Angelbird C-Fast cards

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Glen Pinnington

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Angelbird C-Fast cards

PostWed May 06, 2020 4:30 am

Hi everyone, i bought my Son a new BM URSA Mini Pro G2 for his freelance film work, and i want to buy him some C-Fast cards so he is not having to use his old Sandisk SD cards that he used with his previous 4k BMPCC camera.

He sometimes records in 4.6k RAW but not often, mostly he shoots in 4.6k ProRes 4444 or something like that, sometimes he shoots lower, depends on his clients and what they want.

I found a twin pack of 256gb Angelbird AV Pro CF cards for $1256 which are apparently designed as a matched pair for the URSA Mini cameras, they have a write speed of 400MB/s and read speed of 550MB/s

https://postimg.cc/xkvXkgHw

However i was curious as to why the cards have CF on them, but in the item description it says C-Fast cards, which i am a bit confused about, as my Son told me that there is a difference between CF and C-Fast cards, but i just assumed CF and C-Fast had the same interface but the C-Fast cards were a lot faster and more expensive.

So i just wanted to run this by you guys to see if these cards are the right type to buy for his G2 camera, and if not, can someone offer me advice on alternative C-Fast cards to get him.

I tried to post a link to those Angelbird CF cards but it seems we are not allowed to post links, so i posted an image of the cards instead.

Many thanks in advance.....Glen
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Glen Pinnington

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Re: Angelbird C-Fast cards

PostWed May 06, 2020 2:26 pm

It seems like i found the answer to my question right here in the forum.

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/support/faq/59015
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Ryan Earl

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Re: Angelbird C-Fast cards

PostWed May 06, 2020 3:26 pm

B&H sells the Angelbird match pack for $400.
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Robert Niessner

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Re: Angelbird C-Fast cards

PostWed May 06, 2020 4:11 pm

You can order the match pack directly from Angelbird:
https://www.angelbird.com/prod/match-pa ... tegory=210

I can't see the $ price - it shows me EURO including our 20% tax (which does not apply if you order from the states). It is EUR 467.88 incl. 20% VAT. Without VAT it will cost you EUR 389,90 which might be similar to the B&H price.

The latest revision has
Read speed up to 560 MB/s
Write speed up to 498 MB/s

When you order from Angelbird, you can have them laser engraved for free.
Robert Niessner
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robedge

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Re: Angelbird C-Fast cards

PostWed May 06, 2020 5:09 pm

Robert Niessner wrote:I can't see the $ price


It's US$400 plus shipping, which works out to be close to B&H's current price of $430.

The U.S. price of these cards dropped by 30%-35% late last summer and has dropped further since COVID-19 bit in March. Several brands are offering rebates and I think that they are testing what people are prepared to pay in the current pandemic environment.

Mr. Pinnington will have to factor in the cost of a CFast card reader. Angelbird's is US$65. There have also been discounts over the last few weeks on readers, but not on Angelbird's.
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Glen Pinnington

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Re: Angelbird C-Fast cards

PostWed May 13, 2020 4:54 am

Hey guys, thanks for the info, i live in Australia and i like to support Australian businesses, however when it comes to items like these, there may well be a big price difference between various regions.

These are the cheapest i can find the matched 256gb sets (512gb total) remember this is Aust $$$$

https://www.digidirect.com.au/photo-acc ... ini-2-pack

https://www.videoguys.com.au/Shop/p/393 ... 6cfx2.html

As for the Card Reader, i found these 2 here, the Angelbird one does not have an SD card slot unfortunately, something my Son would be wanting, the Hoodman Reader seems to have 2 slots, and the SanDisk one has 3 slots.

https://www.digidirect.com.au/photo-acc ... ard-reader

https://www.videoguys.com.au/Shop/p/404 ... eel31.html

https://www.digidirect.com.au/photo-acc ... 3-0-reader

I will take a look at the offerings suggested in your posts and get back to you.

