7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

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jallen0

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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostFri Jul 10, 2020 12:03 pm

As someone who is about to buy 2 of these monitors this is a scary thread.
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rick.lang

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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostFri Jul 10, 2020 1:36 pm

There does appear to be some inconsistency in the monitor far from matching and the tools are there in terms of waveforms to judge a scene objectively. There’s more to the monitor/recorder than an alleged colour cast that renders the monitor useless for some.

Good luck with your decision. I’m a very happy user as my primary goal is met and that’s because of the 2500 nit display I feel is needed outdoors. Be very careful about claims that other monitors with significantly less power are bright enough. If you will often use it in places without mains power, for extended recordings, you need a couple of the fat Sony NP-F970 batteries. And turn if off or slide the power to 100 nits when you’re not actually using it while prepping a shot or recording.
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostWed Jul 22, 2020 2:52 pm

Hey

in one of the first versions when it appeared to be not calibrated at all it switched between playpack and live mode the color. after playback it had a cast but before it ha no blacks. with newer firmware it stays with a constant color cast far from being accurate. It's not like complaining about a TVlogic 075 or so that is not really accurate either. It's more like a complete fail. BMD is not able to make usable monitors at all. So regard it as a recorder or whatever. And no, you cannot calibrate it. there is already some wired lut working inside that makes that cast, probably to get rid of the green tint all bmd monitors have. so if you write a calibration lut it won't work that well and you will never get red in a decent range. I tried at least 20 times to calibrate 2 different HDRs and its just not good. no idea how someone can compare a fsi monitor with this one. so if you claim it can be calibrated with calibrated meaning it stays within the specs of let's say 709 without being in some primary colors extremely off, show it.
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostWed Jul 22, 2020 3:25 pm

Quick question. Did you use a colorimetric device to calibrate it, use your eye, or just add LUT's to it?
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Deyan Parouchev

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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostTue Dec 08, 2020 6:41 pm

I just received mine and I can confirm. This monitor has a very visible color cast (magenta / pink). I compared to the screen of the Ursa mini, and also a small HD, my computer monitor trough USB. All the monitors shows almost the exact same color except the video assist. Very disappointed, because I cannot manage nothing else except contrast and saturation in the monitor. The only way is maybe to create a lut to try to correct the cast... But why pay 1k € for a pretentious monitor...
I run with the last formate 3.3.1 on sdi connectors.
Did someone have a solution? A hope for future update correction...?
Thanks in advance guys!
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Deyan Parouchev

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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostWed Dec 09, 2020 1:23 am

I partially reply to myself, maybe it can be useful to other frustrated buyers. I tried to connect the video assist to my computer (quadro graphic card) and after that to my 4k blu-ray player OPPO 205 (trough the second hdmi output) with Hdmi connectors and curiously the colors are much more accurate. I compared to my calibrated screen and oled TV.
So is the color cast occurs more on the sdi, or when connected to a camera..?
Did someone achieve to get a true hdr signal into this device? An icon is supposed to be shown on this case.
I will be happy to read your ideas!!!.
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Howard Roll

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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostWed Dec 09, 2020 5:38 pm

This is basically why HDMI is the last choice for color critical monitoring. Part of the HDMI handshake is reading an ICC profile from the display. Can't speak to the DVD, the Quadro is going to read the ICC profile and output accordingly. On OSX there are profiles for both Ninja V and ITU-709, the Ninja V output is twisted to account for the panel's deficiencies, 709 is straight thru.

If the machine captures the ICC profile, comparisons can be made between 709 and the VA profiles. Most likely there is some correction.

Good Luck

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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostWed Dec 09, 2020 10:43 pm

I got my monitor (BMVA12G7) yesterday and also have the problem that it shows the colors much warmer.
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Deyan Parouchev

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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostThu Dec 10, 2020 1:28 am

I tried to manage with contrast at 35 and saturation at 45 and applying a more on the green (neutral) side lut and it's better.
Maybe someone possessing this monitor and some advanced tools can create a custom lut to finally calibrate properly this thing?

I have another issue, I tried recording on different resolutions and flavors of ProRes, and when I play back I can only see the few last ones (the last selected resolution and fps project on camera). It's impossible to access the other previous takes. Everything is safely on the cards, but just cannot playback on the screen. Anyone with the same issue? Maybe we should create a new topic for firmware requests?

