What new BM cameras await us next month or so?

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Wayne Steven

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What new BM cameras await us next month or so?

PostWed Feb 26, 2020 5:25 pm

Well, we are coming up to the annual BM camera pre release period. 8k phones are out, and even mid range phones have used 48mp last year that people have been getting 8k video out of in high end phones. Do, what are we waiting for, 8k should downscale rather well to 4k or 2k, especially if you diagonally shift a pixel, which would act like a very sharp Optical low pass filter.

But wait, there is more. Phones now have 12k sensors and may hit 16k this year. These are not meant for 13/2k or 16k filming, but stills and down sampling mainly. But, there has been an exciting development, companies are starting to use groups of 4 or 9 pixels for phase detection to render 4k images. Which mean every 4k pixel offers focus detection. But the scheme reminds me of another technology multipoint, or light feild, filming. I wonder if the new sensors could be used that way? This means good post focus and bokeh effects are more doable. It also means that a professional cinema camera company can jump at the chance to release next generation cameras, to further their new sales. It also means that there are cheap parts to do POV and Nano Action camera like versions. I wonder if the Sony sensor deal only stops at the pockets? Sony, is also doing multi point sensor modules for the Light camera technology.
Last edited by Wayne Steven on Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What new cameras await us next month or so?

PostWed Feb 26, 2020 5:53 pm

With this corona flu thing, I don't think we will see much out of Kinefinity for a few months. Supply chain issues may see other origin products backlogged and new releases delayed until uncompleted inventory is put back into assembly and then sold.
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Re: What new cameras await us next month or so?

PostWed Feb 26, 2020 5:54 pm

With this corona flu thing, I don't think we will see much out of Kinefinity for a few months. Supply chain issues may see other origin products backlogged and new releases delayed until uncompleted inventory is put back into assembly and then sold.
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Wayne Steven

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Re: What new cameras await us next month or so?

PostThu Feb 27, 2020 12:49 am

True enough. Just in time supply economics is the enemy, otherwise the parts for the trust first/half/year could already be stockpiled. I see Grant as wise enough to do that. So, I wonder what will happen?
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Re: What new BM cameras await us next month or so?

PostThu Feb 27, 2020 2:15 am

Announced in April to ship in July?
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Re: What new BM cameras await us next month or so?

PostThu Feb 27, 2020 9:09 am

They had been announcing before NAB.

Anyway. New season of Altered Carbon on now. So, I bid you good night.
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Re: What new BM cameras await us next month or so?

PostThu Feb 27, 2020 4:17 pm

I'm definitely anxious and hoping for an upgraded micro to compete with the Z CAM line. Pocket 4K sensor and same features is enough for me. I'll be refreshing the B&H page once a second to put in my pre-order. :lol: If a full frame version is offered I may spring for that, but it'll be a complete overhaul for me because I'd have to get new lenses. I do love the full frame look, but idk...
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Re: What new BM cameras await us next month or so?

PostThu Feb 27, 2020 4:23 pm

rick.lang wrote:Announced in April to ship in July?


Oh, how I miss those promised July shipping times.
When we were so young and gay.

Aaaaah! Good times!
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Re: What new BM cameras await us next month or so?

PostThu Feb 27, 2020 4:36 pm

How about a camera with missiles to take out my enemies with?


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Re: What new BM cameras await us next month or so?

PostThu Feb 27, 2020 4:47 pm

Oh, and a coffee maker needs to be added to the next camera. Yes, this is pivotal.


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Re: What new BM cameras await us next month or so?

PostThu Feb 27, 2020 5:03 pm

While we're in wish land..I would really like a stable, crash free Davinci Resolve. :)
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Re: What new BM cameras await us next month or so?

PostThu Feb 27, 2020 5:09 pm

pnguyen720 wrote:While we're in wish land..I would really like a stable, crash free Davinci Resolve. :)


Where is your sense of adventure?
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Re: What new BM cameras await us next month or so?

PostThu Feb 27, 2020 5:55 pm

Ok. Finished all of Altered Carbon Season 2 earlier, and very happy with the ending. :). I do wish the original guy was in it.

timbutt2 wrote:How about a camera with missiles to take out my enemies with?


