What new BM cameras await us next month or so?

Due to coronavirus everything what was going to be announced next month will be moved to July or August or later. NAB wouldn't be the first event what has been canceled because of the virus

As of right now, the NAB web site says that NAB is still on: https://nabshow.com/2020/attend/onsite- ... resources/

Is that wrong?

I guess it's not wrong. But..stay informed and..be prepared

We may be only two or three weeks away from another email from Grant Petty describing some of products that will launched or be updated at NAB 2020. The last year has been quite busy for BMD and few people would be upset if there were more updates and fine-tuning than new tools.

But BMD is aware of the competition they’re facing as higher-end manufacturers launch new products at lower costs than they’ve offered previously. and there’s new products from new manufacturers that are nipping at the heels of BMD to steal the lower end (not to mention mobile phones that do ever more each year with a larger reliance on software to make an impressive image. So I do doubt that BMD will stand pat at the convention that provides them with so much access to the minds of amateurs and enthusiasts and indie filmmakers and professionals in various fields.

A few years ago people would ask what camera I was using? Answering that just drew a blank expression. In this last year that’s not happening. People have heard of Blackmagic even if they don’t know much but they know the brand now. And some have said, “Is that a Blackmagic camera?” Maybe one day, that ubiquitous declaration “we can shoot with a RED” and “we can do that on a RED” will be replaced by “we shoot Blackmagic.”

Hi Rick,

With one caveat, I agree that Blackmagic can’t afford to announce nothing this spring.

The caveat is, does Blackmagic see itself as a camera manufacturer, or are its cameras ancillary to its other business lines? I think that there is a lack of clarity about this and that it affects Blackmagic’s ability to get beyond being cheaper.

The second question arises from your post. If Blackmagic wants to be a camera manufacturer, in what part of the market does it intend to compete? Your post suggests RED, which is pretty niche. That’s fine, but it seems very far from where Blackmagic is right now, and suggests that it does not intend to compete with mainstream manufacturers.

You started this discussion by asking an earlier poster why he would use ProRes raw when he can use Blackmagic raw and now you have made it clear (it was already pretty clear) that this is about being a Blackmagic fan boy.

So here’s my own answer. The minute that Atomos announces support for ProRes raw on Leica’s new SL2, my current intention is to dump my Pocket 4K unless implementation of ProRes raw in the Pocket 4K is imminent. I’m not holding my breath. Also, presumably like the person of whom you asked the question, and who declined to respond to you, I can’t think of a reason why you should be questioning my decision or my reasons or why it is your business.

You might consider the possibility that turning discussions on this forum in a film version of Android partisans bashing Apple is unhelpful.

The pocket 4K never supported ProRes RAW, it was released after ProRes RAW was announced as the greatest invention since sliced bread, you bought the wrong camera not because of the possibilities but it doesn't support a competing codec from a competing company. As far as I know no current camera supports internal ProRes RAW recording all other RAW formats support atleast 1 camera with internal RAW recording. With ProRes RAW you always need an external recorder from Grant Petty's biggest friend Jeromy Young.

And yes I am a fan of some sensors (ALEV(on-semi)) and codecs (Cineform (RAW)), not because a the brand but the qualities.

Do you know what I’d really love to see? A Blackmagic Design Cinema Drone. Shooting 4K, 4.6K, or 6K BlackmagicRAW with 15-Stops of DR would be ideal. The most import element is the dynamic range and BRAW. After that it’s a drone that can compete against the other guys but by providing the superior dynamic range, color science, and raw recording capabilities that we’ve come to love from Blackmagic Design Cameras.

A recent commercial shoot that had a DJI drone on it made me realize how much I hated the image coming out of it compared to the footage from the UMPG2 and Pocket 4K, which were used for the main aspects. I’ll share the commercial when it’s finished. I’m waiting on the edit file so I can grade. That drone footage is the thing that makes me sigh when I see the rough cut. So I’d love a better image from these type of drones. Blackmagic could kill it if they manage to create something.

Just a thought. Otherwise the G2 will remain the top main camera for another year or so. They’ve had very few firmware updates to it since it came out a year ago. So I’d say that it will remain the flagship for a while longer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Do you know what I’d really love to see? A Blackmagic Design Cinema Drone.