Cheers
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Robert Niessner

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Re: Angelbird C-Fast cards

PostWed May 13, 2020 6:25 am

Glen, be careful - those multi-reader do have CF slots which means Compact Flash, and not CFast2.0!
So far I know, there do not exist any multi-readers with CFast2.0 and other tech combined.
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Glen Pinnington

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Re: Angelbird C-Fast cards

PostWed May 13, 2020 6:50 am

Thanks a lot for that info, now i understand, and i sent a link for the Angelbird single slot C-Fast reader to my son suggesting that i buy him one of those, but was curious why they don't include an SD slot as well.

I have just sent an email to Angelbird regarding the matched set of CFast cards, as well as their CFast reader as well, just seeking some info regarding the price for the items plus postage and any other associated costs like import duties and taxes.

They are selling the matched cards for $399USD, which is $615AU

https://www.angelbird.com/prod/match-pa ... mini-1834/

Their CFast reader is $64.90USD which is $95AU

https://www.angelbird.com/prod/cfast-20 ... tegory=241

They also have a dual SD card reader for $69USD as well, something i would also buy, but it seems it is not currently available.

https://www.angelbird.com/prod/sd-dual- ... tegory=241

EDIT: i am curious as to why the twin pack of 256gb Angelbird CFast cards is listed at $549USD yet they appear to be the same cards as the matched set for the URSA Mini camera, selling for just $399USD ?

https://www.angelbird.com/prod/av-pro-c ... tegory=235

Edit 2: What are these CFexpress cards used for, i have never heard of them before.

https://www.angelbird.com/category/cfex ... ype-b-238/
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rick.lang

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Re: Angelbird C-Fast cards

PostWed May 13, 2020 1:18 pm

Robert Niessner wrote:... So far I know, there do not exist any multi-readers with CFast2.0 and other tech combined.


I use the Wise Advanced Dual Reader that has two slots to support SDXC and CFast2 cards in a USB-3.1 Gen 2 device.
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Re: Angelbird C-Fast cards

PostWed May 13, 2020 1:25 pm

rick.lang wrote:
Robert Niessner wrote:... So far I know, there do not exist any multi-readers with CFast2.0 and other tech combined.


I use the Wise Advanced Dual Reader that has two slots to support SDXC and CFast2 cards in a USB-3.1 Gen 2 device.


Yes, there are a number of readers that cover more than CFast.
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Glen Pinnington

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Re: Angelbird C-Fast cards

PostWed May 13, 2020 3:47 pm

Thanks a lot, i only recently discovered the "Wise" brand while reading the card compatibility list in the Blackmajic website.

A 512gb card here in Australia will cost us $1063au
https://secure.johnbarry.com.au/wise-cf ... s-cfa-5120

OR $510USD from B&H in USA ($832au)
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... emory.html

so the Angelbird (made for URSA Mini) matched pair of 256gb cards are much better value for me at $660au including post from Austria, or $755au including the Angelbird card reader.
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Re: Angelbird C-Fast cards

PostWed May 13, 2020 5:01 pm

I own 6 of the Komputerbay 256GB 3700x they have consistently sold for $200 on Amazon in the US since I bought them in 2017.

They have been reliable for 4.6K RAW; 3:1, 4:1 ProRes etc. and have included the higher 495mbs write speed all along.

The branding isn't great, so I labeled over them with my name and a letter.

The newest Angelbird are made with the faster write speeds and have the lowered price. They may be worth a try and have been the more boutique option selling a matching set from the same production run. They may have better customer support too if you run into a problem.

At times I've had to reformat the Komputerbay cards after corruption, but I think it was mainly due to hot swapping them off of a MacBook Air with a Transcend reader. Windows 10 has been able to fix the drives to recover the data automatically.
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Glen Pinnington

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Re: Angelbird C-Fast cards

PostThu May 14, 2020 7:13 am

Thanks guys, it has been almost 20 hours since sending my email to Angelbird, but as yet no reply, a bit disappointing given there was one full business day for them to reply.

I could get them for the same price from B&H in USA but i don't want to deal with them, had a bad experience with them several months ago.

