Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

The place for questions about shooting with Blackmagic Cameras.
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Mac Jaeger

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 2:50 pm

What exactly are we pissed of?

Either i bought the camera yesterday, then today it will have the same use and value for me, regardless of what other people have to pay now for it. I wouldn't have bought it, if i didn't think it was worth the money, right?

Or i buy the camera today, then i will gratefully accept the $1000 cash left for other stuff.

The only reason we are so pissed is ENVY, isn't it? No matter how many words we spin, it's nothing other than that. And that's really no reason for all the fuss.
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photostrobist

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 2:51 pm

Where.? I wan to buy one Camera for 1,995 but where?


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bhook

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 2:52 pm

I'm thinking this forebodes the discontinuation of both of the BMCC models. I suspect that by NAB 2014 (and what is this obsession BMD seems to have with NAB?) you won't be able to buy either of the BMCCs from BMD.
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photostrobist

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 2:56 pm

Please giveme a link to buy one blackmagic camera for 1,995. Please........ Or is a joke one more...


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sebasti

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 3:03 pm

Andrew Reid wrote:No competition? Full frame 14bit 1080p raw on the $3000 5D Mark III is definitely competition


It is still a hack and although it is getting better every day, it still have many shortcomings when compared to basic functions of a proper videocamera. If someone goes and buys 5D mkIII just because of this RAW hack to shoot video professionally, they got it terribly wrong. They will not be able to charge Alexa rate just because they can deliver 14bit RAW over h264. Now if you already own mkIII or need to buy it because you actually need that camera for its other uses then it is one additional tool you just got for free... it brought little bit more "usable" value to your camera. There are many other reasons to choose 5D over other cameras but i'm sure having RAW hack is not a valid reason if your main point on choosing camera is to buy a camera that can do RAW.
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Marshall Harrington

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 3:04 pm

Just read Grant's email then logged into the forum. Listening to everyone complaining is disheartening. All the viscous attacks on Grant and BM are so shortsighted.

I get it that everyone feels like they lost some dough, I did to. But I hear very few saying what they did or will get down the road.

1. Now you can afford third party audio meters that come with a pretty nice EVF.
2. I've never had a camera system based on one body. Always a few. No matter what, they will break so you have to have backup. Also newer models come out with newer features. Still a system though. I do have hopes for a higher frame-rate body that might just be used for that purpose only.
3. As a BMC EF owner I can now add an MFT for much less and also have a second resolve seat as well, a great deal.
4. BMCC is here to stay and will become a more affordable and prominent part of the cinema ecosystem.
5. This action has got to be weighing in on the competition forcing them to position their pricing in the ecosystem.
6. We're supporting a company that is actually bring prices down not up. It's not perfect because they are small, but they are headed the right direction.

This is just a quick list that can and should be added to. The implications of this and Blackmagic's other actions is another step in a positive and affordable direction.

Thank you.
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photostrobist

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 3:08 pm

Yeeeees. Bh change the price and i get one.


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Eduardo Gonzalez

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 3:09 pm

Frank Glencairn wrote:
metaljesus wrote:Great so my resale and rental values just took a massive hit.


Yeah well...

Same thing happened to C100/RED owners. You shouldn't see a camera as an investment. If you want a good resale value, buy gold.

On the other hand, anyone with a $3000 BMC, should be able to make it pay for itself within the first 3 jobs, or you do something totally wrong, since the BMC was a bargain at 3k in the first place..

Regarding rental value - it was never good on any $3000 camera - no mater what brand - anyway. Dollies and cranes rent for more and keep their value over a long period - if you planned to make money by renting a cheap camera in a world of fast changing technology, you just made an uniformed business decision.



Well said sir, well said! People who think a camera body is an investment are like people who buy a car thinking it will be an investment. They depreciate in value as technology and competition take us forward. The first thing I do when I speak in University Students' classrooms and their video production classes is tell them, "Your first mistake is right now you want a 5d Mark 3, then the next class will want a Blackmagic Cinema Camera, the next a 4k, the next a 6k and so on. Your camera should not be your first purchase, you should invest in a dang good tripod, a dang good audio system, dang good lighting, dang good filters, a dang good follow focus and matte box, and dang good rig and the most important part of your system - the glass. Buy dang good glass. Once you do this 4 years from now, and actually 10 years from now, you will kiss these products being thankful you made the smart decision to invest heavily in them versus a camera. Cameras come and go and just think when Philip Bloom first became popular we all HAD TO HAVE the Letus and Brevis 35mm converter systems. Remember the Canon XL1? When I was in college doing my Documentary Production program, these cameras costed the Communications department nearly $8000 to purchase. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMuUu06LeFo

Remember the first iphone? HAD TO HAVE IT? Now look as it collects dust among all your other devices? Remember your flat screen tv you had to have in 2009? 720p and 32" costed my father-in-law $2299 and that same TV goes for $100.00 today if I'm lucky. Remember the Sony EX1? Couldn't afford it right? I sure as hell couldn't. Yet here were the industry leaders using them and they were work horses. Think before you buy!!!!!"

