Blooming Sensor Update

BA-TTE-RY!!

It's getting better and better

wow i didn't know about that, got a link to that issue for alexa?

First 2 links.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=black ... 8&hl=en-gb

lol the almighty alexa hahaha

Now BMD let's fix the "Black Dot Issue" that is persistent in the BMC EF, MFT and BMPC.



Cheers

pro.

You mean the same issue that the Arri Alexa has too?

wow i didn't know about that, got a link to that issue for alexa?

The black spot issue is common to all CMOS sensors. If a camera is not displaying it it is almost certainly masking it. Masking it hides the symptom but does nothing to the cause, since the masking is done in camera a warning to say its doing it would be an idea as it would help protect the sensor.

the black dot on the alexa is no where near the same thing as the BMD, if all my nikons and gopros are fine, why cant my BMD?

The black spot issue is common to all CMOS sensors. If a camera is not displaying it it is almost certainly masking it. Masking it hides the symptom but does nothing to the cause, since the masking is done in camera a warning to say its doing it would be an idea as it would help protect the sensor.

Well now that's just fabricating suspicions out of thin air (and does not advance this discussion). For example, I doubt that a camera "not displaying it" has After Effects-style motion trackers masking out the flaw in real-time. And anyway, the debate here is about the severity of the problem on the BMPC, rather than the universality of the flaw.

Camera operator ( Alexa -RED - C500 ... ) and camera(s) owner here making the first posting after reading all the pages related on this thread - full fireproof jacket on.

A call to all the posters on this thread : " Did you find anything good in this camera !? "

After all just a week ago you were gathering in small and larger groups for wild masturbating sessions with imaginary BMPCC on your minds with all those announced feature ! The features that are all there or will be delivered soon. It's the first revision of a dream camera in your hands. Embrace it and continue to be the brave one that took the risk of pre-ordering base on a trust. You don't like it, there is a permanent issue in it that bothers you out of you daylight - just return the PHULKING thing.
Creating virtual mobs and " Gangs of Internet " won't help anybody. Many of the posts on this thread are just stupid or ridiculous.
Again - this is the revision one of a VERY UNIQUE camera and you chose to be the early adopter so take the pain of being the early adopter.

Um. Anyway. No.

Order strangers around much? What's your success rate in their physical presence? (It wouldn't go well with me, I assure you.)

I just received my pocket camera. i believe i am experiencing blooming in my footage but I don't want to send in my camera just yet. i have to much work in the month of september. would i be eligible to send it in at later date to get calibrated? how much time do i have before i can no longer get my camera calibrated?

also, how long should i expect to have wait the day i drop off my camera off to get shipped, before i will have it back in my hand?

thanks!

One of the BMD reps said there is no time limit for the sensor recalibration to reduce blooming. The update itself only takes a couple of hours so the delay will really be shipping and receiving especially if you wait a month when the flurry of activity will have been complete.

Rick Lang
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

The black spot issue is common to all CMOS sensors. If a camera is not displaying it it is almost certainly masking it. Masking it hides the symptom but does nothing to the cause, since the masking is done in camera a warning to say its doing it would be an idea as it would help protect the sensor.

Well now that's just fabricating suspicions out of thin air (and does not advance this discussion). For example, I doubt that a camera "not displaying it" has After Effects-style motion trackers masking out the flaw in real-time. And anyway, the debate here is about the severity of the problem on the BMPC, rather than the universality of the flaw.

Or as the commonly known phrase is a small amount of research on the issue. It's caused by an overload of the pixels on the sensor without a physical change to the sensor, or reducing the amount of light hitting it (again a physical change) a software change can only be masking the symptoms not fixing the cause.

I never said that there was an After Effects style motion tracker blotting it out, that is an absurd idea.

In realty there are ways to determine that a black spot in the middle of clipping highlights is likely caused by this and just replace the values with clipped whites. No need to track.

The severity and how commonplace a flaw it are not entirely separate, and the latter is useful if nothing else in suggesting how easy a 'fix' is. And indeed whether a certain fix is worth the side effects it may have.

