Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

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Robdoc

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Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostSat Jan 18, 2020 9:21 pm

I am looking to buy a really high quality microphone (I am thinking shotgun) to go on or with my BMPCC 6K.

The first documentary I made was really troubled with poor audio as I recorded all the video/audio on a sony camcorder.

I am looking for a high quality mic that can really reduce most noise and only pick up what its pointing at.

Just wondering what you guys here use and what you might suggest.

Thanks.
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostSat Jan 18, 2020 9:31 pm

How much do you want to spend? What/who are you trying to record and in what circumstances? I’d suggest that you spend part of your budget on an audio recorder. Personally, I would not purchase “a really high quality microphone” and then use a camera as my sound recorder.

There’s a guy named Curtis Judd on YouTube who just did a fairly detailed roundup of boom mikes. It’s not a bad place to start. However, note that he doesn’t deal in this video with miniature mikes, and he’s pretty attuned to the fact that most of his audience is unlikely to be purchasing the DPA shotgun that he owns and talks about in the video. You may find it useful to watch some of his other videos as well.

If you go to the YouTube site, Judd has a time stamp index to this video in the video description. He talks about “pro level” shotgun mikes starting at 19:24 and “pro level” cardioids starting at 29:27.

It would be a good idea to pay attention to what he says at the beginning about using shotgun microphones indoors. It’s one of the reasons why I asked the question in the second sentence of this post.




Cheers
Last edited by robedge on Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:05 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostSat Jan 18, 2020 10:38 pm

Robdoc wrote:I am looking for a high quality mic that can really reduce most noise and only pick up what its pointing at.


Just want to note that shotgun microphones do not act like zoom lenses and they don’t reduce noise except to the extent that they don’t pick up surrounding off-axis sound.

You may find that a highly directional mike that “only picks up what it’s pointing at” is not such a great idea if it’s pointed at your subject’s mouth and he turns his head :) Have you got a boom operator? Shotgun mikes vary in how far the sound source can be “off axis” before the sound suffers, and it’s an important consideration when purchasing a shotgun or indeed any mike. There’s a reason why all miniature mikes/lavaliers, except for special cases, are omnidirectional, rather than directional, microphones.

Cheers
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostSun Jan 19, 2020 12:02 am

I get good recordings from the Sennheiser MKE600 on my BMPCC 4K. It has better sensitivity and improved sound than the ENG staple Mic for decades, the ME-66. It has a high frequency emphasis, but when mounted on the camera it is suseptable to picking up fan noise indoors (a notch filter at 800 Hz will reduce most of it in post). It has been compared to the ultra high-end Sennheiser MKH-60. In shootouts with other mics in it's price range ($350 USD), it frequently comes out on top.

If you are on a budget and want something that punches above it's weight class, the hammer and anvil MK-ENG600 is a good choice in a long supercardiod that has a low noise floor. Using a recorder, I did a back to back dialog comparison of it with a $1450 Sanken CS-3e and it held up. The Sanken has slightly better articulation and a little less smearing of the details, but I don't think I would have noticed the difference if I hadn't done a comparison. Unfortunately, if you mount it on the right side of a smallrig cage, the Blackmagic XLR cable doesn't quite reach it due to the rear overhang.
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostSun Jan 19, 2020 12:29 am

dondidnod wrote:If you are on a budget and want something that punches above it's weight class, the hammer and anvil MK-ENG600 is a good choice in a long supercardiod that has a low noise floor. Using a recorder, I did a back to back dialog comparison of it with a $1450 Sanken CS-3e and it held up. The Sanken has slightly better articulation and a little less smearing of the details, but I don't think I would have noticed the difference if I hadn't done a comparison.


Hammer and Anvil is an Adorama house brand, which sells the MK-ENG600 via their online, Amazon U.S. and eBay stores for US$49.95. Adorama describes it as “an exclusive”, which suggests that it’s unavailable from anyone else. That’s quite something if it compares well to a $1450 Sanken for $1400 less.
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostSun Jan 19, 2020 1:16 am

dondidnod wrote:I get good recordings from the Sennheiser MKE600 on my BMPCC 4K. It has better sensitivity and improved sound than the ENG staple Mic for decades, the ME-66. It has a high frequency emphasis, but when mounted on the camera it is suseptable to picking up fan noise indoors (a notch filter at 800 Hz will reduce most of it in post). It has been compared to the ultra high-end Sennheiser MKH-60. In shootouts with other mics in it's price range ($350 USD), it frequently comes out on top... $1450 Sanken CS-3e... The Sanken has slightly better articulation and a little less smearing of the details...


Good advice. I use the older Sennheiser MKH416 and it does the job, but it does pickup sound from the side which often is a good thing. I use it for its ambient sound as well as picking up vocals from 10m-20m away. The Sanken is a better mic, it is as recommended to me last year; but I’m always finding another place to put that money (BMD Video Assist 12G?)! If I buy a mic to be used on a boom I expect it will be the Sanken.

