SD CARD for Pocket Camera

Hi to all,

I'd like to buy some card for the Pocket Cam. I only need to record Pro-Res...

On the BMD website it says that the Sandisk Extreme 64gb is good to go but, there is 2 versions: 80mb/s and 45 mb/s. Knowing that Pro-Res is about 27.5 mb/s I'm thinking that the 45mb/s version will be fine.

I know there's not allot of them out there. Anybody had a chance to try this out?

Thanks

Chucky B

I've been shooting the 45MB/s SanDisk for a few days without a problem. And this was the card that Blackmagic supplied with my review camera.

Ned Soltz

I've been shooting the 45MB/s SanDisk for a few days without a problem. And this was the card that Blackmagic supplied with my review camera.

Ned Soltz

10-4! Thanks Ned!!

There is also a very detailed note by PKent at Blackmagicuser.net

http://www.blackmagicuser.net/topic/445 ... ma-camera/

For ProRes HQ (220Mbps~27.5MB/s), most of the cards above 40MB/s will work well theoretically.

Hi to all,

I'd like to buy some card for the Pocket Cam. I only need to record Pro-Res...

On the BMD website it says that the Sandisk Extreme 64gb is good to go but, there is 2 versions: 80mb/s and 45 mb/s. Knowing that Pro-Res is about 27.5 mb/s I'm thinking that the 45mb/s version will be fine.

I know there's not allot of them out there. Anybody had a chance to try this out?

Thanks

Chucky B

It has been reported that the new Sony card rated for 45MB/s works well so far with ProRes on the BMPCC. The advantage of the Sony was it was about half the cost. Interesting world when Sony is the budget supplier and Sandisk the premium supplier.

Rick Lang
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

A link please?.. Cannot see these cards online thanks

What about the komputerbsy cards?.. Very cheap but reliable?

And.... Cancel....

Didn't you just drop your Pocket CC plans...?!

I'd be carefull with the Komputerbay cards until they've been in use for months and reported still working. You can find several very negative comments about the 64 gb and 32 gb variants in customers reviews at amazon & co.

A link please?.. Cannot see these cards online thanks

The specific cards mentioned in the Gear Addix review were the Sony SDHC 32GB Class 10 UHS-1 cards that show a sustained Write of 41 MB/s using the Blackmagic Speed Test. Sony also sells SDXC 64GB UHS-1 cards but Gear Addix didn't test those. The Patriot and Transcend SDXC cards fail to handle BMPCC ProRes recording..

Rick Lang
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Both Sony SDXC 64GB UHS-1 and Sony SDHC 32GB Class 10 UHS-1 come in either 40MBs or a Red topped version that says 94MBs, at lest that is what I am finding online. The 40MBs should work for prores???

Both Sony SDXC 64GB UHS-1 and Sony SDHC 32GB Class 10 UHS-1 come in either 40MBs or a Red topped version that says 94MBs, at lest that is what I am finding online. The 40MBs should work for prores???

You are quoting rated speeds described by Sony aren't you? Those numbers usually mean read speeds, not write speeds, and probably assume compressible data. You just don't know how they test them and it is wise to ignore their claims frankly.

When my earlier post referred to 41MB/s, that was the speed Measured by Blackmagic Speed Test. Card vendors are very shy about posting write speeds. And if they did, they aren't as reliable as being used in the camera and proven to be free of dropped frames. At least we trust Blackmagic Speed Test as a reasonably good indicator. Nothing beats hearing from those who use the cards in the camera of course.

Rick Lang
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Where do I download the "Blackmagic Speed Test", I do not see it on the Website support page, is it for both Mac & PC?

[Kristian Lam]

Hi guys,

Why not just use the list we have on the Pocket Cinema Camera FAQ?

Mostly cost of course, the listed SD cards are on the high end. With the recording times listed I would need several cards and batteries for an average shoot.

Hi guys,

Why not just use the list we have on the Pocket Cinema Camera FAQ?

Well, that list is rather short. There are other (less expensive) candidates that might work well for the Pocket CC, i think it's legit to ask other users about their experiences.

So is the "Blackmagic Speed Test" only for Mac?

Hi guys,

Why not just use the list we have on the Pocket Cinema Camera FAQ?