Back to the really ticked off people on this forum and owners of Blackmagic's products.
Now Blackmagic comes along offering a Pocket camera that offers 13 stops of dynamic range, log or rec 709 and m43 mount and later compressed raw for $999, a 2.5k for $2995, now $1995, and a 4k camera with global shutter for $3995 and we get pissed off at them ??? What the heck is wrong with you people. Why will you give other company's a pass but not Blackmagic? You know why? Those of you who are pissed off didn't try to buy a RED one when it first came out or previous Canon Cameras that had severe back ordering problems. This is your experience. You're going through what those purchasers went through and you're learning. Take this next lesson to heart as Frank is right on point, a camera IS NOT AN INVESTMENT IN YOUR FUTURE!!!! It is a tool people, a tool for telling stories. Rental houses are trying to get rid of their cameras from just a few years ago and it's difficult to get rid of them. The Grassvalley Viper shot the movie, "Collateral" and was $150,000 in 2002 and now you can purchase the same camera for $4000.00. Go figure, technology changes and PRICES WILL DROP!!!!!

Now here's a little piece of advice and it comes from many filmmakers around the world, including an experienced and seasoned one you can follow on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/drewnetwork
Andrew will tell you "Please don't buy a new camera the moment it is announced. You will be severely disappointed 9/10 times. Maybe it'll be due to shipping, maybe it'll be due to the fact that you end up hating it, or yelling at your screen every time you see aliasing and moire. DON'T DO IT!" (paraphrased). I sure as hell don't do it. I wait, I rent, I sample, I try and then make my decision. Guys I do this for a living yet I hardly own any camera body. I learned that a long time ago. So think before you buy! And please don't think a camera body will be a great investment in which you can make it back by renting it out!
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Michael Coviello

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 3:16 pm

Both the EF and MFT BMCC are no longer on the b and h website. Maybe they're updating the price?
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GouthamShankar

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 3:18 pm

Not sure who will have the wow ! effect with the price drop.

Already so many are still waiting to get there pre-ordered BMCC and surprising move here by dropping it 1000 USD. Not fair at all.

Any consideration for all those people who have already procured it. Not even few months already a huge depreciation. Not happy at all. I am surely canceling my 4k Pre-Order. There is no way I can take a risk on investing so much money on the product where the team behind it has not rationale in dropping the price with such a huge number.

I would request the BMCC team to consider all the customers request and do something favorable to all the customers who have procured the BMCC by paying 1k USD more.
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Kingsley Paul

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 3:20 pm

Eduardo Gonzalez wrote:
Frank Glencairn wrote:
metaljesus wrote:Great so my resale and rental values just took a massive hit.


Yeah well...

Same thing happened to C100/RED owners. You shouldn't see a camera as an investment. If you want a good resale value, buy gold.

On the other hand, anyone with a $3000 BMC, should be able to make it pay for itself within the first 3 jobs, or you do something totally wrong, since the BMC was a bargain at 3k in the first place..

Regarding rental value - it was never good on any $3000 camera - no mater what brand - anyway. Dollies and cranes rent for more and keep their value over a long period - if you planned to make money by renting a cheap camera in a world of fast changing technology, you just made an uniformed business decision.



