Sound equipment for Pocket Cinema Camera

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Andrew Corazon de Vida

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Sound equipment for Pocket Cinema Camera

PostMon Aug 05, 2013 9:01 pm

Hi, I really appreciate this forum, I'm not a filmmaker but I want to shoot quality promo videos and PSA for the charity I work for. We fund orphanages in Baja, and need to be able to shoot simple testimonials, and fun videos of our orphanage trips, as well as pro quality promo videos and PSA awareness videos.

The pocket cinema camera seems a great option, except that I can't spend more than 2,000 - 2,500 on the whole package.
This is what I have been quoted for by a reseller in Los Angeles:

Pocket Cinema Camera TX Olympus M.ZUIKO - $995
Digital 17mm f TX - $520.00
Watson EN-EL20 Lithium-Ion Bat - $14.99
SanDisk 64GB SDXC Memory Card - $139.00 x 2
Watson Compact AC/DC Charger f - $24.95

Also I'll get a zoom panasonic 14 - 140 lens used for about $550

But no one has said anything about sound?!

As I'll by doing testimonials and capturing live sound, what is my best option? I won't have a crew, it's just me running around a group of about 40 people and up to 90 kids capturing moments to make videos with to promote the experience of visiting and supporting an orphanage!

Or is a Blackmagic pocket camera not the right camera for our needs?

Thank so much for all the help!
Andrew McReynolds
www.facebook.com/corazondevidafoundation
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Ryan Jones

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Re: Sound equipment for Pocket Cinema Camera

PostMon Aug 05, 2013 10:10 pm

Andrew Corazon de Vida wrote:Hi, I really appreciate this forum, I'm not a filmmaker but I want to shoot quality promo videos and PSA for the charity I work for. We fund orphanages in Baja, and need to be able to shoot simple testimonials, and fun videos of our orphanage trips, as well as pro quality promo videos and PSA awareness videos.

The pocket cinema camera seems a great option, except that I can't spend more than 2,000 - 2,500 on the whole package.
This is what I have been quoted for by a reseller in Los Angeles:

Pocket Cinema Camera TX Olympus M.ZUIKO - $995
Digital 17mm f TX - $520.00
Watson EN-EL20 Lithium-Ion Bat - $14.99
SanDisk 64GB SDXC Memory Card - $139.00 x 2
Watson Compact AC/DC Charger f - $24.95

Also I'll get a zoom panasonic 14 - 140 lens used for about $550

But no one has said anything about sound?!

As I'll by doing testimonials and capturing live sound, what is my best option? I won't have a crew, it's just me running around a group of about 40 people and up to 90 kids capturing moments to make videos with to promote the experience of visiting and supporting an orphanage!

Or is a Blackmagic pocket camera not the right camera for our needs?

Thank so much for all the help!

Not sure how the in camera sound is but you might want to look at something small like the Rode Videomics. I've got a stereo video mic and its pretty good but in hindsight I probably prefer something more directional, which their mono mics provide.

Not sure if you can assign 3.5mm as ch1 and internal mic as ch2?

Also at that price for the Olympus 17mm you might want to consider the Panny 20mm or the Sigma.
Last edited by Ryan Jones on Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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edanco

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Re: Sound equipment for Pocket Cinema Camera

PostMon Aug 05, 2013 10:12 pm

I just bought a Tascam DR-60D to use with my Pocket Cam when it arrives. My initial tests with the unit were good -- it seems like it'll be a perfect for the Pocket Cam. FYI: I'm also using it to shoot a documentary/interviews as a one-man band, so have similar usage scenarios.
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Andrew Corazon de Vida

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Re: Sound equipment for Pocket Cinema Camera

PostMon Aug 05, 2013 10:49 pm

edanco wrote:I just bought a Tascam DR-60D to use with my Pocket Cam when it arrives. My initial tests with the unit were good -- it seems like it'll be a perfect for the Pocket Cam. FYI: I'm also using it to shoot a documentary/interviews as a one-man band, so have similar usage scenarios.


Thanks, I'll look into that.
Andrew McReynolds
www.facebook.com/corazondevidafoundation
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martisimo

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Re: Sound equipment for Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Aug 06, 2013 1:33 pm

I am saving money for this one:
http://www.zoom.co.jp/products/h6/
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Ned Soltz

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Re: Sound equipment for Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Aug 06, 2013 3:40 pm

I have a SoundDevices MixPre-D with the under-camera bracket. The Tascam DR-60D is a great piece and a pretty phenomenal price. Otherwise, the Wooden Camera dual XLR adapter is compact and can just mount to whatever cage you use with camera. And a less expensive option. The Juicedlink products are another option.