The Micro was designed to work on drones, and there's even some drone footage in the gallery: https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/produc ... ra/gallery

I think an updated drone-mountable Micro would be more widely useful than a dedicated drone, but you never know. To me, the Micro's form factor is just about perfect (except those crazy buttons): you can fit the camera in the palm of your hand and use it that way with a small monitor attached, or you can build it out with rails, matte box, follow focus etc., or anything in between.

Do you know what I’d really love to see? A Blackmagic Design Cinema Drone.

The Micro was designed to work on drones, and there's even some drone footage in the gallery: https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/produc ... ra/gallery

I think an updated drone-mountable Micro would be more widely useful than a dedicated drone, but you never know. To me, the Micro's form factor is just about perfect (except those crazy buttons): you can fit the camera in the palm of your hand and use it that way with a small monitor attached, or you can build it out with rails, matte box, follow focus etc., or anything in between.

So an updated Micro that has the Pocket 4K sensor would probably be optimum. I’d definitely prefer more DR in the way the 4.6K gets more, but nonetheless the Pocket 4K sensor is good enough. Then add Bluetooth for camera control. Obviously if they Video Assists also could control the camera that would be ideal.

So I’m definitely fine with getting a Micro 4K and building it into a drone.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Do you know what I’d really love to see? A Blackmagic Design Cinema Drone. Shooting 4K, 4.6K, or 6K BlackmagicRAW with 15-Stops of DR would be ideal. The most import element is the dynamic range and BRAW. After that it’s a drone that can compete against the other guys but by providing the superior dynamic range, color science, and raw recording capabilities that we’ve come to love from Blackmagic Design Cameras.

A recent commercial shoot that had a DJI drone on it made me realize how much I hated the image coming out of it compared to the footage from the UMPG2 and Pocket 4K, which were used for the main aspects. I’ll share the commercial when it’s finished. I’m waiting on the edit file so I can grade. That drone footage is the thing that makes me sigh when I see the rough cut. So I’d love a better image from these type of drones. Blackmagic could kill it if they manage to create something.

Just a thought. Otherwise the G2 will remain the top main camera for another year or so. They’ve had very few firmware updates to it since it came out a year ago. So I’d say that it will remain the flagship for a while longer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A drone would be cool... I just got a Mavic 2 Pro (2nd hand at a great price), but something that shot BRAW would be ideal. Matching the footage isn't fun. DLOG is good, but definitely no BRAW. ND/PL filters help and I love what I get for the price, but raw footage would awesome!

I'm sure licensing BRAW would be an easier solution, but then DJI or whatever drone company would control the price of the drone. I believe the drone world is what it is because of people like us. The Inspire 2 is amazing, but will cost you about 7-8k to shoot raw. Adding raw to a "lower level" drone will definitely affect Inspire sales. I'm not sure BM should start making drones, but it's an interesting idea.

I'm not sure BM should start making drones, but it's an interesting idea.

I doubt that Blackmagic has the expertise necessary, especially to compete with established players (look what happened to GoPro), but it could conceivably make one in partnership with DJI or Freefly.

If BM skipped announcing a new camera this year in order to come out with a really spectacular camera priced to fly off the shelves with features like CAF, Wi-Fi and wired network connections for fully functional remote monitoring and control, their originally announced (on the original mini) full three dimensional accelerometers, GPS, ya know, things that you will find on any 500$ cell phone, that would be great.

I'm sure they could do that in 6 months and not skip a season. They could have implemented that already.

The real issue is that they use FPGA chips, and if it isn't supported on chip then they have to add it off chip. While they could use mobile phone chips, or NVIDIA arm chipset (one of the best, with general purpose programmable GPU) they are more expensive. Other issue is that the shelf life of the mobile chips might be an issue, and you buy in big numbers to get the cheaper price. However. I've advocated that they use a lower end mobile chipset for many functions and leave the FPGA Handel sensor ingress and recording. They then just change their code interfacing for each new mobile chipset. The FPGA then also requires less features too. So, everything might not be much more expensive to build (dollars to tens of dollars).

