Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 6K still photography

How is the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 6K still photography? I'm looking for a camera that's multipurpose—focusing more on video, but able to take excellent still photos as well. One application that I'm looking into for still photography are panoramas for virtual tours.

Forget to use pockets like still camera with still button. It’s slow and not usable.
I obtained a great result shooting small sequence brawQ0, and later with a just organized resolve project extract single frame tif 16 bit for later editing.
If you think different you can obtain a great result and like you could see in a post on my blog you can see that picture quality of dng uncompressed and braw Q0 are very near.
You can download original file of tests.

http://www.macchiavello.com/wp/en/shoot ... a-cameras/


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Erik, if you need advanced still photo support (more than just taking a single frame grab), then you need to look at a Nikon Z6 or Panasonic SH Camera, not the BMD Pocket cameras, which are cinematic video cameras.
Cheers

Or the Sigma fp.

Or BM, just offers a descent pro still mode.

That would required additional hardware in the camera, so a new camera designed to add this functionality would be needed.
Cheers

A new switchable FPGA pattern, and what new hardware? Font say CPU, because there are a number of small softycore CPUs, and I have been in contact with a few of them. And a stills mode is largerly extra menus and extra configuration sections, with little which could not be done through the FPGA. But if there is something, I would love to hear it. I have never heard any thing concrete about why their fpgas couldn't do this if that, in all these years. It's like your looking for the IP technique information from Jim at Red.

To my point of view, it’s only resolve matter no hardware matter.

1) shooting in q0 (most of photo raw are compressed, why not this?)
2 import in resolve and choose frame to use like photo export like single frame dng
3 load all single frames braw exported
3 export like dng raw uncompressed (or compressed) and voila you can load and edit it in every photo software.

Why this workflow?
- you have a raw iso indipendent (not common on photo environment)
- you can shoot long continuous shooting than every other photo camera
- you output raw dng (it’s possible with many tool from dng converter Adobe from different cameras to dng, from iridiens dng converter and more
- you have ability to start edit in resolve or export and edit raw in other photo tools

What Blackmagic Design must do?
Only ability (develop) export dng raw from frames of resolve, which is possible be cause dng framework work exactly to move raw data from custom format to a more common and comfortable container like dng.


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Just get a stills camera for stills. It will have genuine RAW for a start and much more comprehensive stills picture controls.

Just get a stills camera for stills. It will have genuine RAW for a start and much more comprehensive stills picture controls.

As Uli pointed out above, the Sigma fp would be a good choice for this, especially since it "speaks" cinematography so if you're used to using a cinema camera you'll be at home in the cine mode whereas a stills photographer will be equally at home in the stills mode.

It's not the highest-resolution full-frame camera out there for stills, but 24 megapixels should be more than adequate for most people. I believe it has the same Sony sensor as the Nikon Z6. Lots of lenses can be adapted for L-mount, including PL mount cine lenses, so it's a flexible solution in that regard.

The main drawback on the cine side is the enormous raw files; if you're shooting raw on the fp you can expect to fill up 1 terabyte SSDs at a good clip. You can reduce the file size afterward using slimRAW if storage is at a premium.

There are lots of reviews online. New firmware is coming out shortly that should fix some bugs and add a bunch of new features and capabilities. It's a work-in-progress camera.

They have announced ProRes RAW (externally) too.

Yes, all good, and the Nikon Z mount can be adapted to different mounts, including PL and Sony E mount, which opens the way for those nice Zeiss E mount lenses, like the 16-35mm on the Nikon Z6.
Cheers

How is the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 6K still photography? I'm looking for a camera that's multipurpose—focusing more on video, but able to take excellent still photos as well. One application that I'm looking into for still photography are panoramas for virtual tours.

sounds like you need a dslr. look at the canon 1dx mark III. the pocket 6k is a cinema camera. you shoot at a high frame rate and take stills from that if you like.

BMD has already expanded the p4-6 camera to non cinema market like the online streaming so why not go further a put some stills capability? Digital stabilization can also be added. It doesnt have to compete with mirrorless cameras it just has to make decent enough photos for videographers that also needs good stills . Carring two cameras is a b@#ch

Ricardo Marty

then get a dslr. simple.