Kristian, the problem with your list has been mentioned many times before. Here we go again.

Yes, your list specifies media you have verified working correctly, but it does not list media which has failed and why it failed. If you included the failed devices, people would know what works, what doesn't, and what has been tested. Without the additional lists of failed devices and why, we are in the dark about every product not on your pass list. We have no way of knowing that the product has been tested or has been ignored and never tested.

What in the world has BMD so afraid to simply list the devices that fail and why they failed?

Apologies if I'm being a bit curt here, but you've read my requests regarding your approach to the list before and never addressed them.

Rick Lang
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

I'm supposed to get my cards today... In the package I have a 41mb/s Delkin card. I'll let you guys know if it works!

Thanks

So is the "Blackmagic Speed Test" only for Mac?

No answer on this?
If it is not available for Windows, I can test my cards with H2testw

I found it in the Intensity Pro software download

Not sure if anyone is making a list of SD cards that work on the BMPCC and cards that don't?
(other than the BMD recommended SD Cards)
I just tried the pro Master Code 6416 32GB SDHC and differently had a lot of dropouts.

I really don't know of any company that lists unapproved cards. I understand many of the cards on the list are pricier, however why run the risk of cards which are un-approved? And in truth, it's not as though those cards will only work on the pocket camera (liek P2 cards, or SxS for a long while were camera specific and substantially more expensive)-- you can use those SD cards for your black magic, if you have a vDSLR to shoot with that, or even charge them to production as an expendable or archive your own stuff to them. One or two cards to rule them all.

Using non approved cards, regardless of one or two cursory tests, just seems like a quick way to run into a quagmire on a paid shoot.

Hi guys,

Why not just use the list we have on the Pocket Cinema Camera FAQ?

Kristian, the problem with your list has been mentioned many times before. Here we go again.

Yes, your list specifies media you have verified working correctly, but it does not list media which has failed and why it failed. If you included the failed devices, people would know what works, what doesn't, and what has been tested. Without the additional lists of failed devices and why, we are in the dark about every product not on your pass list. We have no way of knowing that the product has been tested or has been ignored and never tested.

What in the world has BMD so afraid to simply list the devices that fail and why they failed?

Apologies if I'm being a bit curt here, but you've read my requests regarding your approach to the list before and never addressed them.

Rick Lang
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

I think they have said it was bad business to list what doesn't work and I imagine that list would be rather long. But Here is my list of what doesn't work

Once I formatted my cards to exfat they were recognized but drop frames after 4 seconds. Sony uhs1 40mbs 32gb, Sandisk 64gb 30mbps and sandisk extreme 16gb. I have an approved Sandisk extreme 64gb on the way so hopefully that won't give me the dreaded blinking record signal.

Has anyone tried these?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/9 ... emory.html

Rated at 200mbs/2gbs

Has anyone tried these?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/9 ... emory.html

Rated at 200mbs/2gbs

Seems like way overkill for ProRes but I'm wonder if the real reason why DNG is not out yet for Pocket is that BMD is looking at compressed DNG and finding the Extreme Pro (and maybe other cards) just aren't fast enough. If that's the case I wouldn't be too surprised if the card you point to becomes the approved DNG card.

Seems like way overkill for ProRes but I'm wonder if the real reason why DNG is not out yet for Pocket is that BMD is looking at compressed DNG and finding the Extreme Pro (and maybe other cards) just aren't fast enough. If that's the case I wouldn't be too surprised if the card you point to becomes the approved DNG card.

Unless there's a typo in the specs, that Panasonic SD card is rated at 250MB/s read and 25MB/s write (MB = Mb * 8), so in terms of writes it looks to be even slower than the regular Sandisk Extreme cards.

And of course it's only a "maximum write speed", meaning they don't guarantee any particular speed. Probably does write really fast until some internal buffer is full, then slows down to true write speed of the memory chips, which is not given.

Seems like way overkill for ProRes but I'm wonder if the real reason why DNG is not out yet for Pocket is that BMD is looking at compressed DNG and finding the Extreme Pro (and maybe other cards) just aren't fast enough. If that's the case I wouldn't be too surprised if the card you point to becomes the approved DNG card.

