Please Firmware 7.0 - URSA Mini Pro Updates

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timbutt2

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Please Firmware 7.0 - URSA Mini Pro Updates

PostSun Apr 05, 2020 10:20 pm

Sorry if this is getting repeated, but I'm hoping that these updates can happen before the Pockets are updated again. It's almost feeling like the URSA Mini Pro is forgotten at times.

Well, it's been more than 6 months without any updates for the URSA Mini Pros (August 28, 2019 was the last update). The Pockets have gotten all the love. In fact, some updates that came to the Pockets that should come to the URSA Mini Pro have now been on the Pockets for 6 months. These updates were in 6.6 on October 24, 2019. So these are some of the updates that still need to come to the UMP:

1) Custom Frame Guides
2) Pinch to Zoom 8X Magnification
3) Added 1:1 and 4:5 frame guide options

But also there are some additional updates I'd like to see in the next update. Some of these things I've already mentioned in other threads, but I'll give a quick bullet point here.

1) Slate Metadata Updates (see this thread: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=87441 )
2) BRAW Custom Presets - (see this thread: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=98028 )
3) Super 16mm Sensor Size Window Crop Option
4) Speed Ramping via Bluetooth Control. So you're shooting 24, but then can go to 60 or 120 fps from 24, and then can go back. This was because I rewatched Elephant which had some great speed ramping on the Steadicam. I was inspired to see this possible without having to shoot in HFR the whole time.

In addition the Bluetooth Camera Control App is in need of updating. And, even the Pockets can get some of the updates that are easily possible for the UMP and Pocket cameras to share like Slate Metadata.

Mainly I'd love for the URSA Mini Pro to get on the same page as the Pockets with regards to the 6.6 features. But there is still a lot of potential with the URSA Mini Pro. It's more powerful and has to be capable of more than the Pockets.

Thank you! Hopefully this happens with the DaVinci Resolve 17 Announcement.
Last edited by timbutt2 on Wed May 20, 2020 9:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
"I'm well trained in the art of turning **** to gold." - Tim Buttner (timbutt2)

Cameras: URSA Mini Pro G2, URSA Mini 4.6K EF & Cinema Camera 2.5K EF
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timbutt2

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Re: Please Firmware 7.0 - URSA Mini Pro Updates

PostSun Apr 05, 2020 10:22 pm

Example of Elephant Speed Ramp:


Another example from different shot:
"I'm well trained in the art of turning **** to gold." - Tim Buttner (timbutt2)

Cameras: URSA Mini Pro G2, URSA Mini 4.6K EF & Cinema Camera 2.5K EF
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timbutt2

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Re: Please Firmware 7.0 - URSA Mini Pro Updates

PostWed May 20, 2020 9:53 am

Bumping this, but also wanted to say something about an interesting trend I've noticed...

April 28th: Video Assist 3.1.1 Update
May 5th: Desktop Video 11.5.1 Update
May 12th: ATEM Switchers 8.2.2 Update
May 19th: DaVinci Resolve 16.2.2 Update

A new Blackmagic update every Tuesday for the last few weeks. Might be Wednesday for them in Australia, but for us in the US on the east coast it has been each Tuesday based on the dates and calendar day. So that means in a week on Tuesday there will possibly be another update of some sort.

And thus, I'm wondering about the potential for a camera update. One that focuses on the G2. One that might be bringing 7.0 and some of the things in my massive wish list.

Either way, I bumped this primarily because Firmware 7.0 and the potential for that to be the next camera firmware update number. So, what do you think about the trend I noticed?

And, no rush on Blackmagic. This trend was just something fun I noticed. Take your time and do Firmware 7.0 right.
"I'm well trained in the art of turning **** to gold." - Tim Buttner (timbutt2)

Cameras: URSA Mini Pro G2, URSA Mini 4.6K EF & Cinema Camera 2.5K EF
Computers: iMac 5K (Late 2015) & MacBook Pro Retina 15.4in (Mid 2018)
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carlomacchiavello

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Re: Please Firmware 7.0 - URSA Mini Pro Updates

PostWed May 20, 2020 11:25 am

1-2-3 also for Ursa mini pro g1, small but important thing to focus and manage shooting, don’t forget there are tons of Ursa mini pro n that wonderful earth :-)


Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk
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Re: Please Firmware 7.0 - URSA Mini Pro Updates

PostWed May 20, 2020 9:13 pm

I´m also eager to know if they´re planning to give updates to the UMP.

