Affordable tripod??

The place for questions about shooting with Blackmagic Cameras.
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

Max Normandin

  • Posts: 204
  • Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2013 7:07 pm

Affordable tripod??

PostTue Aug 20, 2013 2:44 pm

Where can I find an affordable/heavy/reliable tripod?? I own a little manfrotto that I think will break under the weight of all this new gear...

Thanks for any suggestions.

MN
Offline
User avatar

Cinematic2013

  • Posts: 64
  • Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 6:56 pm
  • Location: Winter Park, FL

Re: Affordable tripod??

PostTue Aug 20, 2013 2:46 pm

I'm looking for the same thing right now, Libec is affordable and is has a really good reputation as far as quality and build. B&H photo has some good prices on them.
Calvin Greer
Cinematographer
Offline

Denny Smith

  • Posts: 12908
  • Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:19 pm
  • Location: USA, Northern Calif.

Re: Affordable tripod??

PostTue Aug 20, 2013 2:49 pm

How much is "affordable"? Larger Manafrotto video sticks are good, some good used video heads on eBay.
Denny Smith
SHA Productions
Offline
User avatar

Cinematic2013

  • Posts: 64
  • Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 6:56 pm
  • Location: Winter Park, FL

Re: Affordable tripod??

PostTue Aug 20, 2013 3:02 pm

Libec
TH-2000 Video Tripod

Fixed Spring Counterbalance
Sliding Balance Plate
Dual Pan Arms
Supports Up to 33 lbs (15kg)
B&H # LITH2000Mfr # TH-2000
In Stock


Whole system is 620.00
Calvin Greer
Cinematographer
Offline

Dennis Westhoff

  • Posts: 34
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:13 am

Re: Affordable tripod??

PostTue Aug 20, 2013 7:05 pm

I can recommend the new Sachtler Ace L. It costs a bit more than a Manfrotto tripod but it's definitely worth the price!

Here is a shot review I've found on vimeo:
Offline

Gabe Darvas

  • Posts: 362
  • Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2013 6:54 am

Re: Affordable tripod??

PostTue Aug 20, 2013 7:42 pm

For the BMCC would a Manfrotto 500ah head work well with a good photo tripod?
Gabe D.

Blaine Russom

Re: Affordable tripod??

PostTue Aug 20, 2013 8:11 pm

I use the Manfroto 504 Head.. it's smooth as butter :)
Offline
User avatar

Thomas Schumacher

  • Posts: 750
  • Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:14 pm
  • Location: Germany

Re: Affordable tripod??

PostTue Aug 20, 2013 8:17 pm

I took Frank Glencairns advice and bought some sturdy second hand pro tripod, cost me about € 380,- a Vinten Vision 5 LF with Manfrotto ProTouch for Vinten-legs. The same quality with a new model might be three times the price the head alone.
https://www.gernemehrfilm.de/
Offline
User avatar

Christian Schmeer

  • Posts: 904
  • Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 5:07 pm
  • Location: London, UK

Re: Affordable tripod??

PostTue Aug 20, 2013 11:05 pm

therussian2 wrote:For the BMCC would a Manfrotto 500ah head work well with a good photo tripod?

I use the Manfrotto 500AH head on a Manfrotto 055CX3 tripod. It works well, very smooth! :) I used to have the 701HDV head, which is smoother than the larger 501HDV head. According to the Manfrotto website, the 500AH head replaces the 701HDV, which is now discontinued. It's larger and seems to be even smoother than the 701HDV.
Christian Schmeer - DP / Colourist
www.christianschmeer.com
www.vimeo.com/christianschmeer
Offline
User avatar

Frank Glencairn

  • Posts: 1662
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:07 am
  • Location: Germany

Re: Affordable tripod??

PostTue Aug 20, 2013 11:48 pm

If you are on a budget, stay a way from new semi-pro or photo gear that you can afford, and get used pro gear instead. It will serve you well for years, is serviceable and will probably outlive your next 5 cameras.
http://frankglencairn.wordpress.com/

I told you so :-)
Offline

Chris Holt

  • Posts: 78
  • Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 8:32 pm

Re: Affordable tripod??