What happened to go pro. Is lack. They cineform raw but let Red dominate the market rather than do it themselves. They look at incrementing their designs and putting out an interesting drone, when they could have looked at what the competition could do and do it before them, and better stuff. Now, where are they. The competition continues to innovate, and GoPro follows.

Now, onto cameras. You innovate better product before the competition in your market segment. In the digital camera business, there is not much innovation, though that could be changing at the moment, making them susceptible to competion. In BM's market, there is not much competition, but there soon could be.

A drone that is built to accomodate a micro cinema camera, with the flying ease, intelligent modes and obstacle avoidance of a dji phantom or mavic pro is the only thing that would sell. I think that's a tall order. Not to mention that it would essentially be coupled to the micro cinema camera. You might as well get a Matrice 200 v2 with a Zenmuse X7 or the 3rd Party option, but those drones are $6k+
https://www.dji.com/matrice-200-series-v2/payloads

It's almost as if people stopped making the higher payload drones for DSLRs because the DJI cameras got so good... They're hard to find now.

There is no integrated camera that compares to the Zenmuse line. You have to jump to a cinema camera to even come close.

I'm sure they could do that in 6 months and not skip a season. They could have implemented that already.

Not so sure about that. The original UM was supposed to have most of that stuff and IIRC, it held up development for almost a year while they tried to get it to work and it still didn't ship with wi-fi, gps or the accelerometers. And that was several years and two camera versions ago. I would think that if BM could have done it, they would have done it. BM appears to be a company that is better at buying companies with expertise and integrating that into their company and product line, than developing the capability internally from scratch. They may need to buy a cell phone company in order to acquire the capability to create a camera with those features.

I only said they could do it. Trying to implement these types of realtime dynamic high demand things meaningfully and low energy in FPGA is likely a big issue. Trying to implement these things yourself at all is an issue. Best to use a component, which is like
buying in another company's expertise. These chip sets often have reference board designs that go around it. So you use that design conjoined with your current design. I don't think that's the problem. Actually, you could use an ambarella chipset to deliver high end h264/h265, maybe even Braw and Bayer recording, and most of these other things. Those people deal with a lot of small manufacturers through there Asian division, and join that to your FPGA design, if you need the FPGA at all. They could design whatever you need into a custom chip. A lot of cameras use ambarella designs, I would think BM is in the numbers ball park to do that. If you look at their profits, they are not making huge markups. So they are a cost effective option.

But, in the future, two big pro technologies are multipoint camera arrays (cheap and compact emulation of pro formats and lenses up to IMAX 10 perf or bigger) and 5G/6G for live streaming to base through the network, or a mini cell. The problem with wifi versions,care they are designed for a limited number of devices to share the local air space, but 5G is advancing methods to share the airspace in crowded spaces, though dedicate infrastructure services channels in minicells I think still are good. But I don't know if the industry has caught up to this yet. They can go for what's in front of them, than long term. In this, you can have POV, action, handheld, work and ENG cameras you can run around with compact, cheap. That's real workability. You ask for little, you might not get it. If you ask for what you really needed, maybe you can get a little.

I only said they could do it. ... These chip sets often have reference board designs that go around it. So you use that design conjoined with your current design. I don't think that's the problem.

Irrespective of whatever image format emerges in the future and how it might be implemented, the basic features of Wi-fi, gps, and accelerometer should be a slam dunk, but for BM it was not. They tried and for whatever reason couldn't do it in the UM and it doesn't look like they have even tried in the later versions.

Irrespective, they could have tried something else.

They may need to buy a cell phone company in order to acquire the capability to create a camera with those features.

The problem is accuracy.

Mobile phone sensors just aren’t accurate enough for what we need to do.

I’ve started using a real compass and inclinometer again after long using sun tracking apps on my phone, because the compass and positional sensors just aren’t accurate (for me) to predict where the sun will be accurately enough.

In the original implementation the accuracy was a problem and it was also hard to make the sensors work though the body of the camera as well.

JB

That's a design issue. I would place a sensor set on each side of they was the case if need be. If interference was the issue, I would isolate those sections, or isolate the sensor in the direction of interference and use the s of the sensors to figure the correct value, which leads to the thought of it doing an array to sort out external interference. But this is advanced thinking, where phone sensors are made to be cheap. But, it is also the matter of using an a-grade phones, sensors, and android implementation, and preferably embedded and not android phones. There are many reasons things stuff up, not just what seems obvious.