But honestly, I would shoot my EX-1 in that situation.

Ned Soltz
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marktyers

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Re: Sound equipment for Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Aug 06, 2013 6:30 pm

Ryan Jones wrote:
Andrew Corazon de Vida wrote:Hi, I really appreciate this forum, I'm not a filmmaker but I want to shoot quality promo videos and PSA for the charity I work for. We fund orphanages in Baja, and need to be able to shoot simple testimonials, and fun videos of our orphanage trips, as well as pro quality promo videos and PSA awareness videos.

The pocket cinema camera seems a great option, except that I can't spend more than 2,000 - 2,500 on the whole package.
This is what I have been quoted for by a reseller in Los Angeles:

Pocket Cinema Camera TX Olympus M.ZUIKO - $995
Digital 17mm f TX - $520.00
Watson EN-EL20 Lithium-Ion Bat - $14.99
SanDisk 64GB SDXC Memory Card - $139.00 x 2
Watson Compact AC/DC Charger f - $24.95

Also I'll get a zoom panasonic 14 - 140 lens used for about $550

But no one has said anything about sound?!

As I'll by doing testimonials and capturing live sound, what is my best option? I won't have a crew, it's just me running around a group of about 40 people and up to 90 kids capturing moments to make videos with to promote the experience of visiting and supporting an orphanage!

Or is a Blackmagic pocket camera not the right camera for our needs?

Thank so much for all the help!

Not sure how the in camera sound is but you might want to look at something small like the Rode Videomics. I've got a stereo video mic and its pretty good but in hindsight I probably prefer something more directional, which their mono mics provide.

Not sure if you can assign 3.5mm as ch1 and internal mic as ch2?

Also at that price for the Olympus 17mm you might want to consider the Panny 20mm or the Sigma.


I have been doing a lot of interview work currently with a Canon 60D with 50mm f1.4 and record the sound either using a cheap lapel mic plugged into a Zoom H1 or a Rode NTG1 on a boompole plugged into a Tascam DR40. If it is serious run and gun stuff I substitute a Sennheiser MD46 using the DR40. I have just ordered a Tascam DR60-D and a Rode NT5 which will give me all mic bases covered. Will report on how these perform.
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mariapepper

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Re: Sound equipment for Pocket Cinema Camera

PostSat Dec 21, 2013 6:23 am

Not sure how the in camera sound is but you might want to look at something small like the Rode Videomics. I've got a stereo video mic and it’s pretty good but in hindsight I probably prefer something more directional, which their mono mics provide.


home theater installers
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Chris Chiasson

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Re: Sound equipment for Pocket Cinema Camera

PostMon Dec 23, 2013 1:55 am

If you don't care about Raw, you can always go the ProRes route. Especially if you don't have a computer or harddrives for the space for Raw editing. In that case, buy the SanDisk 128GB SDXC Extreme Class 10 UHS-1 Memory Card. It'll allow you over an hour worth of recording ProRes compared to the the 2 64 cards (Separate, you'll get half of that, which together equal the same amount of time when shooting ProRes, and only 40 minutes on Raw). You'll save $50 dollars.

Battery charger you can live without or save for later, since you can charge both batteries before shooting, and use the camera's internal charger when shooting is paused or done. That'll save you $24 dollars. Remember, you can always buy it later.

Digital 17mm f TX you can live without if you're getting a zoom lens that goes from 14-140mm. That'll save you $520. Again, buy what you need now, and buy what makes things more awesome, later. Because the 17 is just a wide angle. You're already getting that with 14mm. The only special thing you might be getting is better lighting indoors and at night, since zooms are pretty dark.

And there you have it. You now have saved $594 dollars. Enough budget for sound stuff.

My recommendation is either the Rode Video Mic Pro, so you can get 20+ gain boosted into your camera. This Mic is usually $250 dollars if you include the Windjammer (which you'll need). Or less if you buy used. Plus maybe another 10 or 20 for the shoe to attach it to the Pocket.

Option 2 would be a Zoom H1. This I recommend more for you, since you'll be doing testimonials. And the best way to do that, is a recorder. A recorder can also be used for post work, like dubbing and recording sounds to be added in. So it's a multipurpose tool for the low budget filmmaker. And using a cable, you can record duel sounds. One recording into the Zoom itself, and into the camera. Allowing you 2 options for which is the better sound, because the two can have separate levels. This, plus a cable, a shoe, another shoe for the pocket to attach it, a windjammer, and headphones, will be $180 dollars.

Also buy a $50 tripod, if you don't have one.

Do this, and you'll save 400 to 350 dollars, and keep things under the $2000 limit.