PostWed Aug 21, 2013 1:50 am

Christian Schmeer wrote:
therussian2 wrote:For the BMCC would a Manfrotto 500ah head work well with a good photo tripod?

I use the Manfrotto 500AH head on a Manfrotto 055CX3 tripod. It works well, very smooth! :) I used to have the 701HDV head, which is smoother than the larger 501HDV head. According to the Manfrotto website, the 500AH head replaces the 701HDV, which is now discontinued. It's larger and seems to be even smoother than the 701HDV.

If you have anything more than a BMCC and a lens on that Manfrotto head, you are pushing its tolerances.
Offline

Max Normandin

  • Posts: 204
  • Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2013 7:07 pm

Re: Affordable tripod??

PostWed Aug 21, 2013 1:55 am

rockroadpix wrote:
Christian Schmeer wrote:
therussian2 wrote:For the BMCC would a Manfrotto 500ah head work well with a good photo tripod?

I use the Manfrotto 500AH head on a Manfrotto 055CX3 tripod. It works well, very smooth! :) I used to have the 701HDV head, which is smoother than the larger 501HDV head. According to the Manfrotto website, the 500AH head replaces the 701HDV, which is now discontinued. It's larger and seems to be even smoother than the 701HDV.

If you have anything more than a BMCC and a lens on that Manfrotto head, you are pushing its tolerances.



Actually that head can hold up to 11lbs. No biggie.
Offline
User avatar

Christian Schmeer

  • Posts: 904
  • Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 5:07 pm
  • Location: London, UK

Re: Affordable tripod??

PostWed Aug 21, 2013 1:58 am

Max Normandin wrote:
rockroadpix wrote:If you have anything more than a BMCC and a lens on that Manfrotto head, you are pushing its tolerances.

Actually that head can hold up to 11lbs. No biggie.

Yep, it's a surprisingly good fluid head, especially for the price. I don't, however, like having too many items on my rig. I only ever use 3 setups:

1) Simple: 055CX3 Tripod + 500AH Head + Switronix PB70 + BMCC with lens (and microphone)

2) Slider: 055CX3 Tripod + 2ft Rhino Slider + 500AH Head attached to slider + Switronix PB70 + BMCC with lens (and microphone)

3) Rig: 055CX3 Tripod + 500AH Head + Kamerar Shoulder Rig + Switronix PB70 + Kamerar FF3 Follow Focus + Kamerar MAX-1 Mattebox + BMCC with lens (and microphone)

I haven't had any issues with any of these configurations so far.
Christian Schmeer - DP / Colourist
www.christianschmeer.com
www.vimeo.com/christianschmeer
Offline

Chris Holt

  • Posts: 78
  • Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 8:32 pm

Re: Affordable tripod??

PostWed Aug 21, 2013 2:04 am

Max Normandin wrote:
Actually that head can hold up to 11lbs. No biggie.

Yes, I know and 11lbs is not very much weight. You would be amazed at how much gear weight can add up.
Offline

Max Normandin

  • Posts: 204
  • Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2013 7:07 pm

Re: Affordable tripod??

PostWed Aug 21, 2013 2:30 am

rockroadpix wrote:
Max Normandin wrote:
Actually that head can hold up to 11lbs. No biggie.

Yes, I know and 11lbs is not very much weight. You would be amazed at how much gear weight can add up.


I agree with you Rock. Things add up real fast.

But I think that head can manage to support camera, cage, follow focus and battery pack. The ''bare-minimum'' rig I suppose.
Offline

Max Normandin

  • Posts: 204
  • Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2013 7:07 pm

Re: Affordable tripod??

PostWed Aug 21, 2013 2:38 am

Ok now what about this...

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=BEA2190T&N=0

170$ Supports up to 26lbs. Add a decent head to it and voilà...
Offline

Chris Holt

  • Posts: 78
  • Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 8:32 pm

Re: Affordable tripod??