Well said sir, well said! People who think a camera body is an investment are like people who buy a car thinking it will be an investment. They depreciate in value as technology and competition take us forward. The first thing I do when I speak in University Students' classrooms and their video production classes is tell them, "Your first mistake is right now you want a 5d Mark 3, then the next class will want a Blackmagic Cinema Camera, the next a 4k, the next a 6k and so on. Your camera should not be your first purchase, you should invest in a dang good tripod, a dang good audio system, dang good lighting, dang good filters, a dang good follow focus and matte box, and dang good rig and the most important part of your system - the glass. Buy dang good glass. Once you do this 4 years from now, and actually 10 years from now, you will kiss these products being thankful you made the smart decision to invest heavily in them versus a camera. Cameras come and go and just think when Philip Bloom first became popular we all HAD TO HAVE the Letus and Brevis 35mm converter systems. Remember the Canon XL1? When I was in college doing my Documentary Production program, these cameras costed the Communications department nearly $8000 to purchase. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMuUu06LeFo

Remember the first iphone? HAD TO HAVE IT? Now look as it collects dust among all your other devices? Remember your flat screen tv you had to have in 2009? 720p and 32" costed my father-in-law $2299 and that same TV goes for $100.00 today if I'm lucky. Remember the Sony EX1? Couldn't afford it right? I sure as hell couldn't. Yet here were the industry leaders using them and they were work horses. Think before you buy!!!!!"

Back to the really ticked off people on this forum and owners of Blackmagic's products.
Now Blackmagic comes along offering a Pocket camera that offers 13 stops of dynamic range, log or rec 709 and m43 mount and later compressed raw for $999, a 2.5k for $2995, now $1995, and a 4k camera with global shutter for $3995 and we get pissed off at them ??? What the heck is wrong with you people. Why will you give other company's a pass but not Blackmagic? You know why? Those of you who are pissed off didn't try to buy a RED one when it first came out or previous Canon Cameras that had severe back ordering problems. This is your experience. You're going through what those purchasers went through and you're learning. Take this next lesson to heart as Frank is right on point, a camera IS NOT AN INVESTMENT IN YOUR FUTURE!!!! It is a tool people, a tool for telling stories. Rental houses are trying to get rid of their cameras from just a few years ago and it's difficult to get rid of them. The Grassvalley Viper shot the movie, "Collateral" and was $150,000 in 2002 and now you can purchase the same camera for $4000.00. Go figure, technology changes and PRICES WILL DROP!!!!!

Now here's a little piece of advice and it comes from many filmmakers around the world, including an experienced and seasoned one you can follow on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/drewnetwork
Andrew will tell you "Please don't buy a new camera the moment it is announced. You will be severely disappointed 9/10 times. Maybe it'll be due to shipping, maybe it'll be due to the fact that you end up hating it, or yelling at your screen every time you see aliasing and moire. DON'T DO IT!" (paraphrased). I sure as hell don't do it. I wait, I rent, I sample, I try and then make my decision. Guys I do this for a living yet I hardly own any camera body. I learned that a long time ago. So think before you buy! And please don't think a camera body will be a great investment in which you can make it back by renting it out!


Really good advice...You are right, we need to make investments on right items.
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sean mclennan

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 3:21 pm

photostrobist wrote:Please giveme a link to buy one blackmagic camera for 1,995. Please........ Or is a joke one more...


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B&H

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Peter J. DeCrescenzo

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 3:25 pm

... it was only a few days ago (see the underlined text):

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6795&p=64963&sid=fb2275e87a11cfc59fe3c183ad75e279#p64963

Sigh ...

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Last edited by Peter J. DeCrescenzo on Fri Aug 02, 2013 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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stoneinapond

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 3:25 pm

Michael Coviello wrote:Both the EF and MFT BMCC are no longer on the b and h website. Maybe they're updating the price?


Price has been adjusted.
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Tom

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 3:32 pm

Samjack wrote:
The problem is early adopters they may be but they only just recieved the camera. If people have adopted early and recieved their cameras 6-12 months ago then the price drop perhaps it doesnt matter.


I AM an early adopter - I ordered it 2 weeks after NAB 2012. Mine arrived at the end of March.

I knew the risks because I know what it is to be an early adopter. If some people didnt know, well they do now. Lesson learned for some I guess.
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Darryl Gregory

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 3:33 pm

Amazing news! Thank you Grant Petty and everyone at BMD I'm thrilled to hear of the price drop, But I have one question? What makes the 4K Production camera worth 4K now? or are you planing on dropping the price on that camera also?

I just ordered The MFT Version, Again thank you!

UPDATE: And I ordered this
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/8 ... tsuit.html
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Maarten Butter

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 3:39 pm

Theodore Prentice wrote:Should have kept the price the same, use the profit to pay more techs to work on firmware fixes and updates.


