Ursa Mini Pro 12K is here

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Yogendra Singh

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Ursa Mini Pro 12K is here

PostThu Jul 16, 2020 5:17 pm

Blackmagic surprised every one with its new 12k camera. Super 35 sensor.
8k 110 fps no crop, 4k 220p with crop.
Price $9,995.
I would have loved a full frame sensor.
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Re: Ursa Mini Pro 12K is here

PostThu Jul 16, 2020 5:18 pm

Let the complaining begin....why not 16K!?!? :roll: :roll: :roll:
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Re: Ursa Mini Pro 12K is here

PostThu Jul 16, 2020 5:26 pm

It is not really Ursa Mini Pro 12K. It is new type of sensor, that is their own, new colour sience, updated RAW, optimised Davince Resolve, and it all working beautifully together.

Probaly 2021 NAB we will see the same on other cameras, just lower resolution.
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Re: Ursa Mini Pro 12K is here

PostThu Jul 16, 2020 5:28 pm

Kays Alatrakchi wrote:Let the complaining begin....why not 16K!?!? :roll: :roll: :roll:

There should be 2 versions with super 35 and full frame.
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Re: Ursa Mini Pro 12K is here

PostThu Jul 16, 2020 5:30 pm

Yogendra Singh wrote:Blackmagic surprised every one with its new 12k camera. Super 35 sensor.
8k 110 fps no crop, 6k 220p with crop.
Price $9,995.
I would have loved a full frame sensor.


Their is no crop. It will be 12k.8,4k. full

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Re: Ursa Mini Pro 12K is here

PostThu Jul 16, 2020 5:34 pm

ricardo marty wrote:Their is no crop. It will be 12k.8,4k. full

Ricardo Marty

there is a crop when shot at 220p
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Re: Ursa Mini Pro 12K is here

PostThu Jul 16, 2020 5:45 pm

Yogendra Singh wrote:
ricardo marty wrote:Their is no crop. It will be 12k.8,4k. full

Ricardo Marty

there is a crop when shot at 220p


I think that true for all cameras that shoot at higher frame rates at least in this price range, But I doubt most will shoot a full feature at the rate,


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Re: Ursa Mini Pro 12K is here

PostThu Jul 16, 2020 5:48 pm

Yes you can choose to crop it to 6K Super 16 (up to 120fps) or 4K Super 16 (up to 220) if you want to but you are not FORCED to crop if you'd like to shoot full sensor 8K or full sensor 4K.
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Re: Ursa Mini Pro 12K is here

PostThu Jul 16, 2020 5:52 pm

Well, there's something I don't really need compared to an 4k/8k Micro.

No 8k camera or new micro?
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Re: Ursa Mini Pro 12K is here

PostThu Jul 16, 2020 5:59 pm

Feel like this one is way beyond me. Not every camera is aimed at me though. My mind is blown from it all. Congrats to Grant and the team as this has definitely won them the internet and all other announcements seems piddling now in comparison including those coming up. Reckon I'll stick with figuring out the full potential of the pocket 4k for awhile yet though.
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Re: Ursa Mini Pro 12K is here

PostThu Jul 16, 2020 6:10 pm

Can someone either from BM or elsewhere explain to me the advantage of having a true rgb sensor means. as I feel like this maybe the most important thing? Also global or rolling?
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Re: Ursa Mini Pro 12K is here

PostThu Jul 16, 2020 6:23 pm

Michael Sandiford wrote:Can someone either from BM or elsewhere explain to me the advantage of having a true rgb sensor means. as I feel like this maybe the most important thing? Also global or rolling?


Pretty awesome pictures, generated form equal numbers of red, green and blue pixels.

I think there’s a wonderful smoothness to the look of the camera and great subtlety and nuance.

Don’t think about 12k.

Think about amazing looking colour and skin tones....

That you can shoot as the same size sensor in 4K RAW if you’re allergic to double digit resolution.

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Re: Ursa Mini Pro 12K is here

PostThu Jul 16, 2020 6:27 pm

Wayne Steven wrote:Well, there's something I don't really need compared to an 4k/8k Micro.
No 8k camera or new micro?


Grant did say at the outset that the Ursa Mini serves as a test platform for their new technologies. This implies that tech developed for the Ursa will trickle down to other new models over time.
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Re: Ursa Mini Pro 12K is here

PostThu Jul 16, 2020 6:35 pm

John Brawley wrote:
Michael Sandiford wrote:Can someone either from BM or elsewhere explain to me the advantage of having a true rgb sensor means. as I feel like this maybe the most important thing? Also global or rolling?


Pretty awesome pictures, generated form equal numbers of red, green and blue pixels.

