Blackmagic Forum

I keep looking at the Kinefinity Mavo Edge camera and other than the completely unusable sensor in it, which makes it a non-starter, it's a really great camera full of great features. Blackmagic could buy Kinefinity, add their own sensor and have a new box camera out in a few months.

i REALLY hope we see something this summer... for purely selfish reasons.
I'm really enjoying the 12k, but i just don't know if i can manage the weight and battery demands in a 'travel-light' international documentary shoot.

Adam Langdon wrote:i REALLY hope we see something this summer... for purely selfish reasons.
I'm really enjoying the 12k, but i just don't know if i can manage the weight and battery demands in a 'travel-light' international documentary shoot.

Yeah, I'm also hoping for a new camera this summer/early fall. Especially an updated URSA Mini Pro design with a new Viewfinder as I need to replace my Viewfinder. I personally don't mind a little weight, but wouldn't mind if it could be a bit lighter. But I do prefer Gold and V-Mount Brick Battery. Maybe even the new B-Mount Battery could be an awesome option.

I would love to see two new versions of the 12K: URSA Mini Pro G4, and URSA Micro (box style camera).

Adam Langdon wrote:i REALLY hope we see something this summer... for purely selfish reasons.
I'm really enjoying the 12k, but i just don't know if i can manage the weight and battery demands in a 'travel-light' international documentary shoot.

Have you tried the new bebob micro batteries ? They’re really tiny, and do a great job. I’ve been using them for over a year now.

https://flic.kr/p/2mcV4Yt

Largest capacity you can easily take on a plane.

http://bebob.de/en/a98micro.html

JB

John Brawley wrote:

Adam Langdon wrote:i REALLY hope we see something this summer... for purely selfish reasons.
I'm really enjoying the 12k, but i just don't know if i can manage the weight and battery demands in a 'travel-light' international documentary shoot.

Have you tried the new bebob micro batteries ? They’re really tiny, and do a great job. I’ve been using them for over a year now.

https://flic.kr/p/2mcV4Yt

Largest capacity you can easily take on a plane.

http://bebob.de/en/a98micro.html

JB

I actually have the SWX Nano Micro batteries and they are great. Even show the percentage readout on my Ursa 12k.

I wonder if anything will be announced at Cine Gear this week?
Although, BMD has a habit or announcing products when they are ready...

And IBC in September is another perfect opportunity to make a splash with a new camera ready to ship along with the general release of DaVinci Resolve… just in time for my Fall shoots?

rick.lang wrote:And IBC in September is another perfect opportunity to make a splash with a new camera ready to ship along with the general release of DaVinci Resolve… just in time for my Fall shoots?

I think this is more likely than CineGear. But I did just have someone Private Message me on Facebook asking if I had heard of a camera announcement tomorrow for CineGear. I told them I found no evidence as usually there is a Tweet or Facebook Post announcing a Live Stream at least 2 days in advance.

Ultimately I'll be buying the next URSA camera.

Just received a promo for IBC2022 in which they detailed what major vendors such as AVID would be presenting. Notably absent from the list of details but a featured vendor is Blackmagic Design. Sure they have several new products released this year that could have been listed, but the silence is deafening—will they be bringing something we haven’t seen yet?

They also seem to have the biggest booth on the floor.

https://ibc22.mapyourshow.com/8_0/floor ... ooth=7.C49

I'm hoping BMD bring out something for continous AF, maybe a bluetooth Lidar-esq system that communicate with the lens info.

They just release a resolve 18, pocket 6kg2, atem sdi, and more… if they not wait for this period mean …. (Add you your thought )
I’m happy every time a see the smiling Grant, also if he not show newer products, he give us tons of great products in these last ten years.
I hope they stay a bit slower in products and concentrate their effort on software/firmware side to optimise that they just develop.
Recent gyro stabilizer was a great addition to existing tools.
Ps Grant you are free to amaze us with newer tools


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jallen0 wrote:They also seem to have the biggest booth on the floor.

https://ibc22.mapyourshow.com/8_0/floor ... ooth=7.C49

For the last few NAB and IBC BMDs booth has been the largest.