If you are fairly close to your subjects and need a good mic for music, vocals, dialogue, last year I bought a pair of Line Audio Design CM-4 mics that I use in ORTF. Made in Sweden but there is a distributor in Canada. They are small and inexpensive and deliver good results. Highly recommend those for some situations.
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostSun Jan 19, 2020 2:02 am

rick.lang wrote:Good advice.


Honestly, I don’t see how advice on microphones can be good or bad if one doesn’t know budget, expectations and what’s being recorded.

There’s also an issue around the fact that some of the older mike designs, including the venerable Sennheiser 416 that you mention, are just plain big microphones at a time when mikes don’t need to be big to perform. The 416 and similar mikes would be way down the list of what I’d suggest to someone who wants a compact system for recording sound.

I’ll make my own biases clear. I do not share the popular view on the internet that shotgun mikes are the answer to everything and that miniature/lavalier mikes are more or less by definition used with wireless setups rather than wired.

I’d like to know what robdoc wants to record and under what circumstances, at which point it might be possible to make intelligible suggestions. Those suggestions may in fact include, for example, wired lavaliers, possibly to something like a Lectrosonics PDR in a pocket or a DPA d:vice to an iPhone.
Last edited by robedge on Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:41 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostSun Jan 19, 2020 2:11 am

Robedge, reread the OP. We are making relevant suggestions and suggesting some alternatives such as the small CM-4 that might work as an alternative to what he was thinking.

He is thinking of a shotgun, but that’s very general; a shotgun without some side pickup. He doesn’t want a repeat of the issues he had with a documentary, but you are correct we don’t know if the documentary is going to be like 1944 or bear cubs emerging from hibernation.

Best to let Robdoc respond about the suggestions.
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostSun Jan 19, 2020 2:19 am

rick.lang wrote:Robedge, reread the OP.


Not only did I read it, I paid attention instead of going off on a frolic about sound gear that I own or like and that may or may not have anything to do with whatever his objective is.

My signature refers to what are generally regarded, to use robdoc’s words, as “really high quality microphones”. I have not suggested any of them, or other mikes by the same makers. Why? Because they may not be what he needs. They may also not be what he can afford or want to pay for.
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostSun Jan 19, 2020 3:58 am

One test of a mic used for a run and gun documentary is how it sounds in a hostile environment with an angry guy using a bullhorn. I came across just such a situation with my Sennheiser MKE600 after cranking the gain up for a previous soft spoken speaker and not monitoring the level since I was in a crowd crush using a monopod from 15 feet away. I had no time to setup my SD Mixpre6 II and over-recorded direct to my BMPCC 4K with the mic mounted on the cage. Using a quality mic can make the difference between a shot that is usable and one that is not.

Here is an example of just such a situation, fast forward to 0:33:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... RKQ68fso3S
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostSun Jan 19, 2020 4:23 am

dondidnod wrote:Here is an example of just such a situation, fast forward to 0:33:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... RKQ68fso3S


Good stuff, although I think that you’re being a bit hard on the guy calling him hostile and angry. He’s just a student protesting cancellation of Filipino language classes who apologised, while he was talking, for being nervous. Seems like he’s probably a nice guy :)

I don’t understand what this has to do with the mike. It’s clear from the recording that the sound didn’t exceed the mike’s sound pressure rating and wouldn’t exceed the SPL of any decent, average mike. If you want to find a mike’s SPL limits, outside the specs, go to a gun club, not a guy protesting the end of language classes.

It sounds like you are actually talking about potential clipping in relation to the levels that you set on your MixPre and/or your camera. Your MixPre series II recorder should make clipping in this situation a non-event. So what was the problem?

Cheers
Last edited by robedge on Sun Jan 19, 2020 5:17 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostSun Jan 19, 2020 4:24 am

Robdoc wrote:I am looking to buy a really high quality microphone (I am thinking shotgun) to go on or with my BMPCC 6K.

The first documentary I made was really troubled with poor audio as I recorded all the video/audio on a sony camcorder.

I am looking for a high quality mic that can really reduce most noise and only pick up what its pointing at.

Just wondering what you guys here use and what you might suggest.

Thanks.


The main question should be about Analog Pre-Amps not Mics. All mic's behave in a really good way when the preamps are good, and even if you go to hot, you should not have problems with something like Sound Devices. - Now you theoretically should always A1/A2 talent so you have Shotgun/Short Shotgun and Lavs.
In terms of microphones, you can look at their pickup pattern. MKH416 is actually an outdoor MIC, where something like ME66 would be more of a high-gain indoor Mic. But in a Doc setting, what is really going to mess with you are the Digital Limiters on gear like ZOOM F....., like literally you're better off planting an iPhone close by with voice memo than using that thing. Or poneying up for phantom power and sound devices and a nice shock mount, deadcat, zepplin etc.. - I'm not an audio guy but yeah all those. With the right real analog pre-amp even a low end AKG sounds better than with the built in pre in a camera. And if you clip Analog limiters, you can recover the waveforms estimated with iZotope unlike digital ones.

