Zhiyun CRANE 3S really stabilize UMPG2 or is just marketing?

The place for questions about shooting with Blackmagic Cameras.
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

Michael Moore

  • Posts: 328
  • Joined: Sun May 08, 2016 12:28 pm

Zhiyun CRANE 3S really stabilize UMPG2 or is just marketing?

PostThu Mar 26, 2020 12:30 pm

I saw few videos with Zhiyun CRANE 3S and UMP but the steady-cam man couldn't see what him shooting because UMP has closed LCD screen and i dont't see another video assist solution. So its Zhiyun CRANE 3S a real solution to stabilize UMP G2 or just marketing?
Offline
User avatar

Donnell Henry

  • Posts: 1030
  • Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2013 9:04 pm
  • Location: Brooklyn ny

Re: Zhiyun CRANE 3S really stabilize UMPG2 or is just market

PostThu Mar 26, 2020 1:48 pm

I thought the same thing myself. After adding 1 or 2 attachments to your camera on the gimbal would it exceed the weight limit? There should be a place to mount your external monitor to the gimbal hopefully. For the UMP I use a wireless video system. It remains to be seen how the ump on this gimbal would be set up for real world shooting.
GODS CREATE
Offline

John Paines

  • Posts: 3346
  • Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2015 4:04 pm

Re: Zhiyun CRANE 3S really stabilize UMPG2 or is just market

PostThu Mar 26, 2020 2:10 pm

Those two together will run around 11lbs, not including a lens or accessories. Without a vest and arm, it's hard to see how anyone will be able to operate it. Just carrying the thing, with no thought to technique, would be exhausting. Then add the physical/muscular requirements of operating it well.
Offline

Ellory Yu

  • Posts: 1048
  • Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:25 pm

Re: Zhiyun CRANE 3S really stabilize UMPG2 or is just market

PostThu Mar 26, 2020 9:43 pm

John Paines wrote:Those two together will run around 11lbs, not including a lens or accessories. Without a vest and arm, it's hard to see how anyone will be able to operate it. Just carrying the thing, with no thought to technique, would be exhausting. Then add the physical/muscular requirements of operating it well.


The spec says it can carry up to 6.5Kg or about 14.3lbs. I wouldn't mount the monitor or other heavy accessories on the camera itself. I would mount it on one of the handle mount points like most do with the Ronin S. This definitely will require a mechanical arm and vest. A lightweight vest and arm will do. I am hoping the Zhiyun will have a dual arm handle that can carry the gimbal with the cine cam to distribute and relieve the weight from the operator. I think someone will figure out how best to carry this thing. But just having an affordable gimbal that can carry the UMP is a step in the right direction. I'm happy they created the 3S and looking for other gimbal vendors to up the game. Gudsen is yet to unveil their Mosa Air X.
MSI Raider X99 MB / Intel i7 5280 6 core CPU / 2 x AMD R9 390X 8Gb GPU / 64Gb 3200 RAM / Decklink 4K Mini Monitor / 240Gb SSD OS Drive / 480Gb RAID 0 SSD Cache Drive / 12Tb 7200rpm HDD Data Drive / Win 10 Pro 64bit / Resolve 16.1.1.005
Offline
User avatar

rick.lang

  • Posts: 12926
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:41 pm
  • Location: Victoria BC Canada

Re: Zhiyun CRANE 3S really stabilize UMPG2 or is just market

PostFri Mar 27, 2020 3:31 am

Unless you’re doing very quick takes and rest between takes, the sample BTS we’ve seen will be very hard in your back and knees and muscles. Something like the Easy Rig or Steadicam with an arm will be a life saver but the costs of these accessories quickly eclipses the budget cost of the Crane 3S gear. It’s a bit like the arguments over the ‘true cost’ of the BMPCC4K. The Crane 3S looks decent, but I don’t know if I’ll ever buy a gimbal because I’d need to spend thousands on the accessories to make it a joy to operate.