The Pocket 6K can take a decent still single DNG file at 6K resolution. Bit a still camera it is not.
It does not produce JPEGs, lacks any stabilization, which is not likely to be added. Still DNGs were added primarily for stop motion shooting, or doing frames for animation, not for general still photography.
Cheers

then get a dslr. simple.

I got to go to a way out places to shoot and take photos usually four miles on foot and I want the best I can do. I like braw and the p4k and I just want to have one camera. so say something intelligent or keep quiet. Having the p4k with extra capabilities won't make you a lesser cinematographer .



Ricardo Marty

If bmd didn't want this they wouldn't have placed a shutter button.
Im not asking for advanced camera options I'm not asking for a Nikon or Canon style photo camera just one that will let us take pictures, Hear the click, find them. It could be just raw. Use the same camera capacities but in a photo-oriented menu or maybe automatic
Just make it easier than it is now.. \

Ricardo Marty

Marty, no it would not be a simple change to increase still photo features on the Pocket Cameras, and this would take a new camera, with different hardware, and you might loose some of the excellent video magic, when you start making compromises required to add advanced still photography. With all the complaints on the current still button use issues, if BMD could do a quick fix, I am sure they would have done so. Perhaps they are working on this. We will not know until it gets released.

I understand your desire to keep your shooting simple and only hauling around one camera. I ended up getting a Nikon Z6 6K Camera for this very reason, before the Pocket 6K came out. When I am out in the field shooting stills with the occasional video shots, the Z6 works for me. When I want to shoot some serious video, with higher quality, I breakout my Pocket 4K camera. If I needed a higher resolution or was doing primarily full 4K shooting, than the Pocket 6K would fit the bill. When I am doing video work, I do not need any stills other than then occasional quick shot for a continuity check, and the current setup works for this. Yes, it is a pain not hearing the click but I often turn this off on my Z6 too.

For background in mix camera use, Look at the GH5, great still camera IBIS stabilization, OK for video work, has compression limitations and no raw video recording, the came the GH5/S, improved video production, dual gain sensor, but no in camera stabilization, which had to go, to get the better video type sensor. Still, the GH5S takes still images, but limited to the sensor native 5-6K resolution, still no internal Raw or ProRes recording, due to limitations needed for the still photography requirements for the camera. Part of this is marketing the camera to avoid EU Pro Video production added taxes, and have one camera for world wide market.

BMD stripped the additional still photography functionality hardware requirements to get a pure Cinema quality video image, increasing the camera’s processor to concentrate on the camera IQ, and allow processing capability for higher end recording codecs and Raw Video recording in camera. So the compromise shifted more away from still photography use to Cinematic quality video shooting.

What you want is kind of like, trying to have your cake and eating it at the same time — hard to do.
Cheers

Marty, no it would not be a simple change to increase still photo features on the Pocket Cameras, and this would take a new camera, with different hardware, and you might loose some of the excellent video magic, when you start making compromises required to add advanced still photography.

I understand your desire to keep your shooting simple and only hauling around one camera. I ended up getting a Nikon Z6 6K Camera before the Pocket 6K came out. When I am out in the field shooting stills with the occasional video shots, the Z6;works for me. When I want to shoot some serious video, with higher quality, I breakout my Pocket 4K camera. If I needed a higher resolution or was doing primarily full 4K shooting, than the Picket 6K would fit the bill.

Look at the GH5, great still camera IBIS stabilization, OK for video work, has compression limitations and no raw video recording, the came the GH5/S, improved video production, dual gain sensor, but no in camera stabilization, which had to go, to get the better video type sensor. Still, the GH5S takes still images, but limited to the sensor native 5-6K resolution, still no internal Raw or ProRes recording, due to limitations needed for the still photography requirements for the camera. Part of this is marketing the camera to avoid EU Pro Video production added taxes, and have one camera for world wide market.