Actually you know what, if you're going to use an ENG camera as a pre, just get the ME-66.
Last edited by Denis Kazlowski on Sun Jan 19, 2020 4:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostSun Jan 19, 2020 4:33 am

Denis Kazlowski wrote:
Robdoc wrote:I am looking to buy a really high quality microphone (I am thinking shotgun) to go on or with my BMPCC 6K.

The first documentary I made was really troubled with poor audio as I recorded all the video/audio on a sony camcorder.

I am looking for a high quality mic that can really reduce most noise and only pick up what its pointing at.

Just wondering what you guys here use and what you might suggest.

Thanks.


The main question should be about Analog Pre-Amps not Mics. All mic's behave in a really good way when the preamps are good, and even if you go to hot, you should not have problems with something like Sound Devices. - Now you theoretically should always A1/A2 talent so you have Shotgun/Short Shotgun and Lavs.
In terms of microphones, you can look at their pickup pattern. MKH416 is actually an outdoor MIC, where something like ME66 would be more of a high-gain indoor Mic. But in a Doc setting, what is really going to mess with you are the Digital Limiters on gear like ZOOM F....., like literally you're better off planting an iPhone close by with voice memo than using that thing. Or poneying up for phantom power and sound devices and a nice shock mount, deadcat, zepplin etc.. - I'm not an audio guy but yeah all those. With the right real analog pre-amp even a low end AKG sounds better than with the built in pre in a camera. And if you clip Analog limiters, you can recover the waveforms estimated with iZotope unlike digital ones.


Hear, hear (for the most part). Step number one. Include a decent audio recorder in the budget. Which, like Denis, I suggested in the first paragraph of the first response to this thread :)
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostSun Jan 19, 2020 4:41 am

robedge wrote:
Denis Kazlowski wrote:
Robdoc wrote:I am looking to buy a really high quality microphone (I am thinking shotgun) to go on or with my BMPCC 6K.

The first documentary I made was really troubled with poor audio as I recorded all the video/audio on a sony camcorder.

I am looking for a high quality mic that can really reduce most noise and only pick up what its pointing at.

Just wondering what you guys here use and what you might suggest.

Thanks.


The main question should be about Analog Pre-Amps not Mics. All mic's behave in a really good way when the preamps are good, and even if you go to hot, you should not have problems with something like Sound Devices. - Now you theoretically should always A1/A2 talent so you have Shotgun/Short Shotgun and Lavs.
In terms of microphones, you can look at their pickup pattern. MKH416 is actually an outdoor MIC, where something like ME66 would be more of a high-gain indoor Mic. But in a Doc setting, what is really going to mess with you are the Digital Limiters on gear like ZOOM F....., like literally you're better off planting an iPhone close by with voice memo than using that thing. Or poneying up for phantom power and sound devices and a nice shock mount, deadcat, zepplin etc.. - I'm not an audio guy but yeah all those. With the right real analog pre-amp even a low end AKG sounds better than with the built in pre in a camera. And if you clip Analog limiters, you can recover the waveforms estimated with iZotope unlike digital ones.


Hear, hear (for the most part). Step number one. Include a decent audio recorder in the budget.


Or a pre-amp, where you feed line level audio to the camera's XLR inputs, either one is fine.
I edited my post to just simply recommend a ME-66 to the OP. As it is high gain with Sony/Pana or other ENG cams, and I do recommend dated Sony LAVS which can be had for around $200+ with a pelican case for Doc Work.
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostSun Jan 19, 2020 4:56 am

Denis Kazlowski wrote:
robedge wrote:Hear, hear (for the most part). Step number one. Include a decent audio recorder in the budget.


Or a pre-amp, where you feed line level audio to the camera's XLR inputs, either one is fine.
I edited my post to just simply recommend a ME-66 to the OP. As it is high gain with Sony/Pana or other ENG cams, and I do recommend dated Sony LAVS which can be had for around $200+ with a pelican case for Doc Work.


I don’t know why one would purchase a preamp rather than something like a MixPre, but perhaps you have a preamp in mind and reasons to believe that it’s a better idea. I can think of one specific case for a preamp myself, which is DPA’s d:vice that records into an iPhone. However, I doubt that many people here even know what DPA’s d:vice is, or how it’s being used in journalism.

I do not see any point in recommending specific mikes without knowing robdoc’s budget, subject matter and objectives.
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostSun Jan 19, 2020 5:06 am

When I started, I got a Rode Videomic Pro, but after taking a "audio for filmmakers class" I heard how good things sound through something like a Zoom or a Tascam (we were using both), but I disliked the interfaces. Right around that time Sound Devices released the Mixpre3 and though it was over budget, I got one. So easy to use. I got a Sennheiser MKE600 after a bunch of research and deciding that it would be a good start since it was hard to justify the MKH416. I've been happy so far. I don't record narrative or interviews, just field recordings from areas where I'm capturing documentary video. I like a shotgun because sometimes I'm trying to capture a specific sound, or cluster of sounds and hoping to not get that nearby freeway noise too much (for example). So far so good. Interested to see where this discussion goes but I agree that once I heard a mic through my camera and a mic through a recorder, I knew what I needed.

