Blackmagic Forum

a few days is one thing, but I don't think most companies will deal with a product bought 2 months earlier. I have 2 BMCC and would love a check for $2000 but I know that is a dream and I don't deserve it. I've had the cameras for a few months and they were paid off in a few jobs.

John, you will save yourself a lot of anguish if you refrain from buying leading-edge technology from a company committed to pushing forward as fast as they can, delivering disruptive solutions at ever more aggressive/affordable prices. It would be safe to expect Blackmagic to continue this behavior as you look ahead. This excites some of us, annoys others, and baffles the rest.

I think you would be much happier with technology from a company following a more conservative, deliberate, and predictable product development/marketing plan. You have an entire industry filled with major corporations who can be expected to deliver new and better products and pricing at a pace you would be much happier with.

I guess your right about that...They should strive to be more like these guys:

Apple giving $100 credit to early iPhone buyers
After the price of an 8 GB iPhone was reduced to $399 from $599, CEO Jobs agrees to give store credit to those who paid the original price.
September 6 2007: 6:37 PM EDT

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- After receiving hundreds of emailed complaints from existing Apple iPhone customers angry about a steep price drop, chief executive Steve Jobs says the company will give a $100 credit to certain customers who bought the gadget.

Customers who purchased an iPhone from Apple or the iPhone's sole service provider AT&T (down $0.08 to $24.02, Charts), and did not receive any rebates, will receive a $100 credit toward any purchase at an Apple retail store or on its Web site. Further details will be posted on Apple's Web site next week.
Quick Vote
Did Apple do the right thing by giving early iPhone buyers a $100 store credit?

It's just a publicity stunt
The price cut was unfair. Loyal customers deserve compensation
Early buyers were willing to pay. Apple doesn't owe them anything
The $100 credit isn't enough
Don't know

or View results

Apple recently lowered the price of its 8 gigabyte iPhone to $399 from $599.
iPhone 5.0: What's next

While Jobs defended the drastic price reduction, saying every new device has price cuts and improved models on the horizon, he apologized to customers who paid the original price for the iPhone.

"We want to do the right thing for our valued iPhone customers," Jobs wrote in an email to iPhone customers. "We apologize for disappointing some of you, and we are doing our best to live up to your high expectations of Apple."

Jobs also cited hopes for a boost in holiday sales as a reason for the price reduction.

"The good news is that if you buy products from companies that support them well, like Apple tries to do, you will receive years of useful and satisfying service from them even as newer models are introduced," Jobs wrote.

John, I for one am thankful that Blackmagic does not follow the same price skimming product pricing strategy as employed by Apple. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_skimming. Again, for customers who appreciate that approach, there are many alternative camera companies to choose from.

Expect Blackmagic to continue to be overly aggressive on pricing, even when they don't have to be.

John Oliva wrote:Blackmagic has decided that they are offering NOTHING to it's loyal customers who purchased the BMCC at the $2995 price point.

Ähem... nope, cause when you bought it, you thought it was a price/performance steal anyway, right?

Aaaaand "loyal" customer huh? how much BMCs have you bought over the last year to consider you "loyal" (and no, other BM gear doesn't count here, we all have a ton of that - in this scenario everyone would be a "loyal" customer".

On top of that - since BM is not selling directly, technically you have not bought anything from BM - your dealer is the guy who you should talk to. The same hubris, as if people think BM has got their pre order money. You deal just with your dealer.

John Oliva wrote: It has left a real sour taste with me to know that I basically paid $3000 for a camera that's only worth $2000.

Besides the fact it sales now for $2000 doesn't mean it worth less. Same camera does the same tricks, you thought it would be worth to pay $3000, right? Your $3000 camera doesn't stop working now, or does only record in MPEG1.

John Oliva wrote:e Canon, AJA, and Sony who actually care about customer loyalty and would never pull a stunt like this without doing something for the existing cutomer.