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What BM make a camera to take Red out? :)
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Re: What new BM cameras await us next month or so?

PostThu Feb 27, 2020 5:58 pm

Leon Benzakein wrote:
rick.lang wrote:Announced in April to ship in July?


Oh, how I miss those promised July shipping times.
When we were so young and gay.

Aaaaah! Good times!


Speak for yourself. With Que and others clicking retailers every second, I hope I don't have to wait until next July.
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Re: What new BM cameras await us next month or so?

PostThu Feb 27, 2020 8:05 pm

Wayne Steven wrote:Speak for yourself. With Que and others clicking retailers every second, I hope I don't have to wait until next July.


:lol: I'll have Grant's presentation on one monitor and B&H on the other. :lol: They'll still tell me I'm 78th in line.
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Re: What new BM cameras await us next month or so?

PostThu Feb 27, 2020 9:15 pm

But due to pandemic concerns, every leg of the delivery will add an extra two weeks quarantine so shipping in late July means receiving in October at the earliest.
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Re: What new BM cameras await us next month or so?

PostFri Feb 28, 2020 12:29 am

Oh, great. All this delay talk doesn't make me feel so good.
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Re: What new BM cameras await us next month or so?

PostFri Feb 28, 2020 1:21 am

I can’t wait to see what they’ve been cooking. Also watching Altered Carbon. Just started. I waited so long for this, but the hook this season is just not the same as the beginning of S1. I hope there’s more to it. Not sure I’ll get through it for a couple more days though.


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Re: What new BM cameras await us next month or so?

PostFri Feb 28, 2020 2:52 am

I’m using my Super8 this year. Is it obsolete or is it a tool that can still be used regardless of the “K” it doesn’t have or have or we want it to have?

No way will it replace my UMP or Pocket4K but it’s a great tool in its own right.

Which brings me to constant upgrades every year. Do we need them? How about fix what we have, upgrade what we have and become a less wasteful world. Years ago when I worked at a rental place you could actually repair cameras. Nowadays it’s a crap shoot whether you can or not. If it can’t be repaired it’s junk and the cycle continues. And an OLD Arri is still better** than any 4K, 6K, 8K or 12K from any other manufacturer....

**personal opinion


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Re: What new BM cameras await us next month or so?

PostFri Feb 28, 2020 9:31 pm

I just want an improved PCC4k with more dynamic range and prores RAW.
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Re: What new BM cameras await us next month or so?

PostFri Feb 28, 2020 9:59 pm

Tim Kraemer wrote:I just want an improved PCC4k with more dynamic range and prores RAW.


prores RAW for what?, you have BRAW...
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Re: What new BM cameras await us next month or so?

PostFri Feb 28, 2020 11:20 pm

MishaEngel wrote:
Tim Kraemer wrote:I just want an improved PCC4k with more dynamic range and prores RAW.


prores RAW for what?, you have BRAW...


Be cause apple are greener than black magic

Human what what they haven’t
Mine it’s a joke Tim


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Re: What new BM cameras await us next month or so?

PostSat Feb 29, 2020 4:30 am

sjaehnert wrote:I can’t wait to see what they’ve been cooking. Also watching Altered Carbon. Just started. I waited so long for this, but the hook this season is just not the same as the beginning of S1. I hope there’s more to it. Not sure I’ll get through it for a couple more days though.


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It's complicated, as was last seasons. No ATeam there. But last season's was definitely something, like a modern day better Blade Runner feel (I'm not really a fan .of the feel of BR too, but this did well). They also dropped the brilliant into they used in the first season, heard on first season main trailer. That would give a nice intro feel to each episode.
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Re: What new BM cameras await us next month or so?

PostSat Feb 29, 2020 4:36 am

Patrick Spectra wrote:I’m using my Super8 this year. Is it obsolete or is it a tool that can still be used regardless of the “K” it doesn’t have or have or we want it to have?

No way will it replace my UMP or Pocket4K but it’s a great tool in its own right.