Unless there's a typo in the specs, that Panasonic SD card is rated at 250MB/s read and 25MB/s write (MB = Mb * 8), so in terms of writes it looks to be even slower than the regular Sandisk Extreme cards.

Not sure what your exactly reading?

Read Speed Maximum: 2.0 Gb/s
Write Speed Maximum: 200 Mb/s

Mb and MB are 2 different things. That card would only just be fast enough for Prores at 25fps, and not fast enough for Prores at 30fps.

Mb/s is usually translated to Mbit/s, while MB/s usually means MByte/s. So 200 Mb/s equals 25 MB/s, which isn't enough for ProRes recording of the Pocket CC.

200 MByte/s would be insanely fast for a SD-card, especially as only the latest version of the interface and protocol would support such fast transfers, and even that just barely. This is just a marketing trick, trying to sell an outdated product in a competitive market ruled by numbers.

Tried Sony SDXC UHS_1 SF64UX/TQN 64GB cards rated at 94MB/s. Shooting ProRes at 29.97fps and still many frames dropped. Would lower the frames rate help?

BTW did order a SanDisk 64GB Extreme 64G SDXC SD SDSDXS-064G-X46 Class 10 80MB/s UHS-I 533X Card, if that does not work I will try the costly Extreme Pro.

Has anybody tried the Trancend Ultimates? Half the price for twice the storage over the Sandisk ones. I know it says "up to" 90MB/s r/w but if someone could do a speed test that would be great.
128GB SDXC Ultimate 600x Class 10 UHS-1 Memory Card & 64GB SDXC Ultimate 600x Class 10 UHS-1 Memory Card

Has anyone tried these?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/9 ... emory.html

Rated at 200mbs/2gbs

Seems like way overkill for ProRes but I'm wonder if the real reason why DNG is not out yet for Pocket is that BMD is looking at compressed DNG and finding the Extreme Pro (and maybe other cards) just aren't fast enough. If that's the case I wouldn't be too surprised if the card you point to becomes the approved DNG card.

These are meant to replace the old p2 cards. I wonder if they will even be compatible with other cameras other than the newer Pannys.

Tried Sony SDXC UHS_1 SF64UX/TQN 64GB cards rated at 94MB/s. Shooting ProRes at 29.97fps and still many frames dropped. Would lower the frames rate help?

BTW did order a SanDisk 64GB Extreme 64G SDXC SD SDSDXS-064G-X46 Class 10 80MB/s UHS-I 533X Card, if that does not work I will try the costly Extreme Pro.

You'll be fine with the 80 MB/s SanDisk Extreme, as it's listed by Blackmagic to be compatible. The Pro version is unnecessary at this moment, in comparison, probably even after CinemaDNG.

However, the BMPC is fussy about SD cards that actually have plenty headroom for the spec. Here are two extremely accurate, independent tests of cards that far exceed the write speeds necessary for ProRes 422 (HQ) at 30 fps, including the Sony you mentioned. They both get persistent dropped frames:

HDTune Test - Sony 64gb.png (39.82 KiB) Viewed 34970 times

HDTune Test - PNY 128gb.png (40.31 KiB) Viewed 34970 times

Here are two extremely accurate, independent tests of cards that far exceed the write speeds necessary for ProRes 422 (HQ) at 30 fps

Both cards don't "far exceed" the 45 MB/s often quoted to be the lower limit for BMPCC ProRes recording. Calculating only Apples official datarates of 220 mbit/s (ProRes 422 HQ 1080@30) one would assume that 28 mbytes/s should suffice; but it seems that audio and processing overhead raise that to significantly higher rates, all officially supported cards are rated at least 45 MB/s.

I got my BMPCC this afternoon and the only San Disk Extreme card I could find in town was the 16GB Extreme 80/60. I have shot a few tests with it and it seems to work just fine, no dropped frames. I figure this card will give me 10 to 12 minutes with prores and was fairly easy to find at Walmart for $25. I have an Extreme Pro on order but couldn't wait to start shooting.

My experience with several cards:

Transcend UHS (64gb)
I got a lot of dropped frames with these cards. Slow mowing and simple scenes would be no problem, but as soon as I had movement or a lot of detail frames would drop. I sent them back.

Sandisk Extreme Pro (90mbs)
Work great! Had no problem whatsoever.

