7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

The place for questions about shooting with Blackmagic Cameras.
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

jallen0

  • Posts: 411
  • Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2020 7:04 pm
  • Real Name: Justin Allen

Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostFri Jul 10, 2020 12:03 pm

As someone who is about to buy 2 of these monitors this is a scary thread.
2019 MacPro Ver 11.1, 160GB Mem, 4TB Drive, 4TB Internal Sonnet Raid, Dual Radeon Pro W5700X 16GB
LG UF 5k, 27" Thunderbolt Display, 55" LG C8 OLED
Resolve Editor Keyboard, Mini Panel, Ultrastudio 4K Mini
Resolve Studio Ver. 17.0
Offline
User avatar

rick.lang

  • Posts: 14326
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:41 pm
  • Location: Victoria BC Canada

Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostFri Jul 10, 2020 1:36 pm

There does appear to be some inconsistency in the monitor far from matching and the tools are there in terms of waveforms to judge a scene objectively. There’s more to the monitor/recorder than an alleged colour cast that renders the monitor useless for some.

Good luck with your decision. I’m a very happy user as my primary goal is met and that’s because of the 2500 nit display I feel is needed outdoors. Be very careful about claims that other monitors with significantly less power are bright enough. If you will often use it in places without mains power, for extended recordings, you need a couple of the fat Sony NP-F970 batteries. And turn if off or slide the power to 100 nits when you’re not actually using it while prepping a shot or recording.
Rick Lang
Offline

projekt2501

  • Posts: 6
  • Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:17 pm
  • Real Name: Christopher Haug

Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostWed Jul 22, 2020 2:52 pm

Hey

in one of the first versions when it appeared to be not calibrated at all it switched between playpack and live mode the color. after playback it had a cast but before it ha no blacks. with newer firmware it stays with a constant color cast far from being accurate. It's not like complaining about a TVlogic 075 or so that is not really accurate either. It's more like a complete fail. BMD is not able to make usable monitors at all. So regard it as a recorder or whatever. And no, you cannot calibrate it. there is already some wired lut working inside that makes that cast, probably to get rid of the green tint all bmd monitors have. so if you write a calibration lut it won't work that well and you will never get red in a decent range. I tried at least 20 times to calibrate 2 different HDRs and its just not good. no idea how someone can compare a fsi monitor with this one. so if you claim it can be calibrated with calibrated meaning it stays within the specs of let's say 709 without being in some primary colors extremely off, show it.
Offline

jallen0

  • Posts: 411
  • Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2020 7:04 pm
  • Real Name: Justin Allen

Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostWed Jul 22, 2020 3:25 pm

Quick question. Did you use a colorimetric device to calibrate it, use your eye, or just add LUT's to it?
2019 MacPro Ver 11.1, 160GB Mem, 4TB Drive, 4TB Internal Sonnet Raid, Dual Radeon Pro W5700X 16GB
LG UF 5k, 27" Thunderbolt Display, 55" LG C8 OLED
Resolve Editor Keyboard, Mini Panel, Ultrastudio 4K Mini
Resolve Studio Ver. 17.0
Offline
User avatar

Deyan Parouchev

  • Posts: 80
  • Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2015 1:14 am
  • Location: Paris, France

Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostTue Dec 08, 2020 6:41 pm

I just received mine and I can confirm. This monitor has a very visible color cast (magenta / pink). I compared to the screen of the Ursa mini, and also a small HD, my computer monitor trough USB. All the monitors shows almost the exact same color except the video assist. Very disappointed, because I cannot manage nothing else except contrast and saturation in the monitor. The only way is maybe to create a lut to try to correct the cast... But why pay 1k € for a pretentious monitor...
I run with the last formate 3.3.1 on sdi connectors.
Did someone have a solution? A hope for future update correction...?
Thanks in advance guys!
Offline
User avatar

Deyan Parouchev

  • Posts: 80
  • Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2015 1:14 am
  • Location: Paris, France

Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostWed Dec 09, 2020 1:23 am

I partially reply to myself, maybe it can be useful to other frustrated buyers. I tried to connect the video assist to my computer (quadro graphic card) and after that to my 4k blu-ray player OPPO 205 (trough the second hdmi output) with Hdmi connectors and curiously the colors are much more accurate. I compared to my calibrated screen and oled TV.
So is the color cast occurs more on the sdi, or when connected to a camera..?
Did someone achieve to get a true hdr signal into this device? An icon is supposed to be shown on this case.
I will be happy to read your ideas!!!.
Offline

Howard Roll

  • Posts: 1149
  • Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 7:50 am

Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostWed Dec 09, 2020 5:38 pm

This is basically why HDMI is the last choice for color critical monitoring. Part of the HDMI handshake is reading an ICC profile from the display. Can't speak to the DVD, the Quadro is going to read the ICC profile and output accordingly. On OSX there are profiles for both Ninja V and ITU-709, the Ninja V output is twisted to account for the panel's deficiencies, 709 is straight thru.

