Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

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Adam Silver

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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostTue Jan 21, 2020 7:49 pm

robedge wrote:It’s a recommendation to someone who says that he wants to make a documentary featuring interviews.

I agree with Andrew Jones, Brand Manager, Diety Microphones, who says in the video four posts up that he recommends a hypercardiod or cardiod, not a shotgun, for indoor interviews. Curtis Judd, in the video linked in the second post, effectively says the same thing. So do working location sound recordists, which Andrew Jones has been (watch the video), who use hypercardiod/cardiod mikes for indoor interviews and dialogue as a matter of course.

This is sound recording 101 and reflects standard practice. Saying so does not make one an ass and does not suggest a claim to superior skill. It is just standard advice.

What’s remarkable is that there are people in this thread who refuse to acknowledge this, and that I’m now being subjected to a foul mouthed attack for saying things that are completely uncontroversial. Why are you so in love with your $330 shotgun microphone that you want to launch a personal attack on someone who questions whether it’s the best choice for the job?


Andrew Jones and Curtis Judd are great guys. I watch a lot of Curtis's videos. Yes, a hypercardiod or cardiod mic are great for indoor interviews, but you can setup a shotgun on a stand using a boom pole holder. I've done that, and it worked really well. It was especially good in my case because it was in a gym with lots of other surrounding ambient sound.

Anyway, I just want to end with why I responded the way I did. You were making light or degrading the video I shot.

robedge wrote:You are making YouTube vlogging videos. I don’t doubt that you can stand on top of the people that you are working with to get the mike close enough and, on top of that, tell them “Speak up!” Given that it’s YouTube, you can even get away with leaving “Speak up!” in the finished video.


If you were a fan of that channel, you'd know why I said "Speak Up" and left it in there, rather than reshoot the intro. So, yeah, I took that as an attack. I don't come here to tear people down. We're all here to help each other. If you wanted to disagree with my statements, you could have jumped in and just said that you'd recommend a hypercardiod or cardiod for indoor interviews because the polar pattern is best, etc. You didn't have to attack me.

I won't discuss this further and take away from the thread.
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robedge

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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostTue Jan 21, 2020 8:01 pm

Adam Silver wrote:you could have jumped in and just said that you'd recommend a hypercardiod or cardiod for indoor interviews...


I questioned using a shotgun and/or suggested a hypercardiod/cardiod in six different posts in this thread before our exchange. I also suggested that wired lavaliers may be a suitable option.
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Denny Smith

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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostWed Jan 22, 2020 6:49 pm

This is like asking, “what lens should I buy for a Pocket Camera?” The answer is going to depend on the OPs budget, his audio quality experience and expectations, and the audio sound he likes, and what he is trying to record. Mic choices are a,plmost as wide as lens choices, a good place to start is to rent different setups and see what works and what does not work for shooting situation. Making a blanket recommendation based on our experience is almost like “*P*”:in the wind... :roll:
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostSat Feb 15, 2020 6:51 pm

robedge wrote:It would be interesting to hear a test of this mike plugged into the camera as against a good dedicated recorder.

Here is a Mic comparison using the Sennheiser MKE 600. It is an interview with the Director of City College of San Francisco's Homeless and At Risk Transitional Students program.

It was a two camera shoot using a Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K with a Sennheiser MKE 600 Supercardioid Mic mounted on top and a Panasonic GH5 dual recorded using a Lectrosonics UCR100/UM100 lavalier Mic into a Tascam MR-60D recorder. A professor who teaches HDTV Field Production setup the recorder. The Blackmagic camera was set at UHD 422 10 bit ProRes Light in video dynamic range mode and the GH5 was shot in 4K/420/8Bit/LongGOP 100Mbps LPCM MP4.

Both recordings had the Tube modelled compressor plug-in from Premiere Pro set to voice thickener. The MKE 600 needed it's extra sensitivity because the speaker at 8 feet away did not project loudly enough (indicated -20 to -25 dB during the recording) and the gain was turned all the way up on the camera. Although this is not optimal for the pre-amp, the results were quite good and additional gain was not used in post, outside of the compressor. I used the de-reverb plug-in set to 45% to get rid of the live room reflections. There was a loud elevator about 30 feet away but thankfully, it did not appear on the recording. I recorded on a monopod leaning against the doorway and an Omni Mic would have heard the elevator.