+1

Mixed feelings, though. Like the fact that my b Cam is a whole lot cheaper...
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Frank Glencairn

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 3:52 pm

I'm old enough, to remember a time, where it took cameramen 5-8 years (sometimes more) to pay off the credit for their Digibetas .
Some got into deep dept, some mortgaged their home, some where forced to take every underpaid crappy camera job for it, andwhatnot. Some guys even never got enough money or credit to come anywhere near of owning a Digibeta.

Getting ROI within a few months was absolute out of question back than.

And now we have a much better camera, with higher resolution, better DR, lossles codec and much better overall image quality for 5% of the price, that you can ROI within a few jobs and you guys complain, that you "lost" 1000 bucks, because you bought too early, instead of taking advantage of it and buy an other one?

Really?
Last edited by Frank Glencairn on Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Darryl Gregory

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 4:02 pm

I'm confused as to why people are complaining? Did you have plans to sell your Camera in the next month or 2? Are you not happy with your cameras image?
This is great news and we should be extremely grateful and celebrating Grant Petty's Decision,
I can now afford to Buy 3 maybe 4 cameras if I needed to for a larger production/Feature and not drain my bank account, This price drop is a time for celebration, I understand the frustration of those who purchased at the original price, but seriously if you can't earn $1000 back in a few weeks by shooting with the camera maybe you should consider doing something else for a living.

But I do feel for the Hobbyist shooter who paid the original price.
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ChrisBarcellos

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 4:11 pm

If you couple this announcement with the announcement that certain firmware changes will be made for EF and MTF, one wonders if Black Magic is giving up on fixing the issues that make it not what was advertised on the sound side.

Camera Update

There will be an update for the 2.5K Blackmagic Cinema Camera soon that will also add these features, plus new de-bayer processing that will improve the cameras sharpness when shooting non RAW files.

The Blackmagic Production Camera 4K is not yet shipping as we need some more time. Our first batch of sensors was delivered only this week, so we have not been able to complete the software for the camera. We expect to start shipping in about 3 to 4 weeks once the final software work and testing is completed.
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Darryl Gregory

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 4:28 pm

ChrisBarcellos wrote:If you couple this announcement with the announcement that certain firmware changes will be made for EF and MTF, one wonders if Black Magic is giving up on fixing the issues that make it not what was advertised on the sound side.

Camera Update

There will be an update for the 2.5K Blackmagic Cinema Camera soon that will also add these features, plus new de-bayer processing that will improve the cameras sharpness when shooting non RAW files.

The Blackmagic Production Camera 4K is not yet shipping as we need some more time. Our first batch of sensors was delivered only this week, so we have not been able to complete the software for the camera. We expect to start shipping in about 3 to 4 weeks once the final software work and testing is completed.


Sorry Chris but that makes no sense, Why would you think there is some sort of conspiracy behind the price drop?

Maybe more delays on firmware, but I don't think the price drop is anything more
than a decision from Grant Petty to appease the masses. And generate sales, this is a CEO's Job.
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PaulDelVecchio

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 4:35 pm

The $3000 price bracket is now open for another cam. IBC is in Sept, no? Maybe we'll see something there that will fit this price bracket. Maybe not.
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Darryl Gregory

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 4:37 pm

PaulDelVecchio wrote:The $3000 price bracket is now open for another cam. IBC is in Sept, no? Maybe we'll see something there that will fit this price bracket. Maybe not.

Now this is a conspiracy I can understand :D
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michael83

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 4:41 pm

This is downright offensive, had I known the price was going to drop 1k bucks a month after I got the camera...
I would’ve missed all eight months of pain and suffering, waiting and being ignored, not even knowing if I was going to get my BMCC MFT and it now turns out I could’ve just do nothing and get the camera a month after for a thousand dollars less! It’s ridiculous, outrageous! How can BMD have so little regard for their costumers, I feel so abused.
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Anthony Torres

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 4:42 pm

First, Thanks to Grant Petty and BMD for doing something so radical as creating a 2.5K camera for $3K, then dropping it to $2K. BMD appears to be the company Grant Petty wished had existed when he started out. That's a pretty radical ethos to make filmmaking accessible, and this price reduction falls in line with that.

Second, a sincere "Thank you" to everyone who pre ordered the BMCC. This is not sarcasm. You voted for BMD to produce the BMCC. Your confidence proved there was a market for these cameras, which is responsible for the forthcoming Pocket and Production models, as well as this price reduction. Early adopters are necessary for technology to innovate. The first ones through the wall get bloody, to quote Moneyball. Doesn't mean you should be last in line.