JB

Thanks John.

i know shows are a really great platform, but I've never fully expect BMD to do anything but showcase what they already have.... WHICH MEANS THEY'LL ANNOUNCE A NEW CAMERE BEFORE, right? haha

I'm just dying for a new camera, haha

IBC 2022 is next week... wonder if there will be any announcements?

Adam Langdon wrote:IBC 2022 is next week... wonder if there will be any announcements?

So far there are planned announcements from Hollyland Tech and Nanlux/Nanlite. So, there is a possibility we'll get a BMD announcement.

If I had to guess the Hollyland announcement is a new 4K Wireless Transmitter/Receiver System based on their tease.
Nanlux is introducing an Evoke 1200 Bi-Color from what I can guess based on the tease.

Blackmagic could introduce an update for Resolve which includes Presentations is out of private beta. Maybe it goes into Public Beta. Other Resolve features could become available. Then on the camera side an Firmware update for the 12K that includes the new features available now for the Pockets and Broadcast, including Gyro stabilization. If we're lucky a new camera product...

It's now two plus years since the 12K was introduced. So the URSA Mini Pro line is due for an update to the physical camera body/sensor. I'd love to see an URSA Mini Pro G4 and URSA Micro introduced.

jallen0

In this weird world of transnational business, the likelihood of BM buying a controlling interest in the entity which trades as Kinefinity is rather remote.

When BM's management is ready to sell their enterprise, it may be more likely that Kinefinity buys a controlling interest in BM, harvests the tech IP and moves the whole operation to mainland China.

The spanner in the works would be the Peoples Republic of China and Australia getting into a shooting war. That might ramp up a bit of business opportunity to bid for military hardware contracts.

However by the time it concludes, the last thing on anyone's mind will not be running around pressing record buttons on cameras but finding food and shelter which is not irradiated.

IBC begins Friday September 9, 2022. Same day that Apples opens orders for the iPhone 14 Pro with 48 megapixel camera and A16 4nm processor and up to 1TB storage. Looks appealing. Shoots ProRes 4K 24/30 fps video (or HDR) as well as 48MP raw photos. Will learn more details from YouTube than from Apple this week.

Yeah, Sony and Canon have already made announcements for new products. A new Canon 15-120mm Cinema Zoom Lens that is $30K in price tag, plus a new 4K HDR Color Grading Monitor.

We'll have to wait to see if Blackmagic announces anything.

I’m not expecting BMD and many small manufacturers to be coming out with new things other than accessories. Inflation worldwide is too high and saturated that manufacturers do not want to risk an inventory surplus. They rather just sell what the market can bear for now and there’s so much to go around to make any kind of content one one desires. Canon and Sony, as well as others coming out with high end high value products are really not something they expect people to go out a buy them, but more for rental companies to be their customers. They are unlike BMD who depends upon folks like you and me to buy their products outright, and that market has slowed down significantly.

Smartphones are certainly at the affordable end of the spectrum. Take a few minutes to scroll through the major camera features on the iPhone 14 Pro. Getting more capable all the time. If I purchase the phone, I’ll get the 1TB model likely for recording ProRes.

Well, Hasselblad just blew me away with their new Mirrorless Medium Format X2D 100C.



I don't know about the whole:

Ellory Yu wrote:I’m not expecting BMD and many small manufacturers to be coming out with new things other than accessories.

It feels as though Blackmagic is ripe to blow us away with something new. You know they have to be developing something. Even if they don't announce it for IBC it will still eventually be announced.

They have the killer sensor with the 12K. The 12K can get some improvements for sure in terms of more dynamic range and faster readout speed. But it doesn't need more resolution. So it comes down to the body housing it. And, since every one is asking for the "box camera" then I'm sure there will be a new URSA lineup. Or a new camera lineup with a new naming structure.

timbutt2 wrote:They have the killer sensor with the 12K. The 12K can get some improvements for sure in terms of more dynamic range and faster readout speed. But it doesn't need more resolution. So it comes down to the body housing it. And, since every one is asking for the "box camera" then I'm sure there will be a new URSA lineup. Or a new camera lineup with a new naming structure.

I hope your crystal ball is right on this. At the right price, that can be a good thing.

timbutt2 wrote:It feels as though Blackmagic is ripe to blow us away with something new. You know they have to be developing something. Even if they don't announce it for IBC it will still eventually be announced.