I think there’s a wonderful smoothness to the look of the camera and great subtlety and nuance.

Don’t think about 12k.

Think about amazing looking colour and skin tones....

That you can shoot as the same size sensor in 4K RAW if you’re allergic to double digit resolution.

JB

I think I'll bite my tongue about the resolution. I'm looking at the colors and dynamic range. They claim 14, but it's looking a bit better than the G2. What are your thoughts on the Dynamic Range?
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Re: Ursa Mini Pro 12K is here

PostThu Jul 16, 2020 6:44 pm

John Brawley wrote:
Michael Sandiford wrote:Can someone either from BM or elsewhere explain to me the advantage of having a true rgb sensor means. as I feel like this maybe the most important thing? Also global or rolling?


Pretty awesome pictures, generated form equal numbers of red, green and blue pixels.

I think there’s a wonderful smoothness to the look of the camera and great subtlety and nuance.

Don’t think about 12k.

Think about amazing looking colour and skin tones....

That you can shoot as the same size sensor in 4K RAW if you’re allergic to double digit resolution.

JB

Yeah I've ignored12k bit, its headline grabbing but as with working with other cameras its rare I shoot at full pelt. That's why I'm interested in the true 4:4:4. Do we have any info on the noise DB or gain? I'll have a play with the footage tonight at some point.
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Re: Ursa Mini Pro 12K is here

PostThu Jul 16, 2020 6:45 pm

Looks to be Dual ISO, at least in the downloadable BRAW files??

CRAZY amount of latitude in the color.
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Re: Ursa Mini Pro 12K is here

PostThu Jul 16, 2020 6:56 pm

This is overkill and sounds like BM is just trying to play the game of Who Has Bigger Male Parts.

I would never want 12k. Higher frame rates? Sure. But this doesn't even address anything people are really wanting or asking for (More DR etc)

Again...this is an ego move for BM. Not a move for the consumers.
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Re: Ursa Mini Pro 12K is here

PostThu Jul 16, 2020 7:06 pm

JoshMallett wrote:This is overkill and sounds like BM is just trying to play the game of Who Has Bigger Male Parts.

I would never want 12k. Higher frame rates? Sure. But this doesn't even address anything people are really wanting or asking for (More DR etc)

Again...this is an ego move for BM. Not a move for the consumers.


Ahh... you're missing the point. We now have a proprietary sensor. Use the camera as an 8K camera if you like, or even 6k or 4k with no compromise. There are other things that we don't understand yet. Everyone is just focusing on 12k... Don't use the 12k then, you still get full sensor read out. Who knows what else this sensor can do... This is the road to Arri territory with our very own sensor.
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Re: Ursa Mini Pro 12K is here

PostThu Jul 16, 2020 7:15 pm

JoshMallett wrote:This is overkill and sounds like BM is just trying to play the game of Who Has Bigger Male Parts.

I would never want 12k. Higher frame rates? Sure. But this doesn't even address anything people are really wanting or asking for (More DR etc)

Again...this is an ego move for BM. Not a move for the consumers.

Don't be ridiculous, there is an audience for this - you just aren't part of it.
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Re: Ursa Mini Pro 12K is here

PostThu Jul 16, 2020 7:33 pm

JoshMallett wrote:This is overkill and sounds like BM is just trying to play the game of Who Has Bigger Male Parts.

I would never want 12k. Higher frame rates? Sure. But this doesn't even address anything people are really wanting or asking for (More DR etc)

Again...this is an ego move for BM. Not a move for the consumers.

It’s an incredible achievement. If you don’t want the higher resolution and want more frame rates you can scale down (and the benefits along with it).
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Re: Ursa Mini Pro 12K is here

PostThu Jul 16, 2020 7:35 pm

Jack Fairley wrote:
JoshMallett wrote:This is overkill and sounds like BM is just trying to play the game of Who Has Bigger Male Parts.

I would never want 12k. Higher frame rates? Sure. But this doesn't even address anything people are really wanting or asking for (More DR etc)

Again...this is an ego move for BM. Not a move for the consumers.

Don't be ridiculous, there is an audience for this - you just aren't part of it.


I hope it is in Arri territory. I'm sure there's more science in the sensor that we don't know quite yet.

I've come across convo's where people don't acknowledge BM cameras in the same league as RED or Arri yet (whereas a lot of us have been for a few years now.) If this can get us there...I'm all for it....
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Re: Ursa Mini Pro 12K is here

PostThu Jul 16, 2020 7:46 pm

Brad Hurley wrote:
Wayne Steven wrote:Well, there's something I don't really need compared to an 4k/8k Micro.
No 8k camera or new micro?


