Blackmagic Forum

With new price drops

Now Pocket Cam is $995 and BMCC EF is $1,995

I've actually decided to buy 4k but again I decided to wait on because its taking a lot of time and decided to buy pocket cam.

But now with effect of new price drops I'm puzzled in between Pocket Camera and BMCC EF.

PS: I do not own any lens, So I'm open to all options.

Luctantem wrote:With new price drops

Now Pocket Cam is $995 and BMCC EF is $1,995

I've actually decided to buy 4k but again I decided to wait on because its taking a lot of time and decided to buy pocket cam.

But now with effect of new price drops I'm puzzled in between Pocket Camera and BMCC EF.

PS: I do not own any lens, So I'm open to all options.

Do you need something small?
Do you need 2.5k?
Do you have the funds to purchase multiple SSDs?
Is battery life a concern?

Personally I think BMCC EF is only choice if you primary shoot with longer lenses, don't need wide end that much.

If you go with BMPCC then you can get it when the Metabones speedbooster is out, also get the metabones normal EF to MFT adapter. You add Tokina 11-16 2.8 and Sigma 18-35 1.8. With these two lenses and changing the adapter when needed you have quite a range of focal lengths. If you just play around it this will be enough. If you need sound then things get bit more complicated. These lenses can also be used later with any APS-C sized Canon camera and other S35 cinema cameras given that you have proper adapter. Aperture control may vary depending on your solution.

If you go with BMCC MFT then you have bit more pixels to work with. There's no electronics in BMCC MFT so you need to go with manual lenses. Nikon lenses have aperture ring but they focus wrong way. Old Zeiss C/Y and Leica R lenses are manual and focus correct way. All these have adapters available from metabones with and without speedbooster. All these lenses also work on all S35 sensor sized cameras.. including BMPC 4K. Not sure if Nikon has lenses for APS-C size only but probably most of their lenses are full 35mm sensor so they, Zeiss and Leica all will cover cameras even bit bigger sensor like 5D (but for some lenses this may require modifications for them to clear the mirror).

No matter which MFT cam you go, I wouldn't get MFT lenses since the selection is not very good and they will only work on MFT cameras. You will also get the wide angle covered lot easier if you use other lenses with speedbooster. It's better to invest in good lenses more than good camera as cameras age really quickly. If Blackmagic sorts out their problems and 4K camera comes out good, I may trade my old camera and get 4K myself but I'm also considering BMCC MFT if they fix the firmware and add compressed RAW. 4K costs 4000 but I can tell you I have three times that invested in lenses and I can guarantee you the lenses will last many generations of future cameras.

Luctantem wrote:I've actually decided to buy 4k but again I decided to wait on because its taking a lot of time and decided to buy pocket cam. But now with effect of new price drops I'm puzzled in between Pocket Camera and BMCC EF.

This summarizes the brilliance behind BMs new pricing: now each of the three cameras creates equal interest (due to different features), so BM will continue to sell the 2k5 modell even after the 4k version finally ships.

Jace Ross wrote:
Do you need something small?
Do you need 2.5k?
Do you have the funds to purchase multiple SSDs?
Is battery life a concern?

Well , I need for a feature film shoot that can be well projected on big screen theatrical release.

My question is will there be the same crop factor between the 2.5k at 1080 and the pocket? Also, will one be better in low light?

I'm looking for this for docs, so the 2.5 k is quite alluring as it is more complete. But I do need to mind the crop, as I am shooting docs where I need the wide end.

Both cameras have the same (type of) sensor, so both have the same lowlight qualities. But if you compare at 1080 the CC 2k5 will show less noise than the Pocket CC, because the downscaling from 2k5 to 1080 reduces the noise a little.

eyeiaye wrote:My question is will there be the same crop factor between the 2.5k at 1080 and the pocket?

I'm not quite sure i understand your question... but in any case: the Pocket CC has a crop factor of almost 3 (2.88) with respect to full frame cameras; the 2k5 CCs crop factor is 2.4, no matter if you stay at 2.5k or downscale to 1080. You COULD however cut a 1080 window from the 2.5k image, and that would have the exact same crop factor of 2.88 as the pocket cc (because that's exactly what the pocket does: it uses only a part of the 2.5k sensor in its belly!). But i don't see why anyone would want to do that...

the 2.5 k is quite alluring as it is more complete. But I do need to mind the crop, as I am shooting docs where I need the wide end.

