Blackmagic Forum

My plan to make a film has been devised with the 4K camera at the centre and so far spent about £6000+ upgrading to EF lenses and filters.
I have time off from work through august, specifically to do tests and build a workflow. I never thought the camera would be late as lessons learnt etc. And BMD would allow plenty of time for the new cameras and thought July 31st date would be kept. But the 4K has been pushed back.

Because there is no footage with nothing to suggest the camera will be a good un. I just wish we could have some info to add credibility like an update about what is holding production up and how the holdup is going to be fixed. Because in the back of my mind is this fear that this project may be unworkable and I need to know it will come to market soon.

I totally agree.

I also had plans for august. I will now do some stills for my projects instead and aiming to shoot moving images in beginning of september instead. But can we trust "a couple of weeks"?

An honest update would be fair to give to BM´s customer. I think most of us could wait. Make compromise with videos and so forth. Only if we knew a correct delivery date.

If I knew that the 4k will be months delayed. I would for sure buy a camera like 5d mkiii and use its RAW until BM 4k came out. Then i would sell it on the second hand market. Regardless, I will buy the BM 4k. But, once again. It would be fair to at least give us a hint on when the camera will be in our hands

There's a saying about chickens and hatching...

I can totally understand them not showing any footage though. If they're trying to get the image just how they want it right now, and that's the reason for the delay, I wouldn't want to show a single frame of footage either. They know anything they post is going to be scrutinized like crazy, and even if they say it's just a pre-production shot a lot of opinions and decisions will still be made based on it.

Although one might hope that by now, they have at least one single frame of footage that would hold up to scrutiny

Mark2929 wrote:My plan to make a film has been devised with the 4K camera at the centre and so far spent about £6000+ upgrading to EF lenses and filters. I have time off from work through august, specifically to do tests and build a workflow. I never thought the camera would be late as lessons learnt etc. ...

"Lessons learned" is a two-way street. Hopefully we learned something from the original BMCC late shipping episode, too, not just BMD.

It's never a good idea to buy expensive accessories for a camera you don't yet have in-hand.

My guess is that BMD's dealers have booked many thousands of pre-orders for the BMPC-4K. So even if BMD starts making them in relatively large quantities (large for BMD), we could be in for a significant wait for delivery.

I don't know how early (or if) you pre-ordered a BMPC-4K, but even if you pre-ordered on the day the cam was announced at NAB this past April, my guess is there's probably a zero percent (0%) chance of you having one in-hand by the end of this August. And only a slightly better than 0% chance by the end of this Sept. After that I don't have a guess, other than to say that I hope the percentage chance starts to ramp up! TBD.

Myself, I'm really really hoping to start using my BMPC-4K (pre-ordered the day after the announcement in April) by early Nov. 2013 for a "project". However, in the meantime I'm not holding my breath. If I don't have it by then, I may give it another few weeks, and then get a BMCC-MFT instead.

As for some kind of an update about the BMPC-4K: There were semi-vague public statements attributed to BMD employees just a few days ago on July 25th. We may hear more soon, but my guess is until BMD has some good news to share, we probably won't hear much.

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Peter J. DeCrescenzo wrote:It's never a good idea to buy expensive accessories for a camera you don't yet have in-hand.

That's gotta be the 110th time I've seen you say that and no one listens but that's great advice.

I'd say get a BMCC 2.5K EF and bask in the glory of its dynamic range. If you don't whip the camera around and get a nice wide lens, its looks better on paper than the 4K unless you don't want to frame your shots and do it all in post with lower dynamic range:)

thekreative wrote:I'd say get a BMCC 2.5K EF and bask in the glory of its dynamic range. If you don't whip the camera around and get a nice wide lens, its looks better on paper than the 4K unless you don't want to frame your shots and do it all in post with lower dynamic range:)

Yeah but I'll wait a few more weeks, I wanna see what this 4K looks like

Peter J. DeCrescenzo wrote:

Mark2929 wrote:My plan to make a film has been devised with the 4K camera at the centre and so far spent about £6000+ upgrading to EF lenses and filters. I have time off from work through august, specifically to do tests and build a workflow. I never thought the camera would be late as lessons learnt etc. ...

"Lessons learned" is a two-way street. Hopefully we learned something from the original BMCC late shipping episode, too, not just BMD.

It's never a good idea to buy expensive accessories for a camera you don't yet have in-hand.

Lenses (if bought wisely) and filters (in 4x5.65 or 6x6) are usually a better investment than a camera as they can be used/rented even after the camera is "outdated". Other stuff like matteboxes, ff, tripods and heads also holds their value better than a camera.

regards
Hans Engstrom

Peter J. DeCrescenzo wrote:

Mark2929 wrote:My plan to make a film has been devised with the 4K camera at the centre and so far spent about £6000+ upgrading to EF lenses and filters. I have time off from work through august, specifically to do tests and build a workflow. I never thought the camera would be late as lessons learnt etc. ...

"Lessons learned" is a two-way street. Hopefully we learned something from the original BMCC late shipping episode, too, not just BMD.

It's never a good idea to buy expensive accessories for a camera you don't yet have in-hand.

The accessories will also work with other cameras like the Kinefinity or the BMCC as well as a whole host of others. Although annoying I am flexible enough to adapt and change. However I am still waiting to see if Black magic design will update us with some reasonable news Which was the point of post. Look your comment is really just a photo opportunity for you. Try to read the OT and contribute to it like for example help to push for a more detailed update from Black magic

My guess is that BMD's dealers have booked many thousands of pre-orders for the BMPC-4K. So even if BMD starts making them in relatively large quantities (large for BMD), we could be in for a significant wait for delivery.

