had other issues that put them out of business (overpricing and only having one product being chief among them imo). What I said about businesses not listening to customers is still true. The list of companies that didn't listen and have been damaged or are just gone is pretty long...

Guys I hate to be that Hall Monitor/wannabe moderator type, but there is already at least one multi page thread on shipping/supply issues:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=49761

Normally I wouldn't care if it went off topic, but I actually want BMD to respond and turning this into a general complain about BMD thread makes that less likely. Tony Rivera actually DID respond recently in one of the shipping threads and I'm not sure anyone actually responded...

I can't get enough information about the Terra to make a decision on purchasing.

I can't get enough information about the Terra to make a decision on purchasing.

Yeah it's a tough decision, the main thing holding me up is they're just starting to get US distributors. I've had the opportunity to shoot with the kinemax however, and that was one hell of an experience. I really enjoyed the image and ease of operation. The main downside is its large, actually similar size to the mini just slightly heavier. But with the Terra, if it works as they say it will, it'll be perfect. I was able to check it out during NAB, and the thing weighs just as much as a DSLR, and it takes cheap SSD's. Honestly if problems continue with BMD and Terra doesn't see any major issues I may have to make the swap.

Oh yeah. Being super open and communicating a ton worked really well for Digital Bolex. Nope. Out of business. BM still here. Go figure.

The reason why Digital Bolex went out of business was that they had a niche product which did not sell well after its small possible market share got saturated and they had no follow-up product in the pipeline. BMD always understood that you have to sell to the mass market to work up a good turnover.

Apologies that we have not had more to update recently.

Our camera team has been working very hard to improve on the magenta issues mentioned in this thread as well as making progress on new URSA Mini operating system and the URSA 4.6K.

As you can already see there have been quite a lot of cases where customers have updated their camera with 3.3 and seen a vast improvement in both overall magenta tint, and also on magenta shading. This was one of the primary functions of the 3.3 update.

If you have concerns about your camera, please don’t hesitate to contact our support team.

We are also working very hard on software version 4.0 with the new URSA Mini operating system which will have tint control built in and also has an Auto White balance feature, this will make matching cameras very simple for those who aren’t Resolve users.

Tony, thanks for the post re firmware release 4.0. I think there's a song on all of our minds, that you might be able to answer as to the development/QC team's best guesstimate:
"Cuando, cuando, cuando?"


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Apologies that we have not had more to update recently.

Our camera team has been working very hard to improve on the magenta issues mentioned in this thread as well as making progress on new URSA Mini operating system and the URSA 4.6K.

As you can already see there have been quite a lot of cases where customers have updated their camera with 3.3 and seen a vast improvement in both overall magenta tint, and also on magenta shading. This was one of the primary functions of the 3.3 update.

If you have concerns about your camera, please don’t hesitate to contact our support team.

We are also working very hard on software version 4.0 with the new URSA Mini operating system which will have tint control built in and also has an Auto White balance feature, this will make matching cameras very simple for those who aren’t Resolve users.

Thanks much for the update, Tony!

Tony, thanks for the post re firmware release 4.0. I think there's a song on all of our minds, that you might be able to answer as to the development/QC team's best guesstimate:
"Cuando, cuando, cuando?"


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I do not have an exact date on when this is going live but I know from the communication we've received is they're doing their best to get this out ASAP.

Okay, so not RSN! (Joking.)


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Thanks Tony for keeping us up-to-date!
I am already curious what will arrive first to me: firmware 4.0 or my Ursa Mini 4.6k

Ok now that I've familiarized myself with the camera... time to test for magenta
Since I'm not pro at shooting white walls (generally only shoot fashion models ) can you guys give me tips? which are the best lenses to test? I have many Canon lenses up to 200mm and the Sigma Art 35/50... and F8-22 is that right?

I wonder why this thread has gotten quiet? Did we just give up and accepted that the 4.6k for some of us means not to pass the F4.5 F-stop when shooting?
I find it a little hard to accept and would like to know where we are at with progress on rectifying this?

Joshua?

Hey John,

If youre looking for a worst case scenario to look for magenta, shoot an evenly lit white wall with a Sigma 18-35mm lens on the 35mm side at f/8. Most 35mm and 50mm will do at f/8 if you dont have the Sigma.

If you do the test, PLEASE shoot in RAW (you only need a single frame) not 3:1 or 4:1 but full RAW, and dont clip the image.

