Blackmagic Forum

Hi,

Does anyone know if the Samsung T7 Touch SSD works with the MBPCC 6K, and whether it's faster than the T5 to the extent that it can be used to record in 6K RAW?

Thanks

If it is not in this list, it is not recommended: https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/support/faq/59026
Just because a drive or disk works, does not mean it will work correctly or reliably. A new release of a drive, while it appears to be an upgrade, may have a different FW that may or may not work correctly on the camera. All portable SSDs are really computer portable data drives, and were not made for the demands of video recording. That said, some are good enough, that they work.

On the other hand CFast cards were designed for video capture and work more reliably, and are the recording media of choice for my use.
Cheers

Denny Smith wrote:If it is not in this list, it is not recommended: https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/support/faq/59026

The Samsung T7 was only launched three months ago and we don’t know whether Blackmagic has even tested them.

B&H says that these SSDs should work with the Blackmagic 4K/6K, but I haven’t read of anyone trying it.

Recognising that the limiting factor is read/write, I think that the question is whether these SSDs are more efficient than the T5 SSDs within those limits.

That was my point, it is a new, relatively untested (it may be in the process of being tested) drive. Use it at your own risk, at this point, then perhaps you can post your results here to help others...
Cheers

Kim Janson wrote:It looks like inexpensive and fast (double the speed of T5) SSD. Not sure how the finger print reader would work with the camera?

Would be nice if BMD test it.

My understanding is that a non-fingerprint version is imminent. I’ve also read, but can’t confirm, that the fingerprint feature can be disabled.

I can share that the T7 is not working my Video Assist 12G HDR. I was able to format the drive attached but within milliseconds after starting to record it flashes a red ! in the lower right corner and stops, resolution/codec/framerate doesn't seem to make a difference.

I have no problem copying files to the T7 when it's attached to my computer at 600MB/s+.

I bought this T7 disk and connected to the new one BMPCC6k.
Just in case I upgraded camera's software to the new one.
But unfortunatelly it doesn't work.

Camera recognizes it but you can not record anything, even a second.
If you press record button you get error immediately.

I don't know what's going on.

Guys, as Kristian Lamp has pointed out, the T7 is Not on the BMD approved media list. Get the T5, which has been tested. The Samsung specs are for computer packet writing speeds, not continuous video recording.
Cheers

Denny Smith wrote:Guys, as Kristian Lamp has pointed out, the T7 is Not on the BMD approved media list. Get the T5, which has been tested. The Samsung specs are for computer packet writing speeds, not continuous video recording.
Cheers

Thanks Denny - we realize that. As many SSDs not official on the list do also work, it was worth a shot. I would think it's a reasonable assumption that BM will add support for the T7 in the near future, being the higher performing successor to the T5. Perhaps they are waiting for the non fingerprint reader model to be released...

It has to be frustrating when a vendor offers a product that is so much better than its predecessors and yet it fails as you discovered when applied to BMD video. These very large manufacturers are targeting the typical computer user and I’m confident they don’t own recent BMD cameras to test their products for suitability.

I’m not saying this is the case with this particular drive, but vendors have been known to base their claims using data that fits within a limited high-speed cache or performance that is only sustained when a fraction of the drive’s capacity is used such as the first layer of a multi-layer cell design. BMD testing uses the entire capacity of all cell layers.

For those needing a comparable product, please consider the Wise Advanced Portable SSD or similar product as they do own the new Pocket cameras and they verify they’ll work. I believe Angelbird also tests their products with their BMD camera.

I don’t like sounding like a broken record, but I’m hoping folks that are considering this type of solution will make their purchases according to BMD’s approved drives or based on Wise Advanced or Angelbird’s own assurances of compatibility after their own testing with BMD cameras. Sometimes the least expensive solution isn’t a solution.

I would think it's a reasonable assumption that BM will add support for the T7 in the near future...

Sorry, but you have got this the wrong way round. BMD firmware supports a specific class of recording media, and has chosen drives that meet BMD’s recording standard, not the other way round. Camera FW is not tailored for any specific drive, but rather for a drive that can provide the sustained writing throughput recording a continuous video requires.

