7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

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christianscott

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7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostThu May 21, 2020 10:08 am

Hi everyone, I had my new monitor delivered yesterday. I only ordered it as id seen various posts claiming the colour shift issue had been fixed by a firmware update. I have just updated to 3.1 the latest firmware and as you can see I still have the warm cast. Did anyone else manage to solve this or do I have to return it?

Also worth noting that switching codecs does not fix the issue for me.

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WahWay

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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostThu May 21, 2020 11:55 am

If it does'nt have this problem with your 5" then it should not have this problem with your 7".
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christianscott

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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostThu May 21, 2020 12:13 pm

I sent the 5" back and picked up the 7". The micro BNC that the 5" uses is a nightmare to find.
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Adam Langdon

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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostThu May 21, 2020 1:08 pm

my 7" HDR VA has a magenta cast, unlike my LCD screen on my Ursa Mini Pro that shift green.
It's not terrible and the monitor looks pretty nice, but i tried to upgrade to 3.1.1 and my MacBook couldn't detect my VA. ?? never had a problem like this with all my other devices, so it's weird.

but i was wondering if 3.1.1 gave any color updates to the monitor?
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostThu May 21, 2020 1:11 pm

Adam Langdon wrote:my 7" HDR VA has a magenta cast, unlike my LCD screen on my Ursa Mini Pro that shift green.
It's not terrible and the monitor looks pretty nice, but i tried to upgrade to 3.1.1 and my MacBook couldn't detect my VA. ?? never had a problem like this with all my other devices, so it's weird.

but i was wondering if 3.1.1 gave any color updates to the monitor?


I updated to 3.1.1 this morning and there is nothing in the patch notes regarding colour. I spoke with BM on the phone this morning and they're not aware of any issues with the VA. But a little look here:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=106398



And we can see they certainly look to be having issues.

I recorded a clip in camera and in monitor and they came out the exact same. So its purley an issue with the display. I said warm cast but its sort of warm/pink.
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostThu May 21, 2020 1:30 pm

Make sure you aren't outputting a LUT via the SDI on your Ursa Mini. I turned it off and imported the same LUT on my VA HDR and BAM!! it looks SOOO much better. clearer and more accurate than my little 4" LCD.
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostThu May 21, 2020 1:32 pm

Adam Langdon wrote:Make sure you aren't outputting a LUT via the SDI on your Ursa Mini. I turned it off and imported the same LUT on my VA HDR and BAM!! it looks SOOO much better. clearer and more accurate than my little 4" LCD.


Il import the Luts to the monitor and have a look but even without any LUTS turned on the monitor has the cast.
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostThu May 21, 2020 2:09 pm

christianscott wrote:
Adam Langdon wrote:Make sure you aren't outputting a LUT via the SDI on your Ursa Mini. I turned it off and imported the same LUT on my VA HDR and BAM!! it looks SOOO much better. clearer and more accurate than my little 4" LCD.


Il import the Luts to the monitor and have a look but even without any LUTS turned on the monitor has the cast.


Mine did too, i believe because the VA has to add some coloring to it by default, i think? i just know that running an onboard LUT in the VA and disabling the output over SDI LUT in my UMP gave me a solution.
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostThu May 21, 2020 2:26 pm

Adam Langdon wrote:
christianscott wrote:
Adam Langdon wrote:Make sure you aren't outputting a LUT via the SDI on your Ursa Mini. I turned it off and imported the same LUT on my VA HDR and BAM!! it looks SOOO much better. clearer and more accurate than my little 4" LCD.


Il import the Luts to the monitor and have a look but even without any LUTS turned on the monitor has the cast.


Mine did too, i believe because the VA has to add some coloring to it by default, i think? i just know that running an onboard LUT in the VA and disabling the output over SDI LUT in my UMP gave me a solution.