Sandisk Extreme (45mbs)
It seems there is a difference in how cards are built depending on their size. I've got dropped frames with the 32gb one but none with the 128 which have been working great and are great for long documentary shoots where I got more than 1 hour and 20 minutes of shooting out of them.

my opinion: I would only go with cards that are certified by blackmagic just to be on the safe side

Here are two extremely accurate, independent tests of cards that far exceed the write speeds necessary for ProRes 422 (HQ) at 30 fps

Both cards don't "far exceed" the 45 MB/s often quoted to be the lower limit for BMPCC ProRes recording. Calculating only Apples official datarates of 220 mbit/s (ProRes 422 HQ 1080@30) one would assume that 28 mbytes/s should suffice; but it seems that audio and processing overhead raise that to significantly higher rates, all officially supported cards are rated at least 45 MB/s.

Nope. Again, I'm saying (with accurate technical data) that the BMPC is fussy about cards regardless of capability. Here is the exact same test as the ones I just posted above, this time using the SanDisk Extreme non-Pro card rated at a 45 MB/s read speed:

HDTune Test - SanDisk Extreme non-Pro 64gb.png (38.5 KiB) Viewed 34733 times

So despite never dropping frames, it simply has an inferior write speed -- under the exact same circumstances -- in comparison to the PNY and Sony SD cards that do drop frames with higher write speeds.

Well, that's interesting. Might be you are right and the camera is picky about the cards - there are combinations of card controllers and reader/writer chipsets that just don't play nice together. But before we jump to that conclusion, may i ask what reader/writer device you tested the card with? It's still possible that the card is faster inside the bmpcc than inside the device you tested it with...

Yet from your findigs i would say you just can't rely on the speed measurements alone to indicate whether a specific card will record without dropped frames. As for now we should stick to the few cards BMD approved... At the moment this means about 1€ per GB storage capacity for the 64 and 128 gb cards, at least here in germany. Won't buy one though until i finally get my hand on that elusive camera...

Well, that's interesting. Might be you are right and the camera is picky about the cards - there are combinations of card controllers and reader/writer chipsets that just don't play nice together. But before we jump to that conclusion, may i ask what reader/writer device you tested the card with? It's still possible that the card is faster inside the bmpcc than inside the device you tested it with...

Yet from your findigs i would say you just can't rely on the speed measurements alone to indicate whether a specific card will record without dropped frames. As for now we should stick to the few cards BMD approved... At the moment this means about 1€ per GB storage capacity for the 64 and 128 gb cards, at least here in germany. Won't buy one though until i finally get my hand on that elusive camera...

For the integrity of the comparison, I've of course subjected all three SD cards to the exact same interfaces and conditions -- you can't test card speed inside the BMPC with metrics output -- and I'm using a Kingston USB 3.0 card reader into a USB 3.0 port with combined headroom well past these SD cards for transfer rates to/from flash media. The notion that certain "combinations of card controllers and reader/writer chipsets...just don't play nice together" is lacking in science and I am wanting to know more than just that theme (without the refrain that there's an approved list).

I had a Transcend UHS-1 64GB card which dropped me some frames. Not doing the same mistake again, so I bought a Sandisk Extreme Pro 64GB (one which is listed as supported). No point of buing a 1000 USD/EUR camera and try to save a few bucks just to ruin your footage with dropped frames.

As somebody here said, the BMPCC doesn't have any kind of buffering like all consumer cameras do, but instead it writes the stream directly to the card, so you can't afford any kind of hiccups during the recording. Just stick with the supported card list and avoid a lot of hassle.

I purchased two 32gig Sony SDHC Class 10 cards (the one reviewed by GearAddix). They seem to record fine up until the three min thirty second mark. Then they start dropping frames. I also bought three of the 64gig version and they all dropped frames immediately.

Anyone using the recommended SanDisk cards having issues recording over three and a half minutes? I probably should have bought them in the beginning, but I tried to be cheap.

As an alternative I'm thinking about getting an Atomos Ninja 2 so I don't have to worry about dropped frames. And it might be nice for when the camera upgrades to RAW. Anyone have thoughts on that?

Thanks for the help.

The Sony cards probably have internal buffers to achieve better performance. This will help with image bursts from DSLRs, but not with continuos video recordings: once the buffers are fully filled the card can't accept more data at the same fast pace, in your case this happens after 3 minutes.