But yeah, to hone in on what would be "good" for the OP, it's always budget and the specific use case that determines real recommendations.
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostSun Jan 19, 2020 5:15 am

robedge wrote: ...he’s probably a nice guy :)

I don’t understand what this has to do with the mike. It’s clear from the recording that the sound didn’t exceed the mike’s sound pressure rating and wouldn’t exceed the SPL of any decent, average mike.

It sounds like you are actually talking about potential clipping in relation to the levels that you set on your MixPre and/or your camera. ...So what was the problem?

Yes, he is a nice guy. He is hostile to a bean counting Chancellor that just cut 300 classes for the Spring semester at City College of San Francisco. He's in one of my Cinematography classes and asked me to post the video I shot of him.

A condenser Mic has a pre-amp inside with capacitors that damp the sudden increase in amplitude. If cheap components are used here then it will present an impedance curve that will sound harsher before it gets to the camera's pre-amp. A signal can't be any better than it's weakest link.

In the situation here we have a mic that is not just more sensitive to work within the range of the pocket camera, but one that is well damped too.

The Sennheiser ME-66 is no longer made. It was more expensive than the MKE600 when new and a used one frequently sells for more than the $170 I paid for mine on EBay.

The Mixpre is a preamp that can use either the 3.5mm input or the XLR line in (MixPre 10) of the Pocket camera.
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostSun Jan 19, 2020 5:29 am

dondidnod wrote:Yes, he is a nice guy.


Well at least we’ve got that clear. Sorry, but your video clip does not show anything about mike quality and your post described the person in your video in terms that are quite different from what you now say is the case and is quite clear from the video itself.

Cheers
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostSun Jan 19, 2020 5:39 am

Chris Leutger wrote:When I started, I got a Rode Videomic Pro, but after taking a "audio for filmmakers class" I heard how good things sound through something like a Zoom or a Tascam (we were using both), but I disliked the interfaces. Right around that time Sound Devices released the Mixpre3 and though it was over budget, I got one. So easy to use. I got a Sennheiser MKE600 after a bunch of research and deciding that it would be a good start since it was hard to justify the MKH416. I've been happy so far. I don't record narrative or interviews, just field recordings from areas where I'm capturing documentary video. I like a shotgun because sometimes I'm trying to capture a specific sound, or cluster of sounds and hoping to not get that nearby freeway noise too much (for example). So far so good. Interested to see where this discussion goes but I agree that once I heard a mic through my camera and a mic through a recorder, I knew what I needed.

But yeah, to hone in on what would be "good" for the OP, it's always budget and the specific use case that determines real recommendations.


The thing is, you are in a minority. Awhile ago, I had a chat with one of the more experienced and knowledgeable people in B&H’s audio department, and he told me that most customers think that the MixPre recorders are outrageously expensive. It’s also clear that you’ve made a mike choice for the right reasons.

Cheers
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostSun Jan 19, 2020 6:22 am

robedge wrote:
Denis Kazlowski wrote:
robedge wrote:Hear, hear (for the most part). Step number one. Include a decent audio recorder in the budget.


Or a pre-amp, where you feed line level audio to the camera's XLR inputs, either one is fine.
I edited my post to just simply recommend a ME-66 to the OP. As it is high gain with Sony/Pana or other ENG cams, and I do recommend dated Sony LAVS which can be had for around $200+ with a pelican case for Doc Work.


I don’t know why one would purchase a preamp rather than something like a MixPre, but perhaps you have a preamp in mind and reasons to believe that it’s a better idea. I can think of one specific case for a preamp myself, which is DPA’s d:vice that records into an iPhone. However, I doubt that many people here even know what DPA’s d:vice is, or how it’s being used in journalism.

I do not see any point in recommending specific mikes without knowing robdoc’s budget, subject matter and objectives.



I'm not recommending anything specific mind you, maybe I've mentioned sound devices and ME66 - but rather I would like for the OP to recognize that some research needs to be done, and expectations raised from their sound department. Like no way am I going to let someone with a ZOOM F-8 to f.. me again, I don't care if that they worked for Vice Media or etc.. They should know their equipment and it's faults before I try to de-clip or anti-reverb their audio because they're an avid p.t smoker on set. - So I don't want the OP to end up in the same boat, - yes Sound Devices is really really nice - there is better gear out there, but then you're building a sound-cart with monitors and in need of 2x ppl.
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostSun Jan 19, 2020 6:26 am

dondidnod wrote:
robedge wrote: ...he’s probably a nice guy :)

I don’t understand what this has to do with the mike. It’s clear from the recording that the sound didn’t exceed the mike’s sound pressure rating and wouldn’t exceed the SPL of any decent, average mike.