Yeah it doesnt make a difference, the monitor is way off making it next to useless when dealing with colour. Im a little bit annoyed with this as I'm a massive BM supporter and this monitor is half baked. I just dont need the extra hassle of sending it back for a refund or sending it to BM support.
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostThu May 21, 2020 4:55 pm

You can judge colour and white balance using the waveform and vector scope displays on the BMVA12G7 which is taking the data supplied to it from your camera. The screen cast need not be a showstopper.
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostThu May 21, 2020 5:37 pm

Is this problem repeated with your BMPCC4K?
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostThu May 21, 2020 5:51 pm

The colour if the BMPCC4K and the BMVA12G7 do not match in that the BMVA12G7 is warmer. But the waveform and vector scope are fine on that BMVA12G7. If you’re using the screen to judge precise colour, you’re not using the best tools available. I can’t speak to the BMPCC6K but I’ve never encountered an issue with the BMPCC4K and the BMVA12G7 can be a wonderful monitor/recorder. I’d encourage anyone to use the tools it provides. I use it mostly for focus and framing but you can use it for verification of white balance and colour. What’s really important is how you are capturing the video on the taking camera.

By the way I generally don’t apply the LUTs on either the camera or the monitor. I can just to give an idea what is happening but I don’t have them On continuously. I’m usually recording BRAW Q0 and ProRes HQ on the camera and monitor respectively.

I’m such a Luddite at this I’ve yet to buy a nice colour chart as others are doing, but I judge what needs to be done in post while using the camera/monitor tools to guide my camera temperature and tint so the ProRes will be close enough for tuning in Resolve.
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostThu May 21, 2020 5:58 pm

While the screen tools and waveform are useful BMD should not be excuse for deliverying a monitor that is not accurate or even close to accurate. What the point of calling it HDR? Should it be call HMR (High Magenta Range) instead? :lol:
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostThu May 21, 2020 6:23 pm

Understand your point, but I tend to find a way to work with the tools I have and not demand something that’s not there. If the monitor doesn’t function of course that’s not satisfactory, but it will achieve almost everything I want which includes better tools to judge temperature and tint. And it may well be that a future update of the firmware does address this issue and that’s wonderfully helpful. But now we have a problem that’s not insurmountable.

Honestly your BMVA12G7 display could be monochrome and the monitor’s tools will ensure you’re recorded video (on the camera or the BMVA12G7) looks good. If you don’t agree with that possibility, that’s fine and we all understand your rationale of course, but it doesn’t detract from the capabilities that are there if you decide to use them.

With BMD and most users, it’s all about the image you can deliver and not necessarily the path you took to get there. We all appreciate a path that is straight and narrow and leads to a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, but often we find it’s a curvy road with occasional potholes, but we still can grasp the pot of gold.
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostThu May 21, 2020 7:24 pm

Wait..Rick, I’m so confused.

So are you saying it’s widely accepted the monitor is faulty and it doesn’t matter we can and should just use the tools?

If BM acknowledge the problem and say they’re working on a fix that’s one thing. BUT i see nobody talking about it and from my conversation with BM they don’t even know the problem exists.

I have never had a problem like this and it’s completely unacceptable. I’m thinking about ringing CVP tomorrow and exchanging for something else.
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostFri May 22, 2020 12:56 am

Rick is a glass half full sort of guy. I've been wanting to buy either this or the 5" for awhile, but I keep running into stories like yours. With the lockdown I haven't been traveling so I've put it off, but I'm probably just going to get a Shinobi and be done with it. At least if it's not great, it's only $300. But I'm putting off new purchases until June. If it's not working for you, you should take it back. Which reminds me, have you looked at the Portkeys?
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostFri May 22, 2020 1:27 am

christianscott wrote:Wait..Rick, I’m so confused.

So are you saying it’s widely accepted the monitor is faulty and it doesn’t matter we can and should just use the tools?

If BM acknowledge the problem and say they’re working on a fix that’s one thing...


Christian, I don’t quite agree with your summary. I think it’s something that BMD could fix with a firmware update and I’d welcome that. But in the meantime, I still find the monitor meeting my needs as long as I use the other monitor tools for any colour critical work. Or correct in post which is fairly normal for colour critical work unless we’re talking live broadcast.

I think the hardware and other features are very good. I just responded as I thought some might want to reflect on that. You’re free to make your own choices and I’m not critical of that decision.
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostFri May 22, 2020 1:28 am

Chris Leutger wrote:Rick is a glass half full sort of guy. I've been wanting to buy ...