Unfortunately I own the original Ursa Mini 4,6k, so impossible for me to record b-raw... What a shame... Come on Blackmagic is it really impossible to enable the b-raw on these units? I am still stucked on firmware 4.8 with color science 3...!
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostThu Dec 10, 2020 11:59 am

New firmware update 3.1.2

Did this fix anything?
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostThu Dec 10, 2020 12:09 pm

Well I have just received the BMVA3g7 and It's so Green I can't even look at it. It's a joke, I'm sending it back. Firmware version 3.3.1
BM Video assist Green Cast 2.jpg
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rick.lang

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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostThu Dec 10, 2020 6:21 pm

Deyan, I also connected my BMVA12G7 to my Mac Pro (HDMI feed from the Pro Vega II card) and it looked quite good which would echo the thought that the 7” monitor isn’t the issue with the colour cast. Mine is slightly magenta as I recall but not so much that it seems unusable.
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Deyan Parouchev

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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostThu Dec 10, 2020 8:47 pm

Hi Rick, happy to talk to you again...
You are wright, regarding the result from a computer / Blu-ray 4K player or other devices trough the HDMI the color seems to be accurate enough. The problem seems to come from cameras sources (on SDI for my part). Of course the monitor is usable, and even awesome indeed. This is just a shame that it's not possible to calibrate as Atomos or other brands. Every unit is a little bit deifferent, it's an easy way to have a trusty monitor on the field or in studio/post production.
Maybe in the next firmware... Please Blackmagic team !!?
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rick.lang

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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostThu Dec 10, 2020 8:57 pm

Yes, BMD keeps the updates coming. I was surprised by the streaming capability they added with the latest update. Good job.
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostMon Dec 21, 2020 9:11 am

When I was testing the VA 7" 12G comparing it to my grading monitor and have the VA looped with the Atomos Shogun Flame when connected to the BMPCC4K, the VA has a pink cast, the Shogun has a slight yellow cast. As to which is more accurate I would say the Shogun is more tolerable because it allows me to change the gain on the screen to closer match my grading monitor. I notice when the BMPCC4K switched off the VA 7" 12G screen display defaulted to a pinkish white screen while still looped through the Atomos Shogun HDMI. This pinkish cast backlight I believe should have been how the VA should display white and mirrors exactly how the pinkish cast come to influence the monitor. Unlike the problem reported by the poster were the text are also pink the text on my VA is properly displayed white. I believe the cast is down to the VA not optimise the white signal correctly but I'm not sure why BMD has not corrected it. I've heard different screens were released for the VA 12G so maybe if it is fixed for one version of the screen the problem gets exasperated for another version of the screen? I like to see an option were you can manually calibrate the RGB like you do with your computer monitor screen.
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Christopher Dobey

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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostThu Dec 24, 2020 9:12 pm

Hey Christian! to confirm - is the white balance of all the icons/text on your VA incorrect or only the camera signal?

My VA 12G 5" arrived and I've noticed that the white balance of the interface (i.e. the screen itself) is accurate but how it deals with displaying colors coming in from some HDMI signals are off (RAW from a Nikon Z6 in my case). The good news for me at least is that all this can be fixed in an update since the screen is fine + the resulting VA files are still recorded in correct color when compared to a video file recorded in camera.

Is this the same case for you or is the interface color shifted as well?
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostSat Dec 26, 2020 5:01 pm

Having seen a 5 and 7" next to each other, at least in these two examples, the 5 is much closer to correct with the 7 having an obvious magenta cast. The 5 is slightly warm but nowhere near as off. Not sure why the recommendations in every other thread is for the 7" model. The 5 does everything the 7 does except the analogue mic inputs and second SD slot.

For the Nikon, I assume you loaded a LUT into the Assist first?
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostSun Dec 27, 2020 9:09 am

Been looking online and not a single UK dealer has any stock of the 7” 12G HDR VA.

I know BM are generally a bit slow with getting stock in quantity to dealers but is there a chance this is so they can ‘fix’ the issues discussed here?