Can someone make a tutorial how to remove the black spot in AE or Resolve?

I recently had it in one scene and used the repair tool in Photoshop on over 200 frames...Took me many hours.

Can someone make a tutorial how to remove the black spot in AE or Resolve?

I recently had it in one scene and used the repair tool in Photoshop on over 200 frames...Took me many hours.

In AE you can use tracker to follow the spot, create a null object, create a mask and feather it, perhaps use curves to the mask to get the right color and light.

Or duplicate your clip, create a rotoscope from your light with out the spot, connect it to a tracked null object ontop of original clip.

Go to Videocopilot.net there is the best AE /vfx tutorials

I´ll have a look at that, thanks!

Camera operator ( Alexa -RED - C500 ... ) and camera(s) owner here making the first posting after reading all the pages related on this thread - full fireproof jacket on.

A call to all the posters on this thread : " Did you find anything good in this camera !? "

After all just a week ago you were gathering in small and larger groups for wild masturbating sessions with imaginary BMPCC on your minds with all those announced feature ! The features that are all there or will be delivered soon. It's the first revision of a dream camera in your hands. Embrace it and continue to be the brave one that took the risk of pre-ordering base on a trust. You don't like it, there is a permanent issue in it that bothers you out of you daylight - just return the PHULKING thing.
Creating virtual mobs and " Gangs of Internet " won't help anybody. Many of the posts on this thread are just stupid or ridiculous.
Again - this is the revision one of a VERY UNIQUE camera and you chose to be the early adopter so take the pain of being the early adopter.

Thanks for the sane and rational comments.
As a frequent early adopter I accept the risk of disappointment and the waiting.
Mostly I'm rewarded with the satisfaction of having the latest in innovation, or else if my expectations are not met, I cut my losses and move on.

I am really looking forward to the BM4K, but with eyes open.
Since I learned about the 4K and it's new sensor, I have been scrutinising all information I can find on it and it is shaping up to be a sensation.

It is heartening to see that the Pocket is proving to be a winner.
I want to get one as well.

Can someone make a tutorial how to remove the black spot in AE or Resolve?

Mocha AE comes with after effects, and it has a cool replace function that works really well for the black spot.

[Joshua Helling]

I just received my pocket camera. i believe i am experiencing blooming in my footage but I don't want to send in my camera just yet. i have to much work in the month of september. would i be eligible to send it in at later date to get calibrated? how much time do i have before i can no longer get my camera calibrated?

also, how long should i expect to have wait the day i drop off my camera off to get shipped, before i will have it back in my hand?

thanks!

There is no time cutoff. So if you're seeing this and you want to wait a month, that's fine. Call us after!

As for turn around, the procedure should only take a couple of hours, so typically we will ship it back out the next day.

Wow, I'm so glad you guys seem to have fixed this major issue! Really glad you guys have been able to answer most of everyone's questions, too!

My question is, how can I know a new BMPCC model will have the updated calibration? Is there a serial number (like someone else suggested) I can watch for, so I know that I will be getting an orb-less camera?

Your awesome responsiveness to this whole thing has been incredible! Never seen a company actually do all of this before, pretty outstanding! You now have me as a customer for sure!

Now I just need to wait for those updated BMPCC models and I'll be golden!

[Joshua Helling]

My question is, how can I know a new BMPCC model will have the updated calibration? Is there a serial number (like someone else suggested) I can watch for, so I know that I will be getting an orb-less camera?

Essentially if you do not currently have one, you are not likely to get one. This seems to be limited to some of the earliest production models. However should you somehow end up with one, we'll do the re-calibration for you anyways. But I am confident it won't happen.

Your awesome responsiveness to this whole thing has been incredible! Never seen a company actually do all of this before, pretty outstanding! You now have me as a customer for sure!

Thanks for this, though i've only been active on this thread for a little bit. I'm glad we could help.

Essentially if you do not currently have one, you are not likely to get one. This seems to be limited to some of the earliest production models. However should you somehow end up with one, we'll do the re-calibration for you anyways. But I am confident it won't happen.