If you’re a third my age and workout in the gym religiously, you might manage with just the gimbal for awhile.
Rick Lang
Offline

Michael Moore

  • Posts: 328
  • Joined: Sun May 08, 2016 12:28 pm

Re: Zhiyun CRANE 3S really stabilize UMPG2 or is just market

PostSat Mar 28, 2020 10:52 pm

How i say already in the title topic IS JUST MARKETING!!! UMP G2 it's not on list of compatible cameras.https://www.bhphotovideo.com/lit_files/580685.pdf
Offline
User avatar

Donnell Henry

  • Posts: 1030
  • Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2013 9:04 pm
  • Location: Brooklyn ny

Re: Zhiyun CRANE 3S really stabilize UMPG2 or is just market

PostSun Mar 29, 2020 1:07 am

There is no blackmagic camera on the compatibility list
GODS CREATE
Offline
User avatar

Phil999

  • Posts: 108
  • Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:12 am
  • Real Name: Philipp Straehl

Re: Zhiyun CRANE 3S really stabilize UMPG2 or is just market

PostSun Mar 29, 2020 1:14 am

indeed it is a bit strange why gimbals generally are not compatible with cinema cameras, but with many stills cameras. Nikon, Canon, Sony, Panasonic. But not Red, BMD, or Canon cinema. It should be the other way round. Must have something to do with protocols or licensing, I don't know.
Offline

Chris Leutger

  • Posts: 166
  • Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:00 am

Re: Zhiyun CRANE 3S really stabilize UMPG2 or is just market

PostSun Mar 29, 2020 3:58 am

Actually, the BMD cameras are on that list. On pages 15-17. And so are Red and lots of other cinema cameras.

From the notes at the bottom:

1. Cine cameras have multiple modules and different users may have
different modules, so the compatible maximum lens may vary from one
to another.
2. The compatibility list may not include all the compatible cine cameras
and lens. Please check with customer service if you have a question.
Amateur Auteur

i7 8700k 6c 3.7 GHz - Crucial DDR4-2666 16x2
GTX 1080 8GB Ver 441.66 - Windows 10 Pro 1903
Resolve 15.3.1.003 (Free) - SSD 250GB-cache
Offline

Ellory Yu

  • Posts: 1048
  • Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:25 pm

Re: Zhiyun CRANE 3S really stabilize UMPG2 or is just market

PostSun Mar 29, 2020 4:07 am

Chris Leutger wrote:Actually, the BMD cameras are on that list. On pages 15-17.

Yes BMD is there but no UMP G2 in the list. The marketing guy for Zhiyun showed during the streaming video a set-up with the UMP. He shows it around 36:43.

MSI Raider X99 MB / Intel i7 5280 6 core CPU / 2 x AMD R9 390X 8Gb GPU / 64Gb 3200 RAM / Decklink 4K Mini Monitor / 240Gb SSD OS Drive / 480Gb RAID 0 SSD Cache Drive / 12Tb 7200rpm HDD Data Drive / Win 10 Pro 64bit / Resolve 16.1.1.005
Offline
User avatar

Phil999

  • Posts: 108
  • Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:12 am
  • Real Name: Philipp Straehl

Re: Zhiyun CRANE 3S really stabilize UMPG2 or is just market

PostSun Mar 29, 2020 3:16 pm

Chris Leutger wrote:Actually, the BMD cameras are on that list. On pages 15-17. And so are Red and lots of other cinema cameras.

they are on the list, sure, and these cameras work well with the gimbal. You just can't start/stop recording, and must rely on servos to control the lenses.

But maybe I should rephrase: every camera and lens combination that is below the rated weight is compatible with the Crane 3S. But only stills cameras are controllable with the gimbal. Cinema cameras are not controllable, which is what I am wondering why. It makes no sense to me. These are the cameras that would profit most from gimbals.
Offline

robedge

  • Posts: 584
  • Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2019 1:24 am
  • Location: U.S.
  • Real Name: Rob Edge

Re: Zhiyun CRANE 3S really stabilize UMPG2 or is just market

PostSun Mar 29, 2020 11:44 pm

Phil999 wrote:But only stills cameras are controllable with the gimbal. Cinema cameras are not controllable, which is what I am wondering why. It makes no sense to me. These are the cameras that would profit most from gimbals.


In an earlier post, you mentioned RED and Canon Cinema cameras specifically. I’m no expert on this stuff, but aren’t the people using those cameras already served by other companies? Zhuyin and similar have focused on hybrid cameras. It remains to be seen whether the 3S changes that, but I doubt that companies serving higher end video feel particularly threatened by this product.

Zhuyin is clearly betting that there’s a market for the 3S. It just isn’t clear to me what that market is.
Video: Pocket 4K, Fujinon MK 18-55mm, Leica primes 35-135mm, Nikkor 55mm macro

Stills: Leica M3/M6/M240; Mamiya 7II; Arca Swiss 4x5/8x10

Sound: Schoeps omni & supercardiod mikes; DPA miniature omni mikes; Sound Devices 702T/MixPre-3 v.2
Offline

Ellory Yu

  • Posts: 1048
  • Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:25 pm

Re: Zhiyun CRANE 3S really stabilize UMPG2 or is just market

PostMon Mar 30, 2020 12:31 am

robedge wrote:Zhuyin is clearly betting that there’s a market for the 3S. It just isn’t clear to me what that market is.