BMD tests specific drives, and determines which ones will work with BMD specifications, then those drives/cards are added to the list. It appears the Samsung T7 didn’t pass the test, and is not suitable for recording the high bandwidth video signal from BMD cameras. Yes not all SSD cards have been tested, but quite a few have been. Some non-tested/approved cards Work for some recording applications, normally for short takes less than 10 minutes, but I would not put a project or job at risk using one, just to save a few $£€.
Time to move on and get a card that is on the list.
Cheers

Denny Smith wrote:

The Samsung T7 didn’t pass the test, and is not suitable for recording the high bandwidth video signal from BMD cameras.

I must have missed that, could you point me to where they shared it "didn't pass the test"? It's certainly not for the lack of throughput capability of the drive...

It could be any number of things that BM's USB mass storage driver are currently incompatible with, USB 3.2, fingerprint reader etc etc, so no, I don't think I have it "the wrong way round".

Denny Smith wrote:

Time to move on and get a card that is on the list.

I have a couple of T5s that works just great... and is on the list.

I do not know why the T7 did not pass muster, but for whatever reason, it does not work. Your comment about BMD should update camera FW to make a particular media card work, is not the first time. This came up last year over the changes SanDisk made to their Extreme Pro SD cards, and they no longer worked. BMD started then, they work with media manufacturers, providing the specs needed for BMD compatibility, and camera FW updates were not the solution to incompatible recording media.

I didn’t intend to be sharp with you on this, my apologies. Yes, the T7 issue could be the USB interface, the fingerprint security feature, or a host of reasons, which prevents it working. Since their are SSD drives that do work, and have been tested, I was just suggesting using one on the list, which is why BMD created the list. Not all SSD drive, or all SD cards are going to work. This has been the case since the first camera was made, and the first Hyperdeck recording to a SSD drive was released.

robedge wrote:My understanding is that a non-fingerprint version is imminent.

Samsung has now released the T7 without fingerprint verification: https://www.macrumors.com/2020/05/19/sa ... -launches/

B&H has it for preorder, $20 cheaper than the “Touch” version: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... e_ssd.html

Capacities up to 2TB.

I’ve been changing from hard drives to SSDs for external storage, except for backups/archives, for the last 18 months, and will be purchasing one or two of these.

Denny Smith wrote:This came up last year over the changes SanDisk made to their Extreme Pro SD cards, and they no longer worked. BMD started then, they work with media manufacturers, providing the specs needed for BMD compatibility, and camera FW updates were not the solution to incompatible recording media.

Ah that's interesting, let's see how the T7 plays out in the future, more hopeful for the sensorless version.

B&H now has the no-touch Samsung T7 in stock. It's selling the 1TB T7 for US$200 and the 1TB T5 for $180. The T7 is much faster.

Don't buy the T7 non-fingerprint, it doesn't work either. I picked one up today (T7 1TB non-fingerprint) at BB. It doesn't appear to be a problem with the speed of the card. It worked on Constant Quality Q5 setting at 6K at up to ISO 1000 or lower, all frame rates, but nothing else about it works, not Prores, not BRAW 12:1, 8:1, 5:1, 3:1 or Q0. None of those work, not even HD resolution. Funny that it works at Q5 but not above ISO 1000. In all cases, as before with the fingerprint version, recording stops as soon as you press the record button even at the lowest bit rates. I formatted exFAT in PC (slow format), then formatted again in camera (P6K), doesn't matter. For now, stick with the T5.

Just bought the Samsung T7 SSD non-touch. Great read+write speeds but will NOT work with BMPCC4K. It records for less than a second and stops. Do NOT buy it if you're looking for an SSD to use with your camera, just go for the T5. The T7 will be good for fast external data transfer, just not with the Blackmagic cameras yet. Hopefully this is solved in some future update on either Samsung's or Blackmagic's end.

Kim Janson wrote:I had similar problems wit T5 when using USB C cable that did not support full speed. Did you test that cable with computer, if it provides the fast speeds?

I used Pocket 6K with T7 and the USB C cable that ships in the box.

Kim Janson wrote:I had similar problems wit T5 when using USB C cable that did not support full speed. Did you test that cable with computer, if it provides the fast speeds?