I can understand accuracy issues relating to augmented reality VFX, but they already use mobile phones for that, and do they need anywhere near that accuracy.

Another option is to put the sensor on your hat and relay the data to camera which can use triangulation to work out it's relative angle. But, on phone bed they regularly use the motion sensor to refine the accuracy of location and can do that with movement relative to compass and level metres, but that can get complex. That's off the top of my head. My own designs are different from this for dead reckoning.

... In the original implementation the accuracy was a problem and it was also hard to make the sensors work though the body of the camera as well. ...

Yeah, that's what I remember the unofficial rumor was at the time. So since then let's tick off what other camera manufacturers have managed to do with that functionality.

1. GPS - point and shoot cameras have had this functionality for a very long time. It might not have great utility in this context but for some it could be useful. But in general GPS it is a very, very low technical bar to implement in any product.
2. Accelerometer - the lowly gopro has managed to add that to their camera and it is a great help in stabilizing footage in post. Perhaps the data doesn't have to be all that accurate to be useful for that purpose.
3. Wi-fi or internet connection - z cams have had a network connection almost from the beginning. Just about everything has an internet connection. Many of BM's products have an internet connection. I just bought a tinyCLR board and Wi-Fi was an extra 10$ in retail quantity 1. This is a very, very, very low technical bar to overcome.

The excuses you list were given a very long time ago, but what about now? This is low hanging fruit. They don't even have to implement all three, I'd be happy with wi-fi. They don't even have to implement it this year. I'll wait a year for them to take apart a baby monitor to see how it's done.

I love BM cameras. Their image is brilliant, their interface is outstanding, they have built important support products like Resolve, but everything else is kinda meh. They definitely have opportunities for improvement, and some of them are easy. And they don't even have to do it all themselves. If they just added a place to connect a wi-fi adapter and added data connection support to their SDK, the aftermarket manufacturers would do the rest. But BM can't even do that.

I have long pointed out that a they need to do is support the USB protocols for these things through a hub. You then can just plug these things in and the camera recognises and uses the device through standard API interface. But this requires a standard processor to really manage it properly, and a lot of FPGA doesn't have that. There are various embedded interfaces, but as far as adding it to the current cameras, USB. Now, you can put a soft core into an FPGA, but they are not so economical or quick. The best sofcore for size versus performance is probably something like a Forth related Misc core, but that won't run standard libraries, without a C compiler, which just slows things down again on a minimal core like that, unless it's set up for it. Custom ASIC Misc arrays are actually used as a competitor to small low powered FPGA, and had held the record for lowest energy processor using a big manufacturing node compared to modern chips. So, a descent version of ASIC Misc real core could run C routines very efficiently on an FPGA taking up miminal space. They do this with big old real ARMs on FPGA, pity no super speed Misc. But an array of Misc can blast FPGA. These are the areas I've been working on. The current stuff is meant to achieve the lowest instance of power, so is clunky, stripped down to a lot less than 10k transistors in the the non advanced designs. However, I'm looking at a 10x plus increase in performance density on a performance version. 100x lie is the aim of my old design. And that's the hard part figuring out how to design the mechanisms and the shifts in the way we think and do things. We are only scratching the surface of what we could do with our present capabilities (plus the next gen magnetic processing basically just blows my stuff away any way, so I have been waiting to use that instead). Within 10 years, conventional FPGA will likely be seldom used, even conventional semiconductors could be used a lot lot less. Instead magnetic FPGA anr magnetic custom.circuites could be used for most things, at up to a millionth the energy usage and up to 2 terahertz.

Anyway. BM could sell a pass through cable that plugs into the USB and attaches to the camera, to provide all this functionality, or just a USB wifi passthrough dongle that links to a little tiny box attached to the camera with all.thus stuff in it. All these things could be sold for other cameras whoes manufacturers decide to support the standard USB and wifi protocols in firmware.

They may need to buy a cell phone company in order to acquire the capability to create a camera with those features.

The problem is accuracy.

Mobile phone sensors just aren’t accurate enough for what we need to do.