PostWed Aug 21, 2013 2:51 am

Max Normandin wrote:I agree with you Rock. Things add up real fast.

But I think that head can manage to support camera, cage, follow focus and battery pack. The ''bare-minimum'' rig I suppose.

I need to re-weigh my cam with a lens, FF and the tilta rig. I'm pretty sure it was approaching 9lbs.. That doesn't include MB and any filters & extra batt. Oops, forgot my EVF and occasionally my Ikan 7" monitor. I bet it's more than 15 and I'm willing to bet Manfrotto is not erring too much on the side of caution with one of their budget heads.
A trip to the ups store (for their scale) may be in my future...
My other issue (wife claims I have more) is no 100mm ball for leveling (or 75 for that matter).

My next purchase - and I feel it's inexpensive for the qual-
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/7 ... ystem.html

I've checked them out and fondled them a couple of times at B&H.

I've gripped and AC'd a ton in my 20 years and Cartoni always held together and I feel like they aren't mass producing on the scale of Manfrotto and Sachtler. I used to love Sachtler. I've had one now for 6 years, but after just working with a Sachtler FSB8 and a Manfrotto (I think it was a) 503, I'm very non plussed in what you get at those price points with them. Your cam is your baby and you are going to walk away from it on a poorly made or overstressed head?
Last edited by Chris Holt on Wed Aug 21, 2013 2:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
Offline

Chris Holt

  • Posts: 78
  • Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 8:32 pm

Re: Affordable tripod??

PostWed Aug 21, 2013 2:54 am

Max Normandin wrote:Ok now what about this...

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=BEA2190T&N=0

170$ Supports up to 26lbs. Add a decent head to it and voilà...

That style of sticks are cool and they're great for light run and gun, if you have help. It's sort of a pain to extend the tubes by yourself and nearly impossible to do it by yourself if your cam is locked on the head.
I can't speak for Benro, but a friend of mine that did a lot of shooting on Survivor and other reality loved that style of legs.
Offline

Max Normandin

  • Posts: 204
  • Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2013 7:07 pm

Re: Affordable tripod??

PostWed Aug 21, 2013 3:12 am

rockroadpix wrote:
Max Normandin wrote:I agree with you Rock. Things add up real fast.

But I think that head can manage to support camera, cage, follow focus and battery pack. The ''bare-minimum'' rig I suppose.

I need to re-weigh my cam with a lens, FF and the tilta rig. I'm pretty sure it was approaching 9lbs.. That doesn't include MB and any filters & extra batt. Oops, forgot my EVF and occasionally my Ikan 7" monitor. I bet it's more than 15 and I'm willing to bet Manfrotto is not erring too much on the side of caution with one of their budget heads.
A trip to the ups store (for their scale) may be in my future...
My other issue (wife claims I have more) is no 100mm ball for leveling (or 75 for that matter).

My next purchase - and I feel it's inexpensive for the qual-
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/7 ... ystem.html

I've checked them out and fondled them a couple of times at B&H.

I've gripped and AC'd a ton in my 20 years and Cartoni always held together and I feel like they aren't mass producing on the scale of Manfrotto and Sachtler. I used to love Sachtler. I've had one now for 6 years, but after just working with a Sachtler FSB8 and a Manfrotto (I think it was a) 503, I'm very non plussed in what you get at those price points with them. Your cam is your baby and you are going to walk away from it on a poorly made or overstressed head?



Totally agree with you. But on a side note, with that ridiculously low price tag, my cam is NOT my baby. I'll be spending considerably more on accessories to mount on/around my BMCC than on the camera itself.

That being said, yes, if the camera falls and breaks, I'll probably run around screaming like my face is on fire.
Offline
User avatar

Nikolay Smirnov

  • Posts: 292
  • Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:34 pm
  • Location: Moscow

Re: Affordable tripod??

