(BMPCC4k) lens recommendations ?

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TheChemicalWorkshop

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(BMPCC4k) lens recommendations ?

PostMon Mar 09, 2020 4:23 pm

Soon i'll be ordering BMPCC 4k and bunch of other stuff (cage, batteries, charger, mount, etc.)

we are highly aware that lens prices are stable and camera bodies drop fast. but dropping 1200€ on 1-3 lenses is way too much for someone that makes 0€ out of it.

my budget is about 500€, preferably 400€.
i was thinking about grabbing the viltrox adapter and using bunch of Ebay canon glass, advantage being EF lenses don't drop in value a lot and there are a lot of good used lenses. But considering that the speedbooster costs 150€ and so far i'm not impressed with the quality from any video i saw (very soft looking) paired that with cheap glass, sounds like disaster for me.

Metabones is out because of cost unless someone wants to gift me one on Easter.

Jokes aside, i think going native MFT is best pick for me ?

Stuff i record include: Travel, Chemistry/Workshop/"Studio", b-roll with products/chemicals/fun
Stuff i don't record : Vlogging/recording myself

I don't mind buying 2nd hand, but i need to be able to find that in Germany, i was mostly looking at Meike brand but from what i see all of them are primes, for chemistry and workshop i can switch lenses, but for travel and going outside it's pain for me.
So zoom-able lens is best pick for me, but zoom-able and prime combo also sounds good, bonus points if i can get cheap adapter and reverse it for macro shots.
OIS would be good but not strictly needed, automatic focus gives me no advantage nor disadvantage

I know people here have way way more experience in camera field than i do
i need max 3 lenses anyways. was thinking about a 400€ zoom lens and vintage prime (or something) but can't find anything in that price range (or there is too much)

And yes i'm aware it's cinema camera where most people rig it up like red or arri (with 1k€+ lenses), but i need RAW, resolve studio and good quality for my hobbies/free time

any ideas for good value on Allrounder a hobbiest can get?
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Iain Bason

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Re: (BMPCC4k) lens recommendations ?

PostSat Mar 14, 2020 5:03 pm

I'd suggest starting out with just the camera (no cage or anything except maybe some genuine lp-e6 batteries), and pick up an inexpensive used Olympus zoom. Then use it for a while and see what you think would make your experience better.

I love expensive lenses as much as the next guy, but you can actually get some great images out of inexpensive "kit" lenses as well. Good lighting is probably going to make more of a difference than a good lens.
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Re: (BMPCC4k) lens recommendations ?

PostSun Mar 15, 2020 12:13 am

I’d like to second what Iain is saying. Have a look at this ProAV video about the Blackmagic 4K. ProAV is an important UK vendor of professional gear, and I’m not seeing a lot of accessories in this video apart from a camera strap. The video even fits in with your interest in using the camera for travel:



Also, here is filmmaker Tom Antos on “battery solutions” for the camera. Watch what he says starting at 08:35. After going through lots of options, he winds up concluding that he prefers to use the Canon LP-E6 batteries:



One thing that you are going to need is either a variable neutral density filter or individual ND filters in basic strengths.
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Jack Stall

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Re: (BMPCC4k) lens recommendations ?

PostSun Mar 15, 2020 6:54 am

Since you want to know what lens to buy:

olympus 12-40 f2.8 pro

thats one great lens for this camera. I have one, price is like $850 but you can buy used for around $500.
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TheChemicalWorkshop

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Re: (BMPCC4k) lens recommendations ?

PostSun Mar 15, 2020 11:15 am

Iain Bason wrote:I'd suggest starting out with just the camera (no cage or anything except maybe some genuine lp-e6 batteries), and pick up an inexpensive used Olympus zoom. Then use it for a while and see what you think would make your experience better.

I love expensive lenses as much as the next guy, but you can actually get some great images out of inexpensive "kit" lenses as well. Good lighting is probably going to make more of a difference than a good lens.


Hi, I need a cage for mounting my battery solution and ssd anyways, lp-e6 looks like money pit to me (i'll be using 18650's)
Olympus zoom?, hmm thanks i'll look what ebay can offer

I can control lightning indoors (kinda) but outside i need the lens to be flexible...

robedge wrote:I’d like to second what Iain is saying. Have a look at this ProAV video about the Blackmagic 4K. ProAV is an important UK vendor of professional gear, and I’m not seeing a lot of accessories in this video apart from a camera strap. The video even fits in with your interest in using the camera for travel:



Also, here is filmmaker Tom Antos on “battery solutions” for the camera. Watch what he says starting at 08:35. After going through lots of options, he winds up concluding that he prefers to use the Canon LP-E6 batteries:



One thing that you are going to need is either a variable neutral density filter or individual ND filters in basic strengths.


i know, and i don't want too many accessories, just ssd(fits my workflow), strap, cage, maybe a handle and a battery(in process of designing), don't want any shoulder rigs or bulky stuff, might get moza air 2 one day. so i'm going half rigged up way

I know Tom Antos' battery solutions and other for long time as i researched this topic.
I could use:
- V mount (too big and expensive)
- powerbank (most are kinda long and price is ok)
- lp-e6 batteries (shutting off camera and changing it etc is just pain to me in any device)
- anything with plate and adapter (bulky, some are cheap)

So me and my team are finishing designs for custom power solution, will be about 10x10x5cm (in process of making smaller) and will offer me a price of about 50€ for hardware and 40€ for 100WH (i'll release plans to the public after i'm done)
Essentially adding capacity will be cheap for me, not to mind reusing my old batteries

didn't think about ND filters, thanks, i'll think of few ones that don't break my budget

Jack Stall wrote:Since you want to know what lens to buy:

olympus 12-40 f2.8 pro

thats one great lens for this camera. I have one, price is like $850 but you can buy used for around $500.


nice thanks i'll see what ebay can offer, but more options would be better
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Re: (BMPCC4k) lens recommendations ?