That's it, if you can share a RAW frame, it'd be really great to see. Thanks!

Hey John,

If youre looking for a worst case scenario to look for magenta, shoot an evenly lit white wall with a Sigma 18-35mm lens on the 35mm side at f/8. Most 35mm and 50mm will do at f/8 if you dont have the Sigma.

If you do the test, PLEASE shoot in RAW (you only need a single frame) not 3:1 or 4:1 but full RAW, and dont clip the image.

That's it, if you can share a RAW frame, it'd be really great to see. Thanks!

Ok... I dont yet have the Sigma 18-35 but I do have the Sigma Art 35mm f/1.4... Here's how I tested...

White A3 photo paper
Uncompressed Raw
ISO 800
F/8
Histogram centered in the middle

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5019k1p10e8az ... o.dng?dl=0

Oh forgot to mention... the camera was probably manufactured in the last month as it has FW 3.3 already installed

looks clean

Here's another one from this morning... same Sigma 35mm at f16 (I think) 800 ISO
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5019k1p10e8az ... o.dng?dl=0

Here's another one from this morning... same Sigma 35mm at f16 (I think) 800 ISO
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5019k1p10e8az ... o.dng?dl=0

Nice one John, thanks.
Looks clean to me.
Can't wait for mine.

Hey John,

Thanks very much for testing and sharing frames!

I agree that I dont see much magenta, but to white balance I needed to go to 20,000 Kelvin on the first frame and over 16,000 on the second one.

What was the lighting?

Hey John,

Thanks very much for testing and sharing frames!

I agree that I dont see much magenta, but to white balance I needed to go to 20,000 Kelvin on the first frame and over 16,000 on the second one.

What was the lighting?

Hey no probs at all, glad to help out any way I can

Yeah the white page was shot on the patio in the afternoon so I could get an even light (lower) cos i shot some in direct morning sunlight earlier on and I was getting f/16 etc @ 200 ISO lol
The blue sky one was shot mid morning... I balanced it around 5000k with +10 tint in Photoshop... I have an LG 4K DCI monitor and the image looks exactly what I saw with those settings so am curious to what yours looks like

Here's another shot from the morning... Canon 50L f/1.2 @f/16...
https://www.dropbox.com/s/j30gs3o06ofjj ... 6.dng?dl=0

Here's another shot from the morning... Canon 50L f/1.2 @f/16...
https://www.dropbox.com/s/j30gs3o06ofjj ... 6.dng?dl=0

Looks really good. This is a promising development. I hope to see other people report similar results with their new BMUM46 cameras.

Ok, so here is the white paper shot. WB was 16,000 Kelvin!

Any thoughts on why?

If you could shoot something else white, rather than blue sky, that white balances at something like 5600Kelvin or whatever, that would certainly help?

Was this maybe a blue sky shot you got confused, and not a white paper shot?

WB 16k.jpg (539.46 KiB) Viewed 20929 times

Ok, so here is the white paper shot. WB was 16,000 Kelvin!

Any thoughts on why?

If you could shoot something else white, rather than blue sky, that white balances at something like 5600Kelvin or whatever, that would certainly help?

Was this maybe a blue sky shot you got confused, and not a white paper shot?

The attachment WB 16k.jpg is no longer available

Oh wow how interesting... I'm thinking possibly because I was shooting almost vertically down it may have reflected the blue in the sky + it was in shade therefore a cooler colour temp to start with...
I'm curious how you got the 20,000k temp on the sky photo though...

On my monitor the paper shot looks a lot brighter and has a little less magenta... hmmm interesting :/
This is what it looks like on my system (Sorry about the 4k monitor resolution lol)

Sigma 35-1.4 @f8 800iso White Balanced.jpg (484.07 KiB) Viewed 20881 times

Saturation/Vibrance turned up to +100

Sigma 35-1.4 @f8 800iso White Balanced + Extreme Sat-Vib.jpg (503.77 KiB) Viewed 20881 times

What it looks like on my system...