Or is it the usual case of demand outstripping supply and throw in a global pandemic etc etc
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostSun Dec 27, 2020 9:17 am

Could be because there is not much demand, people prefer Atomos so fewer were made because of the problem discussed here.
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostSun Dec 27, 2020 8:58 pm

WahWay wrote:Could be because there is not much demand, people prefer Atomos so fewer were made because of the problem discussed here.
Is this genuinely a massive issue or a forum thing - the rule that you only hear when things are crappy.
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostMon Dec 28, 2020 6:37 am

A genuinely massive issue not addressed.
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostTue Dec 29, 2020 6:34 am

Satureyes wrote:Is this genuinely a massive issue or a forum thing..


Read through entire threads on this topic and come to your own conclusions. Sometimes it seems “the sky is falling.” If you need to judge critical colour on the Video Assist, there are excellent waveforms on the BMVA12G7 that will tell me if colour is good and are more reliable than using my eye.
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Re: 7

PostTue Dec 29, 2020 7:39 am

rick.lang wrote:
Satureyes wrote:Is this genuinely a massive issue or a forum thing..


Read through entire threads on this topic and come to your own conclusions. Sometimes it seems “the sky is falling.” If you need to judge critical colour on the Video Assist, there are excellent waveforms on the BMVA12G7 that will tell me if colour is good and are more reliable than using my eye.


Seriousely are you expecting people to buy a VA just for its waveform? :o

We will then not bother with its headlined HDR, 2500 nits, capacity to display LUTs so we can just look at waveform.

No Rick, I judge colour to be reliable and as close as possible with an external monitor as it is to a properly graded monitor with neutral cast. This thread is about colour shifts issue with the VA 12g HDR. Its not about preference working with waveform vs image.
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostTue Dec 29, 2020 8:09 am

Christopher Dobey wrote:Hey Christian! to confirm - is the white balance of all the icons/text on your VA incorrect or only the camera signal?

My VA 12G 5" arrived and I've noticed that the white balance of the interface (i.e. the screen itself) is accurate but how it deals with displaying colors coming in from some HDMI signals are off (RAW from a Nikon Z6 in my case). The good news for me at least is that all this can be fixed in an update since the screen is fine + the resulting VA files are still recorded in correct color when compared to a video file recorded in camera.

Is this the same case for you or is the interface color shifted as well?


Christian is done with the VA 12G HDR. Just a few weeks after he posted he had seen enough and exchanged it for a SmallHD.
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostTue Dec 29, 2020 10:32 am

WahWay wrote:
Christopher Dobey wrote:Hey Christian! to confirm - is the white balance of all the icons/text on your VA incorrect or only the camera signal?

My VA 12G 5" arrived and I've noticed that the white balance of the interface (i.e. the screen itself) is accurate but how it deals with displaying colors coming in from some HDMI signals are off (RAW from a Nikon Z6 in my case). The good news for me at least is that all this can be fixed in an update since the screen is fine + the resulting VA files are still recorded in correct color when compared to a video file recorded in camera.

Is this the same case for you or is the interface color shifted as well?


Christian is done with the VA 12G HDR. Just a few weeks after he posted he had seen enough and exchanged it for a SmallHD.
I saw. However I’m looking at the 7” 12G.

Also it’s one person unhappy and returning it?
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostWed Dec 30, 2020 12:59 pm

Same problem here with the Video Assist 5" 12G and Nikon Z6. I switched from the Atomos Ninja V to be able to use the (B)RAW and as the Resolve is my NLE of choice, the trade was pretty obvious. Now everything has this magenta cast on the VA screen. Especially using Nikon's N-log LUT turns the whole screen red. Oh my.
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostFri Jan 01, 2021 7:16 pm

mmm a very strange thing the fact that BMD develop monitor / recorder without a color calibration.
I develop in past a lut to apply to origina l video assist / videoassist 4k to neutralize original green cast.

If someone in bmd are so kind to gift me a video assist HDR i will be happy to develop a lut to correct this kind of drifiting :-P
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostMon Jan 04, 2021 3:38 am

I figured out the issue for my 5" Video Assist at least (though no solution)

The Z6 outputs RAW to the VA as N-Log Gamma and Rec.2020 Gamut (as displayed on the top of the VA screen during use). The problem is that the screen is actually conforming to Rec.709 giving hyper saturated and shifted colors during clean feed [no LUT applied]. This is checked by loading the RAW file into Resolve - decoding Camera RAW to Rec.2020 [in Rec.709 Timeline] will look on point and decoding to Rec.709 will again look exactly hyper saturated as the VA.