PostSun Mar 15, 2020 11:45 am

Save and spend a bit more and get the OL 12-100 as it has a very effective IS which the 12-40 doesn't and makes it a more flexible shooting package that allows handheld use ( you may not need a gimbal even). Rigging this camera with a cage for external batteries and HD's is the only solution for doing long takes in a static 'on set' setup but a real PITA when you just want to shoot more casually and intuitively. I have several ext battery setups but most of the time I shoot with a set of LP-E6's which are quick and easy to swop out between takes esp if you remove the battery door. The only reason I have a cage (actually 1/2 cage) is that it offers a more solid mount with heavier lenses on a tripod. One thing I learnt for all video cameras is that it's easy to get carried away on the whole 'rig' thing but the reality is for most practical shooting situations simple is best. Yes you will need ND filtering but unless you can budget / afford the expensive ones that have coated glass and don't introduce variable color casts with density you are better off getting a set of fixed density filters.
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Francisco Bartolomé

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Re: (BMPCC4k) lens recommendations ?

PostSun Mar 15, 2020 12:40 pm

I have a "Panasonic Leica DG H-ES12060 f2.8-4.0 12-60mm" lens and I am very happy.
It has two problems: changing the zoom changes the aperture, and manual focus is difficult.

I also have a fixed ND filter to shoot extremely bright outdoors. I decided to buy Gobe ND16 for 62mm and it works great and doesn't color the picture.

I wish you enjoy your new camera very much
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Re: (BMPCC4k) lens recommendations ?

PostSun Mar 15, 2020 3:53 pm

John Griffin wrote:Save and spend a bit more and get the OL 12-100 as it has a very effective IS which the 12-40 doesn't and makes it a more flexible shooting package that allows handheld use ( you may not need a gimbal even). Rigging this camera with a cage for external batteries and HD's is the only solution for doing long takes in a static 'on set' setup but a real PITA when you just want to shoot more casually and intuitively. I have several ext battery setups but most of the time I shoot with a set of LP-E6's which are quick and easy to swop out between takes esp if you remove the battery door. The only reason I have a cage (actually 1/2 cage) is that it offers a more solid mount with heavier lenses on a tripod. One thing I learnt for all video cameras is that it's easy to get carried away on the whole 'rig' thing but the reality is for most practical shooting situations simple is best. Yes you will need ND filtering but unless you can budget / afford the expensive ones that have coated glass and don't introduce variable color casts with density you are better off getting a set of fixed density filters.


saving is hard, as a student especially (but i'll see if maybe i can get it used or smth)

thanks, yeah i was thinking about getting rail system in the start but i don't really need big and bulky camera, not to mind it's flashy asf
I don't want to use the lp-e6 batteries for many reasons so i'm going custom route (it's cheaper anyways) as for cage, i was thinking about skipping it, but in the future i can add features myself (with 3d printing, electronics etc) also can't skip on ssd
still thinking if to get a top handle or not, there is one on good deal...

i was thinking about gimbal if i found one on deal, so rn it's not in the plans

ND filters i'll have to think of smth, also people scream on forums about IR cut? do i really need it?

also i'm planning on getting xrite passport thingy, i need a way to color calibrate cthe footage sometimes, i had these cards once and they didn't last long, but 135€ on this is a lot, so still looking for alternative

Francisco Bartolomé wrote:I have a "Panasonic Leica DG H-ES12060 f2.8-4.0 12-60mm" lens and I am very happy.
It has two problems: changing the zoom changes the aperture, and manual focus is difficult.

I also have a fixed ND filter to shoot extremely bright outdoors. I decided to buy Gobe ND16 for 62mm and it works great and doesn't color the picture.

I wish you enjoy your new camera very much


ok these 2 problems seem like nono for me, i want to be able to zoom in and out sometimes, then i better go with primes honestly...
i'll have to go manual all time (which wasn't even a deal for me)

the ND filter is let's say 30€, i would prob get 2 maybe 3, that will come last anyways, 30€ isn't hard to spend few months later

Thanks, the quality camera can put out is more than i need, so just gotta pick best stuff arround it to maximize Performance for my money

if i wanted to go with primes, 2 or 3, what could i get for 400-500€ ?
are zooms really that much more pricey?
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rick.lang

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Re: (BMPCC4k) lens recommendations ?

PostSun Mar 15, 2020 4:17 pm

Remember, if you use a top handle, you must use some form of a cage (could be a half cage or a full cage) because you’ll void your warranty if you carry the camera with a top handle screwed directly to the top mounting point. The body is not strong enough at that point to support the load that some people will put on the camera.

I use a full cage with a fully rigged camera including top handle, large lens, rails, matte box, and external monitor etc without issues.
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Re: (BMPCC4k) lens recommendations ?

PostSun Mar 15, 2020 4:21 pm

rick.lang wrote:Remember, if you use a top handle, you must use some form of a cage (could be a half cage or a full cage) because you’ll void your warranty if you carry the camera with a top handle screwed directly to the top mounting point. The body is not strong enough at that point to support the load that some people will put on the camera.

I use a full cage with a fully rigged camera including top handle, large lens, rails, matte box, and external monitor etc without issues.


I need cage anyways, also just top handle would be bit dangerous without cage...

I'm getting full cage (smallrig) with ssd mount and custom battery solution, still which lens to pick is my biggest dilemma
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Re: (BMPCC4k) lens recommendations ?

PostSun Mar 15, 2020 4:31 pm

TheChemicalWorkshop wrote:still thinking if to get a top handle or not, there is one on good deal...

...

ND filters i'll have to think of smth, also people scream on forums about IR cut? do i really need it?

...

also i'm planning on getting xrite passport thingy, i need a way to color calibrate cthe footage sometimes, i had these cards once and they didn't last long, but 135€ on this is a lot, so still looking for alternative

...

the ND filter is let's say 30€, i would prob get 2 maybe 3, that will come last anyways, 30€ isn't hard to spend few months later


You should read what Blackmagic says in the owner’s manual about the strength of the 1/4”-20 thread at the top of the camera. People who want to use a top handle with this camera purchase a cage or half cage as a result.

Opinions on IR cut vary. John Brawley, who knows that he’s talking about, expressed a view recently. A search should track down his comment. If I recall (I stand to be corrected), you shouldn’t worry below about six stops of ND.

You don’t need an X-Rite. You just need a white balance card.

You are unlikely to find an ND filter for €30, even second hand, that is worth putting on your lens. There is no point in spending money on a good lens only to put a cheap ND filter on it. In your case, a good variable ND filter may be the most economic option. You may find this video, although it doesn’t deal with variable filters specifically, helpful. It does give a reasonable idea of what brands are good and which ones should be avoided:

Last edited by robedge on Sun Mar 15, 2020 4:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: (BMPCC4k) lens recommendations ?