Yes - see my first post above, 600MB/s on computer

I don't think problem with no-touch T7 has anything to do with read or write speed. To wit:

1.) On P6K works on Q5 BRAW at all frame size and all frame rates.
2.) Works at ISO 1000 and below. Does not work when ISO is 1250 or higher on any setting of codec, frame size or frame rate.
3.) Does not work in Prores at all, even for HD recording.
4.) Does work if 1.) and 2.) (above) are respected.

Although I purchased this in the hope of being able to record BRAW at 3:1 or Q0, I could have lived within its limitations if not for 2.) (above). I am returning it to the retailer today.

I received a non-fingerprint 1TB T7 yesterday. These drives are appreciably faster than the T5, and I have uses for them whether they eventually work with my Pocket 4K or not. Even if they do, the question will be whether they are more efficient than a T5 in that use.

On the camera storage side, thanks very much to Tom Roper for his test results.

The 1TB is currently US$200 at B&H and Amazon U.S., which is 0.20 cents per GB. It looks to me like the T5, which is only $20 cheaper, is either going to be phased out as a product or the price is going to come down significantly. B&H currently has the 1TB T5 "on sale" for $170.

I send the T7 Touch back and bought an Angelbird SSD2GO PKT MK2 - 1TB, and it works perfectly with 6k.

Have you had any luck with the non-Touch T7?

Tom Roper wrote:I don't think problem with no-touch T7 has anything to do with read or write speed. To wit:

1.) On P6K works on Q5 BRAW at all frame size and all frame rates.
2.) Works at ISO 1000 and below. Does not work when ISO is 1250 or higher on any setting of codec, frame size or frame rate.
3.) Does not work in Prores at all, even for HD recording.
4.) Does work if 1.) and 2.) (above) are respected.

Although I purchased this in the hope of being able to record BRAW at 3:1 or Q0, I could have lived within its limitations if not for 2.) (above). I am returning it to the retailer today.

Yep. I doubt this drive is slower than T5 in any area. Fact it won’t record ProRes HD clearly shows that problem is not with speed, but deeper compatibility issue with BM cameras.

If you check the reviews, T7 is actually slower than T5, for sequential writes larger than the buffer. Which is exactly what we need. However this cannot be the issue.

It does use 4W peak power, the T5 only 2.5 W peak. Maybe that is just too much for the bmpcc4k ?

Tom Roper wrote:I don't think problem with no-touch T7 has anything to do with read or write speed. To wit:

1.) On P6K works on Q5 BRAW at all frame size and all frame rates.
2.) Works at ISO 1000 and below. Does not work when ISO is 1250 or higher on any setting of codec, frame size or frame rate.
3.) Does not work in Prores at all, even for HD recording.
4.) Does work if 1.) and 2.) (above) are respected.

Although I purchased this in the hope of being able to record BRAW at 3:1 or Q0, I could have lived within its limitations if not for 2.) (above). I am returning it to the retailer today.

I found this thread after I had put the order in for the T7, and can confirm what Tom has found. Not happy with the result as that is too limiting for the work we do. I guess we will have to sell it.

Darryl

And from another website:

Like prior portable Samsung NVMe SSDs, such as the Samsung X5 (review), the T7 Touch is subject to throttling once it reaches a certain temperature during a sustained file transfer operation. For smaller files, the speed increase will be readily apparent, but larger files that cause the drive’s flash media to heat up, which in turn activates throttling, making speeds come back down to earth for a period of time.

Things like not writing any ProRes at all might be an issue for BMD, but the throttling back is fair and square in Samsung's court, and given that it is a heat issue, it is probably a mechanical redesign that is required to get something to work at sustained loads.

Darryl

I have been getting good deals on refurbished Samsung T5 1Tb SSDs from Best Buy for my BMPCC 4K. I have paid as little as $109.95 USD for them on sale (Black Friday). I have been keeping an eye on the 2Tb T5 and they have been sold out with no new stock for over a week now. I am wondering if this has been discontinued.

Could this be the end of really cheap storage for our cameras?

Just try to find someone selling a T1 SSD.

dondidnod wrote:I have been keeping an eye on the 2Tb T5 and they have been sold out with no new stock for over a week now. I am wondering if this has been discontinued.