Ah, ok. Makes sense and is sort of what I figured! I'll probably wait a couple of weeks just to make sure (and also to save up a few more bucks for some lenses ), and thanks for the quick reply!

My question is, how can I know a new BMPCC model will have the updated calibration? Is there a serial number (like someone else suggested) I can watch for, so I know that I will be getting an orb-less camera?

Essentially if you do not currently have one, you are not likely to get one. This seems to be limited to some of the earliest production models. However should you somehow end up with one, we'll do the re-calibration for you anyways. But I am confident it won't happen.

Your awesome responsiveness to this whole thing has been incredible! Never seen a company actually do all of this before, pretty outstanding! You now have me as a customer for sure!

Thanks for this, though i've only been active on this thread for a little bit. I'm glad we could help.

Thanks Joshua. Now if we can get BMD to address some of the niggly issues surrounding the BMCC, life would be perfect:) We all understand that no product is ever perfect, but just acknowledging an issue and saying it's going to be addressed makes customers, or potential customers, feel a lot more comfortable with the product.

Thanks,

Ron Haley

Thanks Joshua. Now if we can get BMD to address some of the niggly issues surrounding the BMCC, life would be perfect:) We all understand that no product is ever perfect, but just acknowledging an issue and saying it's going to be addressed makes customers, or potential customers, feel a lot more comfortable with the product.

Thanks,

Ron Haley

Yea thanks Josh, I think I speak for everyone when I say that If we can get a similar response regarding the audio and the black spot issues then that would be highly awesome.
Thanks. W.I

I put my hat in the ring for good audio and audio level indicators in the camera display, too.
Thanks for all the hard work in getting problems addressed.

Audio issues? I haven't heard anything about that. Not a big problem since I plan on getting an old H4n anyway, but I am curious as to what people are talking about!

Using a Zucato EVF to monitor audio, a Sennheizer Video mic, which has audio gain control, (which works great with my Nikons) has lower input to camera than built in mic. This is same result PB got with Videomic. Haven't tried using my mixer yet, doing so next week. Audio from camera sounds ok, just level is low. Biggest issue is no in camera level indicators.

The black dot in the sun is a very easy thing to mask out in AE but...

I wish everybody good luck and many patient work hours trying to eliminate the black dot on every headlight of cars during night scenes.

That IS a nightmare! And there is no solution to this a s you can't use ND during night scenes!

There must be a software update to solve this issue. Otherwise you will spend hours and hours in postpro with night footage of the BMD!

Cheers

pro.

Using a Zucato EVF to monitor audio, a Sennheizer Video mic, which has audio gain control, (which works great with my Nikons) has lower input to camera than built in mic. This is same result PB got with Videomic. Haven't tried using my mixer yet, doing so next week. Audio from camera sounds ok, just level is low. Biggest issue is no in camera level indicators.

Oh hi, Denny!

Sorry couldn't resist

@pro---studio:

There are plenty of night scenes shot with the camera that show headlights. No black spots are apparent in any of them. It appears only when shooting directly into the sun or other intense light source.

I do remember hearing about the gain in the camera having some issues, now. Like Denny said, just low.

This won't be a problem for me since I'll be using the H4n, but it would be nice to get fixed for sure!

I'm sure levels can be added with a firmware update soon!

I just received my pocket camera. i believe i am experiencing blooming in my footage but I don't want to send in my camera just yet. i have to much work in the month of september. would i be eligible to send it in at later date to get calibrated? how much time do i have before i can no longer get my camera calibrated?

also, how long should i expect to have wait the day i drop off my camera off to get shipped, before i will have it back in my hand?

thanks!

There is no time cutoff. So if you're seeing this and you want to wait a month, that's fine. Call us after!

As for turn around, the procedure should only take a couple of hours, so typically we will ship it back out the next day.

I apologize if this question has been asked before this will be my first post on this Forum. I am located in Canada, British Columbia specifically how can I go about an RMA to have my camera re-calibrated? Also is sending it back to California the only option as of now??