BMD stripped the additional still photography functionality hardware requirements to get a pure Cinema quality video image, increasing the camera’s processor to concentrate on the camera IQ, and allow processing capability for higher end recording codecs and Raw Video recording in camera. So the compromise shifted more away from still photography use to Cinematic quality video shooting.

What you want is kind of like, trying to have your cake and eating it at the same time — hard to do.
Cheers

Well, At least Id wants a click sound and a photo folder separate from video. and improvements that can be done. A software stabilization could doable I think, and it would be great for videos with non stabilized lenses. I have a Sony a6600 which is light and capable. I don't need anything higher than this for photos and some basic videos. But I want raw and the p4k controls and dynamic range. So for now I take both.

Thanks for your input.

Ricardo Marty

then get a dslr. simple.

so say something intelligent or keep quiet.



Ricardo Marty

- says the guy asking for a cinema camera to shoot photos.

The 1DX shoots raw and amazing pictures. So many cameras can record raw externally now... get a dslr or take still from 6K HFR. Those are your options. Idk what all the discussion is about.

Denny, you never describe what new hardware is needed, or why the old hardware can't?

Most all features for a basic pro stills setup, are software


It is confusing as to why you say this?

Wayne, I am not a hardware engineer, I come from a mathematic theoretical engineering and photo optical development background, before I chucked that in for a career in photography/videography. Yes it is software, but the processor hardware needs to be able to support the hardware.
You need to ask BMD this question, good luck getting an answer...
Cheers

Wayne, I am not a hardware engineer, I come from a mathematic theoretical engineering and photo optical development background, before I chucked that in for a career in photography/videography. Yes it is software, but the processor hardware needs to be able to support the hardware.
You need to ask BMD this question, good luck getting an answer...
Cheers

Denny, you have been telling us it's not possible, now you are telling us you wouldn't know. Negative curve balls just negate discussion on progress.

It would be unusual not usual, for such a processing system not to be able to be programmed for basic pro camera functionality. Maybe you have to have paid firmware license to pay for some patent licensing, but most basic pro stills functionality should be out of patent. Even if you have to get the FPGA, or through soft CPU to do it. The system already loads in FPGA image to change modes I understand, a stills mode could at least use that. I would rather enthusiastic energy about discussing what bis possible, rather then about what could be possible being impossible. Enthusiastic energy leads to support, and might just lead to implementation.

It is great tool for the BTS or the lone operator, to be able to switch to using the other feature, or be able to use the camera differently between jobs. Frankly, if they had a 12x zoom with aperture of f1.0+ in a compact hybrid liquid pancake, I'd be like yippee, pass it over with a compact pocket and psbk all the equipment needed into a more transportable size. Of course, we are far from achieving that, but if we aim for something realistically disable one day, we might get there one day (not saying such a lens is possible, just an illustration). You have to be out front or the competition can undercut you. Red hasn't transitioned into the Arri high end etc etc level yet, do they are open to being replaced and sent to the wall. It requires a out of wisdom and smarts, and they are just stuck between the low end and high end pro. So, it is about the brand.

Wayne, I said it probably was a hardware issue, based on comparing what the mirrorless cameras are using for a processor, compared to BMD Is using. I am out of here.
Cheers

That would required additional hardware in the camera, so a new camera designed to add this functionality would be needed.
Cheers

Denny.

Marty, no it would not be a simple change to increase still photo features on the Pocket Cameras, and this would take a new camera, with different hardware, and you might loose some of the excellent video magic, when you start making compromises required to add advanced still photography.
..

What you want is kind of like, trying to have your cake and eating it at the same time — hard to do.
Cheers

Denny, I've got a lot of respect for you, and would like to know about your optical skill set too, but don't dismiss me. I know the specialisation they do on top of stills cameras, but most have sensors no better than the pocket's it's safe enough within the range.

The problem with me around here, is that I am a systemist and mechanist, I see things in relation to the intricate intersections, dependencies and concepts of systems, mechanisms and designs. They dance around before my eyes, to my tune. I'm an artist of the practical's beauty. People don't see like that.