Could this be the end of really cheap storage for our cameras?

Just try to find someone selling a T1 SSD.

The regular, non-sale price difference between T7 and T5 SSDs suggests that the T5 may be on the way out.

Just looked at prices at Best Buy, the retailer you mention. It's selling the 2TB T5 for $330 and the non-fingerprint 2TB T7 for $350. Leaving aside Blackmagic cameras, and maybe cases where thermal throttling might be a factor, it isn't a hard decision.

I suppose the optimistic scenario is that the T5 remains in the lineup at much lower prices.

Is the Angelbird drive the way to go then?

https://www.angelbird.com/prod/match-pa ... tegory=210

I'm brand new to BM products (just got the Ursa G2) and stupidly presumed the T7 would work, it doesn't...it gives me alternating record times of 19 and 20 frames. It is actually dropping frames continuously. The only compatible SSD list I can find on here though refers to the 6K cinema camera not the 4.6K G2, is there a specific list for the latter floating around?

After being out of stock for weeks, Best Buy has the Samsung.T5 2TB SSD back in stock. This is good news, although it is no longer discounted.

christangey wrote:I'm brand new to BM products (just got the Ursa G2) and stupidly presumed the T7 would work, it doesn't...it gives me alternating record times of 19 and 20 frames. It is actually dropping frames continuously. The only compatible SSD list I can find on here though refers to the 6K cinema camera not the 4.6K G2, is there a specific list for the latter floating around?

3rd choice here

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/support/faq/59015

JB

Seems kind of absurd to me. The idea that the latest Samsung drive can't sustain 100MB/s for all of two seconds seems implausible, so I'm thinking it's a software issue. B&H says the qualified Samsung T5 drives are discontinued, so why not hard charge to make the T7 work? I just got the camera and T7, didn't work, and thought I was dead in the water and couldn't even test this weekend. I popped in a basic $40 microSD card from my Nikon (SanDisk - Extreme PLUS 128GB) and it recorded RAW 12:1 just fine. In no world is this little SanDisk microSD better than the T7. My first Blackmagic product - is this what I can expect from Blackmagic? Should I just return the card or the whole camera? It's only been two days so I could do either.

Have you tried the BMD speedtest app ?

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/blackmagi ... 4550?mt=12

It’s designed to test media performance specifically with large video files. Which are not what 99% of T7 buyers would be using their drive for....

JB

John that's a good idea. Here are the results:


If the image won't load - it's 849.1 MB/s write, 921.1 MB/s read. Everything is checked except for 10 Bit YUV 4:2:2 2160p50 and 2160p60.

Anyone have the T5 for test result comparison?

bradkean wrote:If the image won't load - it's 849.1 MB/s write, 921.1 MB/s read. Everything is checked except for 10 Bit YUV 4:2:2 2160p50 and 2160p60.

Can confirm that the T7 doesn't work under Camera firmware 7.0. And it's still not on the list. I just bought it today because the 2TB T5 wasn't in stock, so I just assumed it was working since the T5 was working... No such luck :-/ And the T5 2TB seems not widely available anymore. Dang it. The T5 has been so good to me, I need a second one!

My old T5 gets 471.3 MB/s write, 512.0 MB/s read for me. (Starting to tick out at 10 Bit YUV 422 2160p25.)
My new T7 gets the same speed as you.

Had the same question and reached out to BM. Here's their reply:

Hello,

Thanks for getting in touch with us.

Samsung T7 drives are not supported on the Pocket Cinema Camera 6K. I'll submit a feature request for future support on your behalf.

I do apologize for the inconvenience. Please let me know if you have any further questions.


Kind regards,

Brett Smylie
Technical Support Representative
Blackmagic Design Inc.

I was wondering if it now works with the BMPCC 6K Pro?

JuanMNavedo wrote:I was wondering if it now works with the BMPCC 6K Pro?

The T7 will probably NEVER work for recording with the cameras. Don't get blinded by Samsung's marketing speech of up to MB/s. It is a nice drive for hooking up to a computer. While on a computer it can use system resources to hide its deficiencies, on the camera there are much more limited resources.