PostSun Mar 15, 2020 4:31 pm

Selecting lenses is the hardest thing to do when you’re starting out with a new camera with a new mount (mFT). I think it best you start relatively small and can grow big over time as budget permits and your own requirements grow.

Glad you’re comfortable with primes versus zooms. If you had the budget for the Olympus 12-100mm f/4 that was suggested, you may find that meets all your current requirements for a year or longer. However a few prime lenses can cost less but they may not be as convenient as a quality wide-to-telephoto zoom. If money is too tight, use two or theee small normal primes in the beginning.

Strictly speaking, that excellent Olympus 12-100mm zoom isn’t parfocal meaning that when you zoom, your subject may go out of focus. I prefer to call photo zoom lenses “variable primes” as they are easy to change focal length in an instant but not while zooming in and out if you are recording video continuously.
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Re: (BMPCC4k) lens recommendations ?

PostSun Mar 15, 2020 4:40 pm

robedge wrote:
TheChemicalWorkshop wrote:
You are unlikely to find an ND filter for €30, even second hand, that is worth putting on your lens. There is no point in spending money on a good lens only to put a cheap ND filter on it. In your case, a good variable ND filter may be the most economic option.


Any cheap ND filter will work OK and the differences between the cheap and expensive are not that great but on the other hand cheap Vario ND's are almost all junk and the difference when you buy an expensive one like the Heliopan or B+W is significant. In quality terms you need to by an expensive Vario ND to perform as well as a cheap fixed ND. Vario ND's are for speed and convenience only. You pay the extra not to compromise on the quality compare to fixed ND's.
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Re: (BMPCC4k) lens recommendations ?

PostSun Mar 15, 2020 5:39 pm

rick.lang wrote:Selecting lenses is the hardest thing to do when you’re starting out with a new camera with a new mount (mFT). I think it best you start relatively small and can grow big over time as budget permits and your own requirements grow.

Glad you’re comfortable with primes versus zooms. If you had the budget for the Olympus 12-100mm f/4 that was suggested, you may find that meets all your current requirements for a year or longer. However a few prime lenses can cost less but they may not be as convenient as a quality wide-to-telephoto zoom. If money is too tight, use two or theee small normal primes in the beginning.

Strictly speaking, that excellent Olympus 12-100mm zoom isn’t parfocal meaning that when you zoom, your subject may go out of focus. I prefer to call photo zoom lenses “variable primes” as they are easy to change focal length in an instant but not while zooming in and out if you are recording video continuously.


well, as a student i don't think my budget will increase, i'm fine with buying smth for 100 or 200€ in few years once, or maybe an adapter for 30€ in few months
i am aware that cameras and gear are expensive and people upgrade all time, i just want a solid tool that works in most of my cases. I make 0 money from what i do with my gear so i try to invest good money for good time

i looked up the Olympus 12-100mm is pricey, i don't mind non parfocal, i'm fine with readjusting. i don't plan to zoom in and out in a video all the time, it's just convince. well i might go with primes, might hate myself for that later...

robedge wrote:
TheChemicalWorkshop wrote:still thinking if to get a top handle or not, there is one on good deal...

...

ND filters i'll have to think of smth, also people scream on forums about IR cut? do i really need it?

...

also i'm planning on getting xrite passport thingy, i need a way to color calibrate cthe footage sometimes, i had these cards once and they didn't last long, but 135€ on this is a lot, so still looking for alternative

...

the ND filter is let's say 30€, i would prob get 2 maybe 3, that will come last anyways, 30€ isn't hard to spend few months later


You should read what Blackmagic says in the owner’s manual about the strength of the 1/4”-20 thread at the top of the camera. People who want to use a top handle with this camera purchase a cage or half cage as a result.

Opinions on IR cut vary. John Brawley, who knows that he’s talking about, expressed a view recently. A search should track down his comment. If I recall (I stand to be corrected), you shouldn’t worry below about six stops of ND.

You don’t need an X-Rite. You just need a white balance card.

You are unlikely to find an ND filter for €30, even second hand, that is worth putting on your lens. There is no point in spending money on a good lens only to put a cheap ND filter on it. In your case, a good variable ND filter may be the most economic option. You may find this video, although it doesn’t deal with variable filters specifically, helpful. It does give a reasonable idea of what brands are good and which ones should be avoided:



I'm going with full cage either way, as for top handle (attached to cage), not sure yet.

hmm, yeah the idea of IR cut seems weird anyways, most sensors have that built in as far as i know, and 6 stops is a lot

I unfortunately need more than just a white balance card :( (we have some projects where calibrating all gear to same color is needed... (hard and long to explain)) so i'm thinking if to grab the xrite passport or just a normal color calibration chart which is way cheaper (and risk destroying next one...)

ok, i took a look at the video and some look unusable. usually when i buy gear i check Reviews/company. 100€ for 1 good(not even "pro") filter really is expensive...

John Griffin wrote:
robedge wrote:
TheChemicalWorkshop wrote:
You are unlikely to find an ND filter for €30, even second hand, that is worth putting on your lens. There is no point in spending money on a good lens only to put a cheap ND filter on it. In your case, a good variable ND filter may be the most economic option.


Any cheap ND filter will work OK and the differences between the cheap and expensive are not that great but on the other hand cheap Vario ND's are almost all junk and the difference when you buy an expensive one like the Heliopan or B+W is significant. In quality terms you need to by an expensive Vario ND to perform as well as a cheap fixed ND. Vario ND's are for speed and convenience only. You pay the extra not to compromise on the quality compare to fixed ND's.


now i'm bit confused about the ND filters, i don't really need variable... does not look like it's worth the price for me.

so i think i'm better off with primes, can i get 2 or 3 good ones for 400-500€? if so which ones
googling around i can't find much

as for ND filters didn't know 30€ ones produce images that trash... but then some people say they don't? i'm confused, can someone clear it all up and make a good cheap recommendation? 3 stops or 5 stops, prob 2 ND filters for most tasks.
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Re: (BMPCC4k) lens recommendations ?

PostSun Mar 15, 2020 5:52 pm

John Griffin wrote:Any cheap ND filter will work OK and the differences between the cheap and expensive are not that great but on the other hand cheap Vario ND's are almost all junk and the difference when you buy an expensive one like the Heliopan or B+W is significant. In quality terms you need to by an expensive Vario ND to perform as well as a cheap fixed ND. Vario ND's are for speed and convenience only. You pay the extra not to compromise on the quality compare to fixed ND's.