Are you kidding me? Do a reality check dude. As if Canon or Sony never lowered their prices. If you buy a Canon camera 3 weeks before a price drop, good luck with getting "your money" back.

So...

I don't get it. You bought an amazing $3000 camera that gets you as close as possible to an Alexa for a fraction of the price and you complain, that folks can buy that camera now for $1000 less?

Really?

I was annoyed when Sony bought out the EX3 soon after the EX1 which I would have preferred. Also they bought out a new model with improvements and I got really rattled till my mom said hey kid get used to it. We are a progressive society. Although it didn't make me feel better thinking about all the money I have lost over the years through things getting replaced updated an cheaper. One of the worse things is TV's You buy the latest and greatest and then what happens.. Used to be lens were a safe bet but not sure now. I also don't like it when my girlfriend has more chips than me I get really wound up. I've been for anger management but they wound me up because they told me I was wrong.

Mark de Jeu wrote:John, you will save yourself a lot of anguish if you refrain from buying leading-edge technology from a company committed to pushing forward as fast as they can

Shooting pro-res? at a max of 30fps..?
Where is the leading edge tech you speak of? Shooting at both raw and pro-res are hardly leading the edge of technology.

Or are you taliking about their CRIPPLED support of ONLY thier i/o cards, to ONLY work with resolve

leading the edge again..

yeah right

This is quickly deteriorating. No insulting one another. Please.

Terry

Terry Frechette wrote:This is quickly deteriorating. No insulting one another. Please.

Terry

What I wrote wasnt an insult.. It was an honest question. And there was no reason for you to delete it.

These things only seem to "deteriorate" when someone speaks against one of BMDs paid "spokespeople" (yes if you get gear to *test* and keep it, that is a form of payment)

In fairness Terry, I dont see you do much when it goes the other way.

We've all been through this (several times in my case) . . . It's the nature of the beast.
3 of the last 8 Panasonic's I bought were returned to the factory within 30-60 for "corrections."
In all cases (except this one, where I bought my BMCC last Friday), I paid full price . . . Got no free P2 cards, Visa cards, etc. So what? I did enjoy the use of the product which I had thoroughly researched and compared with what else was available at the time.

Honestly, I think sometimes people aren't mad that they paid more, rather that others paid less . . .
If that we're my point of view I'd be crying that these models will be going for sub-1000 down the road. My understanding is that buyers within the 30 day envelope where or are being taken care of (to the tune of $1000), and nobody does stuff like that.

My point (was supposed to be) that it's not a one size fits all world--someone's always going to be disappointed. It's the nature of the beast.

Frank Glencairn wrote: Aaaaand "loyal" customer huh? how much BMCs have you bought over the last year to consider you "loyal" (and no, other BM gear doesn't count here, we all have a ton of that - in this scenario everyone would be a "loyal" customer".

Why doesn't buying other BM gear count? I don't get that. That's like saying I'm not a loyal Apple customer because I haven't bought several iPhones only Macbooks.

I've been loyal dude... the definition of loyal is subjective. Don't feel I need to list the thousands and thousands of dollars of equipment I've bought from them over the years. A customer is a customer.

I hate to say it but if you had your camera for 2 months, they owe you nothing. Try taking your car back when they sell them off for the next model. Most companies reduce prices so you should have waited to get the newer cameras..... or wait till each NAB and see whats new and repeat the cycle. The 4k might be cheaper next July so hold off for the 6k....etc.

John Oliva wrote: Don't feel I need to list the thousands and thousands of dollars of equipment I've bought from them over the years. A customer is a customer.

Even Frank *ought* to be able to agree with that.. then again, by his account, youre not special and just some guy that bought a camera...

I get reducing prices. but by 33%? I don't think I'd sweat a couple hundred bucks but a thousand all at once is alarming. Two months might seem like a long time but its not really. I saw another post where the guy bought it 9 days before the drop. He was none too happy and wished he had gotten a heads up, credit, something.