I really wish prices here in Australia were a lot more competitive, but as usual we are paying at least 30% or more in some cases for almost everything we buy here, especially vehicles.
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Robert Niessner

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Re: Angelbird C-Fast cards

PostThu May 14, 2020 10:01 am

Glen Pinnington wrote:Thanks guys, it has been almost 20 hours since sending my email to Angelbird, but as yet no reply, a bit disappointing given there was one full business day for them to reply.


Glen, Austria has been in a complete shutdown, many companies had to close and had their stuff on short hours. Angelbird is still a small company and now that Austria is ramping up to normal, they might not be back to full support capacity. And do not forget the time difference between Europe and Australia.
16 of your 20 hours have fallen into out of office time over here.

EDIT:
from their website: https://www.angelbird.com/contact/
Office Hours
Due to the current COVID-19 situation, we changed our office hours to:
Mon-Fri 09.00 a.m. - 12.00 p.m. (Central European Time)


So your email went to them yesterday around 13.00 (01 p.m.) CET. And when you wrote your post today, they have been in office for 13 minutes now today.
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Glen Pinnington

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Re: Angelbird C-Fast cards

PostFri May 15, 2020 6:40 am

Thanks Robert, yep i understand the time difference, and the fact that when i sent the email it may have been their out of office time, but i totally forgot about the Coronavirus issues affecting stuff like this, so i appreciate that, and as of now still no word from them yet, so maybe i should try and get the same price elsewhere, if forced to, i might have to bite the bullet and use begrudgingly use B&H in USA :(

Cheers
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Glen Pinnington

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Re: Angelbird C-Fast cards

PostFri May 15, 2020 7:32 am

On another NOTE.

I was just reading another Topic relating to the matched set of 256gb Angelbird CFast AV Pro cards designed for the URSA Mini cameras, and it triggered me to look into these cards more, and i found the following discrepancies.

These ones being sold direct from the Angelbird website are $399USD and appear to be the newer, faster 490MB/s write speed cards.

https://www.angelbird.com/prod/match-pa ... mini-1834/

B&H in USA are also selling those cards for $399USD, however i noticed that their cards must be the older ones, rated at just 400MB/s.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... l/overview

These twin packs (not specific to the URSA) are $479USD and it says these have a write speed of 430MB/s

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... 56_gb.html

Can someone shed some light on all this for me, it seems to be very confusing from what i can tell, and this is another reason why i don't like buying stuff like this from online retailers like B&H because i have had this same experience with them in the past, selling older stuff at cheap prices but not stating this FACT in their sale pages.
Last edited by Glen Pinnington on Fri May 15, 2020 8:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Robert Niessner

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Re: Angelbird C-Fast cards

PostFri May 15, 2020 7:57 am

Glen, you can use the shop system of the Angelbird website, add the cards and reader to your cart, then create an account and it will show you the estimated shipping costs to Australia.
For further information in import tax & duties read what I've found here:
https://www.wwcf.com.au/import-tax-impo ... australia/
Robert Niessner
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Glen Pinnington

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Re: Angelbird C-Fast cards

PostFri May 15, 2020 9:02 am

Thanks Rob, i just read that link, and i knew that we had to pay 10% GST on goods bought from overseas, but it was only applied for goods over $1000AU, now the limit has been removed, all goods are now charged the GST.

I just received a reply from Angelbird, however they only answered the 2nd part of my email that asked when the 2 slot SD card reader would be available (will be the end of June) but nothing relating to the twin CFast cards or CFast reader.

I did a Cart in the Angelbird website and it has $25US postage, and it has a box that tells me there may be other fees/taxes etc applied depending on where the goods are posted to, so maybe Angelbird might add those to my final cart payment like B&H in USA do.

EDIT: i just bit the bullet and placed the order with Angelbird, the cost was $489USD ($760AU) including postage, charged to my Paypal account, however i am waiting for an email to see if they are going to add the GST and import fees to my order and charge it to me Paypal account as well.
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rick.lang

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Re: Angelbird C-Fast cards

PostFri May 15, 2020 4:41 pm

Glen, I suspect the different rated speeds may be related to older versions of the cards or even just older versions of the firmware on the cards. You certainly want to use the latest version I should think.