If the machine captures the ICC profile, comparisons can be made between 709 and the VA profiles. Most likely there is some correction.

Good Luck

ICC.png
ICC.png (441.8 KiB) Viewed 1311 times
Offline

zero.focus

  • Posts: 1
  • Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:36 pm
  • Location: Berlin, Germany
  • Real Name: René Hupp

Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostWed Dec 09, 2020 10:43 pm

I got my monitor (BMVA12G7) yesterday and also have the problem that it shows the colors much warmer.
Offline
User avatar

Deyan Parouchev

  • Posts: 80
  • Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2015 1:14 am
  • Location: Paris, France

Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostThu Dec 10, 2020 1:28 am

I tried to manage with contrast at 35 and saturation at 45 and applying a more on the green (neutral) side lut and it's better.
Maybe someone possessing this monitor and some advanced tools can create a custom lut to finally calibrate properly this thing?

I have another issue, I tried recording on different resolutions and flavors of ProRes, and when I play back I can only see the few last ones (the last selected resolution and fps project on camera). It's impossible to access the other previous takes. Everything is safely on the cards, but just cannot playback on the screen. Anyone with the same issue? Maybe we should create a new topic for firmware requests?

Unfortunately I own the original Ursa Mini 4,6k, so impossible for me to record b-raw... What a shame... Come on Blackmagic is it really impossible to enable the b-raw on these units? I am still stucked on firmware 4.8 with color science 3...!
Offline

Akstezi

  • Posts: 5
  • Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:53 am
  • Real Name: Matt Tress

Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostThu Dec 10, 2020 11:59 am

New firmware update 3.1.2

Did this fix anything?
Offline

junkemailarj

  • Posts: 1
  • Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:58 am
  • Real Name: Mr Adrian E Green

Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostThu Dec 10, 2020 12:09 pm

Well I have just received the BMVA3g7 and It's so Green I can't even look at it. It's a joke, I'm sending it back. Firmware version 3.3.1
BM Video assist Green Cast 2.jpg
BM Video assist Green Cast 2.jpg (495.76 KiB) Viewed 1169 times
Last edited by junkemailarj on Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Offline
User avatar

rick.lang

  • Posts: 14326
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:41 pm
  • Location: Victoria BC Canada

Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostThu Dec 10, 2020 6:21 pm

Deyan, I also connected my BMVA12G7 to my Mac Pro (HDMI feed from the Pro Vega II card) and it looked quite good which would echo the thought that the 7” monitor isn’t the issue with the colour cast. Mine is slightly magenta as I recall but not so much that it seems unusable.
Rick Lang
Offline
User avatar

Deyan Parouchev

  • Posts: 80
  • Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2015 1:14 am
  • Location: Paris, France

Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostThu Dec 10, 2020 8:47 pm

Hi Rick, happy to talk to you again...
You are wright, regarding the result from a computer / Blu-ray 4K player or other devices trough the HDMI the color seems to be accurate enough. The problem seems to come from cameras sources (on SDI for my part). Of course the monitor is usable, and even awesome indeed. This is just a shame that it's not possible to calibrate as Atomos or other brands. Every unit is a little bit deifferent, it's an easy way to have a trusty monitor on the field or in studio/post production.
Maybe in the next firmware... Please Blackmagic team !!?
Offline
User avatar

rick.lang

  • Posts: 14326
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:41 pm
  • Location: Victoria BC Canada

Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostThu Dec 10, 2020 8:57 pm

Yes, BMD keeps the updates coming. I was surprised by the streaming capability they added with the latest update. Good job.
Rick Lang
Offline

WahWay

  • Posts: 287
  • Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2020 11:54 am
  • Real Name: Simon Chan

Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostMon Dec 21, 2020 9:11 am

When I was testing the VA 7" 12G comparing it to my grading monitor and have the VA looped with the Atomos Shogun Flame when connected to the BMPCC4K, the VA has a pink cast, the Shogun has a slight yellow cast. As to which is more accurate I would say the Shogun is more tolerable because it allows me to change the gain on the screen to closer match my grading monitor. I notice when the BMPCC4K switched off the VA 7" 12G screen display defaulted to a pinkish white screen while still looped through the Atomos Shogun HDMI. This pinkish cast backlight I believe should have been how the VA should display white and mirrors exactly how the pinkish cast come to influence the monitor. Unlike the problem reported by the poster were the text are also pink the text on my VA is properly displayed white. I believe the cast is down to the VA not optimise the white signal correctly but I'm not sure why BMD has not corrected it. I've heard different screens were released for the VA 12G so maybe if it is fixed for one version of the screen the problem gets exasperated for another version of the screen? I like to see an option were you can manually calibrate the RGB like you do with your computer monitor screen.
Offline
User avatar

Christopher Dobey

  • Posts: 221
  • Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:58 pm
  • Location: San Francisco Bay Area, California

Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostThu Dec 24, 2020 9:12 pm

Hey Christian! to confirm - is the white balance of all the icons/text on your VA incorrect or only the camera signal?

My VA 12G 5" arrived and I've noticed that the white balance of the interface (i.e. the screen itself) is accurate but how it deals with displaying colors coming in from some HDMI signals are off (RAW from a Nikon Z6 in my case). The good news for me at least is that all this can be fixed in an update since the screen is fine + the resulting VA files are still recorded in correct color when compared to a video file recorded in camera.

Is this the same case for you or is the interface color shifted as well?
Nikon Z6 -> Video Assist 12G 5" / Ninja V
Resolve Studio 17.1 PB 6 | macOS 11.1
Apple M1 MacBook Air, 8 core, 16GB memory | Pro Display XDR 6K
Decklink Mini Monitor 4K | LG OLED B7A 65" | Micro Panel
Offline

jonstatt

  • Posts: 19
  • Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:40 pm
  • Real Name: Jonathan Statt

Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostSat Dec 26, 2020 5:01 pm

Having seen a 5 and 7" next to each other, at least in these two examples, the 5 is much closer to correct with the 7 having an obvious magenta cast. The 5 is slightly warm but nowhere near as off. Not sure why the recommendations in every other thread is for the 7" model. The 5 does everything the 7 does except the analogue mic inputs and second SD slot.

For the Nikon, I assume you loaded a LUT into the Assist first?
Offline

Satureyes

  • Posts: 73
  • Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:55 pm
  • Location: London
  • Real Name: Rick Bronks

Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostSun Dec 27, 2020 9:09 am

Been looking online and not a single UK dealer has any stock of the 7” 12G HDR VA.

I know BM are generally a bit slow with getting stock in quantity to dealers but is there a chance this is so they can ‘fix’ the issues discussed here?

Or is it the usual case of demand outstripping supply and throw in a global pandemic etc etc
Offline

WahWay

  • Posts: 287
  • Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2020 11:54 am
  • Real Name: Simon Chan

Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostSun Dec 27, 2020 9:17 am

Could be because there is not much demand, people prefer Atomos so fewer were made because of the problem discussed here.
Offline

Satureyes

  • Posts: 73
  • Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:55 pm
  • Location: London
  • Real Name: Rick Bronks

Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostSun Dec 27, 2020 8:58 pm

WahWay wrote:Could be because there is not much demand, people prefer Atomos so fewer were made because of the problem discussed here.
Is this genuinely a massive issue or a forum thing - the rule that you only hear when things are crappy.
Offline

WahWay

  • Posts: 287
  • Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2020 11:54 am
  • Real Name: Simon Chan

Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostMon Dec 28, 2020 6:37 am

A genuinely massive issue not addressed.
Offline
User avatar

rick.lang

  • Posts: 14326
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:41 pm
  • Location: Victoria BC Canada

Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostTue Dec 29, 2020 6:34 am

Satureyes wrote:Is this genuinely a massive issue or a forum thing..


Read through entire threads on this topic and come to your own conclusions. Sometimes it seems “the sky is falling.” If you need to judge critical colour on the Video Assist, there are excellent waveforms on the BMVA12G7 that will tell me if colour is good and are more reliable than using my eye.
Rick Lang
Offline

WahWay

  • Posts: 287
  • Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2020 11:54 am
  • Real Name: Simon Chan

Re: 7

PostTue Dec 29, 2020 7:39 am

rick.lang wrote:
Satureyes wrote:Is this genuinely a massive issue or a forum thing..