It´s somewhat strange that their high end camera has less support and love compared to their entry level ones. I know that they probably sell a lot more, either way, they should care about people that pays for their PRO package :)
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Re: Please Firmware 7.0 - URSA Mini Pro Updates

PostThu May 21, 2020 11:25 am

Yeah, I've been wondering the same since I got mine on june 28th 2019! I remember seeing an interview at a convention (NAB maybe?) with a rep saying the camera will reach it's full potentiel via future firmware updates. He said they could possibly unlock HFR to get 400fps in 1080p. Hope they'll release something great with a lot of stuff at least. I'll be honest, if the update contains juste a few minor changes, I'll be pretty bummed out! We'll see!
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Re: Please Firmware 7.0 - URSA Mini Pro Updates

PostThu May 21, 2020 3:28 pm

QuantumImages wrote:Yeah, I've been wondering the same since I got mine on june 28th 2019! I remember seeing an interview at a convention (NAB maybe?) with a rep saying the camera will reach it's full potentiel via future firmware updates. He said they could possibly unlock HFR to get 400fps in 1080p. Hope they'll release something great with a lot of stuff at least. I'll be honest, if the update contains juste a few minor changes, I'll be pretty bummed out! We'll see!

uhm i dubt that can reach more than now, usually bmd release directly on cpu/sensor limits its cameras, also be cause could be a processing limits, cache limits, bandwitch recording limits... anyway if it 's possible, i will be happy for ursa owner.
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Joachim Lindenmann

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Re: Please Firmware 7.0 - URSA Mini Pro Updates

PostSat May 23, 2020 10:57 am

I also hope for a URSA Mini Pro G2 firmware update!

I still get some weird screen flickering in ProRes mode.
Also all the custom framing features would be very nice.

Is maybe even ProResRAW possible in addition to ProRes and BRAW to support all customers?
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timbutt2

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Re: Please Firmware 7.0 - URSA Mini Pro Updates

PostSat May 23, 2020 9:30 pm

Joachim Lindenmann wrote:I also hope for a URSA Mini Pro G2 firmware update!

I still get some weird screen flickering in ProRes mode.
Also all the custom framing features would be very nice.

Is maybe even ProResRAW possible in addition to ProRes and BRAW to support all customers?

I'm not sure if ProRes RAW is needed, but support in Resolve would be welcome. BRAW defeats the purpose of ProRes RAW.
"I'm well trained in the art of turning **** to gold." - Tim Buttner (timbutt2)

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Re: Please Firmware 7.0 - URSA Mini Pro Updates

PostSun May 24, 2020 10:40 pm

leobauberger wrote:I´m also eager to know if they´re planning to give updates to the UMP.

It´s somewhat strange that their high end camera has less support and love compared to their entry level ones. I know that they probably sell a lot more, either way, they should care about people that pays for their PRO package :)


A 400FPS update would make the UMP G2 the best high fps camera out there for this price pool.
The only one at the same price is TERRA 4K that have 320FPS (and a lot of missing stuff that UMP have).
I don´t know if this is possible but hell, it would make a real bump for the UMP G2 life.
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timbutt2

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Re: Please Firmware 7.0 - URSA Mini Pro Updates

PostTue May 26, 2020 12:09 am

Firmware 6.9.3
Tim Schumann wrote:We have a new release for the original URSA Mini Pro G1 that we have been working on. It is on our support site now. It is quite a big update and adds a lot of new features including 10 new languages to the camera.

Release notes are below...

New features for the original URSA Mini Pro G1.

• Add language localization support.
• Add slider and 1/3rd stop increments when adjusting ISO.
• Add common off-speed frame rate options above slider.
• Add ability to embed custom LUTs in Blackmagic RAW clips.
• Add sidetone level adjustment.
• Add improved ballistics and scaling of audio meters.
• Add choice of -18 or -20dB reference levels for audio meters.
• Add ability to remap the HFR button.
• Add ability to disable function and HFR buttons.
• Add ability to remap VTR and Ret buttons on B4 lenses.
• Add quick media switching from the heads up display.
• Add support for HDR metadata in SDI output.
• Add 'LUT' icon to status text overlays.
• Add 'PRE' icon to status text overlays for preset timecode.
• Add 2:1, 1:1 and 4:5 monitoring frame guides.
• Add customizable frame guides.
• Add ability to lock timecode to SDI Input.
• Retain jam synced timecode after power cycle.
• Improved jam sync timecode accuracy after playback.
• Improved stability when using external or program reference.
• Improved compatibility for embedded audio on SDI outputs.
• Improved accuracy of status text on SDI outputs.
• Improved ND filter status text.
• Improved auto exposure speed and performance.
• Improved media formatting user interface.

No new features in 6.9.3 for other camera models.

As always you should back up your LUT's and presets before running the update and then run a Black Shading Calibration once it has been updated.