I’m not going to get into an argument about this, but there is plenty of evidence on the internet that cheap ND filters are not OK. As the original poster says correctly, having looked at Matt Granger’s video “i took a look at the video and some look unusable.”

I don’t use variable ND filters, but it is just a fact that purchasing one is cheaper than buying 2, 3 and 6 stop filters of equal quality. Indeed, I purchased individual ND filters for my Pocket 4K despite knowing that buying a variable filter by the same maker (B+W, since you mention it) would be less expensive. The current B&H price of 82mm B+W XS-Pro individual 2, 3 and 6 stop ND filters is US$465 :) I’m not a fan of variable ND filters, but the poster is looking to save money and there are plenty of people who think that variable filters are working for them.
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Re: (BMPCC4k) lens recommendations ?

PostSun Mar 15, 2020 7:10 pm

That youtube video is a joke.
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Re: (BMPCC4k) lens recommendations ?

PostSun Mar 15, 2020 8:09 pm

robedge wrote:
John Griffin wrote:Any cheap ND filter will work OK and the differences between the cheap and expensive are not that great but on the other hand cheap Vario ND's are almost all junk and the difference when you buy an expensive one like the Heliopan or B+W is significant. In quality terms you need to by an expensive Vario ND to perform as well as a cheap fixed ND. Vario ND's are for speed and convenience only. You pay the extra not to compromise on the quality compare to fixed ND's.


I’m not going to get into an argument about this, but there is plenty of evidence on the internet that cheap ND filters are not OK. As the original poster says correctly, having looked at Matt Granger’s video “i took a look at the video and some look unusable.”

I don’t use variable ND filters, but it is just a fact that purchasing one is cheaper than buying 2, 3 and 6 stop filters of equal quality. Indeed, I purchased individual ND filters for my Pocket 4K despite knowing that buying a variable filter by the same maker (B+W, since you mention it) would be less expensive. The current B&H price of 82mm B+W XS-Pro individual 2, 3 and 6 stop ND filters is US$465 :) I’m not a fan of variable ND filters, but the poster is looking to save money and there are plenty of people who think that variable filters are working for them.

John Griffin wrote:That youtube video is a joke.


well..., let's leave out the ND filter for now, i'll worry later (also not the topic of my post)

can i get good lens recommendations? maybe 2-3 primes for 400-500€?
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Re: (BMPCC4k) lens recommendations ?

PostSun Mar 15, 2020 8:19 pm

Get a used OL 12-40 - you won’t get a 3 primes that cover that range for that budget that also have the same quality.
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Re: (BMPCC4k) lens recommendations ?

PostMon Mar 16, 2020 1:44 am

Of course, you can get some good vintage primes for that amount!

Have a look at Minolta Rokkors, Olympus Zuiko, Pentax Takumar, Canon FD or Yashica C/Y lenses. Their manual focus, some even with pretty long focus throw, is perfect for filming.

One starting point might be www.vintagelensesforvideo.com.
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Re: (BMPCC4k) lens recommendations ?

PostMon Mar 16, 2020 1:47 am

Uli Plank wrote:Of course, you can get some good vintage primes for that amount!

Have a look at Minolta Rokkors, Olympus Zuiko, Pentax Takumar, Canon FD or Yashica C/Y lenses. Their manual focus, some even with pretty long focus throw, is perfect for filming.

One starting point might be http://www.vintagelensesforvideo.com.


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Re: (BMPCC4k) lens recommendations ?

PostMon Mar 16, 2020 6:29 am

Uli Plank wrote:Of course, you can get some good vintage primes for that amount!

Have a look at Minolta Rokkors, Olympus Zuiko, Pentax Takumar, Canon FD or Yashica C/Y lenses. Their manual focus, some even with pretty long focus throw, is perfect for filming.

One starting point might be http://www.vintagelensesforvideo.com.

Which 12mm 2.8 vintage primes exactly?
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Re: (BMPCC4k) lens recommendations ?

PostMon Mar 16, 2020 11:59 am

The TO didn't mention what would be his needs on the wide end.
OK, the widest you get for a decent price is 17mm.
But we are talking FF here, so a second-hand focal reducer might be an option.

Another option is going S-16 if he doesn't desperately need 4K, I have a wonderful 10mm Cinegon I love dearly.
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Re: (BMPCC4k) lens recommendations ?

PostThu Mar 26, 2020 6:02 pm

John Griffin wrote:Get a used OL 12-40 - you won’t get a 3 primes that cover that range for that budget that also have the same quality.

Found one or two for 500 used..., i'll check rewievs and see, 500€ is a lot of money so i gotta make sure i spent it right.

Uli Plank wrote:Of course, you can get some good vintage primes for that amount!

Have a look at Minolta Rokkors, Olympus Zuiko, Pentax Takumar, Canon FD or Yashica C/Y lenses. Their manual focus, some even with pretty long focus throw, is perfect for filming.

One starting point might be http://www.vintagelensesforvideo.com.

hmm thanks, stuff on the site seems expensive...., i'll check what i can find from these companies, but ebay and used is always sketchy for me

Uli Plank wrote:The TO didn't mention what would be his needs on the wide end.
OK, the widest you get for a decent price is 17mm.
But we are talking FF here, so a second-hand focal reducer might be an option.

Another option is going S-16 if he doesn't desperately need 4K, I have a wonderful 10mm Cinegon I love dearly.


2nd hand speedboster would be good idea... but can't find any :( not to mind it's still notz gonna be cheap

i unfortunately need 4k, might scale down(zoom etc) and export as 1080p, but i expect mostly recording in 4kDCI/UHD and exporting in UHD/FHD

Stil looking for smth "perfect", maybe spending money on "cheap" (i.e. viltrox) speedbooster and then just slap any canon lens i can get hands on...
not sure what would be best for my small budget and my big requirement
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Re: (BMPCC4k) lens recommendations ?

PostFri Mar 27, 2020 9:44 am

If you need to deliver 4K /UHD then the P4k may not be the best choice as it’s sampling at 1:1 without an OLPF and depending on your subject matter you may find it lacks the resolution and has moire and aliasing issues. It’s a great choice for 2k / HD though. For clean 4K you are best off with a 6k sensor that sub samples down.
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Re: (BMPCC4k) lens recommendations ?