Third, the $1,000 drop hurts. Anyone who's worked with technology has felt that pain. I have lost a cumulative year or two learning various software that was too buggy or reached end of life within a year. The skills are portable, but not the investment in software licenses and training. You have right to be angry, just try to find a productive outlet for your anger. Don't lose $1,000 in time seeking restitution.

Fourth, we're all benefitting from technology. Yet, technology is not fair. Prices will drop. Values will plummet. Superior formats will fail in favor of convenience. Programs will disappear from market.

Fifth, Even at $2,000, the BMCC is NOT for everyone. For your own sanity, rent any gear you hope to buy. All the great reviews don't matter if you don't like it. TheLensDepot.com rents the BMCC EF body for $186/week. DaVinci Resolve Lite is free for download. $200 is worth investing to save $1800 should you find the workflow impossible.

Cheers!
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Andrew Reid

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 4:52 pm

Blipblop75 wrote:
Yes, and Canon have made C100 for that purpose, it has more and stronger video chipset inside, 5D is a still camera yet is has some video capacity, but is it not made to handle heavy video flows.
Hacking it to get Raw video will probably risking to overheat it.

C100 is a nice camera but little too expensive.


Well that's not entirely true. Raw video is simply a RAM dump to the CF card, it isn't a processing heavy task. The processing heavy stuff is what is required to debayer it, encode it, compress it, etc. You do that in post with raw and there's no overheating risk.
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Andrew Reid

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 4:57 pm

Frank Glencairn wrote:I'm old enough, to remember a time, where it took cameramen 5-8 years (sometimes more) to pay off the credit for their Digibetas .
Some got into deep dept, some mortgaged their home, some where forced to take every underpaid crappy camera job for it, andwhatnot. Some guys even never got enough money or credit to come anywhere near of owning a Digibeta.

Getting ROI within a few months was absolute out of question back than.

And now we have a much better camera, with higher resolution, better DR, lossles codec and much better overall image quality for 5% of the price, that you can ROI within a few jobs and you guys complain, that you "lost" 1000 bucks, because you bought too early, instead of taking advantage of it and buy an other one?

Really?


That's the consumer market mindset through and through, and to be fair to the consumers the BMCC is mainly aimed at them!

You can look at the BMCC as an enabler, for a pro to get great results from and earn a living from, and to many it is just that.

You can also look at the BMCC as a consumer camera to who $1000 is a lot of money and not everyone has the opportunity of turning a purchase into a profit. So I feel for them.
British filmmaker and editor of EOSHD
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David Jorgensen

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 5:07 pm

The price drop would not be such a big deal if people had not waited months and months for their pre-ordered cameras while getting completely ignored by the company, only to see the price drop dramatically after all of that aggravation. I ordered mine in March and got it 3 weeks later, so I am not thrilled it is 1/3 cheaper now, but I can deal with it. But I completely sympathize with people who loyally waited, especially for the MFT model, all the while being completely ignored by the company. This price drop is poorly timed and really is a slap in the face to those people who waited so long for their cameras.

Blackmagic has a serious PR problem which can easily be alleviated. They just need to communicate with their customers. Acknowledge shipping issues and technical issues. Let people know they are working to fix things and appreciate their paying customers. It's very, very simple.

Yes, some people complain too much and take things too far, but there is a legitimate and serious communication issue here.
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Mark de Jeu

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 5:18 pm

Everyone keeps feeling sorry for me. Please stop it. I am the consumer/hobbyist/non-pro, who waited a very long time and just received my BMCC MFT at the $3000 price. I am thrilled at the price drop. Please stop thinking that I must be upset. It was an incredible deal at $3000. Now even more people will be able to benefit from what a group of top-shelf, passionate engineers was able to create.

Thank you team BMD! Keep it coming!
Mark de Jeu
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Dmitry Kitsov

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 5:42 pm

PaulDelVecchio wrote:
Frank Glencairn wrote:
metaljesus wrote:Great so my resale and rental values just took a massive hit.


If you want a good resale value, buy gold.



Best line EVER!

If you want a good resale value - buy lenses.
Dmitry Kitsov
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Peter J. DeCrescenzo

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 5:45 pm

Dmitry Kitsov wrote:If you want a good resale value - buy lenses.


Especially PL mount lenses?

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rick.lang

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 5:45 pm

Frank Glencairn wrote:... Regarding rental value - it was never good on any $3000 camera - no mater what brand - anyway. Dollies and cranes rent for more and keep their value over a long period - if you planned to make money by renting a cheap camera in a world of fast changing technology, you just made an uniformed business decision.