Everyone is trying to see how they can tap the cine camera market but I think they are being very careful. Zhiyun and Gudsen is stepping up with the Crane 3S and Moza Air X (TBA) and we don't know what DJI will be doing. However I think they feel that it is advantageous for them to fill the DSLR market because there's just many of them out there.

I think they will have specialize gimbals to compete (on the low end) with the big stabilizer vendors. That's a good thing. I have always think that those high end stabilizers/gimbals are just overpriced.
MSI Raider X99 MB / Intel i7 5280 6 core CPU / 2 x AMD R9 390X 8Gb GPU / 64Gb 3200 RAM / Decklink 4K Mini Monitor / 240Gb SSD OS Drive / 480Gb RAID 0 SSD Cache Drive / 12Tb 7200rpm HDD Data Drive / Win 10 Pro 64bit / Resolve 16.1.1.005
Offline

robedge

  • Posts: 584
  • Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2019 1:24 am
  • Location: U.S.
  • Real Name: Rob Edge

Re: Zhiyun CRANE 3S really stabilize UMPG2 or is just market

PostMon Mar 30, 2020 3:32 am

To me, the problem with the 3S is that it adds significant complication without addressing the vertical axis problem. This class of gimbals started as a relatively inexpensive way, with rudimentary skill, to get semi-stable footage with light cameras. This whole class of gimbals is now becoming obsolete due to image stabilisation.

It isn’t obvious to me what problem carrying more weight solves. More importantly, surely certain of these companies, starting with DJI, know how to make a device that can compete with the Steadicam and ARRI Trinity. Why isn’t it happening?
Video: Pocket 4K, Fujinon MK 18-55mm, Leica primes 35-135mm, Nikkor 55mm macro

Stills: Leica M3/M6/M240; Mamiya 7II; Arca Swiss 4x5/8x10

Sound: Schoeps omni & supercardiod mikes; DPA miniature omni mikes; Sound Devices 702T/MixPre-3 v.2
Offline

robedge

  • Posts: 584
  • Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2019 1:24 am
  • Location: U.S.
  • Real Name: Rob Edge

Re: Zhiyun CRANE 3S really stabilize UMPG2 or is just market

PostMon Mar 30, 2020 4:35 am

Meanwhile, the B&H price of the Zhiyun Weebill Lab is down 33% for the next 24 hours: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... lizer.html
Video: Pocket 4K, Fujinon MK 18-55mm, Leica primes 35-135mm, Nikkor 55mm macro

Stills: Leica M3/M6/M240; Mamiya 7II; Arca Swiss 4x5/8x10

Sound: Schoeps omni & supercardiod mikes; DPA miniature omni mikes; Sound Devices 702T/MixPre-3 v.2
Offline

Ellory Yu

  • Posts: 1048
  • Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:25 pm

Re: Zhiyun CRANE 3S really stabilize UMPG2 or is just market

PostMon Mar 30, 2020 4:41 am

Well, regardless how applicable it may be to some and others not, at least we are seeing options from this vendors. I think there can be some other cottage industry that will make support systems that will work with the vertical axis issue. I don't think that these companies are trying to solve that problem. But as they make the gimbal modular enough, they can be mounted to other support systems.
MSI Raider X99 MB / Intel i7 5280 6 core CPU / 2 x AMD R9 390X 8Gb GPU / 64Gb 3200 RAM / Decklink 4K Mini Monitor / 240Gb SSD OS Drive / 480Gb RAID 0 SSD Cache Drive / 12Tb 7200rpm HDD Data Drive / Win 10 Pro 64bit / Resolve 16.1.1.005
Offline

robedge

  • Posts: 584
  • Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2019 1:24 am
  • Location: U.S.
  • Real Name: Rob Edge

Re: Zhiyun CRANE 3S really stabilize UMPG2 or is just market

PostMon Mar 30, 2020 4:50 am

Ellory Yu wrote:I think there can be some other cottage industry that will make support systems that will work with the vertical axis issue. I don't think that these companies are trying to solve that problem.