Sigma 35-1.4 @f16 (or maybe closer to f22).jpg (841.63 KiB) Viewed 20881 times

Had another go the the Sigma Art 50mm at f/16, ISO 800, Firecrest ND1.2, Histogram roughly centered.
Isn't that the worst case scenario?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8xa16g5v0tbm9 ... 2.dng?dl=0

Again here's the Sigma Art 50mm, F/16, ISO 800, Firecrest ND1.2

Sigma Art 50 @f16 800iso Firecrest ND1.2 White Balanced.jpg (482.88 KiB) Viewed 20862 times

Saturation/Vibrance both turned up to +100

Sigma Art 50 @f16 800iso Firecrest ND1.2 White Balanced + Extreme Sat-Vib.jpg (496.19 KiB) Viewed 20862 times

Hey John,

That's great! Much better!

Can I ask you to share one at f/8? I havent studied f/16 like I have studied f/8, so to keep it apples to apples Im hoping for f/8 on the Sigma 35mm?

Also what are the FIRST four digits of your serial number?

Thanks SO much this is VERY helpful!

nd anyone else who gets a new unit, if you are able to share a white wall or paper 35mm at f/8 RAW frame its so helpful for those of us trying to figure out whats happening with the sensors.

Thanks!

Hey John,

That's great! Much better!

Can I ask you to share one at f/8? I havent studied f/16 like I have studied f/8, so to keep it apples to apples Im hoping for f/8 on the Sigma 35mm?

Also what are the FIRST four digits of your serial number?

Thanks SO much this is VERY helpful!

nd anyone else who gets a new unit, if you are able to share a white wall or paper 35mm at f/8 RAW frame its so helpful for those of us trying to figure out whats happening with the sensors.

Thanks!

Oh yes I have done the Sigma 35mm @f8... here's the link again...
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5019k1p10e8az ... o.dng?dl=0

I'll do the Sigma 50mm @f8 tomorrow as well just to cover all bases

Yeah really happy with this camera, think its a keeper! and with more firmware updates it'll only get better Interestingly it has most magenta in the bottom lefthand corner and almost none in the top corners... I can live with that... especially nice to have non magenta sky corners lol

My first 4 digits are 3118 (what do they mean btw)

John,

Yes thanks, thats the one that needs to be above 16,000 Kelvin to WB.

What Im looking for is a white paper or wall, shot at 35mm and f/8 that white balances around 5600k.

When I see pictures of blue sky, and paper that white balances so far from 5600, I cant be sure if the magenta is missing because the sensor is new and better, or because at those temperatures, magenta is not found. Same with blue skies, you can see really bad magenta, but i think it hides slight magenta, and also you cant get a perfect WB on a blue sky.

So what I look for, to test the worst case scenario, and to keep my database apples to apples is 35mm, f/8 and a white source that balances at 5600 Kelvin

Also, that shot that balances at 16,000 Kelvin is weird to me. Could it be a blue sky pic that got confused? Because at 5600 Kelvin, it is very blue, and that would make sense.

I know no one is getting paid to do these tests, and anyone who could do the test already has a camera, so tthey do it to help us that dont have one. I truly appreciate the time people take to help out. Thank you VERY much!

Oh, and the serial number tells us when the camera was made chronologically. If we see new sensors are great, then knowing the lowest one that's great helps us to know if we are buying an older model or not.

That 3118... sensor looks much cleaner than my 2909...


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That 3118... sensor looks much cleaner than my 2909...

I'll be holding out for sensor 7777...something, then


.

Jaco, I know what you mean! But being young and foolish, I'm still glad I received my camera in early April. I knew it was a bit of a gamble and I'm still hopeful it will be fine for all intended purposes. This summer I'm shooting everything 2K/HD for my planned projects. There's a good possibility I'll be DPing a narrative project later with some local folks, so I hope my 4.6K open gate will be good by then.


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With my luck I'll get 6666.... My camera won't have magenta corners, it will have magenta demons.

That 3118... sensor looks much cleaner than my 2909...

I'll be holding out for sensor 7777...something, then


.

Ermm I think they call that Blackmagic Ursa Mini 4.6k Mark II

With my luck I'll get 6666.... My camera won't have magenta corners, it will have magenta demons.

Demonic? Tis the only way to go!!!

Jaco, I know what you mean! But being young and foolish, I'm still glad I received my camera in early April. I knew it was a bit of a gamble and I'm still hopeful it will be fine for all intended purposes. This summer I'm shooting everything 2K/HD for my planned projects. There's a good possibility I'll be DPing a narrative project later with some local folks, so I hope my 4.6K open gate will be good by then.


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Rick just stay away from blank walls and you'll be fine Still much firmwaring to go

John,

Yes thanks, thats the one that needs to be above 16,000 Kelvin to WB.

