Pocket 6K Pro

Having mix feelings. Underwhelmed it has kept the sensor from previous gen camera and not 8k and FF, no AF improvement and no IBIS.

There is no IBIS possible when you do cool the sensor like BMD is doing it.
For IBIS you have to move the sensor super precisely and that is not gonna work with a peltier cooler pack on the back.

You can read here what Olympus needed to do for their sensor stabilization and how complicated that is:
https://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2 ... th-olympus

BMD price drop for the original BMPCC6K as noted, but BMPCC4K stays the same and that’s understandable. Glad to see the older two cameras are still offered.

The Pocket 6K Pro looks pretty awesome camera for the price point, improved on many areas over the Pocket 6K

- Battery and battery grip
- Buildin ND
- Bright screen
- EFV

And price not that much more than the pocket 6K Why would astandard nyone by the old Pocket 6K?

It's classic upselling, plus maybe inventory in the pipeline. Blackmagic may also want to be sure that the Pro will sell.

I won't be surprised if the Pocket 6K is discontinued sometime in the next six months. There would be two cameras, a Pocket 4K and a Pocket 6K Pro. From a marketing perspective, it works.

That EF mount is heartbreaking. It locks me out of too many of my vintage lenses. It's really too bad, if it came with an L-Mount or some other easily adaptable mount it would be on top of my buy-list.

Neither 8K nor FF are particularly important to very many people. Just look around; most productions are still using Super35, and those are still dominated by sub-4K cameras.

And Red's best selling camera is a 6K Super35 camera, not one of its 8K bigger brothers... meanwhile, Black Magic's worst selling camera is the 12K because the same people who complain the most about 8K used 12K as an excuse to criticize the camera.

I expect that the moment that Red announces a camera with a resolution higher than 8K, that will be the new envy resolution that people start complaining that Black Magic doesn't offer. Never mind that the people complaining about Black Magic's cameras maxing out at "only" 6K are rarely actually making any movies...

We all know this thing is huge, why don’t they just call it the cinema camera 6k, drop the pocket name. But maybe this is finally a BM camera that doesn’t need to be rigged, which would be cool. Seems to be targeting the Canon c70 more than Komodo, but less than half the price of either.

I would love to see these upgrades on the 4K mft model, but seems unlikely.

That EF mount is heartbreaking. It locks me out of too many of my vintage lenses. It's really too bad, if it came with an L-Mount or some other easily adaptable mount it would be on top of my buy-list.

L-Mount isn't open for other manufacturers outside the L-mount alliance.
https://l-mount.com/en/Q-and-A

E-Mount, L-mount, RF-mount are not possible for Blackmagic.

That leaves us with these options: MFT-, PL-, EF-, F- and B4-mount

What would you prefer?

Maybe a redesign that will allow both the PL and EF mounts to be swapped out. Only because since the reis a kit for that there is some demand for it.

So as you know Blackmagic just announced the new BMPCC 6K Pro and here are my thoughts on it.

I have been shooting with the BMPCC6K since its release and for me being mostly a documentary filmmaker those new features are amazing.

Cheers,
Flo

Kudos to BMD for focusing on practical usability features that will have real tangible benefits rather than chasing YouTube/Headline bait.

These are solid updates to a solid product that position it well to compete with the Canon C70 and the Sony FX3, for far less money. (The only real meaningful difference being lack of CAF.)

I found it curious that they didn't move to their own sensor tech, but, honestly, the real world PQ improvements on the Ursa 12K have proven pretty minimal.

If there was a stumble, it's the lens mount. RF would have been preferable for obvious reasons.

What I don't understand, though, is the point of keeping the "old" 6K in the lineup? By a few extra batteries and a decent ND filter set and you're pretty much at the price of the "new" 6K.

E-Mount, L-mount, RF-mount are not possible for Blackmagic.

That leaves us with these options: MFT-, PL-, EF-, F- and B4-mount.

That effectively means that my next camera will be another brand. I'm not prepared to start replacing lenses, which means that my options are Leica-mount, Canon RF, Sony FZ and Sony E. MFT is also an option, but I'm skeptical about its future and not in a hurry to purchase another MFT camera.

L-Mount isn't open for other manufacturers outside the L-mount alliance.
https://l-mount.com/en/Q-and-A

E-Mount, L-mount, RF-mount are not possible for Blackmagic.

That leaves us with these options: MFT-, PL-, EF-, F- and B4-mount

What would you prefer?