Wow, I was right on the timing. Sadly, only URSA Mini Pro G1 is updated. And, it gets the custom frame guides before the G2! Bummer! I'm so sad that this wasn't an update for both models.

:o :o :o
"I'm well trained in the art of turning **** to gold." - Tim Buttner (timbutt2)

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Re: Please Firmware 7.0 - URSA Mini Pro Updates

PostTue May 26, 2020 4:12 am

Cheer up, Tim. Maybe it’s just because when we’re counting 1 comes before 2?
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timbutt2

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Please Firmware 7.0 - URSA Mini Pro Updates

PostTue May 26, 2020 5:35 am

rick.lang wrote:Cheer up, Tim. Maybe it’s just because when we’re counting 1 comes before 2?

I'm actually pretty cheerful. Why? Because it means that eventually the custom frame guides will come to the G2. And, probably there's something bigger in store for the G2 now. Maybe some of the things I've been pushing for improvement wise.

Still, it makes me wish I had the G1 instead of the Original URSA Mini 4.6K so that it would match the G2 better. Oh well.

Either way, now that I've paid off the lights I'm using my credit cards for a Steadicam. I think that's going to be more worth the investment than a Pocket 6K right now. Just waiting for the credit on the B&H Card to clear so I can place the order. I really can't wait to get some amazing shots with the G2 on a Steadicam.
Image
"I'm well trained in the art of turning **** to gold." - Tim Buttner (timbutt2)

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Re: Please Firmware 7.0 - URSA Mini Pro Updates

PostTue May 26, 2020 1:57 pm

That deserves a new thread on the forum when it arrives. Very good asset.
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timbutt2

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Re: Please Firmware 7.0 - URSA Mini Pro Updates

PostSun May 31, 2020 2:04 am

rick.lang wrote:That deserves a new thread on the forum when it arrives. Very good asset.

Just ordered it. Should arrive Thursday! Took forever for Synchrony to make available my credit despite having paid the card off several days ago.

I'll also have a photographer and model meet up on June 13th I'll attend to test it out.
"I'm well trained in the art of turning **** to gold." - Tim Buttner (timbutt2)

Cameras: URSA Mini Pro G2, URSA Mini 4.6K EF & Cinema Camera 2.5K EF
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Re: Please Firmware 7.0 - URSA Mini Pro Updates

PostSun May 31, 2020 9:20 am

Hello :idea:
Urgent improvement for the Blacmagick UMP G2 please:
1 Pre-Roll in Buffer on CFast2 card for example
The importance of modifying the G2 software to integrate a pre-roll system or electronic buffer of 3 to 4 seconds.
This to allow us to make the animal: "we let the camera turn without recording then when the animal arises we rec and the camera records with the 3 seconds before".
Or if it is not possible with your system so this dot at least be possible here:
This can also be done when recording at the end of the trigger, ie over the last 10 seconds: the camera turns in a vacuum, the animal appears, we wait a bit and we Rec! the camera then records the last ten seconds before the REC.
It’s super important for animal documentary !!!
You will gain places compared to AMIRA from ARRI and the Sony FS7, Fx9, or the Canon C500 and C300

2 Focus assistance as with Canon C500 or C300 etc.
Small indicators like triangles at Canon to tell us if we are in front focus or back focus on the subject, it would be a GREAT HELP for the development!

3 ISO automation option
Although in Braw the native ISO is at 800 on the G2, the automation of the ISO, as it is possible to do for the diaphragm or the shuter would be a plus for the documentary. "Sony does it" and it is really practical if the UMPG2 is in camera 2 mode, in autonomous mode for example in interview in Braw or in ProRes and or if we do animal, we will feel less the cut of modification diaphragm or worse shuter, it would really be a plus and for braw it will avoid making plan changes in post prod on Davinci with keyframes.

4 Improve the quality of ISO 3200 and solve its Banding problem.

Thank you very much !!!
JC
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timbutt2

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Re: Please Firmware 7.0 - URSA Mini Pro Updates

PostSun May 31, 2020 11:11 am

MagicWego wrote:Hello :idea:
Urgent improvement for the Blacmagick UMP G2 please:
1 Pre-Roll in Buffer on CFast2 card for example
The importance of modifying the G2 software to integrate a pre-roll system or electronic buffer of 3 to 4 seconds.
This to allow us to make the animal: "we let the camera turn without recording then when the animal arises we rec and the camera records with the 3 seconds before".
Or if it is not possible with your system so this dot at least be possible here:
This can also be done when recording at the end of the trigger, ie over the last 10 seconds: the camera turns in a vacuum, the animal appears, we wait a bit and we Rec! the camera then records the last ten seconds before the REC.
It’s super important for animal documentary !!!
You will gain places compared to AMIRA from ARRI and the Sony FS7, Fx9, or the Canon C500 and C300

2 Focus assistance as with Canon C500 or C300 etc.
Small indicators like triangles at Canon to tell us if we are in front focus or back focus on the subject, it would be a GREAT HELP for the development!