Theodore Prentice wrote:

Mark de Jeu wrote:John, you will save yourself a lot of anguish if you refrain from buying leading-edge technology from a company committed to pushing forward as fast as they can

Shooting pro-res? at a max of 30fps..?
Where is the leading edge tech you speak of? Shooting at both raw and pro-res are hardly leading the edge of technology.

Or are you taliking about their CRIPPLED support of ONLY thier i/o cards, to ONLY work with resolve

leading the edge again..

yeah right

Maybe I should have used a less ambiguous phrase. I can see where someone could consider the application of industry-standard technologies as less leading-edge than proprietary, patented inventions.

There probably would be less argument if, instead of 'leading-edge technology', I had said 'technology that no other company seems to be able or willing to deliver within a reasonably close price range'.

Mark de Jeu wrote:
There probably would be less argument if, instead of 'leading-edge technology', I had said 'technology that no other company seems to be able or willing to deliver within a reasonably close price range'.

Not an argument
And I agree 100% with that last statement

Mark de Jeu wrote:Maybe I should have used a less ambiguous phrase. I can see where someone could consider the application of industry-standard technologies as less leading-edge than proprietary, patented inventions.

There probably would be less argument if, instead of 'leading-edge technology', I had said 'technology that no other company seems to be able or willing to deliver within a reasonably close price range'.

The BMCC shoots at 2.5K RAW, something that not even the $14000 C300 can manage and is more in the territory of RED and Arri. How is this not "leading edge?"

And that's without getting into a discussion of the fact that it offers such a thing for less than the price of most pro-sumer camcorders.

Canon cares about it's customers? What a joke. ML had to enable raw video for them.

Frank Glencairn wrote:On top of that - since BM is not selling directly, technically you have not bought anything from BM - your dealer is the guy who you should talk to. The same hubris, as if people think BM has got their pre order money. You deal just with your dealer.

My dealer paid Blackmagic $2700 for the camera. Their profit was $295. Why would they go out of pocket? My beef is not with the dealer. BM would have to refund the dealer for them to pass it on to me.

John Oliva wrote:I get reducing prices. but by 33%? I don't think I'd sweat a couple hundred bucks but a thousand all at once is alarming. Two months might seem like a long time but its not really. I saw another post where the guy bought it 9 days before the drop. He was none too happy and wished he had gotten a heads up, credit, something.

So when does it stop? No matter when the price drop happens, someone will be mad about it.

We live in a world of ever changing technology and ever dropping prices as new items come out. Televisions, phones, computers, etc

Get over it and move on.

John Oliva wrote:I guess your right about that...They should strive to be more like these guys:

Apple giving $100 credit to early iPhone buyers
After the price of an 8 GB iPhone was reduced to $399 from $599, CEO Jobs agrees to give store credit to those who paid the original price.

So what you are saying is, they made money on you twice. HAHAHA

I recall on Terrence and Phillip show they predicted exactly this situation a couple of years ago. They said, will the black magic be able to handle the non-professional customers?, and that the usual adage is that less money the product costs the more entitled the consumer is.
I remember when Resolve Lite version was released a number of complaints on forums went through the roof. From people who downloaded lite version on the systems that are not able to handle it (how come resolve won't run on my 2001 tossing notebook with window 98 on it? What a piece of chocolate!!!)
So it is here, people spending money they do not have to buy an amazing camera they do not really need, because they think that all is needed to become an amazing film maker is a camera, then complaining that the price went down.
Honestly, I am thinking that certain prices that are set by certain equipment manufacturers are high for a reason that they want to avoid a brown storm similar to what we are witnessing here.
Professionals are used paying for service, and take pricing fluctuation as the cost of doing business.
Then I will hear an argument: "but I am a student"
Well, most students are supplied with equipment by their school. Or have something with the low cost of ownership and operation.
Making amazing products affordable or free because their function is condensed to an essential and most important one, or the price of development is subsidized by other parts of the buiseness (like resolve) seems to do two things:
makes people complain about the lack of features found in the more expensive or less expensive products (even my $200 canon point and shoot has a histogram)
Demanding one button solutions, or magical solutions (I have 13 stops, I don't need to light, or why does resolve not have three way color picker)

If BMD's product development schedule was more predictable (and I assume it will get there), I think the price cut would have caused much less consternation.