Thanks, Chris!
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostFri May 22, 2020 2:32 am

For some reason Blackmagic never quite manage to nail the colour shift or cast in their camera screens and monitors. Its always either too green or too magenta or too warm. Sometimes I do feel some of their best monitor engineers might have already defected to its rival down the road and they never recovered since :?
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostFri May 22, 2020 2:37 am

christianscott wrote:Wait..Rick, I’m so confused.

So are you saying it’s widely accepted the monitor is faulty and it doesn’t matter we can and should just use the tools?

If BM acknowledge the problem and say they’re working on a fix that’s one thing. BUT i see nobody talking about it and from my conversation with BM they don’t even know the problem exists.

I have never had a problem like this and it’s completely unacceptable. I’m thinking about ringing CVP tomorrow and exchanging for something else.


Mine has a slight magenta cast seems less capable of capturing a green cast. Its not as bad as your example but mine looks like it was over calibrated away from green shift. I hope BMD can fix this as it seems not an isolated problem.

Have you try turning down the nit?
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostFri May 22, 2020 3:59 am

Good point, I had my BMVA12G7 at 300 nits indoors in my edit room. Turned it down to 200 nits and it did look closer to the BMPCC4K.
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Re: 7

PostFri May 22, 2020 7:01 am

rick.lang wrote:
christianscott wrote:Wait..Rick, I’m so confused.

So are you saying it’s widely accepted the monitor is faulty and it doesn’t matter we can and should just use the tools?

If BM acknowledge the problem and say they’re working on a fix that’s one thing...


Christian, I don’t quite agree with your summary. I think it’s something that BMD could fix with a firmware update and I’d welcome that. But in the meantime, I still find the monitor meeting my needs as long as I use the other monitor tools for any colour critical work. Or correct in post which is fairly normal for colour critical work unless we’re talking live broadcast.

I think the hardware and other features are very good. I just responded as I thought some might want to reflect on that. You’re free to make your own choices and I’m not critical of that decision.


I appreciate what you’re saying. But I have yet to see any evidence that they’re aware of the problem and are even working on a fix for this issue. And it is an issue. I should be able to look at the monitor and see exactly what I’m getting. When I look at the G2 screen and have a blue sky and the VA which has an orange sky that in my opinion is a little unacceptable.

Anyway..BM are my favourite company in the world. I think a simple post acknowledging the issue and letting us know they’re working on a firmware fix would go a long way. I think the fact of the matter is not enough people have actually bought this monitor yet and so there simply isn’t enough reports. But I just need to know if its something that will be fixed or I can return the monitor before I can no longer send it back.
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostFri May 22, 2020 10:52 am

I have an Atomos Shogun flame 7" and its light and day more accurate not just in colour WB but shadow and highlight was also way more consistant. Who beta test these monitors for BMD? Somebody posted a review preferring the quality of the BMVA12G7 screen to the Shinobi which swayed me to get this. I mean they must be wearing one heck of a triple glazed rose tinted lens (no pun intended) or they are brainwashed to speak well of the company. :(
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Re: 7

PostFri May 22, 2020 11:08 am

christianscott wrote:Anyway..BM are my favourite company in the world. I think a simple post acknowledging the issue and letting us know they’re working on a firmware fix would go a long way. I think the fact of the matter is not enough people have actually bought this monitor yet and so there simply isn’t enough reports. But I just need to know if its something that will be fixed or I can return the monitor before I can no longer send it back.


I would send it back while you still have the chance. Loyalty are not always rewarded. Accepting the purchase is just like saying you accept there is no problem with their product.

Mine is going back in the box. Unfortunately the return window has expired with the lockdown becomming a distraction. Its probably the last monitor I will buy from BMD :cry:
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostFri May 22, 2020 3:01 pm

Have you contacted BMD Support? If not, do so immediately and ask for an RMA even if the item’s warranty has expired. I didn’t realize they had been released long enough to have expired already. Just check out your options.