It was about 60 degrees F outside and since I was not using Braw Q0 or ProRes HQ, I did not hear the cameras fans kick in.

I used a small Clar Venus rgb led light as a key set at 4400K and 30% to match the fluorescent overhead lights. The GH5 had trouble with glare and IR pollution from this, but the BMPCC 4K had it under control thanks to Tiffen Variable ND and Hoya IR cut filters.
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostSun Feb 16, 2020 12:05 am

dondidnod wrote:Here is a Mic comparison using the Sennheiser MKE 600.


I think that that is a pretty good demonstration of how a lapel mike can save your butt in a reverberant room, and that de-reverb wizardry, despite a valiant effort, will only get you so far :) If the objective in an interview is clarity, it’s pretty clear to me, listening on an iOS device, which recording works better. Do you hear it differently? As a matter of curiosity, do you know what lapel mike you were using with the Lectrosonics wireless?
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostSun Feb 16, 2020 12:22 am

The lav Mic was a Sony ECM 44. I took the foam wind filter off of the MKE 600, so it may have been more sensitive to reflections. That Mic reportedly has a greater high-end bite than other Sennheiser shotguns. I'll EQ it before the assignment is due. It should air on the school's cable TV channel, IDTV (https://m.facebook.com/ccsfidtv/).

I think they use the early version of the Tascam MR-60D, not the Mk. II with the improved pre-amps. It seemed to me that it lacked some headroom and sounded a little harsh on the transients. That could have been the pre-amp though. This was more evident when I used the voice leveler preset on the compressor. The voice thickener preset made them both sound warmer and more pleasing.
Last edited by dondidnod on Sat Jan 16, 2021 12:11 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostSun Feb 16, 2020 12:49 am

dondidnod wrote:Not sure yet on the lav Mic. The interviewer on our PSA team checked the equipment out from the school's issue room. I'll check on it after the holiday. I took the foam wind filter off of the MKE 600, so it may have been more sensitive to reflections.

I think they use the early version of the Tascam MR-60D, not the Mk. II with the improved pre-amps. It seemed to me that it lacked some headroom and sounded a little harsh on the transients. That could have been the pre-amp though. This was more evident when I used the voice leveler preset on the compressor. The voice thickener preset made them both sound warmer and more pleasing.


You might find it useful to watch this. In addition to having his own channel, the presenter does iZotope’s videos. This video is about voice over, but much of what he says applies to interviews.

For the interview in your post, I don’t think it matters which version of the Tascam was used, or whether the foam windscreen was on or off the mike. I also wonder about the use of compression and the voice presets. The dynamic range of the woman speaking doesn’t call out for compression. What are you “fixing”? If you want to do an experiment, I’d suggest recording with a shotgun mike and a cardiod mike indoors in the same circumstances, and see how each recording turns out.

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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostFri Jan 15, 2021 3:43 pm

I actually looking to get a Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera first of all. Don't you know guys, where can I find one for a good price?! After that I am also looking forward to get a good microphone that would work properly with it. What do you guys think about the Schoeps CMC64? Is it any good?
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostFri Jan 15, 2021 4:50 pm

Activark wrote:After that I am also looking forward to get a good microphone that would work properly with it. What do you guys think about the Schoeps CMC64? Is it any good?


I use Schoeps CMC 6 preamps with MK2 (omnidirectional) and MK 41 (supercardiod) microphone capsules. These are extremely good microphones. The MK 41 is probably the most widely used microphone for big budget feature film dialogue. The MK 4 has a somewhat less directional, cardiod pickup pattern than the MK 41 supercardiod. I wish I had a couple. It's a great microphone for, among other things, ORTF stereo recording, but I manage to do OK with ORTF using a pair of MK 41s.
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostFri Jan 15, 2021 5:21 pm

robedge wrote:
Activark wrote:After that I am also looking forward to get a good microphone that would work properly with it. What do you guys think about the Schoeps CMC64? Is it any good?