I’ve started using a real compass and inclinometer again after long using sun tracking apps on my phone, because the compass and positional sensors just aren’t accurate (for me) to predict where the sun will be accurately enough.

In the original implementation the accuracy was a problem and it was also hard to make the sensors work though the body of the camera as well.

JB

Yeah, I’ve been burned a few times by the mobile apps that do sun tracking. Just off by enough that the sun wasn’t quite in the position I thought it would be. I now use it as a generalization tool to guesstimate enough to know what I should expect when location scouting.

Still nonetheless the tools are something to strive to eventually implement into camera systems. Maybe in a decade or so. All of it is to improve visual effects and make post production work easier.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What do the techies think of this?

eND for the ZCAM
https://www.cinema5d.com/z-cam-electron ... available/

Expensive. Many years ago I looked at using an electronic shutter which works like this, as a ND filter. But the cameras themselves are expensive. If it wasn't fur the micro like box camera style, why would you buy it at those prices compared to a BM?

Is 6.7 stops enough for you?

Expensive. Many years ago I looked at using an electronic shutter which works like this, as a ND filter. But the cameras themselves are expensive. If it wasn't fur the micro like box camera style, why would you buy it at those prices compared to a BM?

Is 6.7 stops enough for you?

The only thing that has me interested is the form factor. I love BRAW, I'm not really interested in ZRAW or H.265... I'm not sure if 6.7 stops is enough, but it's nice to have an internal option.

Oh, I agree. Would be good if it was standard or $50 option. But that is what Z-Cam does these days, more expensive equipment.

it also appears that ZRAW does not hold up in Post as well as BRAW.

I've been tempted to steer away from Blackmagic to a Mavo LF or a ZCam setup.... but the functionality and smoothness of BRAW on my Ursa Mini Pro keeps me ground.

The RED Komodo doesn't seem as appealing to me, due to its size. I really appreciate the girth and natural steadiness that comes with the UMP, but i wish it was a little less bulky. I haven't used the side handle in a year and i'm loving it....

but man, imagine a modular BMD 15 stops of DR, Dual ISO, Multiple Mount System, 6K - LF, and can run of of Sony NPF batteries....

Yep, the MAVO-LF checks a lot of boxes https://www.agdok.de/de_DE/kameratest2019-en, I hope they figure out a way to make KineRAW 2.0 a real alternative(RED's patent are not valid outside the US).

They used a version of cineform raw years back, and Red licensed the tech too I think (years back).

Adam, there is a trick with z-raw, no tricks. So, it is purer, not using spatial noise removal. There is an artiical comparing on cinema5D. Braw works better in post because it has less data and detail to work with, and less noise.

It's a shame ZRaw didn't do their original 4k current camera a bit better and offer it for $699 again. But, looking at a dynamic range test I saw, it looks maxed out to get it's 15 stops. Which sensors do all these cameras use?

Here is something to go with the Z-Cam:

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/produc ... _assist12g

But, I don't imagine there is Braw recording support for zcam. Pretty cool device, though a bit boxy.

I want little mobile sensors built into the video assists, to use them as a camera. The interesting things is, appart from being able to get mountable lenses for such sensors, is an ultra wide setting would give you a reference shot of the surrounding scene, and also something that can be used to work out tracking and noise in post. You could make the camera physically track the direction of the main camera too. But a 108-192mp on an 180 degree fish eye, would allow it to virtually track in the image.

On a multi camera setup they can use different cameras at different exposures, and monochrome sensors to get higher dynamic range. Using a prism they could relay some light to a mobile sendir, passing the rest to the s35, combining both into up to 30 or so stops HDR image at the moment. Still dof from cus issues, but I'm teasing this time.

Here is something to go with the Z-Cam:

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/produc ... _assist12g

But, I don't imagine there is Braw recording support for scam. Pretty cool device, though a bit boxy.

I didn't think of this.... But I it would put the price at more than I want to pay. I think BM is going to surprise us with a new Micro... and I'll be there with my money in hand.

Sorry, google keyboard changed zcam's name, I've changed it back. Could you change it in the quote please. Thanks.