I'm not sure this is necessarily true, the first line anyway. I think they are caught somewhere between a rock and a hard place. The 12K, for some reason seems to have failed to hit the mark. It's revolutionary but it has yet to be approved by Netflix, perhaps mainly because of perceived workflow issues. Yes, I know who gives a stuff about Netflix but BMD probably do, and the UMPG2 is the only current product so approved and so if they were to replace it, something would have to take that place fast and surely.

I've no experience with the 12K but resolution on it, it seems to me, is not as clear a demonstrable gamechanger as many think. It's colour from what I can judge is its main strength and that sensor technology together with Braw, has a lot of mileage in it, not yet realised. Covid, war, fuel crisis and chip shortage mean 8K for consumer distribution is a long way off - the 2nd big theatrical cinema attendance death knell means DCPs are stuck at 4K/2K and most terrestrial TV and 60/70% of streaming is stuck at HD (legacy not new content I mean). Resolution and DR are not the issues any longer, only for obsessive pixel peepers; RS and aliasing still are. 6/8K vs 4K, FF/VV vs Super35, box vs full size, wars are largely marketing. Arri have shown that 4.6K and Super35 are more than good enough when properly implemented. For less than a 10th of the price the UMPG2 is still a very good camera, with good colour, rez and RS; the form factor is still very good IMV too (though I realise that will have to be addressed for launch wow). I'm not sure why it hasn't had a Gen 5 firmware update, maybe processing, but ultimately that should still not be sensibly a deal breaker. Whatever BMD have cooking they have to tread carefully in totally replacing it, maybe a G2 12K, with Prores as well, is more likely, as well as core market Pocket evolution?

Well I'm blown away: https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/media/ ... 0220909-01

This is actually big news. So awesome! Made a super expensive tool more affordable for the masses. Again, I'm blown away by this news. This is a worthy announcement.

Now, I'd love to see them bring Ultimatte technology to virtual cinema cameras. I think we'll be even more blown away next year with the new cinema camera line of cameras.

I also hope for some 12K sensor based new camera, less resolution, higher dynamic range, smaller body. The colors are great. Braw is killer. S35mm is enough.

But more than anything, I hope they improve their naming game. Please, no more BMPCC6KG2's

Man, i was really hoping for some new cine gear from BMD. perhaps tomorrow??? wishful thinking, i know, haha

I guess it's a sign of the times. Led is substituting green or blue screen and eventually might make keying old tech. I think sooner than later.


Ricardo Marty

ricardo marty wrote:I guess it's a sign of the times. Led is substituting green or blue screen and eventually might make keying old tech. I think sooner than later.


Ricardo Marty

Tough to say. There’s still a simplistic aspect to green screen that is useful. Especially for location filming where you can throw a green screen outside a window. LED walls are a bit impractical for that stuff still. And, in some cases green screens are lower cost that the LED walls.

I think the future will see a healthy mix of both approaches. Remember Andor decided not to use the Volume for the show. I’m sure they used green/blue screen for some VFX sequences still.


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I think at IBC, they're just getting all of they broadcast updates out of the way... right? haha
AND THEN Q4... a new Cine Camera!!!!

Adam Langdon wrote:I think at IBC, they're just getting all of they broadcast updates out of the way... right? haha
AND THEN Q4... a new Cine Camera!!!!

That's likely. Today we got the big Nanlux Evoke 1200B announcement. A 1200 Bi-Color light is pretty exciting! The lighting technology is moving so fast these days. Faster than cameras. I kind of hate it because it makes investing long term in lighting a challenge. But nonetheless it is pretty awesome.

Then Hollyland introduced their 4K Wireless Transmitter. It's a starting promise, but only goes to 450 FT distance wise with 0.06ms latency for 4K, and for only $700 USD. So it will be exciting to see in the future more options. They also did a Wireless Monitor, which is also a transmitter along with being a receiver. So that was cool.

Teradek also introduced another Wireless Transmitter and Receiver System capable of 4K.

Then SmallHD introduced a couple new 5" monitors.