Again, just buy "what you need". And just upgrade things later overtime. You don't need everything all at once.
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David Jorgensen

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Re: Sound equipment for Pocket Cinema Camera

PostMon Dec 23, 2013 2:06 am

I have been using a Zoom H1 mounted directly on top of the pocket cam for casual shooting. It records good quality sound and is smaller and lighter than a rode videomic. Unfortunately it does pick up noise from handling the camera, but is still much better than the built in mic. I also have a rode videomic pro which does work, but has the same issues as the BMCC when recording sound directly into the camera. It also feels quite large on the BMPCC.

I recently bought the Zoom H6 and am very impressed, both with the 2 included mic modules and as a recorder for the rode videomic pro. I have been using them with the BMCC with very good results. It is a remarkably well built and versatile unit, I highly recommend it.
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Chris Chiasson

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Re: Sound equipment for Pocket Cinema Camera

PostMon Dec 23, 2013 2:25 am

litemakr wrote:I have been using a Zoom H1 mounted directly on top of the pocket cam for casual shooting. It records good quality sound and is smaller and lighter than a rode videomic. Unfortunately it does pick up noise from handling the camera, but is still much better than the built in mic. I also have a rode videomic pro which does work, but has the same issues as the BMCC when recording sound directly into the camera. It also feels quite large on the BMPCC.



Honestly though, when you have the mic mounted directly onto the camera, that kind of noise can't be avoided. The mic is right under your hands when operating after all. It's going to record it, though minor depending on your levels, and how far the mic is. Even a Rode NTG-3 Shotgun mounted on the camera is still going to hear it. The only real solution is to have the mic as far away from the camera as possible, and operated by a boom guy.
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Ryan Jones

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Re: Sound equipment for Pocket Cinema Camera

PostMon Dec 30, 2013 12:34 pm

Just a follow up now that I've been using the camera for a while.

The Rode Stereo VideoMic Pro works fine set to +20, but it's not quite directional enough to be suitable for most shoots.

I've been using my Sennheiser G3 wireless kit with a Rode Lav, and that works OK-ish. The problem is you have to set the gain quite high in the menus on the wireless kit, around 0db I've found, and the volume up on the BMPCC, to get reasonable audio with male voices.

The output quality is sufficient for most talking head/online distribution work IMHO.

The issue I've come across is some female voices just aren't loud enough considering the lack of headroom in this setup.

I'm planning on picking up either the DR-60D mentioned above, or more likely a Zoom H6, to give me the additional headroom and allow me to use my NTG3 without passing it through another camera.
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Frank Glencairn

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Re: Sound equipment for Pocket Cinema Camera

PostMon Dec 30, 2013 1:43 pm

I'm testing a prototype of earbud mics and preamp in the moment, the audio I get is awesome.

Ultimate stealth factor. Everybody thinks you are just an average dude who is listening to his iPod while taking stills with a snap-and-go camera.

Tomorrow a new set of earbuds is coming in with absolutely amazing specs:

Ultra low noise: S/N 82dB (!) at 1 kHz
Freq. +2dB: 5-18.000Hz
max. input: 138 dB S.P.L

Here is a test with the old capsules:

http://frankglencairn.wordpress.com/

I told you so :-)
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David Jorgensen

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Re: Sound equipment for Pocket Cinema Camera

PostMon Dec 30, 2013 4:51 pm

Frank Glencairn wrote:I'm testing a prototype of earbud mics and preamp in the moment, the audio I get is awesome.

Ultimate stealth factor. Everybody thinks you are just an average dude who is listening to his iPod while taking stills with a snap-and-go camera.

Tomorrow a new set of earbuds is coming in with absolutely amazing specs:

Ultra low noise: S/N 82dB (!) at 1 kHz
Freq. +2dB: 5-18.000Hz
max. input: 138 dB S.P.L

Here is a test with the old capsules:



Hi Frank,

Can you provide some more details about your setup? I am very intrigued but not familiar with earbud mics. How does it all work? What kind of preamp?
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Mac Jaeger

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Re: Sound equipment for Pocket Cinema Camera

PostMon Dec 30, 2013 6:13 pm

Frank Glencairn wrote:I'm testing a prototype of earbud mics and preamp in the moment, the audio I get is awesome.

Sounds interesting! I've had some experience with ear-mounted microphones before and was pleased with how natural they reproduce soundscapes; but that was in the last millenium... Please let us know, when this prototype becomes a product!
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Frank Glencairn

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Re: Sound equipment for Pocket Cinema Camera

PostMon Dec 30, 2013 6:20 pm

The new version and the preamp is still all prototypes, but basically they look like earbuds of a MP3 player.
Instead of little speakers they contain very special microphones (military surplus).
It uses a slot at the outside and also the reflection inside of your ear cup via a second opening to record a very natural sounding audio.