Personally I'm super invested in MFT, but why can't BMD join the L-Mount Alliance? Why can't they license the RF-mount? RED did.

What I don't understand, though, is the point of keeping the "old" 6K in the lineup?

I think that the new marketing lineup is Pocket 4K and Pocket 6K Pro.

The 6K may be on the way out, temporarily playing a cameo role to help sell customers on Pro.

Already on B&H for Preorder.

6k pro.jpeg (330.98 KiB) Viewed 9528 times

With an e-mail announcement:

pro email.jpeg (370.39 KiB) Viewed 9522 times

Glad to see the older two cameras are still offered.

Heck, even the Micro Cinema Camera, launched in 2015, is still offered. That must be one of the longest-surviving BMD cameras ever at this point. The BMPCC 4K replaced the original BMPCC after five years; the BMMCC is still for sale after six years.

Personally I'm super invested in MFT, but why can't BMD join the L-Mount Alliance? Why can't they license the RF-mount? RED did.

From what I understand, the RF mount license was a result of an IP licensing agreement. L-mount would be a good option if it were feasible, but I don't know what's involved in becoming part of that alliance.

Maybe BMD can develop a mount like the ones in the CineAlta and Kinefinity cameras, publish the specs for it, and let third parties who already make a variety of lens mount adapters add that to their roster.

I like the camera, but it feels a little 2020. Like others on here I wanted a box (small, you know, for the "pocket") and I wanted some implementation of the new sensor tech but not for the k's, but for the look. The last thing I need is more k's.

I like the 6KPro for the super useful and really cool features that it has, but it's frickin' huge. I remember when I first saw the P6K at the store and realized how massive that thing was. I guess I'll be waiting until 2022 now. If Komodo weren't out of my budget I'd be heading to Red. Of course, if I was going to pay that sort of cash I'd have to think about selling my A7RIV and buying the A1. But that's crazy talk. Size does matter, I'm not so much run and gun, but surrounded by guns in areas I'm filming in. I'll keep hoping that they produce something more compact in the future.

All my lenses are EF mount so that works for me!

I’ll probably buy it. But I really want a PL version so I can use some amazing PL glass.


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Couldn't care less about a box design. The Pocket 6k Pro solves a lot of problems for my workflow.

I’ll probably buy it. But I really want a PL version so I can use some amazing PL glass.


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We can use this Tim

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... gKCwPD_BwE

I honestly think this update is way more important that people give it credit. The pocket(s) are already really amazing quality for money, and the addition of ND's and another mini xlr really make this camera recommendable. it's like the fuji xt3 to xt4, on paper it doesn't sound excited, but practical use, the camera became that much closer to perfect.

imo

I like this release. Except the 6k that I don't need (4k is plenty for me to emulate film), everything else new in it is what I would have wanted 2+ years ago when I got my BMPCC 4k: tiltable bright screen, NDs (hopefully accompanied by a better IR CUT filter), and an updated battery/grip.

Basically, what BMD did with this release was to eliminate additional hardware that needed to be purchased and rigged on top of the camera. And this is a very good move for one-man-crews who want a smaller rig. So yes, the camera is a bit larger, but the elimination of needing other hardware compensates for it.

Now, regarding the EF mount: it is a problematic mount, but not the end of the world. What would have been a very daring, but usable approach, would be to use the MFT mount. The MFT mount covers easily up to 1.5x (consider that the E mount is as small as the MFT mount). No, the Panasonic and Olympus lenses would not cover (which would create big support issues for BMD), but it would allow for adapters and speedboosters. Also, a bunch of third party manual MFT lenses do cover at 1.5x (I tried them with my MFT->E mount adapter, and they cover the 1.5x Sony sensor): Rokinon 12mm, 7Artisans etc.

So overall, it might not make sense for existing BMPCC 4k/6k users to outright upgrade, it could bring new buyers in. Modern AF will never happen of course, but IBIS would be nice if we could get up to 2-3 stops of correction: just enough to eliminate the micro-jitters. I would never ask for a full IBIS implementation from BMD. But the micro-jitters are indeed a problem when handheld, when using a non-IS lens (which is most of the time for me, since I use Russian vintage lenses).

Overall, it's actually a good stepping stone release towards a less rig-demanding cinema camera.

Donnell, the SLR Magic Pro PL-EF Adapter is shimmable which may be preferable. That’s what I have, I think. It may be this item at B&H but the description may be wrong:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1278822-REG

Eugenia, you have a good point. With BMD likely agreeing with you since they are marketing it as a handheld camera implying minimal, if any, rigging.