Samsung choose not to use DRAM cache like more expensive SSDs do and only relies on their TurboWrite cache. Because of their QLC flash cells they are using SLC flash cells as write buffer - that's where you get the advertised speed. When that buffer gets filled up then write speed becomes super slow.
And the cache size is related to the SSD capacity - so smaller drives have smaller SLC cache sizes.

You can see this in this test of Tom's Hardware in chapter "Sustained Write Performance, Cache Recovery, and Temperature":

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/sa ... d-review/2

After an initial write speed of 867 MB/s it drops to 337 MB/s

The problem with T7 is that it uses Buffer to reach its high speed.
It works great for copy of sequential files like Photos and such but recording video fills up the puffer really quick and the continuous speed drops way below continuous speed of T5

Johannes Jonsson wrote:The problem with T7 is that it uses Buffer to reach its high speed.
It works great for copy of sequential files like Photos and such but recording video fills up the puffer really quick and the continuous speed drops way below continuous speed of T5

Will there/Is there an SSD drive better than the T5 for recording from the BMPCC 6K Pro in terms of speed? It's a shame that the camera has USB-C yet utilizing none of its top speed to comfortably shoot 6K BRAW at the lowest compression and various frame speeds.

Robert Niessner wrote:

JuanMNavedo wrote:I was wondering if it now works with the BMPCC 6K Pro?

The T7 will probably NEVER work for recording with the cameras. Don't get blinded by Samsung's marketing speech of up to MB/s. It is a nice drive for hooking up to a computer. While on a computer it can use system resources to hide its deficiencies, on the camera there are much more limited resources.

Samsung choose not to use DRAM cache like more expensive SSDs do and only relies on their TurboWrite cache. Because of their QLC flash cells they are using SLC flash cells as write buffer - that's where you get the advertised speed. When that buffer gets filled up then write speed becomes super slow.
And the cache size is related to the SSD capacity - so smaller drives have smaller SLC cache sizes.

You can see this in this test of Tom's Hardware in chapter "Sustained Write Performance, Cache Recovery, and Temperature":

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/sa ... d-review/2

After an initial write speed of 867 MB/s it drops to 337 MB/s

A very interesting read, thank you very much! I'll pose the same question to you; Will there/Is there an SSD drive better than the T5 for recording from the BMPCC 6K Pro in terms of speed?

no, because of the limitation of the gen1 (5gbps) USB-C port

We use USRA mini G2 and as previous posts mention we also have the same experience with Samsung SSD drives (USB-C):

Samsung T5 is stable on all formats/resolutions (05/1/2TB check compability list)
Samsung T7 drops frames on several format/resolutions
Samsung T7 Touch model only recorded stable HD braw Q0

If you are going for the Samsung SSD, stick with the T5 if they are available or check the compabillitylist:
support faq case 59025 (sorry not allowed to ad URL)

Oddly, I was able to record with the Samsung T7 on the BMPCC 6K in RAW when I first bought it. I was only doing short clips to test BRAW w/ Resolve color grading. Hadn't touched the BMPCC 6k for 8 months due to pandemic. Yesterday I went out to do some testing out in the field and I couldn't get the T7 to record ANY format or resolution. Seems stupid of Samsung to release an 'upgraded' SSD less capable than the previous, despite advertised R/W speed.

For typical consumer needs its shortcomings won't show up that much or at all.
Want a solid drive buy one of the Samsung top lines, ones designed for pro/datacenter usage. Those are very different drives.
Camera recording is a very specific usage and requires carefully chosen drive.

in their support page , they are listing only Samaung T5 250GB and 2TB , does this mean either 500GB and 1TB will not work ?

both should work. I think the 1TB T5 used to be on the recommended list for best quality some time ago. I use a 1TB since about 2 years now, and I read somewhere that the 500GB works as well.

Phil999 wrote:both should work. I think the 1TB T5 used to be on the recommended list for best quality some time ago. I use a 1TB since about 2 years now, and I read somewhere that the 500GB works as well.

The difference between T5 and T7 is that T7 uses buffer to reach its speed, T5 does not use buffer.
T7 is great for smaller sequential files like Photos but recording video fills the puffer really quick so the continuous speed drops way below continuous speed of T5.

Phil999 have you checked if the T5 is can record 6k 50p Q3?