The cards you ordered run faster than my Wise CFast2 cards but I’ve had them for some time now and their newer cards also may be improved. Wise is selling CFxpress cards now so that may be an item of interest in the next year or so as more cameras switch to that.
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Glen Pinnington

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Re: Angelbird C-Fast cards

PostSat May 16, 2020 2:57 am

Thanks Rick, yes i agree with you regarding the faster Angelbird cards, when i found out that B&H in USA and the stores here in Australia were selling the slower 400MB/s cards there was no way i was going to buy those, when for $399USD i can buy the newer 490MB/s cards direct from Angelbird, which i already did last night, much to my Sons shock.

Angelbird have not charged me the 10%GST nor import duties as yet, my Paypal account was charged for just the CFast cards and the reader, plus postage.

I guess i will be paying it once they arrive here, or Angelbird will charge me for it once the order is processed.

I could not find an option to insure the items either, so i hope Angelbird are using a good postal service.

Oh, and BTW guys, i asked my Son last night by email (he lives in Melbourne, i live in Hobart) if he ever records at 50 or 60fps, and to my surprise he tells me he does quite often, which i was a bit surprised at to be honest, he has always recorded at 24p or 25p as far as i knew, so i am hoping these new 490MB/s CFast cards will be ok for him, as he usually shoots in 4.6k BRAW 3:1 and ProRes 444, and those 2 modes at 50p/60p are going to fill up very fast.

BTW, Does anyone know where i can get a data sheet with the actual recording Bitrates for each of the recording modes of the URSA Mini Pro G2, i already have the Data Rates in MB/s.
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Robert Niessner

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Re: Angelbird C-Fast cards

PostSat May 16, 2020 1:40 pm

Glen Pinnington wrote:Angelbird have not charged me the 10%GST nor import duties as yet, my Paypal account was charged for just the CFast cards and the reader, plus postage.

I guess i will be paying it once they arrive here, or Angelbird will charge me for it once the order is processed.


Glen, Angelbird can't charge you for the GST, that is something you pay to your own government. Usually the delivering service will charge you (at least that's how it works here in my country).
Only huge global sellers like Amazon offer to charge you upfront and then they do all the paper and tax work in the background for you (and make you pay for that too).

Glen Pinnington wrote:Oh, and BTW guys, i asked my Son last night by email (he lives in Melbourne, i live in Hobart) if he ever records at 50 or 60fps, and to my surprise he tells me he does quite often, which i was a bit surprised at to be honest, he has always recorded at 24p or 25p as far as i knew, so i am hoping these new 490MB/s CFast cards will be ok for him, as he usually shoots in 4.6k BRAW 3:1 and ProRes 444, and those 2 modes at 50p/60p are going to fill up very fast.

BTW, Does anyone know where i can get a data sheet with the actual recording Bitrates for each of the recording modes of the URSA Mini Pro G2, i already have the Data Rates in MB/s.


Just yesterday I finished creating an LibreOffice Calc sheet with all relevant resolutions and codecs for BMD cameras, where you can input the frame rate and it calculates all Bitrates for you.

Here is the sheet as ODS for Libre/OpenOffice and XLS for Microsoft Excel:
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Re: Angelbird C-Fast cards

PostSat May 16, 2020 2:07 pm

Robert Niessner wrote:Glen, Angelbird can't charge you for the GST, that is something you pay to your own government. Usually the delivering service will charge you (at least that's how it works here in my country).
Only huge global sellers like Amazon offer to charge you upfront and then they do all the paper and tax work in the background for you (and make you pay for that too).


That may be how it works in Austria, but in fact it depends on the country and the retailer. Amazon Germany, France, etc. do not charge sales tax or duty on shipments to the U.S. Glen refers to buying from B&H in the past, whose position is as follows:

International orders are generally subject to local import duties and taxes (VAT). B&H offers the convenience of handling these fees on your behalf for specific countries and for many items. If your order qualifies for this option, it will be presented to you during the checkout process. In some cases by adding the item(s) to your cart and indicating to which country you are shipping, you can see applicable duties and taxes. If none are shown, you will still need to check with that country as to their regulations regarding duties and taxes.