Which brings me to constant upgrades every year. Do we need them? How about fix what we have, upgrade what we have and become a less wasteful world. Years ago when I worked at a rental place you could actually repair cameras. Nowadays it’s a crap shoot whether you can or not. If it can’t be repaired it’s junk and the cycle continues. And an OLD Arri is still better** than any 4K, 6K, 8K or 12K from any other manufacturer....

**personal opinion


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Does it have K at all rather than SD? Are more modern film stocks a lot better?

Don't view it as upgrades, you got what you got, view it as new cameras for those who are looking to buy one.
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What new BM cameras await us next month or so?

PostSat Feb 29, 2020 10:06 pm

Another study of 8K versus 4K but this is an industry studio conducted blind test!


https://www.provideocoalition.com/8k-ve ... ifference/

I think it had to be at least two years ago that I mentioned I thought a smart development would be a 6K sensor using the photosite size of the URSA Mini 4.6K sensor. 6144x3456 would be roughly 33.8x19mm. That makes sense if such a sensor would be available to BMD as that should deliver great 4K.
Last edited by rick.lang on Sat Feb 29, 2020 10:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What new BM cameras await us next month or so?

PostSat Feb 29, 2020 10:08 pm

I think what BMD really needs more than anything else is the proverbial "killer app" camera.

Ever since BMD has gotten into the camera game, their primary selling point has been not resolution, not functionality, but price. Price is a good incentive, but there are two problems with that being the only incentive:

- 1. It frames you as a 'discount' product and creates the impression that you're not as good as much more expensive cameras (i.e. Arri/RED).

- 2. Sooner or later someone else comes in with an even less expensive product which is arguably better (i.e. Sigma, Kinefinity, Z-Cam).

So how does BMD differentiate itself, how does it do something that nobody else can do (yet)? The upcoming 8k URSA will be evolutionary...but BMD needs revolutionary if it wants to dominate.

VFX/CG driven content is more and more prominent even in low budget films. The biggest challenge by far in the VFX pipeline is to ensure proper and correct motion tracking, particularly when dealing with less than ideal footage.

Technology is currently available to include gyro/position sensors in the camera that can track its movement. If an iPhone can do it, custom dedicated hardware on a camera can certainly do it better.

Since BMD controls BlackmagicRAW, it is in a position to embed the resulting positional metadata within its own proprietary codec.

But what even with positional sensors, the technology still isn't there to ensure a pixel-perfect result? Once again, BMD is uniquely positioned -- Fusion already has a very capable 3d camera tracker, why not use it to analyze and correct any inconsistencies in the metadata?

Another needed element in footage is Z-space information. Once again, the iPhone can do it with its clustered cameras. Imagine stereoscopic sensors mounted on the front of the URSA capturing z-space data to make compositing new backgrounds without shooting green-screen completely possible.

BMD has an opportunity to revolutionize the industry and become impossible to ignore. I really hope that they have been working on it for the past 3-4 years and are getting ready to release it soon!
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Re: What new BM cameras await us next month or so?

PostSat Feb 29, 2020 11:53 pm

I agree with Tim. A bmpcc 4k with better dynamic range (though I dont feel THAT constrained by the current dynamic range) and prores raw as an option would be good.

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Re: What new BM cameras await us next month or so?

PostSun Mar 01, 2020 12:47 am

Robert Castiglione wrote:and prores raw as an option would be good.

Rob


Can you explain this part and what you expect to gain with ProRes RAW compared to BRAW?
And why is no camera supporting ProRes RAW HQ? Don't Apple users like better quality than medio core ProResRAW?, if so stick to iPhone's or iPad's.
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Re: What new BM cameras await us next month or so?

PostSun Mar 01, 2020 1:36 am

rick.lang wrote:Another study of 8K versus 4K but this is an industry studio conducted blind test!


https://www.provideocoalition.com/8k-ve ... ifference/

I think it had to be at least two years ago that I mentioned I thought a smart development would be a 6K sensor using the photosite size of the URSA Mini 4.6K sensor. 6144x3456 would be roughly 33.8x19mm. That makes sense if such a sensor would be available to BMD as that should deliver great 4K.