Once there is a rhythm, customers start to anticipate new product announcements and price cuts to existing models in somewhat predictable time-frames.

I still think that BMD stalled their camera revenue in a serious way and needed to keep the original BMCC selling by positioning it better in the product lineup. If they were a public company (I think they are private), I believe the board would be wondering why management was screwing up the revenue and profit lines with premature announcements that killed sales of existing models. Just speculation on my part.

On the other hand, there is something to be said by continuing to push the envelope with leading edge announcements and possibly this is a good long-term strategy.

Do we really need yet another post crying about a technology company reducing their prices?? For the love of God get over it!!!

It's obvious that very few of the mean spirited responses from this post were from actual customers that had this experience. It's easy to say "get over it" when its not you. Most of the responses are from tech writers who are affiliated somehow with Blackmagic. Some get free product sent to them for "review". I counted one that actually had the same experience as me and he's busy working trying to pay off the cameras he overpaid for not sitting around writing blogs. If any Blackmagic decision makers are reading this and think it's a representation of their customer base they would be fooling themselves.

For those of you trying to muddy the waters with mumbo jumbo it's very simple...There is a right and wrong here and no in between.

Steve Jobs did the right thing when he issued credit to customers when he slashed the price of iPhones. The customer is always right. If they wanted to lower their prices so they can sell more cameras they should have done it in increments as to not piss off their current base. Not 33% in one day. The fact that they didn't do it that way tells me there's trouble in paradise.

John Oliva wrote:Most of the responses are from tech writers who are affiliated somehow with Blackmagic...

John, no one on this thread matches that description. No need to mischaracterize people who do not share your sentiment.

While I just received my long awaited BMCC MFT in July, at full price, I am thrilled the price dropped $1000 so that even more people can experience this amazing tool. I got an incredible deal - $3000 for a camera (and software) that has no peer at several times that price. I heartily welcome Blackmagic's pricing strategy, and hope they keep on that path.

My BMCC is not a financial investment that I need to flip or recover, and others getting a better deal than me doesn't frost my shorts. Some of us are trying to encourage you to consider a different perspective and to enjoy the opportunities all of this is opening up...

John Oliva wrote:Blackmagic has decided that they are offering NOTHING to it's loyal customers who purchased the BMCC at the $2995 price point. I have only had mine for less tha two months and they reduce the price 33% for new cutomers ONLY. The new price is $1995 or $1000 less than a good customer might have paid for it as little as three weeks ago. It has left a real sour taste with me to know that I basically paid $3000 for a camera that's only worth $2000. As an owner of a production company that buys quite a bit of equipment I will work around purchasing Blackmagic products in the future. It won't be that hard to work around them because there are good companies like Canon, AJA, and Sony who actually care about customer loyalty and would never pull a stunt like this without doing something for the existing cutomer. UNBELIEVABLE... I though Blackmagic was a good company... guess I was wrong.

Have you never been an early adopter prior to this?

No comment from the site owners or representitives??

What about looking at it from a legal perspective or perhaps getting your money back and rebuy the $1000 cheaper version? (especially to those who bought it in recent weeks)?

John Oliva wrote:.

Steve Jobs did the right thing when he issued credit to customers when he slashed the price of iPhones. The customer is always right. If they wanted to lower their prices so they can sell more cameras they should have done it in increments as to not piss off their current base. Not 33% in one day. The fact that they didn't do it that way tells me there's trouble in paradise.

I think you have it right for you. Sell your camera and don't support Blackmagic. If I felt betrayed by a company I'd write them off. I've done it before and never looked back. I have a feeling posting on a forum about it won't help your situation, so get shooting. The are a tonne of other great cameras out there for you.