If you opt to pre-pay, we will collect and pay any local import duties and taxes on your behalf. By choosing this service, you authorize B&H to charge any additional import duties, VAT or taxes to the original payment method.


B&H does offer to collect Canadian sales tax, as do many other U.S. retailers, and it would not surprise me if it offers to collect Australian GST and European countries’ VAT. This certainly makes things easier for the customer. When I lived in England and France, it was the norm for retailers elsewhere in Europe to collect national VAT, and as far as I know it still is.
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Glen Pinnington

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Re: Angelbird C-Fast cards

PostSat May 16, 2020 3:21 pm

B& H do add all GST and import duties in the checkout total, they have been doing this for a few years now, probably because of the size of their business or some other reason.

Angelbird has only replied very briefly to one of my emails, and only answered one part of my enquiry, i replied twice more asking a few additional questions, as yet still no more replies, which i feel is a bit disappointing given i have bought the cards and reader directly from them.

Anyway, i shall wait it out and see what eventuates, as yet my son has had no other information relating to the purchase, as in postage details, shipment, or otherwise.

I bought the items under my Sons business name so he can use the receipts at tax time.

@ Robert, thanks for that LibreOffice Calc sheet.

Last week i made the following Data Rate file for my Son based on the Data Rte specs from the BM website, which only had the Data Rates for 30p, so i made up a list of my own for 60p based on doubling the Data Rate of the 30p rates.

i didn't have actual figures for 25p and 50p, but those would be around 20% less than the 30p and 60p figures.

Image

What i would like to get hold of is the actual video Bitrates for each of the higher end recording modes shown in my file above.
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Glen Pinnington

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Re: Angelbird C-Fast cards

PostWed May 20, 2020 6:57 am

Angelbird have now sent me the Shipping form with UPS, and according to the tracking number the cards and reader should be arriving in Melbourne next Monday, but i won't hold my breathe, they also sent the Invoice as well.

They do not handle or process any relative Australian duties or GST payable on these items, i will assume that when they arrive customs or the relative authorities will contact me or my Son to pay them before the items are delivered.
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Glen Pinnington

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Re: Angelbird C-Fast cards

PostSat May 23, 2020 10:37 am

Hey Guys, the Angelbird CFast Cards and Reader arrived from Austria yesterday, 4 days since posting them.

Unfortunately my Son was at work when the item was delivered to his home, so they left a card to re-deliver it on Monday.

Here is the interesting part, the following is the tracking record of where these items have been on their trip half way around the world, unbelievable that they actually arrived in just 4 days.

Image

I would almost bet that if i bought them from B&W in USA they would still be in USA.

Also, i have not heard from UPS or our Customs about the 10% GST and the small Customs duties that are payable, maybe when it is delivered the UPS guy will have some paperwork for payment.
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Re: Angelbird C-Fast cards

PostTue May 26, 2020 8:20 pm

I'm just a few days too late but I would tell that you can have a free inscription when you order at Angelbird directly, see the link below for an example. Maybe you can do it the next time.

By the way, I really don't understand anything about their pricing: a BM match pack (2 x 256GB = € 467,88) is cheaper than a 'normal' 2 pack (2 x 256GB = € 599,88) ???? They have exact the same specifications. I expected a match pack should be more expensive because they are 'matched'.
I e-mailed them and this is the answer:
"To answer your question: the two products are from a different production run."

Here is our inscription:

https://www.redscope.nl/nieuws/gepersonaliseerde-cfast-kaarten/
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rick.lang

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Re: Angelbird C-Fast cards

PostTue May 26, 2020 9:35 pm

And likely the BM pack will run on a Blackmagic camera whereas normal may not. Specs can be the same but the card can perform differently.
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Robert Niessner

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Re: Angelbird C-Fast cards

PostWed May 27, 2020 11:32 am

BennoZ wrote:I'm just a few days too late but I would tell that you can have a free inscription when you order at Angelbird directly, see the link below for an example. Maybe you can do it the next time.