It sounds like you are actually talking about potential clipping in relation to the levels that you set on your MixPre and/or your camera. ...So what was the problem?

Yes, he is a nice guy. He is hostile to a bean counting Chancellor that just cut 300 classes for the Spring semester at City College of San Francisco. He's in one of my Cinematography classes and asked me to post the video I shot of him.

A condenser Mic has a pre-amp inside with capacitors that damp the sudden increase in amplitude. If cheap components are used here then it will present an impedance curve that will sound harsher before it gets to the camera's pre-amp. A signal can't be any better than it's weakest link.

In the situation here we have a mic that is not just more sensitive to work within the range of the pocket camera, but one that is well damped too.

The Sennheiser ME-66 is no longer made. It was more expensive than the MKE600 when new and a used one frequently sells for more than the $170 I paid for mine on EBay.

The Mixpre is a preamp that can use either the 3.5mm input or the XLR line in (MixPre 10) of the Pocket camera.


Yet the ME-66 is still sold on B&H for $170 USD.
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostSun Jan 19, 2020 6:35 am

To the OP, I've also managed to do clearly dumb stuff like gain the camera's XLR's while using ART Tube pre for $40 USD on the Mic Stage. It did require some XLR to TRS surgery, but other than that it sounded just fine.
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostSun Jan 19, 2020 8:17 am

My bad, I thought the Sennheiser ME 66 was discontinued after reading this 2014 review:
https://www.trewaudio.com/uncategorized ... t-shotgun/

I checked EBay, Guitar Center and Sweetwater and since they don't sell them new, I figured that the article was correct.

You need to add a $250 USD powering module to an ME 66 to make it usable.
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostSun Jan 19, 2020 8:24 am

dondidnod wrote:My bad, I thought the Sennheiser ME 66 was discontinued after reading this 2014 review:
https://www.trewaudio.com/uncategorized ... t-shotgun/

I checked Guitar Center and Sweetwater and since they don't sell them new, I figured that the article was correct.

You need to add a $250 powering module to an ME 66 to make it usable.



Man, - Lets be real, they'll only discontinue the 416 and 66 when the die hards actually die. They tried with the 416 line, and they got rebuked by the free market. The market said Nooooo..
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostSun Jan 19, 2020 9:00 pm

rick.lang wrote: but you are correct we don’t know if the documentary is going to be like 1944 or bear cubs emerging from hibernation.

Best to let Robdoc respond about the suggestions.


Thanks for all the discussion. For the most part I would want to be picking up my interviews with people, but I would also like the same mic to record everything else besides the interviews like b roll sound, etc.
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostSun Jan 19, 2020 9:32 pm

Robdoc wrote:For the most part I would want to be picking up my interviews with people, but I would also like the same mic to record everything else besides the interviews like b roll sound, etc.


Hi Rob,

Interviews are normally done with cardiod, hypercardiod or supercardiod mikes, or with miniature/lavalier mikes. The Schoeps CMC641 supercardiod that Curtis Judd talks about in the video above is a classic for this kind of thing, but there are much less expensive alternatives. The Schoeps is also the standard mike for feature film dialogue recording, although there are some credible competitors. If you are interviewing people outdoors in a noisy environment, there is an argument for a shotgun, but at that point there’s a lot to be said for miniature/lavalier mikes. Shotguns are not a good idea for indoor interviews.

What kind of B-roll sounds are you talking about recording, and do you want to record ambience in stereo?

Also, are you prepared to record to a dedicated sound recorder or have you made a firm decision to use your camera as a sound recorder?
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostSun Jan 19, 2020 10:06 pm

On B-roll sound, you may find it helpful to read this post from a couple of days ago and the two that follow: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=105319#p585776

The setup in the photos is specifically for recording B-roll sound. It can be used for both monaural and stereo recording, and uses omnidirectional or supercardiod microphones. For this kind of recording, shotgun mikes would only be used in unusual circumstances. I should mention that miniature/lavalier mikes are in some cases excellent for ambient or sound effect recording.
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostSun Jan 19, 2020 10:45 pm

I was reading about the Sennheiser MKE 600 Shotgun Microphone. Is there a way to hook that directly into the BMPCC6K?

I think that looks like it has superior sound which may be great for interviews and then maybe I can use the mic that comes on the BMPCC 6K for the other stuff like b roll, etc.
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostSun Jan 19, 2020 11:13 pm

Robdoc wrote:I was reading about the Sennheiser MKE 600 Shotgun Microphone. Is there a way to hook that directly into the BMPCC6K?


Sure, XLR cable from the mike to Mini XLR input on the camera. It’s a common cable. That mike can be powered from batteries or by the camera, your choice.
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostSun Jan 19, 2020 11:13 pm

If you don't mind listening to an amateur sing, you can check out the sound quality of a Sennheiser MKE 600 here:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=97842&p=557437&hilit=+Zoom+f8+#p557437
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostSun Jan 19, 2020 11:46 pm

dondidnod wrote:If you don't mind listening to an amateur sing, you can check out the sound quality of a Sennheiser MKE 600 here:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=97842&p=557437&hilit=+Zoom+f8+#p557437


As I understand it, he’s planning to plug the mike into the camera, not into a Sound Devices MixPre II or Zoom F8.