Donnell, the SLR Magic Pro PL-EF Adapter is shimmable which may be preferable. That’s what I have. I think it may be this item at B&H but the description is wrong:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1278822-REG

Yes, Rick thank you. I've never used this type of adapter before. But if you swear by it. I'll get it.

Just call B&H to have them check their description. The costly version should say Pro and it comes with a shim installed. It is wrong to say it can only take SLR Magic lenses. Let me check what I have. Don’t buy either yet! I’ll be back!

Eugenia, you have a good point. With BMD likely agreeing with you since they are marketing it as a handheld camera implying minimal, if any, rigging.

What I find most comical is how many people buy cameras like the Pocket series, Komodo, Alexa Mini and rig them up so that they're as bulky as a full-sized Ursa or Alexa.

When I was working with a Pocket 4K, that "rig" was quite minimal. It really doesn't NEED a lot of rigging to be production worthy, though there are some things that are rather helpful like an external monitor for the awkward angle shots.

So you're both correct, that with the extra stuff that's built into the Pocket 6K Pro, your overall kit can be more compact even though the camera grew a little bit.

So overall, it might not make sense for existing BMPCC 4k/6k users to outright upgrade, it could bring new buyers in.
...
Overall, it's actually a good stepping stone release towards a less rig-demanding cinema camera.

Good analysis. Re the quote above...

That was my initial reaction as well, but some current 6K owners, and 4K owners who have been thinking about the 6K, may think that a 1500 nits LCD that tilts is by itself worth the upgrade. This could replace an external monitor in a lot of situations, shedding bulk and weight. For some, the OLED EVF, simple as it is in terms of functions, might be an additional sweetener.

Damn. Was hoping for the new sensor in a small form factor.

I just don't like the Sony sensor look and this will have it again.

Never thought I'd jump ship one day (in BMD cameras since BMCC) but will now consider the C70 with it's dual gain output sensor.

But props to BMD for the bright flip-out screen, internal ND's and Sony batteries.

This is great news! Already pre-ordered the 6K Pro. The Pocket 6K has proven to be a little workhorse beast. I've shot so many projects on them and they've never let me down. I love the Pocket 6K so much that I sold my two Ursa G2s. I also own an Alexa Classic and the Pocket 6K I've used as a b-cam and have been able to match the Alexa almost perfectly with Juan Melara's LUT. Blackmagic hit it out of the ballpark with this new model. I hope the clear ND has IR cut.

Does anyone know if the Regular Pocket 6k, will be able to do 4k Braw with the new Software update, or is 4k Braw reserved for the 6K Pro only?

I'd love to see an extension cable created (BM or 3rd party) that allows the EVF to be repositioned anywhere. I love that they have the EVF option, but with it's location I feel like it could be a problem for people using top handles.

Since top handles seem to be pretty popular with the pocket cameras I feel like an extension cable for the evf would be a no-brainer (if it's possible to make).

@Donnell
Here’s the SLR Magic PL-EF Adapter I have but it doesn’t say Pro on the box; neither does their Pro PL-MFTadapter that I have have the word Pro printed on the box, but I know I have the Pro version.






Guess I’m ready to pre-order the BMPCC6K Pro, eh?

I love my pocket 4K and 6K. If I needed a new camera I’m sure I would be happy with the new one. BMD responds to their customers. I think they did a great job. In the end we get the most beautiful pictures and the best bang for the buck in the business. And now have yet another choice. Nice.


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Once again Australians are being asked to pay through the nose for BMD products. US$2495 is AU$3215, but if you want to buy one here then AU$3935 is what you will pay. Some of that difference is tax, but by no means all. Had expected around AU$3500ish.

Steve

Once again Australians are being asked to pay through the nose for BMD products. US$2495 is AU$3215, but if you want to buy one here then AU$3935 is what you will pay. Some of that difference is tax, but by no means all. Had expected around AU$3500ish.

Steve

You pay quite a bit less than I did for a Miller fluid head

That EF mount is heartbreaking. It locks me out of too many of my vintage lenses. It's really too bad, if it came with an L-Mount or some other easily adaptable mount it would be on top of my buy-list.

L-Mount isn't open for other manufacturers outside the L-mount alliance.
https://l-mount.com/en/Q-and-A

E-Mount, L-mount, RF-mount are not possible for Blackmagic.

That leaves us with these options: MFT-, PL-, EF-, F- and B4-mount

What would you prefer?