In support of Frank's comment, there has recently been a two part article on the Creative Cow forum regarding rental houses and their view of the impact of digital cameras and the quickly changing technology landscape from the perspective of several large companies that have a rental business in Hollywood and other major centres.

One of the most interesting points is that the rental houses are ceding the rental of cameras in the $3,000 price range to those who do can do it on a small scale since they admit there isn't time for them to amortize their costs in the period the cameras will stay in demand as rentals. At about $3,000, they have found most operators just buy their own cameras and they may rent to the production on which they are shooting, but the rental agencies can't be competitive and are no longer in that game or are gracefully exiting that sector. From that perspective, it may be easier for people here to rent out their BMCC, as the options are gradually reducing to the sole operator/owner who rents his/her camera when it is idle.

At $1,995, I must admit even more camera operators will buy rather than rent. When you consider that there is something like $1,500 worth of software in that price, it is shockingly attractive. If I owned a BMCC that cost me $2,995, I might regret my timing but wouldn't be upset with BMD. As it is, I'm waiting for the BMPC4K and so the announcement may not impact me personally.

If I was a BMCC BMPC4K owner, I would be happy that the lower price will make the camera more attractive and that will lead to more, better, and cheaper third-party products tailored to that form factor and supporting its interfaces, and so on. Instead of becoming an interesting camera that enjoyed a brief moment in the sun and then faded from the scene, leaving you with a conversation piece that no one wants, it looks like BMD is very serious about carving out a significant market share and producing cameras with both the technology and price point that will be both irresistible to many purchases and very hard for the other major and startup operators to respond to in the way that BMD is capturing the imagination of an even larger segment of enthusiasts and professionals.

Of course there are better cameras with better firmware, but the value equation of the BMCC and its ecosystem has increased significantly with this price drop. If this was Sony or Canon, dominant players, there would be outrage that the big boys were strangling the competition and shutting out any newcomer. Governments would investigate for unfair business practices. The EU would be sanctioning the large company and banning the sale of all their products until high prices were restored.

Thankfully, BMD is the mouse that roared.

Enjoy, be happy, buy another camera or another quality lens or an audio mixer, and shoot somebody!

Rick Lang
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HDs
Last edited by rick.lang on Fri Aug 02, 2013 6:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Rick Lang
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AustinH

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 5:51 pm

I guess here's my two cents on it -

This is incredible for Blackmagic and for independent and freelance filmmakers. However, it's a little disheartening for someone that fits into the category as me.

I do freelance work, and while I was living in Australia for a few months, I had all of my gear stolen from my house during a break in. I had to start back up with nothing, save for a very long time, and deeply compare and question what I wanted to invest in next. I found out about Blackmagic during NAB just like everyone else, and was floored. I ultimately decided to use the hard earned and long saved money I had, to re-invest into this new camera. I experienced the same frustration in ordering it and it not coming. Eventually, I found it on eBay and cancelled my order so I could get a start. After buying the camera, I was basically back at $0 until I could save up again, buy a lens, save up again, buy a shoulder rig, save up again, buy a battery, and so on. It's been a very long process that could not have been avoided.

So for me, knowing I've taken a $1,000 hit before any real value degrading, really does suck. I've only had the camera since the last week of April, I ya, I do feel a little cheated. I don't think the value of something should drop that drastically before they've even comfortably shipped all of that model to customers, but it's not my company so not my decision. It was already weird enough that they announced a new model (4K, Pocketcinema) before they even comfortably began shipping their last years model. It's not really anything more than "it's not fair," but it still sucks. Apple had a similar customer relation problem when they cut the price of the original iPad so drastically and offered $100 reimbursement for first-gen buyers.

On one hand, I'm very excited for the future of filmmaking and the quality of filmmakers. On the other hand, I definitely do feel a bit cheated because I made a lot of sacrifices to replace what was taken from me, and believed in a company I knew not much about. That being said, I don't think any of this is really Blackmagic's fault, although I think they'll find they will need to do some customer relations work for a huge majority of their customers.

I don't think the price drop is a bad thing. But it seems more out of a result of impatience and poor timing to wait to do it and surprise the world at a later time.