Read through entire threads on this topic and come to your own conclusions. Sometimes it seems “the sky is falling.” If you need to judge critical colour on the Video Assist, there are excellent waveforms on the BMVA12G7 that will tell me if colour is good and are more reliable than using my eye.


Seriousely are you expecting people to buy a VA just for its waveform? :o

We will then not bother with its headlined HDR, 2500 nits, capacity to display LUTs so we can just look at waveform.

No Rick, I judge colour to be reliable and as close as possible with an external monitor as it is to a properly graded monitor with neutral cast. This thread is about colour shifts issue with the VA 12g HDR. Its not about preference working with waveform vs image.
Offline

WahWay

  • Posts: 287
  • Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2020 11:54 am
  • Real Name: Simon Chan

Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostTue Dec 29, 2020 8:09 am

Christopher Dobey wrote:Hey Christian! to confirm - is the white balance of all the icons/text on your VA incorrect or only the camera signal?

My VA 12G 5" arrived and I've noticed that the white balance of the interface (i.e. the screen itself) is accurate but how it deals with displaying colors coming in from some HDMI signals are off (RAW from a Nikon Z6 in my case). The good news for me at least is that all this can be fixed in an update since the screen is fine + the resulting VA files are still recorded in correct color when compared to a video file recorded in camera.

Is this the same case for you or is the interface color shifted as well?


Christian is done with the VA 12G HDR. Just a few weeks after he posted he had seen enough and exchanged it for a SmallHD.
Offline

Satureyes

  • Posts: 73
  • Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:55 pm
  • Location: London
  • Real Name: Rick Bronks

Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostTue Dec 29, 2020 10:32 am

WahWay wrote:
Christopher Dobey wrote:Hey Christian! to confirm - is the white balance of all the icons/text on your VA incorrect or only the camera signal?

My VA 12G 5" arrived and I've noticed that the white balance of the interface (i.e. the screen itself) is accurate but how it deals with displaying colors coming in from some HDMI signals are off (RAW from a Nikon Z6 in my case). The good news for me at least is that all this can be fixed in an update since the screen is fine + the resulting VA files are still recorded in correct color when compared to a video file recorded in camera.

Is this the same case for you or is the interface color shifted as well?


Christian is done with the VA 12G HDR. Just a few weeks after he posted he had seen enough and exchanged it for a SmallHD.
I saw. However I’m looking at the 7” 12G.

Also it’s one person unhappy and returning it?
Offline

Onnenkissa

  • Posts: 1
  • Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2020 1:33 pm
  • Real Name: Erkka Luutonen

Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostWed Dec 30, 2020 12:59 pm

Same problem here with the Video Assist 5" 12G and Nikon Z6. I switched from the Atomos Ninja V to be able to use the (B)RAW and as the Resolve is my NLE of choice, the trade was pretty obvious. Now everything has this magenta cast on the VA screen. Especially using Nikon's N-log LUT turns the whole screen red. Oh my.
Offline
User avatar

carlomacchiavello

  • Posts: 1360
  • Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2012 6:04 pm
  • Location: italy

Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostFri Jan 01, 2021 7:16 pm

mmm a very strange thing the fact that BMD develop monitor / recorder without a color calibration.
I develop in past a lut to apply to origina l video assist / videoassist 4k to neutralize original green cast.

If someone in bmd are so kind to gift me a video assist HDR i will be happy to develop a lut to correct this kind of drifiting :-P
Offline
User avatar

Christopher Dobey

  • Posts: 221
  • Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:58 pm
  • Location: San Francisco Bay Area, California

Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostMon Jan 04, 2021 3:38 am

I figured out the issue for my 5" Video Assist at least (though no solution)

The Z6 outputs RAW to the VA as N-Log Gamma and Rec.2020 Gamut (as displayed on the top of the VA screen during use). The problem is that the screen is actually conforming to Rec.709 giving hyper saturated and shifted colors during clean feed [no LUT applied]. This is checked by loading the RAW file into Resolve - decoding Camera RAW to Rec.2020 [in Rec.709 Timeline] will look on point and decoding to Rec.709 will again look exactly hyper saturated as the VA.