3 ISO automation option
Although in Braw the native ISO is at 800 on the G2, the automation of the ISO, as it is possible to do for the diaphragm or the shuter would be a plus for the documentary. "Sony does it" and it is really practical if the UMPG2 is in camera 2 mode, in autonomous mode for example in interview in Braw or in ProRes and or if we do animal, we will feel less the cut of modification diaphragm or worse shuter, it would really be a plus and for braw it will avoid making plan changes in post prod on Davinci with keyframes.

4 Improve the quality of ISO 3200 and solve its Banding problem.

Thank you very much !!!
JC

I don't know if you realize how difficult "pre-roll" is? I hate to say it but you're probably never going to see this as a firmware update to the current lineup of cameras. Pre-Roll takes an immense amount of processing power and "memory" to work. For Pre-Roll to exist the camera has to constantly be writing files and deleting them if they aren't used. There's no solid way to write that into a camera's functionality without a lot of bugs.

Maybe it may be possible in a decade, but at this time I find that highly unlikely.

Could you please list the cameras that actually successfully do pre-roll at the moment? I'm not aware of any really. And, if there are ones you can list what are their price points? I have a feeling any camera that can do it successfully is pretty pricey because it is a challenge to do right.
"I'm well trained in the art of turning **** to gold." - Tim Buttner (timbutt2)

Cameras: URSA Mini Pro G2, URSA Mini 4.6K EF & Cinema Camera 2.5K EF
Computers: iMac 5K (Late 2015) & MacBook Pro Retina 15.4in (Mid 2018)
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Re: Please Firmware 7.0 - URSA Mini Pro Updates

PostSun May 31, 2020 12:16 pm

timbutt2 wrote:I don't know if you realize how difficult "pre-roll" is? I hate to say it but you're probably never going to see this as a firmware update to the current lineup of cameras. Pre-Roll takes an immense amount of processing power and "memory" to work. For Pre-Roll to exist the camera has to constantly be writing files and deleting them if they aren't used. There's no solid way to write that into a camera's functionality without a lot of bugs.

Maybe it may be possible in a decade, but at this time I find that highly unlikely.

Could you please list the cameras that actually successfully do pre-roll at the moment? I'm not aware of any really. And, if there are ones you can list what are their price points? I have a feeling any camera that can do it successfully is pretty pricey because it is a challenge to do right.


Pretty much all of the Ursa Minis' cinestyle main competition (EVA 1, FS7/7II, C200 - 500) has a pre record buffer of at least 3 seconds at full quality. It's very common with these kind of ENG/cinestyle hybrids.
Of course not all of these write raw internally which restrics that further, but then on the other hand the "true" cine cameras like the bigger Reds, Alexa (mini and everything newer than the plus I think) and the Amira have a pre-record function even for massive uncompressed Arriraw files and it works like a charm to CFast 2.0
Yes, the Ursas aren't designed for it and surely needed some sort of large image cache on board for it to work, but it's a very common feature since many years for doc work, not at all obscure. I'd really like to see it on something like an UMP because all the competition has it
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Re: Please Firmware 7.0 - URSA Mini Pro Updates

PostSun May 31, 2020 12:44 pm

Tim, my Canon XF-305 does have a pre-cache feature, for example. And several Sony cameras, like FS700 and others.

But for that feature to work you need to design your hardware beforehand, that is not a feature you can make work just by a firmware update. The camera constantly writes into RAM and overwrites that. If you would do that onto flash based media you would wear those flash cells out pretty fast.

So you would need a certain amount of memory for the camera CPU, plus write buffer for normal recording and additional memory buffer for pre-recording.
Without that extra memory it ain't gonna happen.
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Re: Please Firmware 7.0 - URSA Mini Pro Updates

PostSun May 31, 2020 2:34 pm

Pre-roll can’t just be added. It has to be a designed in feature.

Same for dual recording.

If we want this then we have to ask for it. And it does add a lot of cost and complexity because in both cases you’re basically doubling the workload.

On the G2 for example not many realise what a massive leap it was compared to the G1.

To have half the rolling shutter time and then double the frame rate means a massive hike in performance.

So if you had a choice of half the rolling shutter time OR pre recording, I know which one I would choose.

JB
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