Something like to that Rick, for your 6k sensor. We shouldn't stick to one photosite structure now that even mobile chips are doing so well at 12k. There should be a much better 6k photosite now. Red has steamed past BM and Arii on single sample natural performance, where days sample should be much much better. Tme for a bit of catch up in double to match Red. The new Arri does this close enough, before Red presumably leap frogs away again.
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Re: What new BM cameras await us next month or so?

PostSun Mar 01, 2020 3:55 am

rick.lang wrote:Another study of 8K versus 4K but this is an industry studio conducted blind test!


https://www.provideocoalition.com/8k-ve ... ifference/



You have to ask yourself what is this article telling us?

It's like the health benefits of the vegetarian versus the near diet. These comparison studies loaded up good vegetarian diets against non vegetarian diets, which included all sorts of junk food bad diets, instead of good non vegetarian diets. This skews the statistics in favour side with less polluted data in a study. With this study, you do reality tests, on charts and ideal representations of REAL 4k and 8k specifically made to get the most of each resolution. You don't do things Iike throw in heaps of movement or any lossy compression at all, to skew the results. You also account for the number of viewers work sufficient eyesight to see the difference and place them at a distance that maximises enjoyment in human vision of normal people before getting too wide, forgetting those with cognitive issues who can simply sit further back in the theatre. It's about a.msjority of the audience approach, a clear majority of 80% pluss being accommodated. This means that youth films will more likely have more people who see 8k difference, and older people films with most people unable to see 8k difference, maybe even 4k. It means that of just 20% of an audience can see it, it's a bonus, a score. It's about a holistic, how dyes it make other people feel approach. It means the relatively static real world detailed nature scenes where people are seeing a difference, proves the point.

Let's step back and look at what the article reports. Firstly, most participants interests. Prime, compression schemes work on detail contrast reduction. Limited bandwidth reduces the apparent visibility of 8k detail.versys 4k detail, versus 2k detail at low bandwidths. So, 20mh/s+ is ideal consumer viewing for 2k, less so for 4k, less so for 8k. For 4k, 72mb/s+ is ideal, for 8k, 288mb/s+ is ideal. At 72mb/s, Yiu are really getting towards rediculos, which is why we need a proper disc format for the time.being, which now go into terabytes on it cal storage disc technologies. The figures I quoted are at h265, as we go to h267/h268, online online 8k should become more practical. They are also based off of the top end figures used for blue ray at fullhd, which is half an ideal viewing figure in cinema. The American Film Society. There are a lot of precessional people who are just still stick in 2k area and proving that, who don't want the hassle of progress, who have little interest in effort for another resolution jump. So, I don't know if they have any influence at all, but cinemas themselves have a major disadvantage in 8k, as it requires a large investment. Like in the case with online video, they also lack the datarate. If you calculate the jpeg 2k datarates used in cinema, they are ideal fur 2k delivery, less than ideal for 4k, and 8k should be even worse. Don't trust inadequate technology. But maybe they have upgraded their datarates, or will adopt redrsy codec Red wanted, for 8K. So, I don't see incentive to go.there. Pixar, really, their interest in 8k detail is what? LG, here we start to see somebody with reason to really want 8k. But, 8k has been held back by the industry fur s ve y long time. While it has clear usage in computer business, science and industry, in the TV industry it's had to wait it's turn after 3D, 4kp30, 4kp60, HDR, and proper rec2020 usage is still waiting it's turn. Now we are getting 8k without proper content delivery support. Makes a great large format monitor though, but we in the computer industry, and unbreak business use,were cast aside for over a decade. But, the broadcasting side was even worse. Severely bandwidth limited om the present structure, needing redray codec (equivalent to h268+). They finally seem to accept 4k exists, but what sort of bandwidth is 8k going to get? They aren't likely to remove 7/8th of their channels to include it, even though removing 7/8th of their channels is probably a good thing and would increase the audience revenue of the remaining channels. Again, like cinema, a costly upgrade with reduced quality for the time being. But LG, should be able to sell more TV's. But how taxed are their present manufacturing capacity, with heaps of third parties using their panels. 8k OLED also presents challenges, and I don't know if it is as cheap to manufacture yet. 8k on LCD is another matter, as they can just pump more light through and manufacture the LCD cheaper. The latest LCD resolution has often been a moderate inscrese in actual costs for a while. They can manufacture 8k phone or tablet sized screens, so modern TV with 8k, is not too much of a difference. You can get 8k probably doen on your thumb nail for VR now, and I knew one company who were doing 32k VR chip project, demoing 16k LCD chip a few years back. Warner Bros, zi dint know what their interests might be here,not their interval business and film making culture is to thus resolution. So, I would not have thought this bunch represented 8k?