Yes, the sensor is not the issue, but rather how the data is processed for Video vs still photography, and the hardware used for the processing. Doing a simple still capture using BRaw or CDNG file is not an issue.
But adding all the still bells and whistles, like “clicking” which adds noise to camera for the video, JPEG still frames, thumbnail display of still images, etc adds to the camera processing system, which on the Pocket 4/6K is maxed out to record ProRes and Raw in Camera high bandwidth video.

While it may look like a mirrorless General photography camera (GH5, OEM, Nikon Z, etc) its internal bits are pure Cine/Video production, like a Panasonic EVA or the Ursa Mini series. The Pocket cameras actually use the Ursa Mini operating system (FW OS).

Not saying you can not have both technologically, but not in the current Pocket Camera, you would need to start over an design a new camera/hardware/software configuration to get both feature sets into one camera. What I am saying a simple FW update is not going to add features to the current Pocket Camera, if the hardware/software set can not support it.
Cheers

I got to go to a way out places to shoot and take photos usually four miles on foot and I want the best I can do. I like braw and the p4k and I just want to have one camera.

If you are four miles on foot and the unthinkable happens and your only camera dies, you will need to go another four miles on foot (at least) to get a substitute/backup/replacement camera, then another four on top of that to get back to where you were.

Do you really want to be that far into a project and not have a backup on hand?

Take your cinema camera for cinema work, a stills-oriented camera for still photo work (if you are carrying a pocket 4K then I would suggest a Panasonic GH series or Olympus OM-D series as these will share lenses with the pocket 4K and reduce the "extra" stuff you would need to carry) then if something happens to either one at least you can keep going with the other.

Sage advice Frank, a grand point.
Cheers

I got to go to a way out places to shoot and take photos usually four miles on foot and I want the best I can do. I like braw and the p4k and I just want to have one camera.

If you are four miles on foot and the unthinkable happens and your only camera dies, you will need to go another four miles on foot (at least) to get a substitute/backup/replacement camera, then another four on top of that to get back to where you were.

Do you really want to be that far into a project and not have a backup on hand?

Take your cinema camera for cinema work, a stills-oriented camera for still photo work (if you are carrying a pocket 4K then I would suggest a Panasonic GH series or Olympus OM-D series as these will share lenses with the pocket 4K and reduce the "extra" stuff you would need to carry) then if something happens to either one at least you can keep going with the other.

I carry p4k and sony a6600 plus My my 2 iphones so just want my p4k and my two i phones



Ricardo Marty

The basics are not that different or difficult.

Now I realise I was confusing you with somebody from Austria, and wondering why you were acting so differently, due to the memory issues.

i just have also a photo camera, but not everytime i want to grab it with me (camera + adapter + different batteries mean since 1kg more weight), and my backpack usually is from 12-15 kg with tripods, cameras, lenses and more.
Ability to shoot photo (there is a photo button, i ask it from production camera 4k, if they put on camera should work a bit) with pockets, especially now with 6k (21 mpx) is good thing.

i only ask for a better workflow later.
For shooting i shoot with sd, q0 braw, camera stop when drop frame (few second later) and i'm happy, rarely review my photo in camera, also with photo camera, shooting short video allow me to review perfectly picture, i'm going to shoot long shot like in photocamera, with less limits.

only if (sometime) i would like to shoot in dng i only like to see more responsivness to button, both pockets seems like toy camera of my nephew... not accettable.

Many people would like to do photo with cinema camera for different colors, me too, also if i know quite well color correction and raw developing from since 15 years i like different color science, the reason that my photocamera is a fuji, with xtrans sensor and different color science, and i like to shoot with bmd for their color. In past for my gh5 i develop lut (to preview) and color process to be near to color that i like.

cinema camera continue to be a cinema camera, not had viefinder like photo camera, not have autofocus, not had braketing, not had long exposure and more, but in many situation can grab excellent picture which i like to grab. If we understand the weak and strong point, we can work on strong and turn around weak point

Nicely put Carlo, I agree completely. I think, as Rick pointed out, the tick is knowing that the still photo is recorded when you release the button, not press it, which is counter intuitive, but it works.
Cheers