Though to reiterate the user interface white balance is perfectly fine. Since the OP's entire interface looked shifted to magenta from his photo, a LUT could compensate for the input signal but the pinkish icons/text would throw your eyes off quite a bit.
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostSat Jan 09, 2021 2:37 pm

Received my 12G 7" - magenta shift. I just foolishly assumed there would be a mechanism to correct it out. Very disappointing to see it can't be corrected by the user (without adding a lut). Even if you could chain luts together internally to have a corrective lut first that would be useful (that's essentially what an internal calibration is anyway right?). I am a big fan of BM products but this was a huge disappointment.

Contacted support - they were very attentive but didn't have much to offer besides firmware and an RMA. So, back to the shop it goes to be replaced by something else.
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostTue Feb 09, 2021 5:24 pm

I am a new starter with BM VA 5" HDR and NIKON Z6 (with RAW VIDEO activated by NIKON).
When recording BMRAW from NIKON Z6 to VA (all firmwares at the latest stage, all settings on both devices according to documentation) and applying the official NIKON Z6 LUT on the VA I also notified a OVER SATURATION and a MAGENTA SHIFT.
Loading the material to Resolve I also needed to apply a customized LUT that compensated for over saturation and magenta shift.
However, not being able to compensate the over saturation and the magenta shift in the 5" HDR is not an option for me. If you have the same issue what was the reply of BM support on this? I am not willing to accept this. Thanks for your support.

René Jonas
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostTue Feb 09, 2021 6:42 pm

Hello Rene, even though the resulting Nikon Z6 BRAW footage looked incredible when imported into Resolve, I ended up returning my 5" unit because I wasn't willing to wait for BMD to release an update to the oversaturated look while previewing on the viewing assist.

The great thing about BRAW is that it can be previewed like any other video file in the macOS Finder with LUT applied, so if you create a LUT to compensate for the color inaccuracy it will look good on the video assist but then desaturated and off in macOS before importing to Resolve. This doesn't affect everyones work flow but for me with clients in the room it wasn't efficient.

I'll clarify that my VA unit was color accurate and did not have a 'shift' in the sense that the white balance of the user interface was correct. It's that the firmware did not allow for viewing the RAW signal has clean feed Log (desaturated / no contrast), meaning the RAW signal was being converted directly from Linear --> Display choice instead of Linear --> N-Log --> Display (none, Rec. 709, Rec. 2020 etc). So the native signal conversion was therefor way off from the get go and then applying a LUT looked as if two LUTs were being applied (hyper saturation).
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostTue Feb 23, 2021 1:00 pm

Our recently purchased 5" 3G Video Assist also clearly is far too green/warm.

I sent Blackmagic Support an Email about it and hope they have a good solution.
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostThu Feb 25, 2021 12:59 pm

I decided to give them a ring since I wasn't getting any response via email and the customer support person told me they know of the problem and they expect to release a firmware update to resolve yellow/green issue.
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostWed Mar 10, 2021 9:39 am

Blackmagic Video Assist 3.4 Update was just released today.

According to the release notes it:

"improves color calibration on Video Assist 3G and 12G HDR models."
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostWed Mar 10, 2021 10:36 am

FW 3.4 so far so good. Now why has it took so long? Rick Lang even told us to accept the problem :?:
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostWed Mar 10, 2021 7:40 pm

rick.lang wrote:... If you need to judge critical colour on the Video Assist, there are excellent waveforms on the BMVA12G7 that will tell me if colour is good and are more reliable than using my eye.


I’ll be updating the firmware shortly and I certainly hope there’s an improvement to the BMVA12G7 and other screens as I recognize everyone can use their own judgment and workflow that can rely on judging colour via the screen when they know the screen is trustworthy. Good to see the update; I’m curious to see if the colour science on the BMVA12G7 LUTs also reflects Colour Science 5.
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7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostWed Mar 10, 2021 9:17 pm

Well judging by my eye, the screen on the BMPCC4K and the BMVA12G7 are looking the same given the same screen illumination and dynamic range. Thank BMD! I think this bodes well for the pending firmware update to the BMPCC6K Pro cameras.