I purchased two 32gig Sony SDHC Class 10 cards (the one reviewed by GearAddix). They seem to record fine up until the three min thirty second mark. Then they start dropping frames. I also bought three of the 64gig version and they all dropped frames immediately.

Anyone using the recommended SanDisk cards having issues recording over three and a half minutes? I probably should have bought them in the beginning, but I tried to be cheap.

As an alternative I'm thinking about getting an Atomos Ninja 2 so I don't have to worry about dropped frames. And it might be nice for when the camera upgrades to RAW. Anyone have thoughts on that?

Thanks for the help.

You can't record raw on the Atomos Ninja, only SD Cards.

I erased and reformatted a 16GB SanDisk Extreme Pro Series 10 UHS-1 45MB/s SD card to try with my Pocket Cinema Camera. I find intermittent freezes, occasional perfect takes, but enough issues to say this card is not up to snuff. Having SSD Cards for my Blackmagic HyperDeck Shuttle 2, I believe I am going to craft a method to record to SSD and to power from Lithium rechargeable battery packs. Coming from shooting 35mm Panavision and Arriflex 35BLs, the tiny nature of adding a few small facilities to the Pocket Cinema Camera seem a no-brainer in light of my feature film level purposing for this camera.

The problem lies in the amateur nature of HDMI connectors. To solve this issue, I am going to fabricate a custom cheeseplate for the HyperDeck Shuttle which captures the HDMI connector when connected, such that it becomes one with the HyperDeck Shuttle and cannot be accidentally dislodged. A similar mod will be attached to the camera itself. HDMI is a good interface relative to image quality, but it would be nice were there a more robust connection scheme for it outside the confines of a home theater.

There is also a very detailed note by PKent at Blackmagicuser.net

--
For ProRes HQ (220Mbps~27.5MB/s), most of the cards above 40MB/s will work well theoretically.

Yes that was me and now that I have my Blackmagic Pocket I could do some tests and it would seem Blackmagic isn't playing by the rules. I bought the cheapest 64GB card on my list (a $30 PNY Professional X 64GB "35mbps" SD card), the Blackmagic Speed Tester app has it clocking in at 61MB/s write speeds but it drops frames while a (far more expensive) $70 SanDisk Extreme "45Mbps" 64GB SD card which is clocking at 43Mbps write speed is not dropping any frames. Apparently Blackmagic designed the Pocket to only work with their list of approved SD cards regardless of write speed (though I truly hope that is not the case and there is a legitimate explanation).

Hi guys,

Why not just use the list we have on the --Pocket Cinema Camera FAQ[/url]?

Kristian, the problem with your list has been mentioned many times before. Here we go again.

Yes, your list specifies media you have verified working correctly, but it does not list media which has failed and why it failed. ...

What in the world has BMD so afraid to simply list the devices that fail and why they failed?

Apologies if I'm being a bit curt here, but you've read my requests regarding your approach to the list before and never addressed them.

Rick Lang
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

I agree, I want to know why this faster card is failing compared to the more expensive slower card.

However, the BMPC is fussy about SD cards that actually have plenty headroom for the spec. Here are two extremely accurate, independent tests of cards that far exceed the write speeds necessary for ProRes 422 (HQ) at 30 fps, including the Sony you mentioned. They both get persistent dropped frames:

HDTune Test - Sony 64gb.png

HDTune Test - PNY 128gb.png

This is supporting that theory of Blackmagic favoring certain card manufacturers.

Here are two extremely accurate, independent tests of cards that far exceed the write speeds necessary for ProRes 422 (HQ) at 30 fps

Both cards don't "far exceed" the 45 MB/s often quoted to be the lower limit for BMPCC ProRes recording. Calculating only Apples official datarates of 220 mbit/s (ProRes 422 HQ 1080@30) one would assume that 28 mbytes/s should suffice; but it seems that audio and processing overhead raise that to significantly higher rates, all officially supported cards are rated at least 45 MB/s.

Good point but the Pocket is recording audio in 24-bit at 48kHz which would add 281.25KB/s at most
{24-bits per sample sampled at 4,8000Hz (48Khz)
1,152,000 bits per second
1,152,000 divided into bytes(by 8) then kilobytes(by 1024) =140.625KB per second}

and any meta data that needs recording would be even smaller and only need to be written once per recording, not every second. I don't think the dropped frames have anything to do with Card write speed.