If you leave it in the box, there’s a chance a firmware upgrade will address the screen inaccuracies or inconsistencies. My BMVA12G7 screen doesn’t come close to making a blue sky look orange, just a slight warming of the colour displayed that is not going to affect recorded footage if your camera is recording and sending good (white balances) data to the BMVA12G7.
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostFri May 22, 2020 3:20 pm

Return window to the dealer has expired, not the warranty. I believe what I'm seeing is not isolated but a general problem of colour accuracy. The blue sky is still blue on mine and it does not look as bad as Chris's example. If you always use a BMD camera and have not use a decent external monitor you would think the BMVA12G7 is best thing since slice bread. I still think the colour are an improvement over the original VA which is dreadful and green shift, but hey its 2020 and even monitor/recorder from 2013 are more accurate. I cant possibly say the BMVA12G7 is fit for purpose after swapping it for my 3yrs old Shogun Flame.
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostFri May 22, 2020 4:22 pm

Blackmagic have requested me to send it in to them BUT having spoke with CVP they want me to return it to them for inspection and will replace if they find it to be faulty.

I think if they find it to be fault Im probably going to go with a different monitor, I love BM but this has put me off them a little bit. How monitors are shipping with these issues is beyond me. It looks like its pretty common and puts a downer on getting a nice new monitor delivered.

Im thinking about going back to smallHD I used to have a focus and it was amazing. I used to have the older VA 7" and that wasnt too bad either.
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostFri May 22, 2020 6:13 pm

I have SmallHD Focus OLED and love it. It's gorgeous, and still on sale for $300... but it isn't a recorder. I've been debating a Video Assist, so I hope that BMD gets the color issues sorted. If it does, then the VA line will be winners, even for those who don't use them for recording. A good 7" monitor for the camera assistant who's pulling focus would be very nice.
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostFri May 22, 2020 6:49 pm

WahWay wrote:Return window to the dealer has expired, not the warranty... If you always use a BMD camera and have not use a decent external monitor you would think the BMVA12G7 is best thing since slice bread... its 2020 and even monitor/recorder from 2013 are more accurate...


Ah, good it’s still under warranty.

That’s part of my ‘problem’ since I only shoot with BMD cameras (except the Canon HV20) in the last 15 years and the BMVA12G7 is my first external monitor/recorder.

A 2013 monitor might have a more accurate display but does it do at least 2200-2500nits?

I really went for the BMVA12G7 due to the frustration of working outdoors without truly bright monitors. All the rest is gravy for me. Now there are even brighter monitors but I’m happy with what I have. Glad you have worked out a solution, but hope in the end that the issues will be addressed via firmware.
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostFri May 22, 2020 7:19 pm

I still have my Ninja Blade from 2013. I use a hood for outdoor, no problem.
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostFri May 22, 2020 7:32 pm

I've seen the SmallHD's and while they're nice monitors, they're not bright enough for outdoor work in bright sun. I compared the Shinobi and the BM VA at dealer a few months ago and the BM was better in the sense that it was brighter, but the Shinobi had better color. This was because the VA didn't have the January (February?) update so it had a bad cast. Sounds like the update didn't fix that from reports I've read. I'm far less interested in recording than I am in getting a daylight monitor. Probably 75% of my work is shot in the Southwest so nits matters. I really want the VA to be the one, except for the color, it presents a really nice image. But for a grand, I expect it to work properly.
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostFri May 22, 2020 8:06 pm

Chris Leutger wrote:I've seen the SmallHD's and while they're nice monitors, they're not bright enough for outdoor work in bright sun. I compared the Shinobi and the BM VA at dealer a few months ago and the BM was better in the sense that it was brighter, but the Shinobi had better color. This was because the VA didn't have the January (February?) update so it had a bad cast. Sounds like the update didn't fix that from reports I've read. I'm far less interested in recording than I am in getting a daylight monitor. Probably 75% of my work is shot in the Southwest so nits matters. I really want the VA to be the one, except for the color, it presents a really nice image. But for a grand, I expect it to work properly.


I have asked CVP that if they send me a replacement I want them to open it up and check it before sending it. If they all have the cast then I will have no choice but to get another monitor. Who knows when a fix will happen and I can always stick a coat over my head but the colours being completely different is a deal breaker for me.

I honestly think if the colour was correct it would be an incredible monitor. Nice and big, sharp. Great tools and options. It’s heavy but at this point my g2 is rigged out to the point of where I can barely lift the thing anyway lol.
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostSat May 23, 2020 8:13 am

Someone recently got this problem with two VA 12Gs. It could be his claim of "reddish" might be actually magenta we are seeing?

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=113626
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostSat May 23, 2020 1:14 pm

WahWay wrote:Someone recently got this problem with two VA 12Gs. It could be his claim of "reddish" might be actually magenta we are seeing?