So there are products. We'll just have to wait and see what Blackmagic does next. It's clear they are working behind the scenes on new designs considering they are using all the existing designs for the recent products. So maybe next year we'll see a big move in a new direction for the camera bodies and the options. Maybe not. Either way, we'll see when Blackmagic is ready to reveal it.

In the meantime, I ordered the iPhone 14 Pro early this morning so none of you girls and boys need to waste your money on that. Almost zero information about the camera and recording details beyond the highest level, but by the time it actually arrives we’ll all know more. Before you certify me insane, it’s been 6 years since my previous extravagance, so go on easy on me.

I’ll run that through a bunch of tests. Looking forward to Action Mode in-camera stabilization. No cats here.

rick.lang wrote:In the meantime, I ordered the iPhone 14 Pro early this morning so none of you girls and boys need to waste your money on that. Almost zero information about the camera and recording details beyond the highest level, but by the time it actually arrives we’ll all know more. Before you certify me insane, it’s been 6 years since my previous extravagance, so go on easy on me.

I’ll run that through a bunch of tests. Looking forward to Action Mode in-camera stabilization. No cats here.

Well, I bought the iPhone 13 Pro last year... so, I understand. But I upgrade my iPhone once every three-years. If I can make the phone last four-years then even better.

I look forward to your tests.

Ouch!

Adam Langdon wrote:I think at IBC, they're just getting all of they broadcast updates out of the way... right? haha
AND THEN Q4... a new Cine Camera!!!!

Do you want Q4 flavour of braw ?


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rick.lang wrote:In the meantime, I ordered the iPhone 14 Pro early this morning so none of you girls and boys need to waste your money on that. Almost zero information about the camera and recording details beyond the highest level, but by the time it actually arrives we’ll all know more. Before you certify me insane, it’s been 6 years since my previous extravagance, so go on easy on me.

I’ll run that through a bunch of tests. Looking forward to Action Mode in-camera stabilization. No cats here.

iPhone seven plus here, and I’m quite tempted to do the buying, but … you told no cats …
It’s a problem
I wait to see what you will think about it.


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If others can develop cameras which focus on a bird‘s eye, can’t we have a phone that denies recording of cats?

"Rick Lang. In the meantime, I ordered the iPhone 14 Pro --- "

I was almost kickingly and screamingly forced to give up using my Nokia 5110 and have an Alcatel which was supplied by my services provider. Apparently the next lower step in the hierachy of mobile communication is a torch and morse code.

I hung on to the old 2G network for as long as absolutely possible because -- as people obeyed like good little daleks and moved off 2G, the to-be-discontinued service became better and better until finally the switch was turned off.

People on the train commute stopped looking at me weird-like once I had a glass fronted phone in my hand.

So the camera which I eventually discovered was in the phone ended up being used and become a convenient comfort to which I have become guiltily accustomed.

Welcome to my luddite world.

carlomacchiavello wrote:iPhone seven plus here, and I’m quite tempted to do the buying, but … you told no cats …
It’s a problem
I wait to see what you will think about it.

Yes, it’s the iPhone 7 Plus that I’m giving up, partially because iOS 16 won’t support any phone older than the iPhone 8. I know Apple’s hardware seems to be falling behind other camera vendors and has even drawn public disdain from Steve Job’s daughter, but I’m trying to keep up with the software. I do roll my eyes that the iPhone 14 Pro that can fill a terabyte of ProRes 4K recordings still uses Lightning… grrrgh!

I understand there will be 187 reviews on YouTube that include cats. But I don’t have a cat. Maybe I can substitute a catty family member.

robert Hart wrote:… So the camera which I eventually discovered was in the phone ended up being used and become a convenient comfort to which I have become guiltily accustomed...

True. I love shooting with the purist images from BMD that are barely touched by their cameras. The malleable images are brought to life in DaVinci Resolve in so many possible ways that suit your individual artistic goals.

Apple is at the other extreme where the captured images are created by the image processing with so many effects and modes baked in. In a way it is a good alternative. And it’s always ready to shoot stills or video as is.

Kim Janson wrote:I visited BMD stand yesterday at IBC, huge stand, huge presence at IBC like the always have, but was a bit disappointed to find this instead of new BMD micro camera. Not quite sure what to make of it.