Content:

Dunkirk. This is a 70mm frame rather than IMAX 10 perf? Can normal 70mm contain high quality 8k samples? Why was it included? How much motion and movement?

A bugs life. A wasn't knocked over by Dramatic scene like detail on that one. I wonder if people objected to harder 8k edging over 4k edging on this one? Why was I t included?

"most consumers can’t see a difference between 4K and 8K. In fact, reveals the test, more prefer 4K"

I would have expected most everybody to not prefer it if there wasn't a difference. But despite the choice of content above, a portion still did. That indicates their is a real effect.

"Professional test charts will also tell you that 8K is better than 4K, as it is, in fact, 4 times bigger. The problem is that most consumers can’t tell the difference,..."

Pretty much there, admits there is a real difference. It again is what your audience gets out of it, and if 30% or 80% of your audience gets an improves experienve, that is significant.

"The double-blind study aims was to see if people could discern a difference between 4K and 8K with a variety of content. The simple answer is: no!" Hold it, that 'definitely!' contradicted the last statement '!'.

"the fact that many scores rated the 4K version better than the 8K version is due to one reason: “I believe the reason you see a large number of people rating ‘4K better than 8K’ is that they really can’t see a difference and are simply guessing."

Or, that the content sample doesn't lend itself to 8k.and what sort of visual artifacting and edging was produced.

"Amazon live-action series The Tick—one in a cave and the other in a spaceship—were shot in 8K on a Red digital-cinema camera, as was a clip of nature footage shot by Stacey Spears."

A cave? I wouldn't expect to see much in a cave, let alone on a steaming service. Did the render everything optimal for detail lossless, if they didn't, we don't want to know. Was this shown off a 20mb/s file? Did it use a top lossless compression mode on the Red camera, or the lowest? Did they put the effort into producing 8k production to see the detail? I wound not expect to see much 8k detail on a spaceship either.

“increasing spatial resolution from 4K to 8K under typical viewing conditions does not result in a significant visual improvement."

Here's the rub I forgot to mention above. "Under typical viewing conditions" all are not optimal viewing conditions. Sitting two to four times too far from a 55 inch screen playing prime, is not optimal. Sitting up to two times too far in cinema, is not optimal. You must sit as close to a large scene as you can without having to physically look around the screen, filling your inner peripheral vision.

The other day I was looking at TV's and inadvertently looked at an 8k TV, and could see the grid between the pixels clearly. I then realised I was looking at an 8k TV, and thought that surely I couldn't see the grid between 8k pixels, as technically it was supposed to be impossible to see them at correct distance. Then I realised I was too close and took a step back to the correct distance, and the grid lines disappeared, as they should. The pixels on my.4k TV were getting annoying sometimes as my vision picked up too. They are dreaming. But, I personally think 4k is generally enough, though 8k can give a boost, and is good for special productions, especially for youth..


"Also, a perceptual difference is somewhat dependent on content; in particular, ratings for the clips from Stacey Spears’ nature footage leaned a bit more toward 8K than the others, possibly because it has lots of high-frequency detail.”"

As expected, the cllip with 8k detail scored more. But, was it optimaly shoot for 8k, well lit, contrasty, focused with minimal movement, in lossless. Was it shown lossless at an optimal distance filling the inner peripheral vision? Could the score be a lot higher under those conditions?