Here are two extremely accurate, independent tests of cards that far exceed the write speeds necessary for ProRes 422 (HQ) at 30 fps

Both cards don't "far exceed" the 45 MB/s often quoted to be the lower limit for BMPCC ProRes recording. Calculating only Apples official datarates of 220 mbit/s (ProRes 422 HQ 1080@30) one would assume that 28 mbytes/s should suffice; but it seems that audio and processing overhead raise that to significantly higher rates, all officially supported cards are rated at least 45 MB/s.

Nope. Again, I'm saying (with accurate technical data) that the BMPC is fussy about cards regardless of capability. Here is the exact same test as the ones I just posted above, this time using the SanDisk Extreme non-Pro card rated at a 45 MB/s read speed:

HDTune Test - SanDisk Extreme non-Pro 64gb.png

So despite never dropping frames, it simply has an inferior write speed -- under the exact same circumstances -- in comparison to the PNY and Sony SD cards that do drop frames with higher write speeds.

I would just like to emphasize this again, 28MB/s is enough for ProRes 422 HQ with audio and metadata as proved by this test. It looks like Blackmagic made a deal with SanDisk lol (...which isn't really funny).

As somebody here said, the BMPCC doesn't have any kind of buffering like all consumer cameras do, but instead it writes the stream directly to the card, so you can't afford any kind of hiccups during the recording.

I thought this had to be the case too, I recently heard a Bm Rep say that the same cards are required for Raw and ProRes, which implied that without internal buffers the Pocket was always writing Raw footage to the card then compressing the frames to ProRes there but that doesn't explain why the $70 SanDisk Extreme 45MB/s cards can write video without dropped frames so the camera has to have some kind of internal buffer. Plus if the Pocket really was already writing Raw then why wasn't Raw recording released with the camera?

I've mentioned it before and it's exactly the same experience when the Sony EX1 started to use SD cards, It's not simply the speed of the card but, apparently, the controller built into the card. Some work better than others. Sandisk also worked unusually well with the EX cameras.

[... which implied that without internal buffers the Pocket was always writing Raw footage to the card then compressing the frames to ProRes there

LOL, that's funny.

No really, there is no way to do that. There are many factors, like the controller, the software andwhatnot.
Keep in mind, that write speed is perfect for marketing - bigger numbers always sale better and the average Joe Shmuck will never come close to them anyway, with his point and shoot box.

Like with the SSDs, they often advertise speeds like 500MB/s - but only when they are able to compress the data on the fly. For the BMC, you need a SSD that can get up to that speed without compressing, so people got dropped frames like mad, cause they only looked at the advertised speed (and the price) instead at the official list.

Save yourself some trouble and stick to the list - or forget the list and buy Sandisk SSDs and cards - I use them in the Pocket and the BMCs and never had any trouble or dropped frames (except with one fake card from Ebay).

The Sandisk 64 GB Extreme Pro is the only card that doesn't make any problems with the most extreme settings (aka hacks) on the Panasonic GH2. Go figure – they must be doing something better than others.

This discussion is rather silly, because you can't distill card performance down to a single number. The cards are complex things, and their performance will depend on exactly how you write to them: writes of what size, how often, for how long, to a card in what state. And of course there are buffers, in the card and in the camera. Just because one card can support a certain sustained write speed with some host writing a certain way doesn't mean it will perform that way in the BMPCC the way the BMPCC writes to it.

The bottom line is that no description of card performance can replace testing of the actual card in the actual host device. If you want a rule of thumb, it's simple: buy SanDisk Extreme Pro cards from authorized SanDisk resellers. Time and again these cards have been shown to be better performers and more reliable than other brands. It's a miracle that SD cards work at all. They're held together with tiny bits of chewing gum and string. Cards wear out and break. If you cheap out on your cards in a high performance application like the BMPCC you're just asking for problems. I'm cheap just like the rest of you, but when you finish a shoot with no recording problems and you get that footage safely off the card, are you going to regret having spent the money and wished you'd saved a bit so you could take the risk of missing your shot?