Though to reiterate the user interface white balance is perfectly fine. Since the OP's entire interface looked shifted to magenta from his photo, a LUT could compensate for the input signal but the pinkish icons/text would throw your eyes off quite a bit.
Nikon Z6 -> Video Assist 12G 5" / Ninja V
Resolve Studio 17.1 PB 6 | macOS 11.1
Apple M1 MacBook Air, 8 core, 16GB memory | Pro Display XDR 6K
Decklink Mini Monitor 4K | LG OLED B7A 65" | Micro Panel
Offline

jimjones

  • Posts: 38
  • Joined: Fri Nov 01, 2019 1:49 pm
  • Real Name: Jim Jones

Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostSat Jan 09, 2021 2:37 pm

Received my 12G 7" - magenta shift. I just foolishly assumed there would be a mechanism to correct it out. Very disappointing to see it can't be corrected by the user (without adding a lut). Even if you could chain luts together internally to have a corrective lut first that would be useful (that's essentially what an internal calibration is anyway right?). I am a big fan of BM products but this was a huge disappointment.

Contacted support - they were very attentive but didn't have much to offer besides firmware and an RMA. So, back to the shop it goes to be replaced by something else.
DR Studio 16.2.2.012, Win10Pro, Ryzen 7 1700x, 32GB, GTX 1070 8GB Studio 442.92, NVMe Cache, Intensity Shuttle, Decklink, Decklink 4K
Offline

rene.jonas

  • Posts: 1
  • Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:53 pm
  • Real Name: Rene Jonas

Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostTue Feb 09, 2021 5:24 pm

I am a new starter with BM VA 5" HDR and NIKON Z6 (with RAW VIDEO activated by NIKON).
When recording BMRAW from NIKON Z6 to VA (all firmwares at the latest stage, all settings on both devices according to documentation) and applying the official NIKON Z6 LUT on the VA I also notified a OVER SATURATION and a MAGENTA SHIFT.
Loading the material to Resolve I also needed to apply a customized LUT that compensated for over saturation and magenta shift.
However, not being able to compensate the over saturation and the magenta shift in the 5" HDR is not an option for me. If you have the same issue what was the reply of BM support on this? I am not willing to accept this. Thanks for your support.

René Jonas
Offline
User avatar

Christopher Dobey

  • Posts: 221
  • Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:58 pm
  • Location: San Francisco Bay Area, California

Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostTue Feb 09, 2021 6:42 pm

Hello Rene, even though the resulting Nikon Z6 BRAW footage looked incredible when imported into Resolve, I ended up returning my 5" unit because I wasn't willing to wait for BMD to release an update to the oversaturated look while previewing on the viewing assist.

The great thing about BRAW is that it can be previewed like any other video file in the macOS Finder with LUT applied, so if you create a LUT to compensate for the color inaccuracy it will look good on the video assist but then desaturated and off in macOS before importing to Resolve. This doesn't affect everyones work flow but for me with clients in the room it wasn't efficient.

I'll clarify that my VA unit was color accurate and did not have a 'shift' in the sense that the white balance of the user interface was correct. It's that the firmware did not allow for viewing the RAW signal has clean feed Log (desaturated / no contrast), meaning the RAW signal was being converted directly from Linear --> Display choice instead of Linear --> N-Log --> Display (none, Rec. 709, Rec. 2020 etc). So the native signal conversion was therefor way off from the get go and then applying a LUT looked as if two LUTs were being applied (hyper saturation).
Nikon Z6 -> Video Assist 12G 5" / Ninja V
Resolve Studio 17.1 PB 6 | macOS 11.1
Apple M1 MacBook Air, 8 core, 16GB memory | Pro Display XDR 6K
Decklink Mini Monitor 4K | LG OLED B7A 65" | Micro Panel
Offline
User avatar

youngeditor

  • Posts: 18
  • Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:52 pm
  • Real Name: Daniel Hillel-Tuch

Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostTue Feb 23, 2021 1:00 pm

Our recently purchased 5" 3G Video Assist also clearly is far too green/warm.

I sent Blackmagic Support an Email about it and hope they have a good solution.
Attachments
Video Assist-min.jpg
Video Assist-min.jpg (42.08 KiB) Viewed 185 times
Offline
User avatar

youngeditor

  • Posts: 18
  • Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:52 pm
  • Real Name: Daniel Hillel-Tuch

Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostThu Feb 25, 2021 12:59 pm

I decided to give them a ring since I wasn't getting any response via email and the customer support person told me they know of the problem and they expect to release a firmware update to resolve yellow/green issue.
Previous

Return to Cinematography

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Csaba Nagy, Dmitry Shijan and 28 guests