By the way, I really don't understand anything about their pricing: a BM match pack (2 x 256GB = € 467,88) is cheaper than a 'normal' 2 pack (2 x 256GB = € 599,88) ???? They have exact the same specifications. I expected a match pack should be more expensive because they are 'matched'.
I e-mailed them and this is the answer:
"To answer your question: the two products are from a different production run."

Here is our inscription:

https://www.redscope.nl/nieuws/gepersonaliseerde-cfast-kaarten/


Benno, I know that directly from Angelbirds head of marketing department: the match pack is a promo pack, therefor the special price. They were planing to adjust the price of the normal other packs too, but haven't still yet - for reasons to me unknown.
Robert Niessner
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Jeffrey D Mathias

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Re: Angelbird C-Fast cards

PostFri May 29, 2020 10:12 am

I just got the URSA Mini Match Pack from Angelbird. Even with the covid slowdown they are fast. Placed order last week (had a bit of trouble with their bank charging my VISA but followed my bank's advice and ordered on smart phone rather than computer), they processed on Tuesday and it arrived Thursday via UPS. That's two day delivery. The charge was as depicted on their web site order (nothing more), good price and nice packaging. One thing I did note is that the box with the cards states Sustained read of 530 MB/s and write of 430 MB/s. Their web site and product data sheet states Sustained read of 550 MB/s and write of 490 MB/s. So it would seem their data is a bit ahead of what they are shipping. My particular cards were tested by them on April 29, 2020.

Data discrepancy aside, I put a card into my pocket 4K, formated and tested. No dropped frames at any settings for a couple minutes (obviously trying the most data intensive trying to drop a frame.)

Oh, so why the pocket 4K you might wonder. Well, after much use with a T5 plugged into the USB port (you might have guessed) the USB port broke off in the camera. I called BM service and found that most likely I would need to have the board replaced costing about $500 plus roundtrip shipping. Maybe I should have bought that $500 cage, but the extra weight, oh well. So instead for $487.80 I got 2 C-fast 256 GB cards, a card reader and shipping. It's 0.5TB instead of 1TB but I can make that do. Also I can put them into my Mini Pro instead of the two SSD to make that setup more compact and lighter if desired.

Angelbird makes a great product even though their data sheets may need some attention.

Next I am looking for BM to put CFexpress in their next cameras along with higher frame rates and greater data transfer.
AMD Threadripper 1950x 16-core 3.4 GHz
64 GB Crucial DDR4 2666 ECC UDIMM RAM
AsRock Fatal1ty x399 motherboard
AMD FirePro W8100 GPU & AMD Radeon Pro WX 8200 GPU
Windows 10 Pro 64-bit version 1909, build 18363.720
DeckLink Mini Monitor 4K
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rick.lang

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Re: Angelbird C-Fast cards

PostFri May 29, 2020 1:39 pm

You can use the card reader on the computer and run the Blackmagic Dusk Speed test on the cards to get a good idea of the sustained read/write speeds.
Rick Lang
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Jeffrey D Mathias

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Re: Angelbird C-Fast cards

PostSat May 30, 2020 12:44 pm

Rick, yep. That gives Write 444.5 MB/s and Read 507.6 MB/s with 5GB stress average (using Anglebird C-fast card reader.) Not quite the internal M.2 drive which gives Write 2146.7 MB/s and Read 2713.7 MB/s but good enough for now.
AMD Threadripper 1950x 16-core 3.4 GHz
64 GB Crucial DDR4 2666 ECC UDIMM RAM
AsRock Fatal1ty x399 motherboard
AMD FirePro W8100 GPU & AMD Radeon Pro WX 8200 GPU
Windows 10 Pro 64-bit version 1909, build 18363.720
DeckLink Mini Monitor 4K
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rick.lang

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Re: Angelbird C-Fast cards

PostSat May 30, 2020 8:27 pm

Jeffrey, that should be fine in the BMPCC4K. If memo serves me correctly, that’s a better than what I get from my old Wise CFast2 cards and I’ve had no issues with those in my BMPCC4K.
Rick Lang

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