Yes but that's a guess and there is no room for you to build on an expected delivery date unless we actually got what the OT is about. A more detailed update.

I don't know how early (or if) you pre-ordered a BMPC-4K, but even if you pre-ordered on the day the cam was announced at NAB this past April, my guess is there's probably a zero percent (0%) chance of you having one in-hand by the end of this August. And only a slightly better than 0% chance by the end of this Sept. After that I don't have a guess, other than to say that I hope the percentage chance starts to ramp up! TBD.

So lets push for a more detailed update?

Myself, I'm really really hoping to start using my BMPC-4K (pre-ordered the day after the announcement in April) by early Nov. 2013 for a "project". However, in the meantime I'm not holding my breath. If I don't have it by then, I may give it another few weeks, and then get a BMCC-MFT instead.

You could also look at Kinefinity. I think though a detailed update would be good.

As for some kind of an update about the BMPC-4K: There were semi-vague public statements attributed to BMD employees just a few days ago on July 25th. We may hear more soon, but my guess is until BMD has some good news to share, we probably won't hear much.

Well my guess is they haven't needed to update us because they are on schedule with the pocket camera and the 4K needs some adjustment to the colour algorythms to match other BMD Cameras.

Now they admit there will be a delay AND because people will have invested into equipment and projects there should be a detailed update so we can at least judge what is a likely shipping time..

Mark2929 wrote:Well my guess is they haven't needed to update us because they are on schedule with the pocket camera and the 4K needs some adjustment to the colour algorythms to match other BMD Cameras.

Now they admit there will be a delay AND because people will have invested into equipment and projects there should be a detailed update so we can at least judge what is a likely shipping time..

Is this your first pre-order ever? Don't trust any shipping time except "Shipped ETA 3 days"

Is this your first pre-order ever? Don't trust any shipping time except "Shipped ETA 3 days"

Yes of course there may be reasonable delays and probably will it is also fair to expect to be told why and what the new shipping date is likely to be and of course BMD are entirely within their rights to just ignore this But assuming they want to keep customers onside and we all want to be professional about this then a detailed update is a good thing for all.

Mark2929 wrote:My plan to make a film has been devised with the 4K camera at the centre and so far spent about £6000+ upgrading to EF lenses and filters.
I have time off from work through august, specifically to do tests and build a workflow. I never thought the camera would be late as lessons learnt etc. And BMD would allow plenty of time for the new cameras and thought July 31st date would be kept. But the 4K has been pushed back.

Because there is no footage with nothing to suggest the camera will be a good un. I just wish we could have some info to add credibility like an update about what is holding production up and how the holdup is going to be fixed. Because in the back of my mind is this fear that this project may be unworkable and I need to know it will come to market soon.

With the best will in the world there is next to zero chance that you'll get your hands on the 4K in August. I say 'next to zero' as you can never rule anything out, but it's like 99.9999999999999999% certain that you wont.

I put my pre-order in at the end of April. Based on BMD's 'shipping in July' statement, previous issues with the BMCC shipping and historical facts from similar companies/equip (RED), I more or less resigned myself to receiving the camera at the end of 2013/beginning of 2014 at the earliest. If it turns up earlier than that then great as I have a number of projects that I could use it on, but I'm really not banking on it.

It is easy to say 'well go rent instead', but many low budget productions can't afford to rent (a similar spec camera) and then still have the cash available to buy the camera they have on pre-order. Good luck with your shoot, but best not to count on using the 4K!

P.S. I'm sure someone somewhere will still say 'what's the fuss its not August yet - wait and see!'

simonspear wrote:

Mark2929 wrote:My plan to make a film has been devised with the 4K camera at the centre and so far spent about £6000+ upgrading to EF lenses and filters.
I have time off from work through august, specifically to do tests and build a workflow. I never thought the camera would be late as lessons learnt etc. And BMD would allow plenty of time for the new cameras and thought July 31st date would be kept. But the 4K has been pushed back.

Because there is no footage with nothing to suggest the camera will be a good un. I just wish we could have some info to add credibility like an update about what is holding production up and how the holdup is going to be fixed. Because in the back of my mind is this fear that this project may be unworkable and I need to know it will come to market soon.

With the best will in the world there is next to zero chance that you'll get your hands on the 4K in August. I say 'next to zero' as you can never rule anything out, but it's like 99.9999999999999999% certain that you wont.

I put my pre-order in at the end of April. Based on BMD's 'shipping in July' statement, previous issues with the BMCC shipping and historical facts from similar companies/equip (RED), I more or less resigned myself to receiving the camera at the end of 2013/beginning of 2014 at the earliest. If it turns up earlier than that then great as I have a number of projects that I could use it on, but I'm really not banking on it.

It is easy to say 'well go rent instead', but many low budget productions can't afford to rent (a similar spec camera) and then still have the cash available to buy the camera they have on pre-order. Good luck with your shoot, but best not to count on using the 4K!

P.S. I'm sure someone somewhere will still say 'what's the fuss its not August yet - wait and see!'

Well if we had a more detailed update then I would have options whether to hold out or not.
The Canon 5d just keeps getting better and better although I'd still be reluctant to trust it on a shoot. The Kinefinity and even the BMCC Although I don't want the smaller sensor only because I have invested in lenses of the movie 35mm frame and lens size.