John Oliva wrote:I guess your right about that...They should strive to be more like these guys:

Apple giving $100 credit to early iPhone buyers
After the price of an 8 GB iPhone was reduced to $399 from $599, CEO Jobs agrees to give store credit to those who paid the original price.

In 2007 apple made 21.7 BILLION dollars. Black magic is not a public company. It is unfair to compare.

Blackmagic is giving you what no other company would. So I am so excited they are creating products at these prices, without withholding.

At 3 grand this camera is worth every penny. I get you are mad, and you have every right to be, but we live in free market economies. This is how it works with tech and in every other industry.

Also, if we are talking Apple, I purchased a MacBook Pro, top of the line, and then they released the retina version 15 days later. They did not give me the cash back cause it is a 14 day return policy. You agree to these terms when you make a purchase and these terms are on the back of every receipt and printed at every retail shop.

Also, I have never been payed by anybody to use their products, and do not get free gear. But at any price the BM gear is nothing considering the leaps in tech for the price, regardless if you payed 3k or 2k. At the end of the day this is a first world problem for those who are fortunate enough to afford cutting edge technology.

Sony charged $4000 for the s-log firmware update of the F3 camera. Less than a year later is free to all.
Just look at Canon and so many hidden treasures are hidden via the official firmware.

I got a refund on my dealer. But thats a week before the announcement

2months is too long. You couldve earned that 1000 in a month.

Mark de Jeu wrote:John, you will save yourself a lot of anguish if you refrain from buying leading-edge technology from a company committed to pushing forward as fast as they can, delivering disruptive solutions at ever more aggressive/affordable prices. It would be safe to expect Blackmagic to continue this behavior as you look ahead. This excites some of us, annoys others, and baffles the rest.

I think you would be much happier with technology from a company following a more conservative, deliberate, and predictable product development/marketing plan. You have an entire industry filled with major corporations who can be expected to deliver new and better products and pricing at a pace you would be much happier with.

BMCC is not leading edge technology, just the price point "appears" cheaper than rival offering. If something is cheap there is always a reason.

Theodore Prentice wrote:

Terry Frechette wrote:This is quickly deteriorating. No insulting one another. Please.

Terry

What I wrote wasnt an insult.. It was an honest question. And there was no reason for you to delete it.

These things only seem to "deteriorate" when someone speaks against one of BMDs paid "spokespeople" (yes if you get gear to *test* and keep it, that is a form of payment)

In fairness Terry, I dont see you do much when it goes the other way.

+1

Theodore Prentice wrote:

John Oliva wrote: Don't feel I need to list the thousands and thousands of dollars of equipment I've bought from them over the years. A customer is a customer.

Even Frank *ought* to be able to agree with that.. then again, by his account, youre not special and just some guy that bought a camera...

He is not special, then who is? Frank

For those of you espousing the amazing quality at that price point....you must not own the camera but bought into the marketing. It's basically one small step above a Go Pro in a metal case. Aside from the large sensors the camera is very limited. The new price is about what its worth. I knew basically what I was getting when I bought it and I'm not dissatisfied with the camera. I just think so far they have taken the wrong approach with the huge price slash and the their customers who so recently paid 33% more. Bad customer service is the bottom line.

John Oliva wrote:For those of you espousing the amazing quality at that price point....you must not own the camera but bought into the marketing. It's basically one small step above a Go Pro in a metal case. Aside from the large sensors the camera is very limited. The new price is about what its worth. I knew basically what I was getting when I bought it and I'm not dissatisfied with the camera. I just think so far they have taken the wrong approach with the huge price slash and the their customers who so recently paid 33% more. Bad customer service is the bottom line.

Wow, just above a GoPro?