What Im looking for is a white paper or wall, shot at 35mm and f/8 that white balances around 5600k.

When I see pictures of blue sky, and paper that white balances so far from 5600, I cant be sure if the magenta is missing because the sensor is new and better, or because at those temperatures, magenta is not found. Same with blue skies, you can see really bad magenta, but i think it hides slight magenta, and also you cant get a perfect WB on a blue sky.

So what I look for, to test the worst case scenario, and to keep my database apples to apples is 35mm, f/8 and a white source that balances at 5600 Kelvin

Also, that shot that balances at 16,000 Kelvin is weird to me. Could it be a blue sky pic that got confused? Because at 5600 Kelvin, it is very blue, and that would make sense.

I know no one is getting paid to do these tests, and anyone who could do the test already has a camera, so tthey do it to help us that dont have one. I truly appreciate the time people take to help out. Thank you VERY much!

Oh, and the serial number tells us when the camera was made chronologically. If we see new sensors are great, then knowing the lowest one that's great helps us to know if we are buying an older model or not.

I can promise you it is Canson Infinity Semi-gloss (lustre) photo paper... I chose it for colour consistency and texture... but yeah really weird colour temp I know...

Ok new test for ya... this time using 2 Elinchrom Quadra's with their LED modeling lights (5600k) either side...

Sigma Art 35mm @ F/8, iso800

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w1vafdtht02k2 ... 0.dng?dl=0

Sigma Art 35 @f8 iso800 Default White Balance.jpg (384.14 KiB) Viewed 20587 times

Sigma Art 35mm @ F1.4, iso200

https://www.dropbox.com/s/uq6o3x4vy5vd7 ... 0.dng?dl=0

Sigma Art 35 @f1.4 iso200 Default White Balance.jpg (360.98 KiB) Viewed 20587 times

I enjoy doing these sort of tests, part of the job plus I need to know where my camera sits...
Hope these help!

Very nice!


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I think you clipped the f/1.4 pic, but it doesn't matter, f/1.4 is always clean. In the future close down the shutter angle to control exposure?

But the big news is the f/8 shot. Very very interesting.

All the right side magenta is indeed gone. The theory that some coating was dripping to one side seems possible. I cant say the cause of course, that's just a dumb guess, but it is clear that the right side magenta is GONE in your image.

There is a tiny bit of symmetrical magenta left, the kind they say they are working to fix in FW 4.0 so this is all very good reason for optimism. Very very good news indeed.

jjv2.jpg (530.3 KiB) Viewed 20852 times

If I see a few more cameras with higher serial numbers that all behave like this, I will believe that the new run of sensors are in good shape. This is starting to get very exciting.

I think you clipped the f/1.4 pic, but it doesn't matter, f/1.4 is always clean. In the future close down the shutter angle to control exposure?

But the big news is the f/8 shot. Very very interesting.

All the right side magenta is indeed gone. The theory that some coating was dripping to one side seems possible. I cant say the cause of course, that's just a dumb guess, but it is clear that the right side magenta is GONE in your image.

There is a tiny bit of symmetrical magenta left, the kind they say they are working to fix in FW 4.0 so this is all very good reason for optimism. Very very good news indeed.

jjv2.jpg

If I see a few more cameras with higher serial numbers that all behave like this, I will believe that the new run of sensors are in good shape. This is starting to get very exciting.

Oh the shutter angle **face palms

Yes bring on FW 4.0!!
The interesting thing is when you WB in the center of the image the tint is drastically increased from the default of 12 (earlier cameras defaulted 13)... not sure why, it certainly doesn't look any more neutral white/grey... just makes the magenta/green more obvious...
Using the Firecrest ND's seem to get rid of the magenta all right but introduced darker green corners (@1.4)
Also when I import these files into either resolve or premiere CC (especially premiere CC) I don't see any of the magenta colour shifts... AT ALL... seems odd...

Tony/Josh can we pwease have FW 4.0

A little bit of good news, guys. I went to Blackmagic event in Los Angeles couple days ago. Multiple Blackmagic people said that FW4.0 will be out within next 2-3 weeks. I played with it a bit, seems very nice. I did not see FPN or any magenta on the camera that I was playing with, not sure if its a FW or just the best copy out there. Another good thing to note is that now, when shooting ProRes you can choose pixel to pixel crop as oppose to downscaling from 4.6K. Meaning that if you shoot UltraHD you have the option to in fact use just the UltraHD area of the sensor, cropping the image a bit. Thats very useful when you have lenses that vignette or if you are using smaller filters that also create vignetting. Before you were only able to do that with RAW and if shooting prores you either use full sensor or a FullHD (2.4 crop) part of it.