PostFri Mar 27, 2020 1:23 pm

John Griffin wrote:If you need to deliver 4K /UHD then the P4k may not be the best choice as it’s sampling at 1:1 without an OLPF and depending on your subject matter you may find it lacks the resolution and has moire and aliasing issues. It’s a great choice for 2k / HD though. For clean 4K you are best off with a 6k sensor that sub samples down.


Yes you are right, but it's good enough for my purpose, if i had 1000 bucks more, i would get it tho and just slap any OK Canon Glass
Would be bulkier but oh well, future proof
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Re: (BMPCC4k) lens recommendations ?

PostFri Mar 27, 2020 9:13 pm

Have you considered cameras other than the P4K? On a budget the GH5 is still a very good camera for instance.....
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Re: (BMPCC4k) lens recommendations ?

PostSat Mar 28, 2020 1:42 am

John Griffin wrote:Have you considered cameras other than the P4K? On a budget the GH5 is still a very good camera for instance.....

yes i did consider the GH5/s, didnt like it (from rewievs), follow AF and flip out screen is nice but that's all it offers for me
i like working with RAW, i like davinci resolve and the company that does it all. 12 bit raw is very usefull for me, don't plan to use it like point and shoot anyways. i'm used to manual focus/settings.

i need good and cheap lens/es or 6k model/speedbooster on crazy sale

still overwhelmed with all lenses and adapters, usually i was borrowing canon cameras from friends so i just tried out every lens they have and lookes what feels best, can't do that now. quality is one, but feel is other, pulling manual focus with crappy gear isn't worth it for little better glass, so i just need good balance, ideas? thinking about viltrox speedbooster but all footage i saw from it looks kinda crap to me (if compared to metabones = big difference on same lens)
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Re: (BMPCC4k) lens recommendations ?

PostSat Mar 28, 2020 3:04 am

Take a look at Aputure's DEC Lensregain. It supplies power to an EF/EF-S lens so the IS works. It has an optical quality better than Viltrox and on vintage lenses that have low contrast, the coatings it has improves focusing visibility. Some say the quality is on a par with the pre-BMPCC 4K Speed Booster. It can be used by a focus puller for a gimbal setup through it's wireless controller that also controls the f-stop. Best of all, it's dirt cheap at 138 Euros!
https://eu.aputure.com/products/dec-len ... 0433630251

I have posted several examples on the BM Cinematography forum.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=98383&p=546035&hilit=Berkeley+garage#p546035

Unfortunately, there are no contacts to communicate with the BMPCC 4K's touch autofocus though. That is not continuous auto focus anyway, so it's not a big loss.
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Re: (BMPCC4k) lens recommendations ?

PostSat Mar 28, 2020 7:17 am

TheChemicalWorkshop wrote:
John Griffin wrote:Have you considered cameras other than the P4K? On a budget the GH5 is still a very good camera for instance.....

yes i did consider the GH5/s, didnt like it (from rewievs), follow AF and flip out screen is nice but that's all it offers for me
i like working with RAW, i like davinci resolve and the company that does it all. 12 bit raw is very usefull for me, don't plan to use it like point and shoot anyways. i'm used to manual focus/settings.

i need good and cheap lens/es or 6k model/speedbooster on crazy sale

still overwhelmed with all lenses and adapters, usually i was borrowing canon cameras from friends so i just tried out every lens they have and lookes what feels best, can't do that now. quality is one, but feel is other, pulling manual focus with crappy gear isn't worth it for little better glass, so i just need good balance, ideas? thinking about viltrox speedbooster but all footage i saw from it looks kinda crap to me (if compared to metabones = big difference on same lens)

What didn’t you like exactly from the reviews? BRAW isn’t a miracle BTW and HLG or V-LOG on the GH5 when you expose and WB it correctly is very good. I have a viltrox and a metabones and I don’t see any practical optical differences. The only major difference is the AF and IS function but if you value the MF action over optical qualities you will probably want the cine version of the metabones with the locking ring so you don’t get the backlash when changing focus direction. If you want to go wide with lenses that have good MF action on a P4k then even a speed booster isn’t going to go very wide. Have you looked at the full frame Lumix S1 as you can use cheap old MF lenses without the need for a speed booster adapter. From everything you have said and considering your budget I’m not convinced the P4k is the right camera for you.....
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Re: (BMPCC4k) lens recommendations ?

PostSat Mar 28, 2020 4:15 pm

dondidnod wrote:Take a look at Aputure's DEC Lensregain. It supplies power to an EF/EF-S lens so the IS works. It has an optical quality better than Viltrox and on vintage lenses that have low contrast, the coatings it has improves focusing visibility. Some say the quality is on a par with the pre-BMPCC 4K Speed Booster. It can be used by a focus puller for a gimbal setup through it's wireless controller that also controls the f-stop. Best of all, it's dirt cheap at 138 Euros!
https://eu.aputure.com/products/dec-len ... 0433630251

I have posted several examples on the BM Cinematography forum.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=98383&p=546035&hilit=Berkeley+garage#p546035

Unfortunately, there are no contacts to communicate with the BMPCC 4K's touch autofocus though. That is not continuous auto focus anyway, so it's not a big loss.


I don't understand this product, so it's like speedbooster with focus puller built in?
tell me more, looks good

John Griffin wrote:
TheChemicalWorkshop wrote:
John Griffin wrote:Have you considered cameras other than the P4K? On a budget the GH5 is still a very good camera for instance.....

yes i did consider the GH5/s, didnt like it (from rewievs), follow AF and flip out screen is nice but that's all it offers for me
i like working with RAW, i like davinci resolve and the company that does it all. 12 bit raw is very usefull for me, don't plan to use it like point and shoot anyways. i'm used to manual focus/settings.

i need good and cheap lens/es or 6k model/speedbooster on crazy sale

still overwhelmed with all lenses and adapters, usually i was borrowing canon cameras from friends so i just tried out every lens they have and lookes what feels best, can't do that now. quality is one, but feel is other, pulling manual focus with crappy gear isn't worth it for little better glass, so i just need good balance, ideas? thinking about viltrox speedbooster but all footage i saw from it looks kinda crap to me (if compared to metabones = big difference on same lens)