PostWed Aug 21, 2013 6:20 am

I going with Frank's advice.
What could you guys say about these tripods:

- SACHTLER System Video 20 ENG 2 CF
- SACHTLER System Video 14
- VINTEN System Vision 12
- E-Image tripods?
DoP/Colorist
FADE Post-production
Offline

Steve Lee Jean

  • Posts: 234
  • Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:23 pm

Re: Affordable tripod??

PostWed Aug 21, 2013 6:48 am

Are there any sites or resources where one could find used pro gear, aside from the usual suspects like ebay, amazon, BH used, etc.

Thanks!
Director/Writer
Busan, South Korea + Los Angeles, CA

matthijsliethof

Re: Affordable tripod??

PostWed Aug 21, 2013 11:12 am

I'm looking at Secced DV6 reach 3 kit,

reasonably priced and seems to have all the bells and whistles.

http://www.tripodmarket.com/secced-reac ... ystem.html

Any comments?
Offline

Chris Holt

  • Posts: 78
  • Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 8:32 pm

Re: Affordable tripod??

PostWed Aug 21, 2013 11:36 am

Nikolay Smirnov wrote:I going with Frank's advice.
What could you guys say about these tripods:

- SACHTLER System Video 20 ENG 2 CF
- SACHTLER System Video 14
- VINTEN System Vision 12
- E-Image tripods?

I know the 20 is pretty good, Don't have experience with the other two. Vinten seems to make nice gear (another that I have fondled).
E-Image - I haven't a clue.
Offline

Chris Holt

  • Posts: 78
  • Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 8:32 pm

Re: Affordable tripod??

PostWed Aug 21, 2013 11:39 am

innerspark wrote:Are there any sites or resources where one could find used pro gear, aside from the usual suspects like ebay, amazon, BH used, etc.

Thanks!

www.personal-view.com has good deals. You have to register and post a few times to get into Vitaly's good graces for the deals. It's primarily the GH hack site, but it does have a lot of good info and interesting discussion.
Offline

Max Normandin

  • Posts: 204
  • Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2013 7:07 pm

Re: Affordable tripod??

PostWed Aug 21, 2013 1:24 pm

Nikolay Smirnov wrote:I going with Frank's advice.
What could you guys say about these tripods:

- SACHTLER System Video 20 ENG 2 CF
- SACHTLER System Video 14
- VINTEN System Vision 12
- E-Image tripods?



Don't know man. Right know, don't have the money for a 10K tripod. lol.

Hence, the name of the post.
Offline

Chris Holt

  • Posts: 78
  • Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 8:32 pm

Re: Affordable tripod??

PostThu Aug 22, 2013 1:10 am

I messed with one of the Libecs at Beards & Hats today. It was about $1100 with the dolly wheels. I wouldn't opt for those, but the head seemed pretty nice.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/9 ... minum.html
One issue that I noticed was the leg lockdowns, they seemed a bit weak. Going with something that "can handle" 35 lbs may be a bit of overkill.

I really don't mean to pimp B&H so much, but it's my point of reference, especially considering that is where I was today.
Offline

RTCC

  • Posts: 3
  • Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:23 pm

Re: Affordable tripod??

PostThu Aug 22, 2013 3:01 am

I have a sachtler system but libec tripod are very good for the money.
Offline

Tom Fuldner

  • Posts: 95
  • Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:31 am
  • Location: Raleigh, NC, USA

Re: Affordable tripod??

PostThu Aug 22, 2013 1:11 pm

Frank Glencairn wrote:If you are on a budget, stay a way from new semi-pro or photo gear that you can afford, and get used pro gear instead. It will serve you well for years, is serviceable and will probably outlive your next 5 cameras.


I agree. A good tripod is worth the expense. A marginal tripod practically defeats the point of using a trpod in the first place. Trim costs elsewhere but on sticks.

Tom
Offline

Denny Smith

  • Posts: 12908
  • Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:19 pm
  • Location: USA, Northern Calif.

Re: Affordable tripod??