It has all the features of most of the film cameras I've used and records an image very close to the Alexa. Its a Cinema camera, not an ENG camera or a handicam. What else did you want but a great image, high iso (yes 800 is high) audio for sync, shutter speeds, raw, 2 great lens mount choices, Resolve.

If its just above the Gopro why waste your money and why all the complaining. Sell it for $1500 and get as far away from it as you can.

John Oliva wrote:For those of you espousing the amazing quality at that price point....you must not own the camera but bought into the marketing. It's basically one small step above a Go Pro in a metal case.

What a very strange comment, I don't think you'll find anyone who agrees with it

I guess we can all smile at getting sucked into viewing and replying to this thread. I thought the claims and attacks were a bit exaggerated and out of touch...

John Oliva wrote:For those of you espousing the amazing quality at that price point....you must not own the camera but bought into the marketing. It's basically one small step above a Go Pro in a metal case.

Yep, I don't want to rip on you, because that is not what these are for, but I think your anger is blurring your vision.

John Oliva wrote:Blackmagic has decided that they are offering NOTHING to it's loyal customers who purchased the BMCC at the $2995 price point. I have only had mine for less tha two months and they reduce the price 33% for new cutomers ONLY. The new price is $1995 or $1000 less than a good customer might have paid for it as little as three weeks ago. It has left a real sour taste with me to know that I basically paid $3000 for a camera that's only worth $2000. As an owner of a production company that buys quite a bit of equipment I will work around purchasing Blackmagic products in the future. It won't be that hard to work around them because there are good companies like Canon, AJA, and Sony who actually care about customer loyalty and would never pull a stunt like this without doing something for the existing cutomer. UNBELIEVABLE... I though Blackmagic was a good company... guess I was wrong.

If the $2995 price point was too much, why did you buy it in the first place? I bought a $500 SSD from intel many years ago that is now worth nothing. Should I go out and scream that intel hates their customers because that old SSD is worthless?

And if you think Sony loves their customers, you are sorely mistaken. Did you know Sony installed a rootkit on their customers machines?

John Oliva wrote:For those of you espousing the amazing quality at that price point....you must not own the camera but bought into the marketing. It's basically one small step above a Go Pro in a metal case.

I was a bit over reacting as well when I heard about the price reduction and stated that BM lost a customer in me, but reading all that whining and hatred in these threads and now that funny comment, I must admit BM just got back a customer in me.

I'm not selling my camera. I like the camera and what it brings to the table. It's not worth more than they are selling it for now though. Didn't anticipate being depicted a villain for wanting to be treated right. Seems like most of you are scared to ask Blackmagic to do the right thing. As I'm sure the rest of you are..I've grown weary of this so I'm done. I guess Blackmagic got what it wants all it's customers to do. Give up.

John Oliva wrote:I'm not selling my camera. I like the camera and what it brings to the table...

John, good to hear and looking forward to your continuing success with the camera.

Rick Lang
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

This is an amazing issue! I am now 3 weeks into a purchase that has been knocked down by 1000 dollars ... there is no amount of frustration that can explain how those who bought into the camera weeks ago not even a month old are being given no help on this absolute flustercluck move!

Blackmagics consequential silence to its customers is a marketing strategy that is bound to backfire

Maybe its time for us to start a new sign up list complaining collectively to blackmagic (not that they will take note, more probably they will shut down the thread)

I've buy blackmagic cinema camera for 2610 euros, two week later price is 1600 euros???!!!!!
this not good!!
i've take 1000 euros and thrown in bathroom

there is a kind of redemption or relief?

Thanks

Messy but relevant post still going strong

Retconaddict wrote:

Tamerlin wrote:

Theodore Prentice wrote:Should have kept the price the same, use the profit to pay more techs to work on firmware fixes and updates.

It's a common misconception that adding developers to a development team will speed the release of a piece of software.

In other news, you can't reduce the time it takes to carry a baby to term by adding women.

That doesn't make any sense at all.

Thank you. Of all of the senseless things i read on this forum, that absolutely took the cake.