I use Schoeps CMC 6 preamps with MK2 (omnidirectional) and MK 41 (supercardiod) microphone capsules. These are extremely good microphones. The MK 41 is probably the most widely used microphone for big budget feature film dialogue. The MK 4 has a somewhat less directional, cardiod pickup pattern than the MK 41 supercardiod. I wish I had a couple. It's a great microphone for, among other things, ORTF stereo recording, but I manage to do OK with ORTF using a pair of MK 41s.


Very good choice going to the MK41 but according to VintageKing, no longer available; here’s a good summary of the characteristics:

https://vintageking.com/schoeps-mikrofone-cmc641c-set

I went with a pair of Line Audio Design CM-4 mics (from Sweden); they do a very good job on vocals and are what I’d call budget mics. I feed the (ORTF) audio into the MixPre-6 II recorder.
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostFri Jan 15, 2021 5:26 pm

rick.lang wrote:
Very good choice going to the MK41 but according to VintageKing, no longer available


Vintage King is just talking about that particular box set SKU. The CMC641 is readily available at Vintage King and everywhere else that sells Schoeps microphones. Here's the Vintage King link: https://vintageking.com/schoeps-cmc641-set
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostFri Jan 15, 2021 5:39 pm

Further to Rick's post and my response, it is worth noting that Schoeps has launched a new preamp, the CMC1, that is a compact alternative to the CMC6. If someone is purchasing his first Schoeps mike, this new preamp is well worth investigating.

The one caution is that there are currently limited wind protection options for it. When I checked a few months ago, the main maker of wind protection for Schoeps mikes paired with the new preamps was the Paris company Cinela. Cinela makes really excellent wind protection (I use its Léonard product), but its wind protectors aren't inexpensive.
Last edited by robedge on Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostFri Jan 15, 2021 5:52 pm

Ah, thanks for the remarks pointing out it’s only the boxed set that’s no longer available.
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostFri Jan 15, 2021 6:06 pm

rick.lang wrote:Ah, thanks for the remarks pointing out it’s only the boxed set that’s no longer available.


You just about gave me a heart attack :)

Your post did remind me that there's a new line of preamps. If I were purchasing Schoeps mikes from scratch, I might well go with them. That said, I don't think that these new preamps will be replacing the CMC6 anytime soon.

Re your comment about Line Audio, I haven't tried their mikes, but everything that I've read about them is positive. They sound like very good value for money.

The question that I have for Simon is whether his reference to the MK4 cardiod rather than the MK41 supercardiod is deliberate. Depending on what he's doing, the MK4 may be the right choice, but the MK41 is the more common choice for dialogue.
Last edited by robedge on Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostFri Jan 15, 2021 6:13 pm

If you are further than 1 meter from your object, FORGET IT !!
There is no microphone that does that well.
You can use something like this for an interview, but I will not use something like in serious work like movies
I'd rather dub sound afterwards or try it wireless tie mics
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Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostFri Jan 15, 2021 6:47 pm

Peter, there is the option to use them from a boom; I used them about a meter or so away when recording vocals for a music video and the Line Audio Design CM-4 did fine. I was cautious about ordering them but glad I did. They’re not for every purpose though.
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostFri Jan 15, 2021 10:41 pm

rick.lang wrote:Peter, there is the option to use them from a boom; I used them about a meter or so away when recording vocals for a music video and the Line Audio Design CM-4 did fine. I was cautious about ordering them but glad I did. They’re not for every purpose though.


One meter is one meter beyond 1 meter I will not rely on any microphone
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostSun Jan 17, 2021 9:28 pm

The best this really would be to get something that fits your budget and start learning what you really need.

Wireless lavalier mic would be good to have or small recorder with lavalier mic. Maybe some of those shotgun mics also that can be charged from USB and have inbuilt amplifier. There is many good reviews on those.