What didn’t you like exactly from the reviews? BRAW isn’t a miracle BTW and HLG or V-LOG on the GH5 when you expose and WB it correctly is very good. I have a viltrox and a metabones and I don’t see any practical optical differences. The only major difference is the AF and IS function but if you value the MF action over optical qualities you will probably want the cine version of the metabones with the locking ring so you don’t get the backlash when changing focus direction. If you want to go wide with lenses that have good MF action on a P4k then even a speed booster isn’t going to go very wide. Have you looked at the full frame Lumix S1 as you can use cheap old MF lenses without the need for a speed booster adapter. From everything you have said and considering your budget I’m not convinced the P4k is the right camera for you.....


full frame Lumix S1 looks too expensive, i only compared gh5/s and p4/6k, started comparing and saving for it once p4k came out. so i have no idea about full frame Lumix S1

V--log on gh5 ofc can look good, but i like the flexibility of raw files, i always tweak my files after shoot for hours, the more data i can play with the better.
Looking at youtube rewievs and comparison (i looked at a looot of videos) viltrox seems always soft on the edges. when i pixel peek it looks even worse (i have 1080p display), i'm considering viltrox speedboster for price but still not sure... don't like it from what i seen about it so far.
about gh5s, the price is way higher, cant record to ssd/usb, had bad experience with panasonic 10 years ago (lol), lower bitrate than p4k, also i like the possibility of rigging p4k out out in the future (i can make and design stuff myself) and no davinci studio included. won't trade all/part that for autofocus i might use once a while and for flip out screen (which p4k lacks unfortunately)

my budget is low, and honestly no camera will fit anyone 100%, for me at least p4/6k + my phone is best what i can get for now. might be able to get more things on deals.

currently my biggest issue is lens/adapter, rn looking at the DEC LensRegain to understand if it can be used and what it does. already solved out cage, ssd and battery (cheap as dirt) still need to worry about, deal on the camera, case, cables, ND filer, strap, color chart (i need one for chemistry/science so considering xrite passport (convinience)) and mount for battery
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Re: (BMPCC4k) lens recommendations ?

PostSat Mar 28, 2020 5:48 pm

Good luck.
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Re: (BMPCC4k) lens recommendations ?

PostSat Mar 28, 2020 9:20 pm

TheChemicalWorkshop wrote:I don't understand this product, so it's like speedbooster with focus puller built in?
tell me more, looks good

Yes, it's a focal reducer (ie, Metabones Speed Booster) with a built-in follow focus that a focus puller can use.

Here is a sharpness comparison of the DEC Lensregain and the Metabones Speed Booster:

Quick Aputure DEC LensRegain vs Metabones Speedbooster S Version Test 4K GH4 Xeen version cinema prime


This is another Metabones comparison that also shows the operation of the Lensregain:

The genius speedbooster [Aputure DEC LensRegain]


It comes with a pelican quality case that is worth half it's cost.

With some extra hardware I mount the hand controller to the right side of my Smallrig full cage. I am able to use the it's WiFi controller handle on my Smallrig full 2203 cage with the addition of a NICEYRIG NATO Clamp with Nato Rail Quick Release Plate, a SmallRig Handgrip Rosette Adapter for Sony FS7 and a rubber grommet. I can easily set A and B focus stops and have a variable speed control for rack focus while filming, plus, I can control the iris in real time while I move from dark to light environments. The addition of a CAMVATE Camera Handle Stabilizer (Left Hand) DSLR Cage Wooden Handle on the left side and a Canon IS lens makes for a very stable rig while moving. With the NATO clamps, the handles break down in seconds. I find that if you hold a camera stationary then having two handles is more stable when your arms get tired. I also use a z shaped offset raiser clamp to extend the rig to a foam shoulder pad using 15mm rods for a 3 point support.

The fit of the transmitter is a little tight against my Smallrig Samsung T5 mount however. When using it with an adapted fully manual lens, you can leave off the transmitter and receiver. I regularly use full frame M39, M42 and Olympus OM lenses with it:

Re: Is there a chance to ever see an Anamorphic mode on BMPCC4K?
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=93391&p=566616&hilit=2.6k+Vormax+28mm#p566616

Re: need sharp m42 lens
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=95201&p=528634&hilit=+Mir+1+#p528634
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Re: (BMPCC4k) lens recommendations ?

PostSat Mar 28, 2020 11:20 pm

John Griffin wrote:I have a viltrox and a metabones and I don’t see any practical optical differences.

I have to admit I have not tested the Viltrox adapter against the DEC Lensregain. I was just repeating what I heard on the internet for what it's worth. I'm glad that you are happy with your Viltrox adapter. Maybe the differences are less apparent.

JohnG311 said: "I own the metabones speedbooster, viltrox, and lens regain. If your only concern is image quality, only the most intensive pixel peepers are going to be able to find a difference. And if you put them under a blind test, even fewer would be able to tell them apart. If I was forced to make a definitive statement on quality, I’d say it falls somewhere between the metabones and viltrox options."

How is the Aputure DEC LensRegain for the Pocket 4K?
https://amp.reddit.com/r/bmpcc/comments ... he_pocket/

The fact that the DEC Lensregain uses a 0.75x instead of a 0.71x reduction means that a lens that does not fully cover the sensor at a wide angle is less likely to vignette.

Rick Lang said: "The Sigma 18-35mm Zoom for stills camera is described as APS-C only ...At 18mm there may be a slight vignette but others say it’s fine. So let’s agree the 18-35mm covers Super 35. But it doesn’t cover any larger area.

Ultra with the BMPCC4K:
0.71x1.9x = 1.349x Super 35 lens will vignette shooting DCI 4K; full frame lens required.

0.71x2.025x = 1.438 Super 35 lens may slightly vignette shooting in an UHD window."

Re: BMPCC4K - Metabones Speedbooster
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=78280&p=446066&hilit=+1.438+Super+35+#p446066

David Chapman said: "If anyone is wondering about the quality difference between the Metabones XL and the Viltrox M2, the Viltrox needs to be stopped down to at least T2.4 to be sharp. It can't handle anything below that. It will blur/bloom highlights in a very odd way—compared to the Metabones which is crystal clear compared."

Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:02 am "It must be something with the lens elements or build of the adapters. Even the sample Brandon provided wide open has the same issue. Mine looks worse because I'm showing a white object against a darker background (with a lot more light than his), but it's definitely there. The Metabones doesn't exhibit this weird glow.

I was happy with the Viltrox until I compared it to the Metabones (though I wanted a tighter fitting adapter)."