Can you tell me what makes the CC more complete than the Pocket? And minding the crop: the CC has less crop, so the same lens will record wider images.

Luctantem wrote:

Jace Ross wrote:
Do you need something small?
Do you need 2.5k?
Do you have the funds to purchase multiple SSDs?
Is battery life a concern?

Well , I need for a feature film shoot that can be well projected on big screen theatrical release.

If you can wait several months, and you can light your scenes adequately and have access to high volume storage, go with the BMPC4K, shoot raw, edit in 4K where there are effects otherwise use any size you prefer such as 2K or HD, grade in 4K, and create your deliverables in downscaled 2K.

If you can wait a couple of months, take a gamble on the BMPCC MFT but buy EF and EF-S lenses plus the future Metabones Speed Booster. That will give you a stop faster lens on a sensor that may be a stop faster as well with greater dynamic range (another stop) and a angle of view slightly wider than the BMCC! You can still produce a HD deliverable but still do raw etc as above if you can.

If you can't wait, grab the BMCC EF to use the same lenses as you will with the BMPC4K you will eventually want. All other recommendations as above.

In terms of feature film use, you may see some difference if you mix it's footage with the other cameras in terms of sharpness, but depending on the scene, lighting, desired look, you may not. Of course the image quality between the BMCC and the BMPCC will be nearly identical.

Edit: corrected previous ludicrous advice to put EF lenses on BMCC MFT with Speedbooster as my brain was on vacation--hey it's Sunday.

Rick Lang
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Thanks Rick. I'm glad the 1080p is a downscale and not a crop or zoom. I think I will get the regular bmc ef and put on the new sigma 1.8 zoom

rick.lang wrote:If you can wait a couple of months, take a gamble on the BMCC MFT but buy EF and EF-S lenses plus the future Metabones Speed Booster. That will give you a stop faster lens on a sensor that may be a stop faster as well with greater dynamic range (another stop) and a angle of view slightly wider than the BMPC4K!

...and he wouldn't be able to control the aperture with the EF and EF-S lenses.. no electronic contacts on BMCC MFT no matter the adapter had them. There are other adapters though that allow aperture control but they don't have speedbooster. If he needs lenses that can go to most of the systems, not limited by electronics, then EF lenses are the worst choice. Read my previous post.

sebasti wrote:

rick.lang wrote:If you can wait a couple of months, take a gamble on the BMCC MFT but buy EF and EF-S lenses plus the future Metabones Speed Booster. That will give you a stop faster lens on a sensor that may be a stop faster as well with greater dynamic range (another stop) and a angle of view slightly wider than the BMPC4K!

...and he wouldn't be able to control the aperture with the EF and EF-S lenses.. no electronic contacts on BMCC MFT no matter the adapter had them. There are other adapters though that allow aperture control but they don't have speedbooster. If he needs lenses that can go to most of the systems, not limited by electronics, then EF lenses are the worst choice. Read my previous post.

Sebasti, I don't know what I was smoking when I wrote that! I must have been drinking! Wait, a minute, I don't smoke or drink--no fun at all. I'll correct my post. thanks.

Rick Lang
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:52 am
One can't help thinking that the BMCC is being discontinude, maybe because of the sensor.
If this is so, all of you wondering which camera to get, get one now while you can, the sensor is sublime!

The 4k and pocket are, as yet, unproven, in fact even Grant said in an interview that neither of the new CAMs are as cinematic and sharp as the CINEMA cam.

John Bartman wrote:One can't help thinking that the BMCC is being discontinude, maybe because of the sensor.

I can't help thinking that the new price will help to continue the camera!

At $3k most potential buyers will just skip upwards to the Production Camera at $4k; yet at $2k you could get two CCs for the price of one PC. And the new price might also attract buyers from the Pocket CC waiting list... All in all i believe the new prices reflect the unique features of the three cameras better than before, so all three have their respective niche in the market, and thus have a good chance of surviving the next NAB

Interessting points.