Typical distances and films do not matter, that is not what is being tested. What is being tested is the real difference between 4k and 8k, and that requires testing optimal for 8k only, then you can estrapolate to typical distances of viewing, and audience ratios who can see it in different audiences to work out financial benefit in doing 8k productionm. You watch from an optimal distance and viewing, when viewing 8k.
aIf you are not truthfully progressive, maybe you shouldn't say anything
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cOften people deceive themselves so much they do not understand, even when the truth is explained to them
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rick.lang

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Re: What new BM cameras await us next month or so?

PostSun Mar 01, 2020 5:27 am

Wayne Steven wrote:Something like to that Rick, for your 6k sensor. We shouldn't stick to one photosite structure now that even mobile chips are doing so well at 12k...


I agree; my suggestion could be considered a starting point and I’ve been thinking better photosite design may possibly be available to BMD as they have had the 4.6K sensor for over five years.
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Re: What new BM cameras await us next month or so?

PostSun Mar 01, 2020 5:37 am

I agree the films compared were rather strange, particularly animations, but at least they deflected any criticism if they had relied on test charts from people saying “that’s not what people view on a TV or in theatres!

I also thought the conclusion that people were just guessing was very odd and not accurate. Understand the reasons for results and if you don’t understand them, please say that simply and don’t guess your subjects are just guessing.
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Oyvind Fiksdal

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Re: What new BM cameras await us next month or so?

PostSun Mar 01, 2020 10:58 am

Kays Alatrakchi wrote:I think what BMD really needs more than anything else is the proverbial "killer app" camera.

Since BMD controls BlackmagicRAW, it is in a position to embed the resulting positional metadata within its own proprietary codec.

But what even with positional sensors, the technology still isn't there to ensure a pixel-perfect result? Once again, BMD is uniquely positioned -- Fusion already has a very capable 3d camera tracker, why not use it to analyze and correct any inconsistencies in the metadata?

Another needed element in footage is Z-space information. Once again, the iPhone can do it with its clustered cameras. Imagine stereoscopic sensors mounted on the front of the URSA capturing z-space data to make compositing new backgrounds without shooting green-screen completely possible.

BMD has an opportunity to revolutionize the industry and become impossible to ignore. I really hope that they have been working on it for the past 3-4 years and are getting ready to release it soon!


Agree Kays. I think It would be a great move from Blackmagic to get in front as a lower budget solution, and I hope they are developing it as we speak. Most don’t use this kind of technology in todays production, but we see its coming FAST. With the benefit of Fusion, BM could get a powerful tool that would speed up FX work greatly. In the next couple of years will see a shift in the industry where bigger budget movies/series will be done in a highly efficient manner and the lower budget production will be left with older technology and equipment. We need companies like BM to prevent this from happening. And they will be awarded for it if they can keep up.
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Re: What new BM cameras await us next month or so?

PostSun Mar 01, 2020 11:12 am

rick.lang wrote:I agree the films compared were rather strange, particularly animations, but at least they deflected any criticism if they had relied on test charts from people saying “that’s not what people view on a TV or in theatres!

I also thought the conclusion that people were just guessing was very odd and not accurate. Understand the reasons for results and if you don’t understand them, please say that simply and don’t guess your subjects are just guessing.


The same odd result happened in several HDvs4K test earlier. HD mostly won. One theory, which I agree upon, is that the density of the pixels makes the preserved resolution less sharp. Meaning that a pixel by pixel perfect 4k image viewed on a conventional tv from normal view distance seem less detailed than a HD image. It makes sense on smaller TV, but not for bigger screens or if you sit closer to the Tv. Most of the HDvs4K test I have read uses tv’s around 40-60 inches. If we should believe these results, then it only makes sense for 8k with tv’s bigger than 150inches.

This resolution/pixel “debate” has been beaten with a crowbar for more than a decade, and what’s left on the ground is beyond recognition.
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Re: What new BM cameras await us next month or so?

PostSun Mar 01, 2020 1:24 pm

8K vs 4K TVs: Double-blind study by Warner Bros. et al reveals most consumers can’t tell the difference
https://www.techhive.com/article/3529913/8k-vs-4k-tvs-most-consumers-cannot-tell-the-difference.html
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Re: What new BM cameras await us next month or so?