My screens were close anyway. So how has the update to Video Assist 3.4 been for those whose screens weren’t close?
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostWed Mar 10, 2021 10:28 pm

New Nikon Z9 is coming. 8K stacked full frame sensor capable of 8K video. Don’t know if this includes the option to support BRAW output to the BMVA12G7. More details to come...

https://www.newsshooter.com/2021/03/10/ ... ss-camera/
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostWed Mar 10, 2021 10:44 pm

I was hoping this firmware would address an issue I'm having. I wonder if anyone has any insight -

I am still not quite sure how to get the Video Assist's zebra, histogram, waveform, etc. to match the output (source) and onboard monitor on my Ursa Mini. I remember reading that the HDMI signal was clamped but it appears my SDI signal is as well. For instance, on my Ursa I have my zebra set to 100% but I have to set the VA's zebra to 60% to somewhat match. As well, the other scopes are regulated to a narrow part of the entire range.

This seems to be happening with my original 5" VA and also the new 5" HDR VA. Any ideas?
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7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostWed Mar 10, 2021 11:38 pm

Mark, if I set Clean Feed Off for the BMPCC4K camera and have the HDMI Zebras set to 100% and have the BMVA12G7 Zebras On at 100%, I see the identical amount of Zebras. If I turn Clean Feed On for the BMPCC4K, I only see the same Zebras when I set BMVA12G7 Zebras at 85%.

Not sure why, but the moral of the story appears to be keep Clean Feed Off on the camera while judging exposure.

I also took a look at False Colour and with a camera Clean Feed On, you don’t see False Colour on the BMVA12G7. With camera Clean Feed Off, you see the False Colour but it’s not a perfect Colour match. For example when the BMPCC4K shows a lot of pink with some red and yellow, the BMVA12G7 shows a lot of light grey with my lens at T2.1. With the lens at T4, both screens look quite close with lots of green and pink on them.

Then I thought about my codecs. I had BRAW in the BMPCC4K and of course ProRes on the BMVA12G7. When I switched the camera to ProRes, now the False Colour looks identical at T2.1 and neither has red. And when I go back to the Zebras, both BMPCC4K and BMVA12G7 have identical Zebras! No more problem.

So the Zebras and False Colour do not behave identically if the choice is a BRAW codec on the camera. This makes sense given the inherent differences between those codecs.
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostThu Mar 11, 2021 12:34 am

I'm not seeing anything necessarily unexpected from the Video Assist, but the zebras do work differently than the BMD EVF when connected to the Ursa Mini Pro.

With the Ursa Mini set to record BMD film and a clean feed with the 3D LUT off out of the front SDI, the Ursa EVF zebras will match the zebras on the camera LCD.

On the Video Assist, its video scopes and the zebras only report exactly the signal fed in. With the camera set to record BMD film and a clean feed with the 3D LUT off out of the main SDI, the values of the log signal are what the internal zebras and scopes on the Video Assist will read.

This difference makes sense as the Video Assist is designed for all sorts of cameras as opposed to the purpose built Ursa EVF. The Video Assist scopes and zebras respond the same as any external display would.

A work around if you want to record in BMD Film and have the zebras match on the Video Assist is to turn on the zebras from the camera out the Main SDI and turn off the zebras in the Video Assist.
EDIT - And I should add that this method for matching the zebras between the camera and the Video Assist works regardless of any LUTs on either the camera feed or in the Video Assist itself.
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostThu Mar 11, 2021 2:31 am

rick.lang wrote:Mark, if I set Clean Feed Off for the BMPCC4K camera and have the HDMI Zebras set to 100% and have the BMVA12G7 Zebras On at 100%, I see the identical amount of Zebras. If I turn Clean Feed On for the BMPCC4K, I only see the same Zebras when I set BMVA12G7 Zebras at 85%.

Not sure why, but the moral of the story appears to be keep Clean Feed Off on the camera while judging exposure.