Carlo, pretty much what I was saying, but I want just basic pro functionality and press and releade to auto set in still a d cinema for ease of dynamic workflow. Stuff which every $19 camera could do (they prefer to leave the easy manual settings off to get you to spend 100-1000x the price). Fancy looks modes with AI precessing and computational photography, not needed. 90% of the stuff in a still camera menus, not needed if you have manual and press and release auto set. Still Pro, for user to decide. However, on a new model, a proper prosumer mode could be added with a fuller still mode. For a firmware update, just the basics. Press start marking a range of frames, release, stop marking and save last frame as a photo (or option to save the first frame and first and last frame, and to just take a picture if quickly pressed and not held). Still mainly a manual camera. Simple.

Asking for ever simpler stuff for your money, to get it implemented is generally not going get you much, and undermines community attempts to ask for reasonable improvements. There is a certain amount which is reasonably practically doable before it gets too hard. That's where you stop. For a firmware update you can only expect many times less then a new design. Late in the design cycle you expects a lot lot less. 3-5 years time, speculate what could be done, because it's the smaller amount of time and the greater the competing commitments which are the real restrictions on how much of the practically doable, is possible. Expense and profit is part of that formula on the competing commitments side. I personally believe they should still had been updating the original pocket until 2-3 years after last sold. Most of that would be minor fix and updates after the functionality becomes full. However, Braw for the original pocket.

They have announced ProRes RAW (externally) too.

Actually it turns out the Sigma fp will also be able to record BRAW using one of the new Video Assist recorders (for the older Video Assist 4K it looks like it can record ProRes); firmware 2.0 released today for the Sigma fp says "Supports compressed raw recording with ATOMOS and Blackmagic Design external recorders." However, it notes that this will require a firmware update to those recorders, which has not yet been released.

Carlo, pretty much what I was saying, but I want just basic pro functionality and press and releade to auto set in still a d cinema for ease of dynamic workflow. Stuff which every $19 camera could do (they prefer to leave the easy manual settings off to get you to spend 100-1000x the price). Fancy looks modes with AI precessing and computational photography, not needed. 90% of the stuff in a still camera menus, not needed if you have manual and press and release auto set. Still Pro, for user to decide. However, on a new model, a proper prosumer mode could be added with a fuller still mode. For a firmware update, just the basics. Press start marking a range of frames, release, stop marking and save last frame as a photo (or option to save the first frame and first and last frame, and to just take a picture if quickly pressed and not held). Still mainly a manual camera. Simple.

Asking for ever simpler stuff for your money, to get it implemented is generally not going get you much, and undermines community attempts to ask for reasonable improvements. There is a certain amount which is reasonably practically doable before it gets too hard. That's where you stop. For a firmware update you can only expect many times less then a new design. Late in the design cycle you expects a lot lot less. 3-5 years time, speculate what could be done, because it's the smaller amount of time and the greater the competing commitments which are the real restrictions on how much of the practically doable, is possible. Expense and profit is part of that formula on the competing commitments side. I personally believe they should still had been updating the original pocket until 2-3 years after last sold. Most of that would be minor fix and updates after the functionality becomes full. However, Braw for the original pocket.

I completely agree with you, I ask in feature request and with post a single shot button from the time of production camera 4K in 2014, when I use the time lapse function for single shot shooting.
when I saw it on ursa and later on pocket I was happy... until I test how it work on pocket4k and pocket6k.
Anyway i’used to find the best way to use my tool, also if not well developed for my necessity.

the perfect camera not exist at actual time, canon r5 seems very interesting spec, but I wait before to sell and buy, one thing Are specs and one things are the real using of products.
I will see.


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Just to play (i had too much time in this period )
pocket 6k source and my cat Trilly (she want to be competitor with Bloom's Cats ).

here the braw source https://bit.ly/38nv716

Looking good, you will have to start a YouTube channel just for cat videos to keep up with Bloom.

Ooh, does Bloom have cat videos!

Looking good, you will have to start a YouTube channel just for cat videos to keep up with Bloom.

Ooh, does Bloom have cat videos!