Let's take a moment...

Here's a camera that everyone screams for....The box camera everyone says they must have....It probably AF's better than anything BMD can do...It even can do BRAW externally. And yet...they aren't exactly flying off the shelves....why is that?

JB

Reading posts, It looks like some members are addicted to BMD camera like drug

I wish we had a color and dynamic range war going instead of resolution, sensor size, AF, IBIS, stupid high ISO ect wars.
The cries for the latter unfortunately spread over from the consumer and hybrid camera field to the affordable cinema camera field.

Michel Rabe wrote:I wish we had a color and dynamic range war going instead of resolution, sensor size, AF, IBIS, stupid high ISO ect wars.
The cries for the latter unfortunately spread over from the consumer and hybrid camera field to the affordable cinema camera field.

Arri just "dropped the mic" by doing the Alexa 35. Super 35mm at 4.6K with 17 Stops of DR, and amazing color. There is no AF, IBIS, nor extremely high ISO options.

I know someone who got to play with the Alexa 35 and said it's the best camera to date. They were amazed by the footage that came out of it. And, this is a person who has used the 8K REDs and the 12K UMP. Ultimately to them the dynamic range and color out of the Alexa 35 was more important than higher resolutions.

That said, I wouldn't mind Blackmagic pushing their 12K sensor since it is their sensor that they designed. I'd love to see the next generation of 12K sensors have higher dynamic range and faster sensor readout speeds. Otherwise it's all the housing of that sensor with physical body improvements.

They dropped the mic and probably for the next ten years. Again.

Arri has a completely different approach to their cameras, all they care about is aesthetics. Incredibly, no-one else seems to do.

The original BMCC to me was the first camera trying to take the same approach. BMD lost it a little imo with their later cams, especially the Sony sensor ones, but the 12K sensor gave me hope again.

Totally agree with you, give it more dynamic range (and screw the 12K) at that one could be a great second place :=)

The iPhone 14 Pro has lenses that use 48 million physical 1.2 micron photosites but logically a 12 million 2.4 micron CFA. The reviews I’ve seen say they don’t see any real improvement comparing photos taken by the iPhone 14 Pro and the iPhone 13 Pro. Disappointing.

I also agree chasing image quality should be BMD’s strength and don’t understand why they won’t build a real 6K DCI Super 35 sensor with RGBWWW array and 4.4 micron photosites. Surely that would be a step in the right direction.

Apple’s approach on the iPhone 14 Pro is making a logical 2.4 micron photosite from four physical 1.2 micron photosites via their CFA. BMD’s use of all their physical photosites does use the clear photosites to advantage (which are half the total photosites) to determine luminosity, but they don’t use simple photosite binning for the Colour values. Apple’s approach in raw should produce improved details compared to previous sensors. Until I can get the camera, I’m not understanding why the reviewers are so underwhelmed with the new approach unless it only shows up when processing raw and they’re not shooting raw when comparing cameras.

As I understand it the major criticism of the iPhone 14 Pro camera is the same as in the previous model, excessive noise reduction and sharpening. For HEIC images and HEVC/ProRes videos you can't turn it off or customize it. Sadly it's very visible in the videos I've seen shot in ProRes. For ProRaw images you can do what you want in other supported editing apps of course. Edit: I just learned that ProRaw files contain debayered data, but it's not clear to me if they apply the exact same processing. In the Halide camera app you can turn some of it off.

One workaround if you use the Live Photos feature with HEIC compression is that you can select another frame as the key frame. This new key frame won't have the excessive sharpening. Apple needs to fix this but I guess they expect the average user to prefer this automatic processing (and they're probably right).

Mine is scheduled for delivery tomorrow. It's been four years since I bought a smartphone so it should be an upgrade regardless.

Kim Janson wrote:Does the iPhone 14 have a fast USB/thunderbolt interface?

No, it's still a Lightning port with USB 2.0 speed which is just ridiculous considering it shoots 4K Apple ProRes video and has up to 1TB internal storage. Maybe next year.

I think the best way of offloading video at the moment is to use a reputable WiFi 6 access point.

This is what happens when BMD doesn't make a camera announcement - we're talking iPhones