It would be interesting to hear a test of this mike plugged into the camera as against a good dedicated recorder.
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostMon Jan 20, 2020 12:16 am

robedge wrote:
dondidnod wrote:If you don't mind listening to an amateur sing, you can check out the sound quality of a Sennheiser MKE 600 here:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=97842&p=557437&hilit=+Zoom+f8+#p557437


As I understand it, he’s planning to plug the mike into the camera, not into a Sound Devices MixPre II or Zoom F8.

It would be interesting to hear a test of this mike plugged into the camera as against a good dedicated recorder.

Question on this.. what would you suggest that the mic be plugged into? Also, (probably a really amateur question (sorry)) but how would you match the voice up to what is being recorded if it is not recorded to the camera directly?
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostMon Jan 20, 2020 1:39 am

Robdoc wrote:Question on this.. what would you suggest that the mic be plugged into? Also, (probably a really amateur question (sorry)) but how would you match the voice up to what is being recorded if it is not recorded to the camera directly?


Hi,

The microphone that you are considering has an XLR output. As I understand it, the Pocket 6K has a Mini XLR port. This means that you can use an XLR to Mini XLR cable to plug the mike into the camera. The mike requires power to work. Because it takes batteries, you have a choice between batteries and drawing power from the camera. Power from the camera is called 48V Phantom Power, and is probably discussed in the Pocket 6K manual.

There are three ways to match voice to your footage if you record to a separate audio recorder. Many people use more than one of these methods:

1. use a slate/clapperboard or clap your hands before each shot
2. use timecode
3. tell your editing software to match the voice and the footage if you have recorded the voice to both your camera and the audio recorder, the former recording being known as a “scratch track” due to its lower quality

You may find it useful to do some reading, or watch videos, on synchronising audio and image in filmmaking. As I said earlier, I think that you might also find it helpful to watch some of the videos on Curtis Judd’s YouTube channel.

Cheers
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostMon Jan 20, 2020 2:32 am

I recently sold my Sound Device MixPre3 so I could upgrade to the new MixPre3 II to get time code functionality. So you can get the great sound of the SD unit and easier sync with a camera. Which, in my case, helps with my utterly half-assed abilities with slating. There's a long thread on the new Sound Devices MixPre here on the forum which I found helpful.

And yeah, read everything Rob said.
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostMon Jan 20, 2020 8:11 pm

My old setup was a Sennheiser MKE 600 into the Pocket 4K or 6K using an XLR to mini XLR. I normally use a battery in the mic, so I don't need to use phantom power. The battery in the mic lasts approximately 150 hours.I would normally have the gain at about 75.

Rick Lang actually inspired my new setup, since I heard about the MixPre through him. I purchased a MixPre 3 II that I mount to the bottom of the camera using a cage. I run the MKE 600 into the MixPre using a short XLR cable. I then run a stereo cable out from the MixPre into the camera and set the right and left channels to 3.5 mm LINE.

I like the new setup, because I get the amazing sound and pre-amps of the MixPre. Using the LINE mode on the 3.5 mm jack allows me to bypass the camera pre-amps and receive my stereo mix from the MixPre.

Most of my work is run and gun.
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostMon Jan 20, 2020 8:36 pm

Adam Silver wrote:I purchased a MixPre 3 II that I mount to the bottom of the camera using a cage. I run the MKE 600 into the MixPre using a short XLR cable. I then run a stereo cable out from the MixPre into the camera and set the right and left channels to 3.5 mm LINE.

I like the new setup, because I get the amazing sound and pre-amps of the MixPre. Using the LINE mode on the 3.5 mm jack allows me to bypass the camera pre-amps and receive my stereo mix from the MixPre.

Most of my work is run and gun.


Yes, an option for people who are happy to have the camera and MixPre stacked. The top of the MixPre even has a connection to facilitate this.

It sounds like you mount the mike on top of the camera (“I run the MKE 600 into the MixPre using a short XLR cable.“). If, like robdoc, I was recording interviews, I’d use a fairly long XLR cable to get the mike closer to the subject, but perhaps that is unnecessary for your purposes.

If my assumption is correct that you have the mike mounted on the camera, have you run into any issues, indoors or outdoors, with the mike picking up fan/vent noise?

On fan noise indoors with the Blackmagic Micro Cinema Camera (not the Pocket 6K), see this January 14 post: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=105319#p584885
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostTue Jan 21, 2020 12:31 am

robedge wrote:Yes, an option for people who are happy to have the camera and MixPre stacked. The top of the MixPre even has a connection to facilitate this.