PostSun Mar 01, 2020 3:06 pm

rick.lang wrote:I agree the films compared were rather strange, particularly animations, but at least they deflected any criticism if they had relied on test charts from people saying “that’s not what people view on a TV or in theatres!

I also thought the conclusion that people were just guessing was very odd and not accurate. Understand the reasons for results and if you don’t understand them, please say that simply and don’t guess your subjects are just guessing.


It seems test charts would be more accurate than some of that content.
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Re: What new BM cameras await us next month or so?

PostSun Mar 01, 2020 3:11 pm

MishaEngel wrote:8K vs 4K TVs: Double-blind study by Warner Bros. et al reveals most consumers can’t tell the difference
https://www.techhive.com/article/3529913/8k-vs-4k-tvs-most-consumers-cannot-tell-the-difference.html


That's the one we are talking about above. It seems an overly dramatic title
.
Last edited by Wayne Steven on Sun Mar 01, 2020 6:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Oyvind Fiksdal

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Re: What new BM cameras await us next month or so?

PostSun Mar 01, 2020 5:52 pm

No problem, Steven :)
Last edited by Oyvind Fiksdal on Sun Mar 01, 2020 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What new BM cameras await us next month or so?

PostSun Mar 01, 2020 6:24 pm

Sorry, my apologies, I misread the title, stuff going down here. I've corrected my post. If you could correct the quotes please?
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Re: What new BM cameras await us next month or so?

PostMon Mar 02, 2020 2:44 pm

sjaehnert wrote:I can’t wait to see what they’ve been cooking. Also watching Altered Carbon. Just started. I waited so long for this, but the hook this season is just not the same as the beginning of S1. I hope there’s more to it. Not sure I’ll get through it for a couple more days though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The acting talent of the main character was this biggest issue for my from Season 1 (which was pretty darn good) to Season 2, which has felt like it's trying to make a cool story. Season 2 feels more like a cable-channel production.
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Re: What new BM cameras await us next month or so?

PostMon Mar 02, 2020 5:03 pm

He did seem like a mismatch, but he pulled it off. It just became impossible to have him as the lead in the next season at the end of it. But the way they are trying to add things and complicate it so you got to watch everything, next season could have people actively switching between bodies throughout the series, Even more confusing. They would have to use white floating names next to them so the audience could keep track.

I don't want an A Team or Star Trek next gen episode, but some of these series get a bit complicated.
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Re: What new BM cameras await us next month or so?

PostMon Mar 02, 2020 8:18 pm

So I've been out of the loop on this whole RED Komodo camera and I just went on RedUser to get a quick glimpse in to what the community is talking about and wow... This is a real game changer; if they're able to pull it off of course... To be able to get a RED for 5-6k... I think a lot of ppl would jump over just because of the name. I might! The only way I stay is if we get a beefed up micro cinema camera. That's what I want.... RED is a dream for some... Not so much my dream, but people are always saying to me "I can rent a RED for the shoot" and I always say I don't need it, but man... It would be nice... It's like an expensive car or suit for a business man. People are attracted to "RED". Now I'm thinking...

Anyway, there might not be any new cameras at NAB if this coronavirus doesn't let up.
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Re: What new BM cameras await us next month or so?

PostMon Mar 02, 2020 10:21 pm

MishaEngel wrote:
Tim Kraemer wrote:I just want an improved PCC4k with more dynamic range and prores RAW.


prores RAW for what?, you have BRAW...


GPU accelerated functions in adobe products. Adobe doesn't do GPU with BRAW.
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Re: What new BM cameras await us next month or so?

PostTue Mar 03, 2020 1:47 am

Tim Kraemer wrote:
MishaEngel wrote:
Tim Kraemer wrote:I just want an improved PCC4k with more dynamic range and prores RAW.


prores RAW for what?, you have BRAW...


GPU accelerated functions in adobe products. Adobe doesn't do GPU with BRAW.


Are you sure about that? https://helpx.adobe.com/premiere-pro/using/supported-file-formats.html no ProRes RAW as far as I can see (not even on the CPU).
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Re: What new BM cameras await us next month or so?