PostThu Aug 22, 2013 4:27 pm

I have bee using larger Manafrotto sticks, but they are heavy to haul around, tried a smaller Manafrotto, not stable enough. So, just got a Miller 20 in good kit (shape) used for $500 - it came highly recommended, and has a very smooth pan/tilt movements.
Denny Smith
SHA Productions
Offline
User avatar

Frank Glencairn

  • Posts: 1662
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:07 am
  • Location: Germany

Re: Affordable tripod??

PostThu Aug 22, 2013 4:46 pm

Just scored a used Sachtler HotPod 14 on ebay for 135 bucks - it's still $2,656 when you buy it new.

Nifty construction by the way.
You lock or release all legs at the same time, by shifting the center spreader over a line on the center column.
Center column is hydraulic and gives you some quick extra lift.
Fastest tripod I ever saw. Takes under 3 seconds to set it up or change hight..

I find it strange though, that there is no review or something about it on the web.
Usually there are a ton of videos and blog articles on everything and the kitchen sink.
http://frankglencairn.wordpress.com/

I told you so :-)
Offline
User avatar

Thomas Schumacher

  • Posts: 750
  • Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:14 pm
  • Location: Germany

Re: Affordable tripod??

PostThu Aug 22, 2013 5:56 pm

Frank Glencairn wrote:Just scored a used Sachtler HotPod 14 on ebay for 135 bucks - it's still $2,656 when you buy it new.


Where's the envy-smilie?

There must have been black magic involved.

Congrats!
https://www.gernemehrfilm.de/
Offline
User avatar

Carl Kadie

  • Posts: 13
  • Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:22 am
  • Location: Bellevue, WA

Re: Affordable tripod??

PostSat Aug 24, 2013 2:23 am

Last year we bought a "Ravelli AVTP Professional 75mm Video Camera Tripod with Fluid Drag Head". It's now a $140 at Amazon. It's rated for 27 lbs. We bought it to hold a 4-foot crane, but it worked great two weeks ago with the BMCC on a student film.

Amazon listing: http://www.amazon.com/Ravelli-AVTP-Professional-Camera-Tripod/dp/tech-data/B00139W0XM/ref=de_a_smtd
Production photos: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.176457752533563.1073741834.148202808692391&type=1

- Carl
Carl Kadie
Technical advisor/dad for http://benkadie.com
Offline

Max Normandin

  • Posts: 204
  • Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2013 7:07 pm

Re: Affordable tripod??

PostSun Aug 25, 2013 1:52 pm

Anyone out there using Kessler's K pod and Hercules 2.0?
Offline
User avatar

Nikolay Smirnov

  • Posts: 292
  • Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:34 pm
  • Location: Moscow

Re: Affordable tripod??

PostSun Apr 13, 2014 2:10 pm

tonywilliams wrote:
Max Normandin wrote:
Nikolay Smirnov wrote:I going with Frank's advice.
What could you guys say about these tripods:

- SACHTLER System Video 20 ENG 2 CF
- SACHTLER System Video 14
- VINTEN System Vision 12
- E-Image tripods?



Don't know man. Right know, don't have the money for a 10K tripod. lol.

Hence, the name of the post.


Lol! Yeah, thanks for all the tips for when I've got a few thousand bucks to spend. But I don't think any of these can qualify as affordable. I thought the whole point of BMD is to avoid huge prices, doesn't make any sense to put a pocket cam on a $10K or $2K tripod. At least I've gleaned something valuable from this. I plan to get a simple Benro A1692TB0, because:

A: It's AFFORDABLE, small and lightweight at $229 new
B: It's also a monopod/walking stick
C: I will add a Manfrotto 500ah fluid head to it. For smooth pans and tilts, and versatile manual control with monopod pans and tilts.

Frank really has good advice, unfortunately I don't have the cash to follow it right now, and have no idea how you scored that for $135.

If anybody has a better suggestion to suit my needs then I'd love to hear it. Keep in mind, I'm looking for something:

Small/Lightweight
Affordable (compared to cost of pocket cam)
With good fluid head for pan and tilt (willing to pay more for this part)

These are at the price of 1500-2000$ which is more than cheap for a Brand name and for a tripod which will live through my future camera change, for example RED or CION.
DoP/Colorist
FADE Post-production
Offline

Craig Seeman

  • Posts: 578
  • Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:19 pm

Re: Affordable tripod??