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=113626


Sounds similar to my issue yes.
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostSat May 23, 2020 5:37 pm

No monitor is going to be completely color accurate, unless it can be color calibrated, which the VAs can not. These monitors are for shooting, getting exposure set, framing the shot and in the case of the VA record also. As long as the recording is accurate, then your job is done. If you want to judge colors on set, you need a color reference monitor, not the VA, or SmallHD, etc. Just like different sensors have different color shifts, so do monitor LCDs, no two manufacturers monitors are going to match, including the one on the camera.
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostSat May 23, 2020 7:33 pm

Denny Smith wrote:No monitor is going to be completely color accurate, unless it can be color calibrated, which the VAs can not. These monitors are for shooting, getting exposure set, framing the shot and in the case of the VA record also. As long as the recording is accurate, then your job is done. If you want to judge colors on set, you need a color reference monitor, not the VA, or SmallHD, etc. Just like different sensors have different color shifts, so do monitor LCDs, no two manufacturers monitors are going to match, including the one on the camera.
Cheers


Thanks for your reply but I have had plenty of monitors that matched what I was actually filming. I have had much cheaper monitors that matched more accurately than this. I believe this to be a fault as I have seen VA 12g that had a colour cast but much less. Mine is obviously more on the extreme end but nether the less it’s not good.
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostSat May 23, 2020 9:56 pm

Denny Smith wrote:No monitor is going to be completely color accurate, unless it can be color calibrated, which the VAs can not.


I don't think anyone here is talking accurate. We're talking about an obvious and problematic color cast. I did not see any cast with other screens I looked at. I wasn't looking at any of them from a color accuracy point of view, but the difference was that it was distracting to be looking at the BM monitor with it's obvious cast, the one I saw was very yellow. The quality and brightness of others vary but nothing made me go wtf like the BM. It looks like a great screen and could be a great tool if it only did what everyone else seems able to do by providing a reasonably plausible image. Obviously, something is wrong since they gave us one update already. Looks like it needs another.
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Denny Smith

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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostSun May 24, 2020 5:53 am

Ok, I agree having an obvious basis colormcast is not good. I had one of the original VAs with a very green basis color cast, and did a RMA on it, got it back with less green, and it was more useable. If your VA has too much of a color cast, return it to BMD with a RMA and maybe this can get fixed.
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Denny Smith
SHA Productions
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rick.lang

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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostSun May 24, 2020 11:47 am

My BMVA12G7 is warmer than my BMPCC4K but not extremely or massively so. I often grade deliverables with a warmer look so maybe the slight colour cast works for me as the equivalent of an added LUT. Boy, talk about the glass being half full rather than half empty!
Rick Lang
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Denny Smith

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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostSun May 24, 2020 2:14 pm

Most of these color shifts in the monitor can be corrected with a LUT to match what you want to see.
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Denny Smith
SHA Productions
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christianscott

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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostSun May 24, 2020 3:55 pm

Denny Smith wrote:Most of these color shifts in the monitor can be corrected with a LUT to match what you want to see.
Cheers


I think you’re missing the point though. It’s not the colours you’re filming it’s a cast across the whole monitor. You can even see the tint in the on screen writing. The codec for instance instead of being white is white with a hint of orange. It’s not just the image it’s the whole screen has the issue. It’s something which we don’t really have to accept when plenty of other manufacturers are not having an issue with this.
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WahWay

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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostSun May 24, 2020 5:48 pm

Denny Smith wrote:Most of these color shifts in the monitor can be corrected with a LUT to match what you want to see.
Cheers


Sorry, you are plain wrong!
This is not a deviation of colour balance like that you see on BMD cameras were the sensor can be more magenta or more warm from camera to camera and all the user need to do is change it in camera to match. If all is needed is to change the LUT to correct the colour shift problems no one will be complaining.
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Denny Smith

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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostSun May 24, 2020 6:01 pm

OK, then if what is supposed to be white is greenish or pinkish, then you are right, yo do not need to “live with this”, do a RMA and get it fixed, this is what I did with my VA’s greenish tint issue.
Perhaps BMD needs to find a better more neutral LCD screen for the VAs?
Cheers
Denny Smith
SHA Productions

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