PostTue Mar 03, 2020 1:57 am

MishaEngel wrote:Are you sure about that? https://helpx.adobe.com/premiere-pro/using/supported-file-formats.html no ProRes RAW as far as I can see (not even on the CPU).


If you do a search, it will take about 10 seconds to find out that Adobe announced a few months ago that Premier Pro will support ProRes Raw natively. As I use Final Cut, I don’t know where Adobe is on implementation. Another minute on Google will probably get an answer.
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Re: What new BM cameras await us next month or so?

PostTue Mar 03, 2020 2:15 am

robedge wrote:
MishaEngel wrote:Are you sure about that? https://helpx.adobe.com/premiere-pro/using/supported-file-formats.html no ProRes RAW as far as I can see (not even on the CPU).


If you do a search, it will take about 10 seconds to find out that Adobe announced a few months ago that Premier Pro will support ProRes Raw natively. As I use Final Cut, I don’t know where Adobe is on implementation. Another minute on Google will probably get an answer.


A lot is announced in this world, delivering is what counts, like Assimilate Scratch did (and they also showed that it's not much of a RAW format compared to all the others https://www.slashcam.de/artikel/Ratgeber/RAW-Format-Vergleich---Ein-tabellarischer-Funktions-Ueberblick--Assimilate-Scratch--RAW-Formate-und-deren-Funkt.html#Assim).
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Re: What new BM cameras await us next month or so?

PostTue Mar 03, 2020 2:21 am

MishaEngel wrote:
robedge wrote:
MishaEngel wrote:Are you sure about that? https://helpx.adobe.com/premiere-pro/using/supported-file-formats.html no ProRes RAW as far as I can see (not even on the CPU).


If you do a search, it will take about 10 seconds to find out that Adobe announced a few months ago that Premier Pro will support ProRes Raw natively. As I use Final Cut, I don’t know where Adobe is on implementation. Another minute on Google will probably get an answer.


A lot is announced in this world, delivering is what counts, like Assimilate Scratch did (and they also showed that it's not much of a RAW format compared to all the others https://www.slashcam.de/artikel/Ratgeber/RAW-Format-Vergleich---Ein-tabellarischer-Funktions-Ueberblick--Assimilate-Scratch--RAW-Formate-und-deren-Funkt.html#Assim).


You started this discussion by asking an earlier poster why he would use ProRes raw when he can use Blackmagic raw and now you have made it clear (it was already pretty clear) that this is about being a Blackmagic fan boy.

So here’s my own answer. The minute that Atomos announces support for ProRes raw on Leica’s new SL2, my current intention is to dump my Pocket 4K unless implementation of ProRes raw in the Pocket 4K is imminent. I’m not holding my breath. Also, presumably like the person of whom you asked the question, and who declined to respond to you, I can’t think of a reason why you should be questioning my decision or my reasons or why it is your business.

You might consider the possibility that turning discussions on this forum in a film version of Android partisans bashing Apple is unhelpful.
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Re: What new BM cameras await us next month or so?

PostTue Mar 03, 2020 3:07 am

If BM skipped announcing a new camera this year in order to come out with a really spectacular camera priced to fly off the shelves with features like CAF, Wi-Fi and wired network connections for fully functional remote monitoring and control, their originally announced (on the original mini) full three dimensional accelerometers, GPS, ya know, things that you will find on any 500$ cell phone, that would be great.
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Re: What new BM cameras await us next month or so?

PostTue Mar 03, 2020 3:29 am

Due to coronavirus everything what was going to be announced next month will be moved to July or August or later. NAB wouldn't be the first event what has been canceled because of the virus
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Re: What new BM cameras await us next month or so?

PostTue Mar 03, 2020 3:33 am

daphoon wrote:Due to coronavirus everything what was going to be announced next month will be moved to July or August or later. NAB wouldn't be the first event what has been canceled because of the virus


As of right now, the NAB web site says that NAB is still on: https://nabshow.com/2020/attend/onsite- ... resources/

Is that wrong?
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