Nikon and Aja are out of NAB. Red is cancelling the demo area. I guess we'll see what happens with this. I've been wondering about an upcoming purchase of P4K or P6K then I saw that the Red Komodo will have global shutter. Something I'd like to see in say, the P6K. Well, that and to second Tim's suggestion for a coffee maker though I'd add a milk steamer to that so I can make my latte on location.

Honestly with the way resolution is driving the market right now an Ursa mini pro 6k would be the next best thing. Using the sensor from the already amazing pocket 6k with the body of the Ursa mini pro. Or what would be ever better is to have a 6k and 8k version.

Me personally I love Braw and will continue to use it. My main camera is a pocket camera 4k and I'm looking to pick up a new main camera even if its an Ursa mini pro or pro G2 if nothing is announced this year. The codec to me is great.

Really hope they don't pull out of NAB cause it will be my first year going and I'm looking forward to seeing them there.

Its not only NAB cancellation, If BMG products are made in China or South Korea or any other hard-hit
area. any new product could take longer than the p4k vigiltook.


Ricardo Marty

Well, NAB has implemented a "No Handshake Policy" as a preventative measure. We'll see if NAB happens.

Nonetheless Blackmagic Design could still do announcement videos. In fact I happen to be looking forward to those. And I'm most anticipating DaVinci Resolve 17. 16.2 was great, so I'm even more pumped for what they announce in a month.

If I may suggest a cool alternative to an NAB Showroom Floor Announcement: A Tour of the Blackmagic Design Facilities with each department announcing the new product.

EDIT: Avid just pulled out of NAB: https://www.avid.com/covid-19?utm_mediu ... CCGNeKfko0

Add Adobe to that list.

https://theblog.adobe.com/adobe-withdraws-from-nab-show-2020/

NAB ain't happening this year. Too many companies dropping out, and the infections are just going to go up in the next month.

However, I am looking forward to Grant's video stream hopefully soon, and at least I'm glad that I got the chance to meet the legend in person at last year's show!

IMG_1578.jpg (359.91 KiB) Viewed 6306 times

Nice photo. Grant looks very relaxed there after what must have been a very stressful and hectic road to NAB.

Can you explain this part and what you expect to gain with ProRes RAW compared to BRAW?
And why is no camera supporting ProRes RAW HQ? Don't Apple users like better quality than medio core ProResRAW?, if so stick to iPhone's or iPad's.

For starters, it captures the mosaiced picture, not a partially demosaiced in between from the camera. If BM is not capturing the image in the unaltered Bayer pattern, they shouldn't call it raw, because it isn't.
Other than that, real-world performance and file sizes seem similar.

Secondly, what makes you think no camera supports prores raw hq? You set the flavour of prores raw on the recorder. So every camera that sends a raw output to a compatible atomos recorder 'supports' prores hq.

A lot is announced in this world, delivering is what counts, like Assimilate Scratch did (and they also showed that it's not much of a RAW format compared to all the others

There is no way to control the metadata like on most other raw formats. For now. That does not mean the metadata is not there. The format is solid. It needs better implementation. But why people get so worked up about a separate control for WB and ISO settings is beyond me. When you demosaic in realtime you can do the exact same things by adjusting the image with colour and exposure correction tools.

I can understand you think implementing prores raw in a BM camera is a bit silly since they have their own codec that performs similarly. But why the need for all the trash talk? You because you don't like apple doesn't mean this codec stinks. Get your facts straight.

What about if somebody on April ist post here that BM is cancelling NAB product releases due to the corona virus, and reschedule the releases till a show at the end of the year, which if the virus is going still wrong then they will reschedule the releases untill midway into next year, and if it is still around, they will reschedule till next year, in an Australian venue mid the following year?

What about if somebody on April ist post here that BM is cancelling NAB product releases due to the corona virus, and reschedule the releases till a show at the end of the year

I don't think that would happen (certainly not on April 1st, since everyone would assume it was a joke!). BMD is fully equipped to do product announcements online and they've done it before, there's no need for them to be physically at a show. A show is nice for the hands-on experience and for meeting people (the number one reason to go to a trade show, in my opinion, is to meet your peers and colleagues and customers), but it's totally unnecessary for product announcements.

I put that so.people wouldn't think I'm serious.