I apologize if this question has been asked before this will be my first post on this Forum. I am located in Canada, British Columbia specifically how can I go about an RMA to have my camera re-calibrated? Also is sending it back to California the only option as of now??

You need to call the BM support line in Canada:tel: +1 408 954 0500

They will then get you to fill in a form and then arrange an RMA for you. It will most likely get re-calibrated in Canada.

hmmm - black dots in the headlights - just as i said!

Cheers

pro.

Easy to fix. Two little dots are better than tons of giant white orbs.

And again, it happened because those lights were directly pointed at the camera. All of the others are fine.

Those black dots are easily fixed in DaVinci Resolve, no problem at all.
The white orbs would have been a nightmare.

Easy to fix. Two little dots are better than tons of giant white orbs.

And again, it happened because those lights were directly pointed at the camera. All of the others are fine.

Yes right - easy to fix. But do you want to search in every shot that you did for black dots? It is still a nightmare if you have to check every single clipped highlight in a nighttime shot. And even then you can't be sure that you didn't miss some of them.

But I agree - Black Dots are better than White Orbs

It's the same as if someone would say Pestilence is better than Cholera.

Cheers

pro.

It's easy to fix black dots if they're isolated. But what about when your lead actress flings her hair in front of the black dot in the middle of the sun? hmmmm, not so easy to fix.

It's easy to fix black dots if they're isolated. But what about when your lead actress flings her hair in front of the black dot in the middle of the sun? hmmmm, not so easy to fix.

Shoot film.

It's easy to fix black dots if they're isolated. But what about when your lead actress flings her hair in front of the black dot in the middle of the sun? hmmmm, not so easy to fix.

There is nothing in film making that is un-compromised. In drama it's routine to storyboard and every shot is meticulously planned. If you don't want a post production headache, plan your shots so you never place the lead actress directly in front of the sun in a way that might result in a black dot. Just like you don't shoot the lead actress so they have hard shadows on their face making them look wrinkled with a double chin.

So what's the bottom line as of today, Sep 8th?

Did BM succeed in "recalibrating" BMPCC sensors to eliminate the white orb problem, or did it not?

It's easy to fix black dots if they're isolated. But what about when your lead actress flings her hair in front of the black dot in the middle of the sun? hmmmm, not so easy to fix.

There is nothing in film making that is un-compromised. In drama it's routine to storyboard and every shot is meticulously planned. If you don't want a post production headache, plan your shots so you never place the lead actress directly in front of the sun in a way that might result in a black dot. Just like you don't shoot the lead actress so they have hard shadows on their face making them look wrinkled with a double chin.

or fix the problem on the front end, before the story boards, in the gear

or fix the problem on the front end, before the story boards, in the gear

It is a CMOS problem. Not a BMD problem. Read. Learn. Understand.

it is a pro problem at a consumer level price, that is my issue, my nikons and go pros do not do it

i received my camera less than a week ago. here is a video my friend and i made. can anyone tell me if they believe my camera is suffering from the white orb issue?

thanks

it is a pro problem at a consumer level price, that is my issue, my nikons and go pros do not do it

Nikons are still cameras. Go Pros are crap. Your choice is to act like a consumer or a pro.

it is a pro problem at a consumer level price, that is my issue, my nikons and go pros do not do it

Nikons are still cameras. Go Pros are crap. Your choice is to act like a consumer or a pro.

Why are GoPros "crap"? Do you claim that no one can make something worthwhile on a GoPro?

I own one and love it. It's not competing for the same space as the Pocket Camera or DSLRs, but its very versatile. It has great resolution options, frame rates, it's super durable, and the ProTune mode is fantastic.

it is a pro problem at a consumer level price, that is my issue, my nikons and go pros do not do it

Nikons are still cameras. Go Pros are crap. Your choice is to act like a consumer or a pro.

Why are GoPros "crap"? Do you claim that no one can make something worthwhile on a GoPro?

I own one and love it. It's not competing for the same space as the Pocket Camera or DSLRs, but its very versatile. It has great resolution options, frame rates, it's super durable, and the ProTune mode is fantastic.