Cats are ones of most difficult to grab correct photo with eyes in focus, thanks to Bloom and his asking to Sony now we all have more precise autofocus on their dslr.

Looking good, you will have to start a YouTube channel just for cat videos to keep up with Bloom.

Ooh, does Bloom have cat videos!

Eye focus for human and animals is awesome for video and focus in the sony a6600

Ricardo Marty

Cats are ones of most difficult to grab correct photo with eyes in focus, thanks to Bloom and his asking to Sony now we all have more precise autofocus on their dslr.

Carlo, thanks for those shots. Love the last one. I recently got the Sony A7RIV and it has the animal focus feature. Sadly, I have no pets (too much travel). But I agree that in situations where I'm shooting video that the Pocket 6K's still feature (though it could use some work) would be good enough generally. I've seen some stills from the P6K on reddit as well that are pretty nice as well.

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Just to play (i had too much time in this period )
pocket 6k source and my cat Trilly (she want to be competitor with Bloom's Cats ).

here the braw source https://bit.ly/38nv716

Hi Carlo,

I downloaded the photos in your link and I'm curious about some things. What lens did you use? Are these photos straight out of the camera or did you process them? Was any diffusion used?

Thanks

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Schermata 2020-07-02 alle 10.59.35.jpeg

Just to play (i had too much time in this period )
pocket 6k source and my cat Trilly (she want to be competitor with Bloom's Cats ).

here the braw source https://bit.ly/38nv716

Hi Carlo,

I downloaded the photos in your link and I'm curious about some things. What lens did you use? Are these photos straight out of the camera or did you process them? Was any diffusion used?

Thanks

Hi Robert,
For braw frames, no post in braw.
I used a sigma 18-35 1.8, at 1.8 for all if I remember correctly.
I found a good used unit and I want to try it with some shooting.
These “photos” are frame extracted from q0 shooting without developing, in log.
I not did any kind of post, sharpening or other.
When you load photos in software like captureOne, Lightroom, Cameraraw them apply many auto adjustment from camera curve to a bit of sharpness to many other.
I add braw frames naked to avoid that someone think I “trick” on some way on them.

To see them correctly I must load on resolve, aces color space, or Rcm color space with cts ofx to apply change of color space and move on correct color space and more.


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a very simple developing, a kodachrome lut from Frank Glencairn, a bit of contrast and sharp
i linked from my website to avoid 1mb attachment limits of forum. you can zoom in.
less tack sharp then a common photocamera, but this a cinema sensor, but if you downsampling thinking it's a simple 18 mpx it's quite good.

a very simple developing, a kodachrome lut from Frank Glencairn, a bit of contrast and sharp
i linked from my website to avoid 1mb attachment limits of forum. you can zoom in.
less tack sharp then a common photocamera, but this a cinema sensor, but if you downsampling thinking it's a simple 18 mpx it's quite good.

Yes Human,


I'm looking at you.

I shall Rule..


You all!

Hi Robert,
For braw frames, no post in braw.
I used a sigma 18-35 1.8, at 1.8 for all if I remember correctly.
I found a good used unit and I want to try it with some shooting.
These “photos” are frame extracted from q0 shooting without developing, in log.
I not did any kind of post, sharpening or other.
When you load photos in software like captureOne, Lightroom, Cameraraw them apply many auto adjustment from camera curve to a bit of sharpness to many other.
I add braw frames naked to avoid that someone think I “trick” on some way on them.

To see them correctly I must load on resolve, aces color space, or Rcm color space with cts ofx to apply change of color space and move on correct color space and more.

Thanks, this and your next post are very interesting. Very nice photos.

Thanks, this and your next post are very interesting. Very nice photos.

Thanks, you are very kind. May be in this period i had too much free time, may be i like to do test to know what to do when i will restart to work ;-D
it's a way to keep busy my mind instead to think to covid and a lots of works disappeared

here a test for every people that think that cdng are better than braw Q0

blind test, i not tell you what is what. it's UHD video of simple slide between two frames, NO POST.
here the source:
https://bit.ly/31KpnNW