:(
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Dmitry Kitsov

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 6:00 pm

How dare you black magic?
I have purchased resolve for $1000 (just a year after you reduced it from 29k, and 2 years after you reduced it from 200k) and ultra scope for 500, and now you include it with bmcc for 2000?
How am I supposed to do business of shooting weddings for 300 dollars twice a year and stay competitive with those who only bought bmcc without the earlier software expenses?
Do you know how much tux rentals are?
Oh the humanity
Dmitry Kitsov
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Rudy Satria

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 6:05 pm

I just received BMCC on May 2013. The price reduction announcement may sounds bad for me. I Im not the one who dropped an invesment to this camera for a rental business. its like just too fast. BUT the thing that matter for me is IM NOT REALLY FEEL SO BAD about this. Im still happy anyway :D the camera that i own today is worth that money. Tom was right, we have to deal with it as our decision to be the first adopter. If i look at the brightside there will more users and wider market for this camera which is GOOD.
Rudy Iskandar
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masterok

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 6:10 pm

And why is everyone is crying? Remember what you said? Buy a camera only based on what it can do for the price it costs? well what are you upset about? you bought a camera for the exact price it was fair to you for the functionality you are getting. dont blame anyone for this.

You have taken a hit? because you paid 3000k for a camera that changed the world of filming? Why is everyone so jelous. Are you crying when you buy a car which looses at least 15% the moment you leave a dealership? No.

What did you say when people asked for audio meters, slow motion and other stuff? Excactly that, think if the price is fair for what the camera can do. Did you think so when you bought a camera? You did and price was fair for you. So whats all the sneezing all about?

Thank you BMD, I love you.
Last edited by masterok on Fri Aug 02, 2013 6:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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DomNicFhloinn

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 6:14 pm

I took delivery of the EF version at the end of May. It was faulty, so I sent it back and had it replaced with another one, which was also faulty and, wait for it... After two months of waiting for someone to get back to me -sending dngs, sending sample shots... I still have the faulty camera!!! But, lucky me.... After asking for a refund today I've been told by the company I've bought it from I can finally have a replacement!

It took me over SIX months of cycling 16 miles every day to my 0-hour contract, £7.23 an hour job carrying my food in with me in the pissing English rain to save for this camera. I feel sick. I literally feel sick. I still don't have a working camera, I haven't been paid a penny to cover it's cost because I haven't done a single job, and I'm out of pocket nearly £600. That would be 12 weeks of putting everything I had after rent and food away. I feel absolutely sick. I get a new camera in a week and if I hadn't have accepted this broken one I'd be able to go on to CVP now and buy it for £600 less.

Seriously, I understand, it's great news. Cheaper cameras for everyone, cameras are not an investment in themselves, you're an early adopter... that's what you pay. But when I don't even have a working model in my hands-is there any room for recourse? Please, please, please, somebody from Blackmagic get in touch with me, I've had absolutely zero-luck from the supplier and their wholesaler (who I was passed on to) -until today. It would make things even a *little* more bearable if I could actually talk to someone from BM about this to see if I have any options.
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Frank Glencairn

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 6:31 pm

AustinH wrote:So for me, knowing I've taken a $1,000 hit before any real value degrading, really does suck. I've only had the camera since the last week of April, I ya, I do feel a little cheated. I don't think the value of something should drop that drastically before they've even comfortably shipped all of that model to customers, but it's not my company so not my decision.


Having all your gear stolen and start from scratch really sucks and I feel for you.

The value of the BMC is not the selling price, but what you can get out of it.
And even if BM gives the BMC away for free tomorrow, what you can get out of it has not been changed.

Those cameras are made to put them to work and make money out of them, by creating wonderful images. Not to re-sell them.
http://frankglencairn.wordpress.com/

I told you so :-)
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Rudy Satria

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 6:37 pm

The only thing that we can do now is use and take the benefits from the camera that you've already own. I can also feel them who get hit by this reality, maybe 10k is such a really big deal of money for them (including me). So im not feeling irritated to those who get upset. But there's no point to regret!
Rudy Iskandar
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Andrew Reid

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 6:46 pm

DomNicFhloinn wrote:I took delivery of the EF version at the end of May. It was faulty, so I sent it back and had it replaced with another one, which was also faulty and, wait for it... After two months of waiting for someone to get back to me -sending dngs, sending sample shots... I still have the faulty camera!!! But, lucky me.... After asking for a refund today I've been told by the company I've bought it from I can finally have a replacement!