You just put them on your ears, plug them in your camera or recorder and that's it.
They work just fine without preamp on any recorder that provides plugin power.

Since the Pocket doesn't provide plugin power, the new version, that I'm testing right now comes with a little battery driven low noise preamp, that goes in your pocket (or elsewhere).

The whole point is max stealth capacity with the pocket cam.

I keep you guys in the loop and also do an article on my blog when we are done testing.

Here is the website of the old model. http://www.fxcinema.de/ohrwurmaudio/
The new generation will have those amazing super low noise capsules and some other changes.
Last edited by Frank Glencairn on Mon Dec 30, 2013 6:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
http://frankglencairn.wordpress.com/

I told you so :-)
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Kofa

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Re: Sound equipment for Pocket Cinema Camera

PostMon Dec 30, 2013 6:24 pm

Did any of you guys read the post?!!!!! Lol. Too many camera nerds on here, ha ha. People on these forums are so ready to pounce on you with information, which is great but sometimes totally miss the point of the question. There's no way I would suggest the pocket cinema camera for you my friend. :o

I love my blackmagic pocket camera to death. More than any camera I have ever owned. But based off your original post, it does not seem like the right choice.

No crew, running around with 40 people and up to 90 kids...means you won't have the luxury of changing batteries every 40 minutes. Getting exposure right, and the crop factor means you can't be close on your subject, even with a standard wide lens. You're going to be trying to capture live events and PSA style videos and I'm guessing you may not have the computer to properly handle these amazingly large files without being frustrated. And you'll need a powerful computer to edit and color grade without pulling your teeth out.
DO NOT GET THIS CAMERA!

Grab a dslr... the best one in your budget. Get a lens with a good focal range and a rode video mic pro.

You can pick up a full frame canon 6D for about $1,200, a good lens for about $600-$800, a rode video mic pro and 2 extra batteries at about $60 a piece. Memory cards are cheaper...$40 for around 32GB. You have the capability of taking amazing stills that I'm sure you'll need with your PSAs and you get a great image straight out of the camera. Files are more manageable and edit with a decent computer will be a breeze.

Trust, unless you're willing to spend hours tweaking an image or swap batteries every 45 mins-hour, do not get this camera.
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Uli Plank

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Re: Sound equipment for Pocket Cinema Camera

PostMon Dec 30, 2013 6:55 pm

Hi Frank,

really looking forward to your test results!

I used such earbud mikes years ago, but never thought of trying them on the BMPCC. You are right, the best stealth factor for that baby. Together with a tiny Cosmicar lens by Pentax nobody will ever take you serious and behave like "Look , mom, I'm on TV" ;-)

Hope the pre-amp does well.

TIA
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Margus Voll

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Re: Sound equipment for Pocket Cinema Camera

PostMon Dec 30, 2013 7:14 pm

misterkofa wrote:[b]Did any of you guys read the post?!!!!! Lol. Too many camera nerds on here, ha ha.

Trust, unless you're willing to spend hours tweaking an image or swap batteries every 45 mins-hour, do not get this camera.


Recordin in prorez is simple and editing is also easy.

You probably will get away also with basic looks in your editor.

For me dslr have so bad compression that i never got one.

Grading dslr stuff is also like a bad dream.
Margus Voll, C.S.I.

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David Jorgensen

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Re: Sound equipment for Pocket Cinema Camera

PostMon Dec 30, 2013 9:22 pm

[quote="misterkofa"][b]Did any of you guys read the post?!!!!! Lol. Too many camera nerds on here, ha ha. [quote]

Oh brother :roll:

Why make rude and unproductive comments and derail what was a good conversation? I guess all of the other helpful posts we all took the time to write should be deleted.
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Chris Chiasson

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Re: Sound equipment for Pocket Cinema Camera

PostWed Jan 01, 2014 1:45 am

Frank Glencairn wrote:I'm testing a prototype of earbud mics and preamp in the moment, the audio I get is awesome.

Ultimate stealth factor. Everybody thinks you are just an average dude who is listening to his iPod while taking stills with a snap-and-go camera.

Tomorrow a new set of earbuds is coming in with absolutely amazing specs:

Ultra low noise: S/N 82dB (!) at 1 kHz
Freq. +2dB: 5-18.000Hz
max. input: 138 dB S.P.L

Here is a test with the old capsules:



Sounds pretty good. The only real issue I can find is that I can hear your breathing, but like you said, this is more of a stealth option. I'd imagine you'd try to be more quiet during shots you're trying to grab.

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