I also took a look at False Colour and with a camera Clean Feed On, you don’t see False Colour on the BMVA12G7. With camera Clean Feed Off, you see the False Colour but it’s not a perfect Colour match. For example when the BMPCC4K shows a lot of pink with some red and yellow, the BMVA12G7 shows a lot of light grey with my lens at T2.1. With the lens at T4, both screens look quite close with lots of green and pink on them.

Then I thought about my codecs. I had BRAW in the BMPCC4K and of course ProRes on the BMVA12G7. When I switched the camera to ProRes, now the False Colour looks identical at T2.1 and neither has red. And when I go back to the Zebras, both BMPCC4K and BMVA12G7 have identical Zebras! No more problem.

So the Zebras and False Colour do not behave identically if the choice is a BRAW codec on the camera. This makes sense given the inherent differences between those codecs.


Thanks Rick for checking this. It seems the G2 and 12k in combination with the OG VA 5" and new VA 5" do not behave this way. It seems no matter what I choose, it is still clamping (I believe is the correct term) the scopes and zebra. The image, though, does look the same (I think).


Jamie LeJeune wrote:I'm not seeing anything necessarily unexpected from the Video Assist, but the zebras do work differently than the BMD EVF when connected to the Ursa Mini Pro.

With the Ursa Mini set to record BMD film and a clean feed with the 3D LUT off out of the front SDI, the Ursa EVF zebras will match the zebras on the camera LCD.

On the Video Assist, its video scopes and the zebras only report exactly the signal fed in. With the camera set to record BMD film and a clean feed with the 3D LUT off out of the main SDI, the values of the log signal are what the internal zebras and scopes on the Video Assist will read.

This difference makes sense as the Video Assist is designed for all sorts of cameras as opposed to the purpose built Ursa EVF. The Video Assist scopes and zebras respond the same as any external display would.

A work around if you want to record in BMD Film and have the zebras match on the Video Assist is to turn on the zebras from the camera out the Main SDI and turn off the zebras in the Video Assist.
EDIT - And I should add that this method for matching the zebras between the camera and the Video Assist works regardless of any LUTs on either the camera feed or in the Video Assist itself.


Thanks, Jamie for the info. Much appreciated.

"On the Video Assist, its video scopes and the zebras only report exactly the signal fed in. With the camera set to record BMD film and a clean feed with the 3D LUT off out of the main SDI, the values of the log signal are what the internal zebras and scopes on the Video Assist will read."

- My setup, unfortunately, is not behaving this way. When I have it set up to reflect what you just described the zebras on the VA are still not displaying correctly (the only kick in at 60% and the scopes are clamped).

- Yes, your workaround does work. But, one of the biggest reasons to use the VA (for myself anyways) is the dual record function, and the zebras would ruin the image.
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostThu Mar 11, 2021 2:42 am

I’ll try another test with the URSA Mini 4.6K and the BMVA12G7 on another day. That may confirm what you’re seeing on your camera.
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostThu Mar 11, 2021 2:55 am

Mark Wyatt wrote: When I have it set up to reflect what you just described the zebras on the VA are still not displaying correctly (the only kick in at 60% and the scopes are clamped).
If you're feeding a BMD Film signal to the Video Assist without a REC709 LUT on the SDI output, that is what the signal is. It will max out far below 100% unless the ISO is set really high.
EDIT - and I should add that applying a REC709 LUT in the Video Assist itself will have no effect on the scopes nor the zebras. They both read from the signal only, not the transform applied inside the Video Assist.

Are you saying the signal appears clamped even with a REC709 LUT (or a BMD Video LUT) on the Main SDI output?

Do you have a Decklink or other capture device with SDI input so you can send the signal directly in Resolve and check it there. The scopes in Resolve and on the Video Assist should read exactly the signal exactly the same.
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostThu Mar 11, 2021 3:22 am

Jamie LeJeune wrote:
Mark Wyatt wrote: When I have it set up to reflect what you just described the zebras on the VA are still not displaying correctly (the only kick in at 60% and the scopes are clamped).
If you're feeding a BMD Film signal to the Video Assist without a REC709 LUT on the SDI output, that is what the signal is. It will max out far below 100% unless the ISO is set really high.
EDIT - and I should add that applying a REC709 LUT in the Video Assist itself will have no effect on the scopes nor the zebras. They both read from the signal only, not the transform applied inside the Video Assist.