Re: Metabones and Viltrox Adapters Loose Against 4K Pocket
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=81437&p=451248&hilit=+XL+the+Viltrox+M2+#p451248
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Re: (BMPCC4k) lens recommendations ?

PostSun Mar 29, 2020 1:27 am

I'd like to throw the Zhongyi Lens Turbo II into the discussion. No, it's not electronically coupled, strictly manual. But if you decide to go for vintage glass, it's a nice option. Quite close to Speedboosters, but far cheaper.
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Re: (BMPCC4k) lens recommendations ?

PostSun Mar 29, 2020 6:57 am

Whatever the arguments between metabones and other adapters the fact is that if the OP buys a metabones there will be no money left in their budget to buy any glass for it ;)
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Re: (BMPCC4k) lens recommendations ?

PostSun Mar 29, 2020 1:20 pm

dondidnod wrote:
TheChemicalWorkshop wrote:I don't understand this product, so it's like speedbooster with focus puller built in?
tell me more, looks good

Yes, it's a focal reducer (ie, Metabones Speed Booster) with a built-in follow focus that a focus puller can use.

Here is a sharpness comparison of the DEC Lensregain and the Metabones Speed Booster:

Quick Aputure DEC LensRegain vs Metabones Speedbooster S Version Test 4K GH4 Xeen version cinema prime


This is another Metabones comparison that also shows the operation of the Lensregain:

The genius speedbooster [Aputure DEC LensRegain]


It comes with a pelican quality case that is worth half it's cost.

With some extra hardware I mount the hand controller to the right side of my Smallrig full cage. I am able to use the it's WiFi controller handle on my Smallrig full 2203 cage with the addition of a NICEYRIG NATO Clamp with Nato Rail Quick Release Plate, a SmallRig Handgrip Rosette Adapter for Sony FS7 and a rubber grommet. I can easily set A and B focus stops and have a variable speed control for rack focus while filming, plus, I can control the iris in real time while I move from dark to light environments. The addition of a CAMVATE Camera Handle Stabilizer (Left Hand) DSLR Cage Wooden Handle on the left side and a Canon IS lens makes for a very stable rig while moving. With the NATO clamps, the handles break down in seconds. I find that if you hold a camera stationary then having two handles is more stable when your arms get tired. I also use a z shaped offset raiser clamp to extend the rig to a foam shoulder pad using 15mm rods for a 3 point support.

The fit of the transmitter is a little tight against my Smallrig Samsung T5 mount however. When using it with an adapted fully manual lens, you can leave off the transmitter and receiver. I regularly use full frame M39, M42 and Olympus OM lenses with it:


i'll get a palican rippoff anyways to store all of my gear, but thats nice addition

the quality looks bit softer than metabones but not that bad, i wish it had electronics inside, prob will run fully manual with it if i get it... the handle and attachments will make it way too bulky for me so, not sure, maybe will get moza air 2 if i find really really good deal on it, but i doubt.
it looks good but but bad at the same time, don't really know

Uli Plank wrote:I'd like to throw the Zhongyi Lens Turbo II into the discussion. No, it's not electronically coupled, strictly manual. But if you decide to go for vintage glass, it's a nice option. Quite close to Speedboosters, but far cheaper.


Looking at price it's same as viltrox or Aputure DEC LensRegain... tell me more why i should consider it?

John Griffin wrote:Whatever the arguments between metabones and other adapters the fact is that if the OP buys a metabones there will be no money left in their budget to buy any glass for it ;)


yupp, you spot on, i need smth cheap and effective.

rn trying to get good deals on whatever i can find and need. so i can end up with more cash in total.
might get p4k on sale for 1000€, so that would give me 150-200€ extra for other stuff

if i plan to get metabones i would get p6k instead honestly, unless i can get it for 200€ used (which is impossible)
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Re: (BMPCC4k) lens recommendations ?

PostSun Mar 29, 2020 2:55 pm

If you get a Viltrox or Lens Regain for the same price, go for it.
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Re: (BMPCC4k) lens recommendations ?

PostSun Mar 29, 2020 3:10 pm

Uli Plank wrote:If you get a Viltrox or Lens Regain for the same price, go for it.


which one would be better? what are the advantages and disadvantages? i hope there is someone here that owns both and can compare them real good
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Re: (BMPCC4k) lens recommendations ?

PostSun Mar 29, 2020 4:48 pm

Fred, if you want primes, then have a look at the Meike MFT Cinema primes
https://www.cinegearpro.co.uk/pages/sea ... ndor=MEIKE

I do have the Meike 12mm and 35mm and they are really great, especially for the price. Sharp wide open, considerable less barrel distortion than the MFT lenses from Panasonic or Olympus.

Having said that, my main lens on the PCC4K is the Olympus Pro 12-100 f4 which is a fantastic lens, it's only weakness is the heavy distortion of 8% on the wide end.
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Re: (BMPCC4k) lens recommendations ?

PostSun Mar 29, 2020 5:04 pm

Robert Niessner wrote:Fred, if you want primes, then have a look at the Meike MFT Cinema primes
https://www.cinegearpro.co.uk/pages/sea ... ndor=MEIKE

I do have the Meike 12mm and 35mm and they are really great, especially for the price. Sharp wide open, considerable less barrel distortion than the MFT lenses from Panasonic or Olympus.

Having said that, my main lens on the PCC4K is the Olympus Pro 12-100 f4 which is a fantastic lens, it's only weakness is the heavy distortion of 8% on the wide end.


i have been thinking about meike primes for long time, but could only afford one or 2 so not sure... idk if going speedbooster route would be better or just stick with mtf

Olympus Pro 12-100 f4 looks awesome but it's outside my budget :(

i feel like getting speedbooster is still good idea tho, as canon glass is easy to come by... but unsure

maybe 1 meike prime, speedbooster and canon cheapie? weird mix but best of both worlds?

Edit: Ahhh F it's in pounds, the MEIKE 12MM T2.2 looks really nice tho, could get it for 380€ or so
there is also used 16 and 25mm for 270 each.
ideas?
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Re: (BMPCC4k) lens recommendations ?

PostSun Mar 29, 2020 11:21 pm

Fred, I guess you are based in Germany? Don't just look at Amazon, you can get a better price elsewhere. For example here: https://www.fotokoch.de/Meike-25mm-T2-2 ... 24662.html
https://www.photospecialist.de/meike-12 ... 2-t2-2-m43
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Re: (BMPCC4k) lens recommendations ?