It sounds like you mount the mike on top of the camera (“I run the MKE 600 into the MixPre using a short XLR cable.“). If, like robdoc, I was recording interviews, I’d use a fairly long XLR cable to get the mike closer to the subject, but perhaps that is unnecessary for your purposes.

If my assumption is correct that you have the mike mounted on the camera, have you run into any issues, indoors or outdoors, with the mike picking up fan/vent noise?

On fan noise, see this January 14 post: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=105319#p584885


Yes, I have the mic mounted on top. I actually got the MixPre because of this particular setup. I wanted better pre-amps. It also helps when I'm running a couple wireless lavs.

I'm usually capturing an athlete in the gym, so it's easiest to have the mic on top. Running a wireless lab is not always good because the athletes that I'm shooting are strongmen, lifting heavy stones and logs, etc.

They do often stand in front of the camera before a lift and discuss what they are doing. I'd love to have a boom, but unfortunately, I don't always have the budget to bring a boom operator along.
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostTue Jan 21, 2020 12:56 am

Adam Silver wrote:
Yes, I have the mic mounted on top. I actually got the MixPre because of this particular setup. I wanted better pre-amps. It also helps when I'm running a couple wireless lavs.

I'm usually capturing an athlete in the gym, so it's easiest to have the mic on top. Running a wireless lab is not always good because the athletes that I'm shooting are strongmen, lifting heavy stones and logs, etc.

They do often stand in front of the camera before a lift and discuss what they are doing. I'd love to have a boom, but unfortunately, I don't always have the budget to bring a boom operator along.


For his interviews, robdoc could do something similar to your setup by using the MKE 600, in the absence of a boom operator, mounted on a stand, or by using wired or wireless lavaliers.

The advantages of wired lavaliers over wireless are that wired is less expensive, one doesn’t need to deal with the vagaries of transmitters and receivers and the sound will be better.

I still think that there are better choices than the MKE 600 for recording interviews, but I am clearly in the minority on that question :)
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostTue Jan 21, 2020 6:30 am

robedge wrote:
Adam Silver wrote:
Yes, I have the mic mounted on top. I actually got the MixPre because of this particular setup. I wanted better pre-amps. It also helps when I'm running a couple wireless lavs.

I'm usually capturing an athlete in the gym, so it's easiest to have the mic on top. Running a wireless lab is not always good because the athletes that I'm shooting are strongmen, lifting heavy stones and logs, etc.

They do often stand in front of the camera before a lift and discuss what they are doing. I'd love to have a boom, but unfortunately, I don't always have the budget to bring a boom operator along.


For his interviews, robdoc could do something similar to your setup by using the MKE 600, in the absence of a boom operator, mounted on a stand, or by using wired or wireless lavaliers.

The advantages of wired lavaliers over wireless are that wired is less expensive, one doesn’t need to deal with the vagaries of transmitters and receivers and the sound will be better.

I still think that there are better choices than the MKE 600 for recording interviews, but I am clearly in the minority on that question :)


Yup there's even a boom pole grip that you can mount on a c-stand. Exactly, but backups are important that's why I brought up the voice-memo stuff on a iPhone. Clearly the guy had very bad audio issues prior. Obviously that is subjective but I assume to the level of unusable.
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostTue Jan 21, 2020 12:52 pm

Hey Robdoc. Here's a video I shot using the MKE600 on a boom pole for a professional bodybuilder's training video. The mic was directly connected to the Pocket through the mini XLR port. The voiceover was also done with the MKE600. I held it in my hand as we sat together. I fed that into a Zoom H6N sound recorder.

Video:
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostTue Jan 21, 2020 12:54 pm

This was shot on the Pocket 6K a few days ago with the MKE600 on top of the camera and connected to the MixPre 3 II as I explained in another post above.

Video:
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostTue Jan 21, 2020 2:22 pm

Adam Silver wrote:Hey Robdoc. Here's a video I shot using the MKE600 on a boom pole for a professional bodybuilder's training video. The mic was directly connected to the Pocket through the mini XLR port. The voiceover was also done with the MKE600. I held it in my hand as we sat together. I fed that into a Zoom H6N sound recorder.


I don’t know what this video demonstrates about shooting video and recording sound for interviews. All but 15 seconds of this 12 minute video is voiceover.
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostTue Jan 21, 2020 2:32 pm

Adam Silver wrote:This was shot on the Pocket 6K a few days ago with the MKE600 on top of the camera and connected to the MixPre 3 II as I explained in another post above.


This is a YouTube vlogging video. It shows that if the mike is on top of the camera, the camera has to be practically on top of the person speaking. Is that you saying, at 02:12, “Speak up!”
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostTue Jan 21, 2020 2:53 pm

Both videos were for the other Rob to hear what that mic sounds like in the two different scenarios. In the second video, Andrew has a tendency to talk very low. Even off camera, people have a tough time hearing him at times.

Again, the purpose was for Rob to be able to hear the sound from that mic. He originally was asking about good mics. So, I gave him a sample of some video I had available.
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostTue Jan 21, 2020 3:39 pm

Adam Silver wrote:Andrew has a tendency to talk very low. Even off camera, people have a tough time hearing him at times.