NAB News: https://nabshow.com/2020/news-releases/ ... this-year/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So NAB has been postponed. I hope it doesn't affect product announcements.

Ricardo Marty

So NAB has been postponed. I hope it doesn't affect product announcements.

I doubt it will, but we'll have to wait and see. There's a lot of pent-up anticipation and a lot of companies have been developing new products to unveil at NAB or in the weeks leading up to it. This takes some of the pressure off them to meet a hard deadline, but I imagine most of them will push on and release on or close to schedule anyway. Some might even make announcements earlier than planned, assuming everything's ready to go.

Going back to my joke. Pretty difficult to write at nearly 4 am. I meant to put in that they delay due to parts shortages (actually I didn't want to say this in the past because I want to see something to buy, and don't don't want launches delayed) and they wanted enough to meet demand otherwise not release, and the parts shortages could go on until next year or the year after, so you might see the model or two after this year's. So, stuff, if they have what I want, please release it or sell it to me?

I am currently going go and look at the next official 8k phone (but there are maybe many models that can weekly be made to do it from last year). I'm trying to figure out how to get stuff from a phone to an external recorder, but it looks unlikely to do it at reasonable price. Tapping the sensor is just unreasonable, you might aswell wait for and buy an 8k cinema camera by the time you did that. 12k footage, is probably unfeasible. The internal bandwidths etc are constrictive, and 12k from the pins would require so much data it's impossible. I am anted to experiment with a simple codec I wanted to do, on ASIC to external drive. But no ASIC, and no FPGA compact and value enough that could easily fit on a phone case. Even the east solutions are so far away. It can be done at great cost for those with the money.

I agree with Brad. We’re likely to see products earlier than later as it’s a competitive market and making a good impression as soon as you are ready helps lock in mindsets and future sales.

Actually, I stand corrected. There is a technology that could do low cost energy low cost uncompressed recording. I was thinking it only needs a thin sliver of ASIC to do the recording, but then realised that a certain technology can be custom programmed to do that at great efficiencies, but there maybe no chips setup to do that, as the tech hasn't gone wide market in a general purpose design over the last 15 or so years (but is used in a various custom applications). But that made me realise there are a variety of chips that could do the basics, but you loose out on the energy requirements of the rest of the chip, size and cost, but if you can dynamically power down the rest of the chip you can keep the energy envelope down, but the codec side is still going to take too much processing energy without the right processing solution, but I know somebody that can do it but it would cost millions to design.

Back to reality of the now, not reality of the could/should. BM could save a fortune over FPGA and be able to do action cam sized compressed visually lossless and lossless recording. By commisoning the advanced version of the greenarrays chip. There programmanle chip is one of the ones meant to outdo FPGA in performance energy and costs. A single processor might be 10,000-20,000 transistors plus memory. So, so, that's hundreds to tens of thousands of cores with memory per reasonable FPGA transistor counts. Once you slice up chips off a wafer, you get so many chips really cheap, because they are so small. One wafer could do the entire Blackmagic production run for years. Every product could be done in a year on one wafer (it really depends on how many cores and configuration is required, buy you could put the top camera chip into a very small product, and simply turn most of the cores off, as these chips are by one of the members of the asynchronous computing patent, and can be powered down and powered up dynamically in the execution stream, really simple neat stuff except only the light weight simple model is available to the public). I'm assuming the advanced model is a modest improvement on this with a low multiple of transistor counts here).

They probably would welcome a deal at the moment, as they have to change foundaries. So, I would order on the basis of commission on sales of the advanced chip to other people, as the investment would allow the to springboard into other markets, and on the basis of general sales, as there is a community of developers using their existing chips that would love to use the advanced chip. Plus, they are one of the few companies that I would point to, to do processing behind pixel technology. They run at natural silicon clocking speed, do low energy heat and interference. You could compress and write to storage and run the whole camera system off of the sensor chip (but realistically, I would stick a lot of the processing to the side of the pixel array, or drill through technology, which is still expensive and unlikely to be at the foundry). On top end you stick more to the side, on lier end you stick more underneath, just incase it gives you 12db+ better performance. So, the foundry costs to do on sensor at the sensor foundary will probably be lowish, as it was a rolled into the cost of the sensor development. Interesting. What do you guys think?