I guess I don’t see DJI as fitting into the rubric of “cottage industry” :)
Video: Pocket 4K, Fujinon MK 18-55mm, Leica primes 35-135mm, Nikkor 55mm macro

Stills: Leica M3/M6/M240; Mamiya 7II; Arca Swiss 4x5/8x10

Sound: Schoeps omni & supercardiod mikes; DPA miniature omni mikes; Sound Devices 702T/MixPre-3 v.2
Offline

Michael Moore

  • Posts: 328
  • Joined: Sun May 08, 2016 12:28 pm

Re: Zhiyun CRANE 3S really stabilize UMPG2 or is just market

PostMon Mar 30, 2020 10:41 am

I find at one reseller Zhiyun-Tech Crane 3 LAB Creator Package with 840$ (VAT inclusive) in stock and Zhiyun-Tech CRANE 3S SmartSling at 950$ (VAT inclusive) at preorder. For 840$ Crane 3 LAB Creator Package have many accesories tool kit and for 950$ CRANE 3S SmartSling offer just the gimbal. If i have a UMP G2 and BMPCC 4K what worth more to invest?
Offline

John Paines

  • Posts: 3346
  • Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2015 4:04 pm

Re: Zhiyun CRANE 3S really stabilize UMPG2 or is just market

PostMon Mar 30, 2020 12:42 pm

The "vertical axis issue" requires an arm, and that requires a vest. The marketing rationale behind gimbals is you forgo vertical axis stabilization in return for light weight, ease of use and low cost.

If the idea is to turn a gimbal into a steadicam, it might be easier to start with the steadicam. Add-on gear does exist -- Steadimate-S -- but it's compatible with only two gimbals. Rigging a gimbal generically to a vest and arm is likely to end unhappily.
Offline

Ellory Yu

  • Posts: 1048
  • Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:25 pm

Re: Zhiyun CRANE 3S really stabilize UMPG2 or is just market

PostMon Mar 30, 2020 2:09 pm

Michael Moore wrote:I find at one reseller Zhiyun-Tech Crane 3 LAB Creator Package with 840$ (VAT inclusive) in stock and Zhiyun-Tech CRANE 3S SmartSling at 950$ (VAT inclusive) at preorder. For 840$ Crane 3 LAB Creator Package have many accesories tool kit and for 950$ CRANE 3S SmartSling offer just the gimbal. If i have a UMP G2 and BMPCC 4K what worth more to invest?

If you are thinking of putting a UMP G2 on a Crane 3 LAB, you'll be disappointed almost immediately. I have both the UMP G2 and the BMPCC 6K. The LAB can carry the BMPCC 6K but the motors will struggle calibrating with the UMP G2, and you will have to figure out how to locate the battery and other attachments. Even with a Canon 24mm pancake lens to reduce length, it was challenging at best. The CRANE 3S, from what I read and watched on YT, has an optional long arm and stronger motors design for cine camera and 6.5kg payload. So I think that is the better of the two with just 110 difference in cost.

I will think that some vendors will start making arms and vest that will work with the CRANE 3S and other coming gimbals. That will be the logical next step.
MSI Raider X99 MB / Intel i7 5280 6 core CPU / 2 x AMD R9 390X 8Gb GPU / 64Gb 3200 RAM / Decklink 4K Mini Monitor / 240Gb SSD OS Drive / 480Gb RAID 0 SSD Cache Drive / 12Tb 7200rpm HDD Data Drive / Win 10 Pro 64bit / Resolve 16.1.1.005
Offline

Ellory Yu

  • Posts: 1048
  • Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:25 pm

Re: Zhiyun CRANE 3S really stabilize UMPG2 or is just market

PostMon Mar 30, 2020 2:13 pm

John Paines wrote:The "vertical axis issue" requires an arm, and that requires a vest. The marketing rationale behind gimbals is you forgo vertical axis stabilization in return for light weight, ease of use and low cost.

If the idea is to turn a gimbal into a steadicam, it might be easier to start with the steadicam. Add-on gear does exist -- Steadimate-S -- but it's compatible with only two gimbals. Rigging a gimbal generically to a vest and arm is likely to end unhappily.


The Steadicam, solving the "vertical axis issue", still requires enough training and practice to be able to stabilize the shot. I do a lot better job handling a gimbal than a Steadicam... I'm no Steadicam operator at all. I think we need both, some kind of a support system (i.e., more portable arm and lightweight vest) for gimbals is necessary for this heavier payload. I hope to see some in the market soon.
MSI Raider X99 MB / Intel i7 5280 6 core CPU / 2 x AMD R9 390X 8Gb GPU / 64Gb 3200 RAM / Decklink 4K Mini Monitor / 240Gb SSD OS Drive / 480Gb RAID 0 SSD Cache Drive / 12Tb 7200rpm HDD Data Drive / Win 10 Pro 64bit / Resolve 16.1.1.005

Return to Cinematography

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: BMDVR180, John Griffin, Karl_Meyer and 18 guests