It took me over SIX months of cycling 16 miles every day to my 0-hour contract, £7.23 an hour job carrying my food in with me in the pissing English rain to save for this camera. I feel sick. I literally feel sick. I still don't have a working camera, I haven't been paid a penny to cover it's cost because I haven't done a single job, and I'm out of pocket nearly £600. That would be 12 weeks of putting everything I had after rent and food away. I feel absolutely sick. I get a new camera in a week and if I hadn't have accepted this broken one I'd be able to go on to CVP now and buy it for £600 less.

Seriously, I understand, it's great news. Cheaper cameras for everyone, cameras are not an investment in themselves, you're an early adopter... that's what you pay. But when I don't even have a working model in my hands-is there any room for recourse? Please, please, please, somebody from Blackmagic get in touch with me, I've had absolutely zero-luck from the supplier and their wholesaler (who I was passed on to) -until today. It would make things even a *little* more bearable if I could actually talk to someone from BM about this to see if I have any options.


I feel for you. What was the fault?
British filmmaker and editor of EOSHD
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bruce

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 6:54 pm

Really give my respect to Blackmagic. All of you stop about it, should be glad instead. Imaging more better products to come at an affordable price. Did any other company doing what BM is doing? NO. I keep my 4K order in place while buying the 2.5K for now.
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nickgordon

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 7:00 pm

Got my BMCC EF 2.5k last saturday, switched my deposit over when the 4K missed July shipping.
Bought a hyperdeck as well...

5 Days later BlackMagic do this, and with no prior warning to distributors or any retailers.

Do they seriously have any idea how their customer base think of the company to date??
I really want to root for Blackmagic but this is just bad PR and communication. :x
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bhook

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 7:02 pm

A quick question: About seven months ago (or so), I emailed Christine to be placed on the email list for notification of any updates. As best I recall, I have received one email and that was about five months ago (or so). I did not receive this email notification of the BMCC price reduction. Whazup? Was it something I said?
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Richard Oakes

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 7:18 pm

So many people are annoyed that they paid £2000 for Thor camera. If its a problem why not go buy the chaper RED camera? Oh that's right!

Blackmagic are doing what they said they wanted to do all along. Make the best cameras for the cheapest prices. That's why everyone is here is it not?
Richard Oakes.
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ovcharski

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 7:27 pm

Waiting for $500 Pocket Cinema Camera :D
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sean mclennan

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 7:42 pm

mhood wrote:A quick question: About seven months ago (or so), I emailed Christine to be placed on the email list for notification of any updates. As best I recall, I have received one email and that was about five months ago (or so). I did not receive this email notification of the BMCC price reduction. Whazup? Was it something I said?


It was. You said you bought a C100 :P
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Marcel Beck

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 7:43 pm

I wonder when the next hitler angry reaction video comes out. The price reduction in my eyes was a bit of a shock but I guess there is something coming beyond the 4k camera.... I'm for one, really excited for the future of independent film makers!
Marcel Beck
Cinematographer & Producer
follow me: @mxbstudios
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bhook

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 7:45 pm

sean mclennan wrote:
mhood wrote:Whazup? Was it something I said?


It was. You said you bought a C100 :P


Guilty as charged...and was I ever livid when Canon dropped the price $1,000.00. :lol:
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Haakon Sundry

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 7:56 pm

GouthamShankar wrote:Already so many are still waiting to get there pre-ordered BMCC and surprising move here by dropping it 1000 USD.

Both the EF and MFT versions are in stock at B&H right now - you can order one with overnight shipping and have it tomorrow. If you are "still waiting" to get your camera, then you're doing it wrong.
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Samjack

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 8:00 pm

Tom wrote:
Samjack wrote:
The problem is early adopters they may be but they only just recieved the camera. If people have adopted early and recieved their cameras 6-12 months ago then the price drop perhaps it doesnt matter.


I AM an early adopter - I ordered it 2 weeks after NAB 2012. Mine arrived at the end of March.

I knew the risks because I know what it is to be an early adopter. If some people didnt know, well they do now. Lesson learned for some I guess.


It sucks but even more so for those who ordered the BMCC MFT who CVP only just started shipping. I'm well aware of early adopters paying retail for cameras at higher price than those who buys 6 months later BUT not when it has only just became available for those early adopters who stuck with the company and waited for 12 or 10 months, pay the full price and then all of a sudden it dropped by 33%. Only BMD has done that partly because of the shipping delays I'm sure.
So to Grant and BMD I have to do a John McEnroe and say "YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS" :roll:
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