PL? The truth is that EF is one of the most restrictive mounts out there. Ultimately L-Mount or RF are accessible for a license fee, same with ProRes on Resolve for Windows. They choose not to deal with the license but overall it's a lose lose situation for many users like me. I'd rather Blackmagic charge me extra for an L or RF mount option than not have one at all and be looking elsewhere.

At the moment a Sigma fp coupled with a Blackmagic Video Assist that can record BlackmagicRaw 4K comes out to roughly the same amount of money while allowing me full access of my vintage lens collection and word has it that Sigma is about to update the fp.

@Donnell
Here’s the SLR Magic PL-EF Adapter I have but it doesn’t say Pro on the box; neither does their Pro PL-MFTadapter that I have have the word Pro printed on the box, but I know I have the Pro version.






Guess I’m ready to pre-order the BMPCC6K Pro, eh?

Thanks for the pics Rick. I'll definitely get these. Yea Rick they got me on the Nd's and 1500 nit monitor. About to pre order now

Congratulations! Are you considering the BMVF6K Pro?

I’m sure the new BMPCC6K Pro will do well based on the posts today. No idea what YouTube influencers have to say about it, but it’s a good update for the BMPCC6K.

I suspect they’ll sell the BMPCC6K until current orders are filled but not much longer. The upgrades make the camera even more economical given many people, especially those who have EF lenses, without ND filters or an external monitor may not need to add anything specific to that camera.

I suspect they’ll sell the BMPCC6K until current orders are filled but not much longer. The upgrades make the camera even more economical given many people, especially those who have EF lenses, without ND filters or an external monitor may not need to add anything specific to that camera.

Ya, I think a lot of the complainers aren't realizing how much money they'd stand to save by not needing to spend any bux on NDs and a good monitor just to get going with that camera.

A good daylight viewable monitor on its own is probably upwards of $500, and requires batteries, etc.

Thanks Rick! You may have just sold me on getting the Pocket 6K Pro and the SLR Magic PL Adapter.

I finally got home and am going to finally watch the live stream. I'm also going to look completely into what is in the Pocket 6K Pro fully. See if it's what I need. Probably. Should I sell the Pocket 6K or keep it will be the next question.

Let me begin the stream.

P.S. I was on a corporate shoot today with the Canon C300ii and Canon Cinema Lenses. God, I hate the Canon menu system and UI. But I was hired by the production company to operate so... I use the camera they have because that's what they want. I know how to operate it. Even if I don't prefer it.

Ya, I think a lot of the complainers aren't realizing how much money they'd stand to save by not needing to spend any bux on NDs and a good monitor just to get going with that camera.

A good daylight viewable monitor on its own is probably upwards of $500, and requires batteries, etc.

I think a lot of us already have all this stuff so that's less compelling. But definitely less rigging so there would less futzing with monitor and filters, that's for sure. But the main point for some of us:

Damn. Was hoping for the new sensor in a small form factor.

I just don't like the Sony sensor look and this will have it again.

But props to BMD for the bright flip-out screen, internal ND's and Sony batteries.

Even with the size and the faux dslr form factor, I'd probably get a P6kPro if it had some variant of the new sensor tech. Not saying 12k, but a 4k or 6k version would be enough. I'll wait until that trickle-down happens.

All that aside I do think it was fulfilling a bunch of wish lists. Especially considering some of the recent EVF and best monitor threads. I bet the BMD folks were chuckling at those as they prepared to drop a 1500 nit monitor and a compact EVF.

Absolutely must have been grinning!


That little BMVF6K Pro viewfinder should be on my BMPCC4K so I can use the superb BMVF12G7 as a director’s monitor for the UM46K or BMPCC4K. Fingers crossed they already have some optional connections planned. We all understand there’s only so much one can accomplish and they’ve done this reveal mid-February so who knows if there’s more to come by mid-April.

I know I have neutral density filters coming out my ears, but there are times when having integrated ND is a lifesaver. Especially when covering a live event as I do. A few seconds in those situations beats a few minutes to organize a swap of external filters for a sole operator.

BMD is on the right path. Just likely will wait for another fork in the road. I wanted to see the 8K RGBWWW on mFT because the math works, but I know nothing really about the technical feasibility. And I love that dual ISO sensor in the BMPCC4K so I’m not crying in my soup because I’d lose that feature if I went to RGBWWW.