You are making YouTube vlogging videos. I don’t doubt that you can stand on top of the people that you are working with to get the mike close enough and, on top of that, tell them “Speak up!” Given that it’s YouTube, you can even get away with leaving “Speak up!” in the finished video.

This is not how things work in documentary production, where the idea is to set up the camera and the mike in a way that meets the needs and comfort of the subject, not tell the subject to adjust to how you choose to set up your camera and sound recording. If sound recording is set up properly, it should never be necessary to tell a subject to “Speak up!”, although if one wants a flustered interviewee and a failed interview, that would be a good way to achieve it.

I don’t see how one can make a documentary with real people, instead of would-be YouTube stars, set up this way. Sorry, but I think that that video is a demonstration of how not to set up camera and sound for documentary interviews.

As importantly, it’s just not that hard to do it right.
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostTue Jan 21, 2020 5:17 pm

Indy Mogul/Ted Sim, “How to shoot cinematic interviews - 10 easy steps”, July 12, 2019

Sound recording at 12:27 (Andrew Jones, Brand Manager, Deity Microphones).

Quote: “We’re indoors. A hypercardiod, or just a cardiod, pencil mike is actually the ideal kind of microphone for this situation”:

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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostTue Jan 21, 2020 5:46 pm

What’s the best technique for attaching a lav to a half nude power lifter.

A. Clip the nipple
B. Necklace
C. Vampire clip

The correct answer is A.

Good Luck
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostTue Jan 21, 2020 6:10 pm

robedge wrote:
Adam Silver wrote:Andrew has a tendency to talk very low. Even off camera, people have a tough time hearing him at times.


You are making YouTube vlogging videos. I don’t doubt that you can stand on top of the people that you are working with to get the mike close enough and, on top of that, tell them “Speak up!” Given that it’s YouTube, you can even get away with leaving “Speak up!” in the finished video.

This is not how things work in documentary production, where the idea is to set up the camera and the mike in a way that meets the needs and comfort of the subject, not tell the subject to adjust to how you choose to set up your camera and sound recording. If sound recording is set up properly, it should never be necessary to tell a subject to “Speak up!”, although if one wants a flustered interviewee and a failed interview, that would be a good way to achieve it.

I don’t see how one can make a documentary with real people, instead of would-be YouTube stars, set up this way. Sorry, but I think that that video is a demonstration of how not to set up camera and sound for documentary interviews.

As importantly, it’s just not that hard to do it right.


Dude, you're an ass. Sorry to be so blunt. The purpose of MY post was NOT to discuss how to do a documentary. It was simply to answer his question about our recommendations on best microphones. Yes, the video with Larry and Andrew was shot, color corrected and edited all within a few hours. Yes, I left "Speak Up" in a near daily YouTube training video. These videos are raw, and that's the way our audience likes it.

But, this isn't supposed to be about me or how to shoot a documentary. It's about a recommendation on mics.

The videos still do give people an idea of how this particular mic works in this situation.

So, I hope you feel better about yourself and your superior skillset.
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostTue Jan 21, 2020 6:11 pm

Howard Roll wrote:What’s the best technique for attaching a lav to a half nude power lifter.

A. Clip the nipple
B. Necklace
C. Vampire clip

The correct answer is A.

Good Luck


LOL!
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostTue Jan 21, 2020 6:55 pm

Adam Silver wrote:Dude, you're an ass. Sorry to be so blunt. The purpose of MY post was NOT to discuss how to do a documentary. It was simply to answer his question about our recommendations on best microphones. Yes, the video with Larry and Andrew was shot, color corrected and edited all within a few hours. Yes, I left "Speak Up" in a near daily YouTube training video. These videos are raw, and that's the way our audience likes it.

But, this isn't supposed to be about me or how to shoot a documentary. It's about a recommendation on mics.

The videos still do give people an idea of how this particular mic works in this situation.

So, I hope you feel better about yourself and your superior skillset.


It’s a recommendation to someone who says that he wants to make a documentary featuring interviews.

I agree with Andrew Jones, Brand Manager, Diety Microphones, who says in the video four posts up that he recommends a hypercardiod or cardiod, not a shotgun, for indoor interviews. Curtis Judd, in the video linked in the second post, effectively says the same thing. So do working location sound recordists, which Andrew Jones has been (watch the video), who use hypercardiod/cardiod mikes for indoor interviews and dialogue as a matter of course.

This is sound recording 101 and reflects standard practice. Saying so does not make one an ass and does not suggest a claim to superior skill. It is just standard advice.

What’s remarkable is that there are people in this thread who refuse to acknowledge this, and that I’m now being subjected to a foul mouthed attack for saying things that are completely uncontroversial. Why are you so in love with your $330 shotgun microphone that you want to launch a personal attack on someone who questions, based on standard recording practice, whether it’s the best choice for the job?
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