Lets see what the new cameras are like. I hope they are as good as the cc
If not, ....

John Bartman wrote:Lets see what the new cameras are like. I hope they are as good as the cc
If not, ....

... we can always buy the $2k camera again and again...

so can we choose bmcc over pocket as we are getting lot more with just 1000$ up and we are at a stage of complete cam for a 2k theatrical projection , and a better battery and better storage.

or go for just pocket cam and upscale to 2k ?

Luctantem wrote:so can we choose bmcc over pocket as we are getting lot more with just 1000$ up and we are at a stage of complete cam for a 2k theatrical projection , and a better battery and better storage.

or go for just pocket cam and upscale to 2k ?

Or, you can do what I did . . . buy both!

I figured that when I ordered my EF mount on Friday (arrived Monday) that the $1000 savings pretty much had me covered on the "pocket" (pun intended), when it arrives. For my purposes they're different tools and I expect to use both. I really like having the full version of Resolve (with free upgrade to Resolve 10 to follow when it's released) to use with both cams.

Looking forward to when the pocket camera begin to ship in volume in the coming weeks . . .

dregenthal wrote:
Or, you can do what I did . . . buy both!

I figured that when I ordered my EF mount on Friday (arrived Monday) that the $1000 savings pretty much had me covered on the "pocket"

I think the extra $1000 can be spent on better lens build if we decide on one cam....and I think its better spend on lens rather thn just buy both.

hence the qsn is answered...

So Shall I buy BMCC MFT 2.5K or go for pocket cam and upscale to 2k for theatrical projection ?

You might rent the camera(s) and shoot some tests, including test projections on large-ish screens.

Yes this will cost some money up front, but may save you a lot of money in the long run -- and will be quite instructive -- because you'll know what really suits your purposes before you begin actual production.

-

Peter J. DeCrescenzo wrote:You might rent the camera(s) and shoot some tests, including test projections on large-ish screens.

Yes this will cost some money up front, but may save you a lot of money in the long run -- and will be quite instructive -- because you'll know what really suits your purposes before you begin actual production.

-

Very good idea, but unfortunately renting is not possible in my country atleast at this point of time and I want to order any one, It will be a long wait again if I wait on renting...

I was holding out for the 4K, but opted for the MFT 2.5 instead. Did my first tests this weekend and I really can't wait to do some more. Another thing, the $1995 price got me ALMOST completely outfitted for $4700.

BMCC MFT
Tilta rig
Switronix 70 powerbase/charger
Sandisk 480G
Sandisk 240G
2 Year drops and spill warranty from Beards&Hats

Now imagine the 4k for $4k add $200 for higher warranty price and you're looking at about $7k just to get started. I think it will be a great cam, but I was antsy and loving what I was seeing out of the 2.5K, so I went cheaper and NOW have a proven beast.

rockroadpix wrote:I was holding out for the 4K, but opted for the MFT 2.5 instead. Did my first tests this weekend and I really can't wait to do some more. Another thing, the $1995 price got me ALMOST completely outfitted for $4700.

Impressive...and did you had any thought process to choose in between MFT 2.5 k and EF 2.5K ? and why did you choose mft

Luctantem wrote:

rockroadpix wrote:I was holding out for the 4K, but opted for the MFT 2.5 instead. Did my first tests this weekend and I really can't wait to do some more. Another thing, the $1995 price got me ALMOST completely outfitted for $4700.

Impressive...and did you had any thought process to choose in between MFT 2.5 k and EF 2.5K ? and why did you choose mft

I came from the Hacked GH2. I guess I should say that I have (2) GH2s. Haven't bailed on them.

I prefer most glass that is manual, as my background is 35mm film. I prefer nikon to canon, (despite the wonky backwards focus) because until recently, you could still get aperture control on the barrel. I'm not claiming superiority in the fanboy debate, but I also love the fact that I can use my PL adapter and my Voigtlander. In other words, it was a no brainer due to all the MFT adapters that I had lying around!

Am I being really stupid here (probably am) But on the BMCC MFT none active mount how do I adjust the aperture when none of the MFT lenses I have (and I have lots) have an aperture ring on them.