On the sad note though, I did not see the option to program F button to serve as power button. False color is amazing though. Hope that helps anyone out there to decide buy or not. Im becoming more and more happy with my purchase! Shot about 20 projects already and a lot of stock footage during my road trip through California. All looks beautiful!

A little bit of good news, guys. I went to Blackmagic event in Los Angeles couple days ago. Multiple Blackmagic people said that FW4.0 will be out within next 2-3 weeks. I played with it a bit, seems very nice. I did not see FPN or any magenta on the camera that I was playing with, not sure if its a FW or just the best copy out there. Another good thing to note is that now, when shooting ProRes you can choose pixel to pixel crop as oppose to downscaling from 4.6K. Meaning that if you shoot UltraHD you have the option to in fact use just the UltraHD area of the sensor, cropping the image a bit. Thats very useful when you have lenses that vignette or if you are using smaller filters that also create vignetting. Before you were only able to do that with RAW and if shooting prores you either use full sensor or a FullHD (2.4 crop) part of it.

On the sad note though, I did not see the option to program F button to serve as power button. False color is amazing though. Hope that helps anyone out there to decide buy or not. Im becoming more and more happy with my purchase! Shot about 20 projects already and a lot of stock footage during my road trip through California. All looks beautiful!

Thanks Elnar for the update. Mine's on order, can't wait till it arrives!

Rick, if your camera is displaying magenta edges, you could always RMA it, now that the problem has been fixed! Now is the time to do it, before your summer project.
Cheers

It might be an easier technical problem to turn on the camera when any button is pressed. So when power is applied to the camera, set the micro in a low power mode that wakes up when it gets an event from any button press.

It would have the unwanted side effect of having the camera turn on when you don't want to turn it on, but a much better situation than not being able to turn on the camera when you do want it on.

Let's try that again.
Any word on whether or not the Magenta cast issue was further dealt with in FW4.0?
Beta testers out there? Tom?
I am not sure if you are allowed to talk about that or not but from what I remember your camera suffered from it a bit so if you are allowed to talk about that, you can shed some light on this for us.

Thanks in advance.

Eli.

A little bit of good news, guys. I went to Blackmagic event in Los Angeles couple days ago. Multiple Blackmagic people said that FW4.0 will be out within next 2-3 weeks. I played with it a bit, seems very nice. I did not see FPN or any magenta on the camera that I was playing with, not sure if its a FW or just the best copy out there. Another good thing to note is that now, when shooting ProRes you can choose pixel to pixel crop as oppose to downscaling from 4.6K. Meaning that if you shoot UltraHD you have the option to in fact use just the UltraHD area of the sensor, cropping the image a bit. Thats very useful when you have lenses that vignette or if you are using smaller filters that also create vignetting. Before you were only able to do that with RAW and if shooting prores you either use full sensor or a FullHD (2.4 crop) part of it.

On the sad note though, I did not see the option to program F button to serve as power button. False color is amazing though. Hope that helps anyone out there to decide buy or not. Im becoming more and more happy with my purchase! Shot about 20 projects already and a lot of stock footage during my road trip through California. All looks beautiful!

Hey guys! Just found out I was wrong and you CAN in fact use UltraHD window of the sensor while shooting ProRes so its not a new feature. You do get more options in 4.0 though.

Jaco, I know what you mean! But being young and foolish, I'm still glad I received my camera in early April. I knew it was a bit of a gamble and I'm still hopeful it will be fine for all intended purposes. This summer I'm shooting everything 2K/HD for my planned projects. There's a good possibility I'll be DPing a narrative project later with some local folks, so I hope my 4.6K open gate will be good by then.


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Hello Rick,

I'm not deliberately replying this late, sorry. I don't visit here that often any more and have been busy with some projects - together with being in the wild for some time, literally - as well. Nevertheless, don't fret too much and enjoy your camera. Also, take Denny's advice; he knows his stuff!

.

...and, I hope the narrative project works out for you. Sounds good. Good luck!

Thanks, Jaco.


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