Are you saying the signal appears clamped even with a REC709 LUT (or a BMD Video LUT) on the Main SDI output?

Do you have a Decklink or other capture device with SDI input so you can send the signal directly in Resolve and check it there. The scopes in Resolve and on the Video Assist should read exactly the signal exactly the same.


Thanks, Jamie.

To clarify:

- URSA with BMD Film & Clean Feed on SDI -> VA = The VA zebras kick in at 60% and the scopes are clamped. (as you mentioned)

- URSA with BMD Extended Video LUT or Video LUT on SDI -> VA = The VA zebras kick in at 90% and the scopes are clamped, *EDIT - but not as clamped as the other two scenarios

- URSA with BMD Film and Clean Feed on SDI -> VA (with a rec 709 display LUT) the Zebras kick in at 60% and the scopes are clamped. (as you mentioned)

*Edit - so, I guess this is how it is designed to work. I wish I could record the BMD film as backup, but also have Zebras and Scopes that either reflect the recorded or monitored image.

I do not have a SDI input device to check on Resolve, unfortunately.
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostThu Mar 11, 2021 3:41 am

Sounds like it is all working normally to me.

If you put the BMD Video LUT on the SDI output, you'll see the top of any clipped highlights hit a max of about 98% on the video assist. If the zebras are set to 100% they will never kick in, but they will when set to 95%. It appears that is just how the BMD Video LUT is designed. Hook could perhaps explain why it doesn't reach exactly 100%.
EDIT- Ah, please excuse me. I was looking only at 800 ISO. The top of the highlights will vary between 90% and ~99% depending on the ISO. But in all cases 100% zebras will not be triggered.

So, yeah, unfortunately, there is no current solution for what you want to do unless BMD added some special mode to the Video Assist to allow it to interpret the log signal of BMD Film like the Ursa EVF does. At the moment, the Video Assist works the same way as any other external monitor/recorder.
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostThu Mar 11, 2021 3:59 am

Thanks, Jamie.

I swear the original Ursa Mini combined with the original VA did what I'm after, but I'm probably not remembering correctly. Anyways, appreciate the help!
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostThu Mar 11, 2021 6:21 am

Glad it was useful.

And who knows, maybe it used to work that way ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostThu Mar 11, 2021 5:30 pm

Testing this morning: On the UM4.6K (firmware 4.8 original), for both CDNG and ProRes, Zebras at 100% and False Colour both appear identical when generated on the UM4.6K and generated on the original URSA BMVA.

Now with SDI Out from the HD Front SDI to the BMVA12G7, the Zebras are identical when independently generated on the camera and the BMVA12G7. This is with CDNG on the UM4.6K and ProRes on the BMVA12G7. Also true when ProRes 12-bit XQ or 10-bit HQ is on the UM4.6K.

However, there appears to be a significant difference with False Colour. The BMVA12G7 appears to be more sensitive showing red when the UM4.6K shows yellow in my bright sky. Under a lampshade, the UM4.6K shows light grey with a red ballast but the BMVA12G7 shows yellow on part of the lampshade and all yellow under the lampshade. This is occurring with the effects generated independently as the camera is sending Clean Feed On to the BMVA12G7.

Same behaviour using the 12G SDI on the UM4.6K.

To conclude, Zebras performed identically on the UM4.6K LCD, UMVA, and BMVA12G7 in both CDNG and ProRes. So I’d have no concerns using Zebras when shooting with the UM4.6K and the BMVA or the BMVA12G7.

False Colour has the BMVA12G7 too sensitive in all these various settings (unless you are sending Clean Feed Off).
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Re: 7" Video Assist HDR Color shift still an issue? 3.1

PostThu Mar 11, 2021 6:52 pm

Thanks, Rick!

rick.lang wrote:Testing this morning: On the UM4.6K (firmware 4.8 original), for both CDNG and ProRes, Zebras at 100% and False Colour both appear identical when generated on the UM4.6K and generated on the original URSA BMVA.


- What are your settings for this? For your LCD do you have any LUT applied, and for the SDI out do you have No LUT and Clean Feed selected?
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