PostSun Mar 29, 2020 11:59 pm

Robert Niessner wrote:Fred, I guess you are based in Germany? Don't just look at Amazon, you can get a better price elsewhere. For example here: https://www.fotokoch.de/Meike-25mm-T2-2 ... 24662.html
https://www.photospecialist.de/meike-12 ... 2-t2-2-m43

yes we are from Germany, no i don't look at amazon, I mostly go to idealo and compare price is pretty much same on fotokoch and photospecialist and idealo

still 12mm about 380€, maybe should i go used 16mm? https://www.ebay.de/itm/Meike-16mm-T-2-2-CINE-LENSE-MFT-BMPCC4K-GH5/264662762089?hash=item3d9f214269%3Ag%3ArQMAAOSwWOFeZ-cP&LH_ItemCondition=4
i mean 270€ is really good, but i don't trust used market. also if i get it now, can't test it as i didn't buy the camrea yet (waiting for deals for 1 more month)

not sure going wide 16mm/12mm is good, but i think for outdoors wide is better?
and then cheap canon glass for indoors, zoomed in is great for that (safety reasons)
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Re: (BMPCC4k) lens recommendations ?

PostMon Mar 30, 2020 12:08 am

TheChemicalWorkshop wrote:i didn't buy the camrea yet (waiting for deals for 1 more month)



I think that we are going to see aggressive discounts from the major camera manufacturers, but I’ll be surprised if we see it from Blackmagic, whose prices are already at the bottom of the market, unless it announces a successor camera and wants to offload existing inventory, assuming that excess inventory even exists at the moment.

That said, the price certainly isn’t going to go up, so if you can wait there’s nothing to lose.
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TheChemicalWorkshop

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Re: (BMPCC4k) lens recommendations ?

PostMon Mar 30, 2020 12:18 am

robedge wrote:
TheChemicalWorkshop wrote:i didn't buy the camrea yet (waiting for deals for 1 more month)



I think that we are going to see aggressive discounts from the major camera manufacturers, but I’ll be surprised if we see it from Blackmagic unless it announces a successor camera and wants to offload existing inventory, assuming that excess inventory even exists at the moment.

That said, the price certainly isn’t going to go up, so if you can wait there’s nothing to lose.


well, now gonna sound like advertisement...
anyways on the comparison website I use (idealo), I sometimes see discounts for few hours. this is how i bought a lot of stuff cheaper, also the t5 ssd, cage and parts for my pc few years back
even if it's 50€ off 1250€ is big change for me. but i think i can do better :)

also regarding corona, i doubt price will go up for camera-stuff at least
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Re: (BMPCC4k) lens recommendations ?

PostMon Mar 30, 2020 12:22 am

TheChemicalWorkshop wrote:
robedge wrote:
TheChemicalWorkshop wrote:i didn't buy the camrea yet (waiting for deals for 1 more month)



I think that we are going to see aggressive discounts from the major camera manufacturers, but I’ll be surprised if we see it from Blackmagic unless it announces a successor camera and wants to offload existing inventory, assuming that excess inventory even exists at the moment.

That said, the price certainly isn’t going to go up, so if you can wait there’s nothing to lose.


well, now gonna sound like advertisement...
anyways on the comparison website I use (idealo), I sometimes see discounts for few hours. this is how i bought a lot of stuff cheaper, also the t5 ssd, cage and parts for my pc few years back
even if it's 50€ off 1250€ is big change for me. but i think i can do better :)

also regarding corona, i doubt price will go up for camera-stuff at least


Cool, there’s an American participant in the forum who has started two threads recently on discounts, the latest tied to purchase of a CFast card. I don’t know if you can do better than €50, but I think that there’s zero chance of the price increasing over the next month.
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Re: (BMPCC4k) lens recommendations ?

PostMon Mar 30, 2020 12:34 am

I think you should first decide which focal length is your personal preference. It's a matter of style, not just of technical aspects. There were famous directors who shot whole movies with one or two focal lengths.

Maybe you should really get one Meike in your preferred focal length then, plus a cheap Canon kit zoom plus Lens Regain.
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TheChemicalWorkshop

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Re: (BMPCC4k) lens recommendations ?

PostMon Mar 30, 2020 12:50 am

Uli Plank wrote:I think you should first decide which focal length is your personal preference. It's a matter of style, not just of technical aspects. There were famous directors who shot whole movies with one or two focal lengths.

Maybe you should really get one Meike in your preferred focal length then, plus a cheap Canon kit zoom plus Lens Regain.


yeah that's what i have been thinking about
how much will a "cheap" canon kit zoom run me? any suggestions?
i think i might actually buy the used 16mm meike 270€ is hard to beat. i would like 12mm (so i can do nice stuff outdoors) but 16 is very similar
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Re: (BMPCC4k) lens recommendations ?

PostMon Mar 30, 2020 12:56 am

With some patience, you can find a used Canon EF-S 17-55 mm f2.8 around 250,- €.

The difference in visual style between a 16 and a 12mm is pretty strong! In my opinion, close-ups from the 12mm will not play nice with your actors.
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TheChemicalWorkshop

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Re: (BMPCC4k) lens recommendations ?

PostMon Mar 30, 2020 1:04 am

Uli Plank wrote:With some patience, you can find a used Canon EF-S 17-55 mm f2.8 around 250,- €.

The difference in visual style between a 16 and a 12mm is pretty strong! In my opinion, close-ups from the 12mm will not play nice with your actors.


yeah but i don't plan to film a lot of actors outside on 12mm, i would have to be very close to get good shot of them
i think the 16mm is good mix wide but not too wide (even tho i don't worry about too wide)

250€ is ok but well... 150 for speedbooster aswell... i'll see what i can do
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Re: (BMPCC4k) lens recommendations ?

PostMon Mar 30, 2020 1:31 am

Uli Plank wrote:With some patience, you can find a used Canon EF-S 17-55 mm f2.8 around 250,- €.

The difference in visual style between a 16 and a 12mm is pretty strong! In my opinion, close-ups from the 12mm will not play nice with your actors.


I'm looking at that Canon now as I need stabilization but can't find much sample footage with the BMPCC4K.

I also heard that when you take off that plastic thing to mount to a SB, it's going to attract a lot of dust. Maybe the BMPCC6K is a better choice for it?
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