If that's the gold standard for you, I wouldn't think of challenging it.

Whatever floats your boat, man.

Just curious, are the black dots from clipped highlights actually true black? (#000000)
If so wouldn't it be simple to get rid of them in AE even if they appear between strands of hair?

I think it's clear that the white orbs is a bug that shouldn't have been present in the production model. No other cameras I know of produce such severe artifacts. I did cancel my own pre-order based on the white orbs problem.

Seems like BM has sorted it out now, via "recalibration" process. I'd like to see more user evidence that it really happened before I reinstate my order. So far we have BM's word (and one user's video I saw on the previous page of this thread) that it did.

i received my camera less than a week ago. here is a video my friend and i made. can anyone tell me if they believe my camera is suffering from the white orb issue?

thanks

If you don't see it, it doesn't (just kidding)

Unfortunately yes it does. See the light in 0:05, 0:11etc. in 0:05 you see that it
it's not only blurred light in the background as it affects the pole at the right side.
Go and shoot in daylight sun reflecting in chrome glass etc. you will see it too.

I just received my pocket camera. i believe i am experiencing blooming in my footage but I don't want to send in my camera just yet. i have to much work in the month of september. would i be eligible to send it in at later date to get calibrated? how much time do i have before i can no longer get my camera calibrated?

also, how long should i expect to have wait the day i drop off my camera off to get shipped, before i will have it back in my hand?

thanks!

There is no time cutoff. So if you're seeing this and you want to wait a month, that's fine. Call us after!

As for turn around, the procedure should only take a couple of hours, so typically we will ship it back out the next day.

Hi Joshua,
Just a quick clarification. Regarding the black sun issue for the BMCC...is this also a situation where we have to send our cameras in for recalibration or is this something you feel can or will be addressed in a future firmware update? Right now I am having the black sun appear whenever the sun enters my frame. There are times when I purposefully want the flare and don't want to have to track all of my shots in post to remove it?
Any info would be appreciated
Thanks

The white orb issues seems (!) to be sorted out. Cameras already sold that show the white orbs can be sent to BMD for "recalibration", newer cameras should not show the issue anymore.

The recalibration does not fix the black spot issue, and it's likely that it can not be fixed in hardware.

Software fixes in post are easy, yet a pita to do when you have a lot of black spots to iron out. I wonder if there is no simple filter/plugin to do it automatically?

Just curious, are the black dots from clipped highlights actually true black? (#000000)
If so wouldn't it be simple to get rid of them in AE even if they appear between strands of hair?

That's exactly my thinking. As i understand it (don't have my camera yet) the black spots can only appear _inside_ clipped highlights, exactly #000000 pixels in between #ffffff pixels. Even when sunlight shines through hair you should only find black spots in clipped areas. The black pixels always have to be turned completely white (at least at ISO 800 recordings, lower ISOs may map the clipped highlights to lower values!).

Still it would be _very_ usefull if the camera could filter out the spots before ProRes compression.

If anyone has native footage, ProRes or raw (BMCC is fine too) with the symptoms, complicated (through branches, hair etc) or simple (headlights/sun), I'd be glad to try come up with something!

it is a pro problem at a consumer level price, that is my issue, my nikons and go pros do not do it

Nikons are still cameras. Go Pros are crap. Your choice is to act like a consumer or a pro.

Why are GoPros "crap"? Do you claim that no one can make something worthwhile on a GoPro?

I own one and love it. It's not competing for the same space as the Pocket Camera or DSLRs, but its very versatile. It has great resolution options, frame rates, it's super durable, and the ProTune mode is fantastic.

GoPros are great sports/POV cameras but they don't compare to a professional camera.
I love my GoPro and use it often but I wont be shooting a feature with it.

I hope that by "great reolution options" you are not refering to the advertised 4k lol that is basically useless. Sorry. Not very professional or helpfull of me really. Just an opinion I guess. I love go pros for simple sports stuff. But I think they overdid it by claiming to have use able 4k data off of a censor the size of a fly.