PostSun Apr 13, 2014 2:10 pm

This maybe
Manfrotto monopod with legs for stability and the 500 head as well for $279
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/9 ... _with.html
Offline

Denny Smith

  • Posts: 12908
  • Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:19 pm
  • Location: USA, Northern Calif.

Re: Affordable tripod??

PostSun Apr 13, 2014 4:45 pm

There is a used (fair to good cosmetic condition, but is good working order)
Used Miller 20 Series II Tripod. Right and left pan arm mounts. Bubble level. Etc.... Case not included, on EBay starting at $150.00, no reserve, 6 days to go. Search "Miller Tripod" to find it.
Denny Smith
SHA Productions
Offline
User avatar

Eli B. Michaud

  • Posts: 39
  • Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:37 pm

Re: Affordable tripod??

PostSun Apr 13, 2014 6:51 pm

To level flat base tripod heads is it done through adjusting the legs or is there another way. For ball heads you just level it using the handle under the bowl. It's not specified but am I missing something?
Eli B. Michaud
Director, Cinematographer, Writer, Camera Operator
Offline
User avatar

Craig Marshall

  • Posts: 946
  • Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 4:49 am
  • Location: Blue Mountains, Australia

Re: Affordable tripod??

PostSun Apr 13, 2014 10:15 pm

Throughout my broadcast television ENG career, I owned and operated large, heavy wooden legged Miller tripods. They were excellent but expensive so now with a lightweight camera, I use an aluminum fluid head tripod made in China. These are light yet stable and feature a spirit level, a sprung ball head with smooth fluid operation in both horizontal and vertical planes and they can be found on ebay all around the world for around $200.

In my opinion, they offer exceptional value for money so would suit all the small BMD cameras:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Pro-Heavy-Duty-EI-717-72-Video-Tripod-with-Fluid-Pan-Head-case-/371040134088?pt=US_Tripods&hash=item5663b723c8
4K Post Studio, Freelance Filmmaker, Media Writer
Win10/Lightworks/Resolve 15.1/X-Keys 68 Jog-Shuttle/OxygenTec ProPanel
12G SDI Decklink 4K Pro/Calibrated 10bit IPS SDI Monitor
HDvideo4K.com
Offline
User avatar

Craig Marshall

  • Posts: 946
  • Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 4:49 am
  • Location: Blue Mountains, Australia

Re: Affordable tripod??

PostSun Apr 13, 2014 11:55 pm

Yes, the dreadful sounding Fancier/Weifeng tripods are great and popular 'Downunder' but it would seem many North American customers cannot yet embrace Chinese manufactured products.

This photo shows how much weight can be successfully used with a $200 fluid tripod.
Attachments
DSC00359_1200x.jpg
DSC00359_1200x.jpg (568.38 KiB) Viewed 7434 times
4K Post Studio, Freelance Filmmaker, Media Writer
Win10/Lightworks/Resolve 15.1/X-Keys 68 Jog-Shuttle/OxygenTec ProPanel
12G SDI Decklink 4K Pro/Calibrated 10bit IPS SDI Monitor
HDvideo4K.com
Offline
User avatar

AdrianSierkowski

  • Posts: 929
  • Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:59 pm
  • Location: Los Angeles.

Re: Affordable tripod??

PostMon Apr 14, 2014 5:39 am

I may be a bit pricy; but a used O'connor 30 or 50 head in good condition will handle most any cameras. I love my O'connor 50, and I don't give a damn that it's older than most people on set but when I have my pocket all built up it handles it really well, and I can throw an Epic or my SR3 on it without worry. I think I got it used, recently serviced with legs, for $1000 or so and it hasn't given any grief in years.
Adrian Sierkowski
Director of Photography
http://www.adriansierkowski.com
adrian@adriansierkowski.com

Return to Cinematography

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Feedfetcher, ianmackie and 43 guests