Too complicated setup and it really gets complicated to manage it all by one person, and professional recorders you need to learn to use like professional cameras and easy to make mistakes when busy.
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostSun Jan 17, 2021 10:37 pm

Kim Janson wrote:The best this really would be to get something that fits your budget and start learning what you really need.

Wireless lavalier mic would be good to have or small recorder with lavalier mic. Maybe some of those shotgun mics also that can be charged from USB and have inbuilt amplifier. There is many good reviews on those.

Too complicated setup and it really gets complicated to manage it all by one person, and professional recorders you need to learn to use like professional cameras and easy to make mistakes when busy.


Simon asked specifically for opinions on Schoeps's CMC64 microphone. The fact that he's asking about that mike tells me that he either knows something about microphones or has done some pretty good research. With respect to budget, presumably he knows what it costs. For all I know, he has a line on one second hand, which is how I got my first Schoeps mike, a CMC541.

How do we get from his question to the assumption that he doesn't know anything, and should purchase a lavaliere or a shotgun, which are completely different microphones, not just from a CMC64 but as between themselves?

In any event, I really don't think that figuring out how to use a condenser microphone and an audio recorder is particularly complicated. As someone who uses both condenser and lavaliere mikes, I also think that it's clear that lavalieres are more difficult to work with, and that wireless adds expense and complications that are best avoided unless one has a demonstrable need for wireless.

There's already quite a lot of information in this thread, which he has presumably read, about general options. If he wants to ask about a particular use case, no doubt he will.
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Kim Janson

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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostMon Jan 18, 2021 7:03 am

As I read this is his previous experience is:

"The first documentary I made was really troubled with poor audio as I recorded all the video/audio on a sony camcorder. "

I am just saying, the best next step probably is not

"I am looking to buy a really high quality microphone (I am thinking shotgun) to go on or with my BMPCC 6K. "

The microphones around 300 euro can provide pretty good quality already if selected wisely and especially when used correctly. Microphone that has inbuilt amplifier is good starting point with P6K like Rode VideoMic NTG

Here is nice review of it



around 5:40 it demonstrates a situation where lavalier mic would be handy. especially if shooting alone.
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostMon Jan 18, 2021 7:50 am

Kim Janson wrote:As I read this is his previous experience is:

"The first documentary I made was really troubled with poor audio as I recorded all the video/audio on a sony camcorder. "

...


Hi Kim,

The post you are quoting is the first in the thread and was written by Rob Caprilozzi a year ago. His post, including various microphone options, was discussed for a page and a half. RØDE’s VideoMic line was one of the options discussed. So were other shotguns, cardiods and lavalieres. The discussion ended 11 months ago.

A different person - Simon Clarkson (Aktivark) - revived the thread three days ago and asked a question about Schoeps’s CMC64 cardiod microphone. That question is what Rick Lang and I have been responding to. Rick raised Line Audio’s cardiod, which he has personal experience with, as a cost-effective alternative. Having used Schoeps mikes for over a decade, I talked about Schoeps’s new CMC1 preamp as an alternative to the CMC6, and about the difference between the MK4 cardiod and MK41 supercardiod capsules.
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostMon Jan 18, 2021 11:08 am

ok, did not note the time between posts, and did not read it all, just the first and some last ones, that got me wondering the direction the discussion had taken :D
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostFri May 28, 2021 10:44 am

If it helps
Mics that I often use and love to use apart from Lavs for interviews in a setup both for indoors and outdoors are Sennheiser MKH 50 and Schoeps CMC6 41 set, 40 to 60 cm distance from the source. There are of course many others to consider but those I know well personally. If for budject reasons I would take a look at the Audio Technica AT4053b, tis is amazing mike for its price, tested these few times and liked quite well.
For run and gun situations interviews and ambiance my personal favorite is MKH 416 and sometimes I use ME66 that also works well.
Last edited by Johannes Jonsson on Fri May 28, 2021 5:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

PostFri May 28, 2021 1:22 pm

Yes, the Schoeps MK 41 hypercardiod is really great. I also love the Sanken CS3e shotgun which has extraordinary off axis rejection.
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