Even with the size and the faux dslr form factor, I'd probably get a P6kPro if it had some variant of the new sensor tech. Not saying 12k, but a 4k or 6k version would be enough. I'll wait until that trickle-down happens

I'm pretty confident that in a blind A/B test at 4K, with all else being equal, no one could consistently pick out the U12K from the P6K. In fact, I'm pretty confident this is true between most any modern camera in any reasonably controlled shooting condition.

We've gotten to the point that pure PQ is near the bottom of the reasons to choose one camera over another...and that's a good thing.

This may seem silly but as a potential first time Pocket owner, are there any power out options on the body without resorting to v-lock? With 3xNPF570 batteries and without a monitor to power I'd love to skip the big boys but I still need to get power to my Teradek MDR & Bolt 500 - not a huge draw but required.

I’ve been shooting with the pocket 4K for about two years now. I think I can count only two times where its dynamic range had a real, noticeable difference on the image quality (filming a stage with one bright moving light and a scenario where a woman was speaking in front of a window with sunlit snow outside which I could not overpower with my lights). For a lot of intents and purposes we are through the looking glass on image quality. Now put against that all the times I have been fiddling with external monitors, batteries and nds, I know which I prefer. Although I do think you will still need a monitor because for handheld work you will have this camera on your shoulder, still.

Neither 8K nor FF are particularly important to very many people. Just look around; most productions are still using Super35, and those are still dominated by sub-4K cameras.

And Red's best selling camera is a 6K Super35 camera, not one of its 8K bigger brothers... meanwhile, Black Magic's worst selling camera is the 12K because the same people who complain the most about 8K used 12K as an excuse to criticize the camera.

I expect that the moment that Red announces a camera with a resolution higher than 8K, that will be the new envy resolution that people start complaining that Black Magic doesn't offer. Never mind that the people complaining about Black Magic's cameras maxing out at "only" 6K are rarely actually making any movies...

This is an old argument thate been refuted many times and people still bring it up. Framing, sampling, reduce noise, better DR. enough said.

This is an old argument thate been refuted many times and people still bring it up. Framing, sampling, reduce noise, better DR. enough said.

That's false. It's completely false. Disproven repeatedly by reality, because fine art photographers print at native resolution all the time, and in prints resolution is a LOT more than in motion. The fact that most 4K BluRays and most 4K theatrical presentations are UP-REZZED from 2K masters is absolute, incontrovertible proof that you are wrong, no matter how much you argue about it.

And if you need 4K to reframe in order to get a decent shot you need to study and practice more.

This is an old argument thate been refuted many times and people still bring it up. Framing, sampling, reduce noise, better DR. enough said.

That's false. It's completely false. Disproven repeatedly by reality, because fine art photographers print at native resolution all the time, and in prints resolution is a LOT more than in motion. The fact that most 4K BluRays and most 4K theatrical presentations are UP-REZZED from 2K masters is absolute, incontrovertible proof that you are wrong, no matter how much you argue about it.

And if you need 4K to reframe in order to get a decent shot you need to study and practice more.

Completely false? You suggesting we might as well stick to shooting 720p or 480p. Supersampling is all the rage and you just turn the clock back
Reframe also helps with stability in post. People reframe for a variety of reason, if on a budget or with a small crew even a one man band, which we are likely to see more of in the current climate. Uprez is a poor choice, are you sure it does not lose quality? UPrez is false detail mate.

That EF mount is heartbreaking. It locks me out of too many of my vintage lenses. It's really too bad, if it came with an L-Mount or some other easily adaptable mount it would be on top of my buy-list.

L-Mount isn't open for other manufacturers outside the L-mount alliance.
https://l-mount.com/en/Q-and-A

E-Mount, L-mount, RF-mount are not possible for Blackmagic.

That leaves us with these options: MFT-, PL-, EF-, F- and B4-mount

What would you prefer?

PL? The truth is that EF is one of the most restrictive mounts out there. Ultimately L-Mount or RF are accessible for a license fee, same with ProRes on Resolve for Windows. They choose not to deal with the license but overall it's a lose lose situation for many users like me. I'd rather Blackmagic charge me extra for an L or RF mount option than not have one at all and be looking elsewhere.

Seems you didn't even care this little bit to read the Q&A link I provided from the L-mount alliance.
The answer is NO. They are not giving out a license to anyone outside the alliance which BMD cannot join.

And RED is the only one who got the RF mount license because of an intellectual property agreement with Canon. RF mount is NOT open for licensing.

If you think it is possible, provide evidence.