Grant did say at the outset that the Ursa Mini serves as a test platform for their new technologies. This implies that tech developed for the Ursa will trickle down to other new models over time.


We have a very outdated micro now, and 8k pocket would be more useful to me.

Is this RGB sensor foveon X3 style, or pattern colour mask?
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Re: Ursa Mini Pro 12K is here

PostThu Jul 16, 2020 8:02 pm

Does resolve 16.2.4 supports this camera or new update is expected?
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Re: Ursa Mini Pro 12K is here

PostThu Jul 16, 2020 8:07 pm

Que Thompson wrote:
JoshMallett wrote:This is overkill and sounds like BM is just trying to play the game of Who Has Bigger Male Parts.

I would never want 12k. Higher frame rates? Sure. But this doesn't even address anything people are really wanting or asking for (More DR etc)

Again...this is an ego move for BM. Not a move for the consumers.


Ahh... you're missing the point. We now have a proprietary sensor. Use the camera as an 8K camera if you like, or even 6k or 4k with no compromise. There are other things that we don't understand yet. Everyone is just focusing on 12k... Don't use the 12k then, you still get full sensor read out. Who knows what else this sensor can do... This is the road to Arri territory with our very own sensor.


This is what’s most important here. The 12K is a headline grabber for sure, but that’s a byproduct of trying to make a better sensor and moving away from traditional Bayer.

The other important acknowledgement is the tight integration with Blackmagic RAW.

They were both started at the same time because this sensor is designed around this codec. That’s why we can have the in-camera scaling and such incredible compression efficiency.

THIS is the real reason BMD went away from cDNG. You can’t do this with cDNG. Or even ProRes.

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Re: Ursa Mini Pro 12K is here

PostThu Jul 16, 2020 8:08 pm

JoshMallett wrote:

I hope it is in Arri territory. I'm sure there's more science in the sensor that we don't know quite yet.

I've come across convo's where people don't acknowledge BM cameras in the same league as RED or Arri yet (whereas a lot of us have been for a few years now.) If this can get us there...I'm all for it....


I’d argue we’re there already with the G2, or close enough that the differences are very small.

This is something else though. It’s hard to compare.

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Re: Ursa Mini Pro 12K is here

PostThu Jul 16, 2020 8:09 pm

Adam Langdon wrote:Looks to be Dual ISO, at least in the downloadable BRAW files??

CRAZY amount of latitude in the color.
I can't wait for Gen 5 to come to my Ursa Mini Pro!


Not dual.

ISO 800 native.

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Re: Ursa Mini Pro 12K is here

PostThu Jul 16, 2020 8:10 pm

JoshMallett wrote:But this doesn't even address anything people are really wanting or asking for (More DR etc)


This does give you more dynamic range. Scaling high resolution footage down increases DR because it buries noise. At 12K, the UMP 12K has 14 stops of DR thus shooting 12K and resizing in post or shooting full-frame 8K/4K in-camera would give you more DR.

Plus as they mentioned, a 12K sensor would allow you to shoot 4K without demosaicing. That reduces provides antialiasing and gets you the sharpest 4K image you can get. 4K on this camera would be particularly amazing for VFX compositing since the sub-pixel composition of the source footage would be the same as the computer generated material.

You could also do noise reduction on the 12K footage then resize to 4K to bury any remaining noise to get extremely clean, high-detail 4K images.

John Brawley wrote:Not dual.

ISO 800 native.

JB


So does the ISO work the exact same way as the UMP or does it have some analog gain settings as well?
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Re: Ursa Mini Pro 12K is here

PostThu Jul 16, 2020 8:16 pm

Mark Grgurev wrote:
JoshMallett wrote:But this doesn't even address anything people are really wanting or asking for (More DR etc)


This does give you more dynamic range. Scaling high resolution footage down increases DR because it buries noise. At 12K, the UMP 12K has 14 stops of DR thus shooting 12K and resizing in post or shooting full-frame 8K/4K in-camera would give you more DR.

Plus as they mentioned, a 12K sensor would allow you to shoot 4K without demosaicing. That reduces provides antialiasing and gets you the sharpest 4K image you can get. 4K on this camera would be particularly amazing for VFX compositing since the sub-pixel composition of the source footage would be the same as the computer generated material.

You could also do noise reduction on the 12K footage then resize to 4K to bury any remaining noise to get extremely clean, high-detail 4K images.


Really happy to see some people picking up on what this all means! And we haven't even begun the conversations on Color Resolution etc. It's trippy as hell, we've never seen anything like it. Like JB says, hard to compare.
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Re: Ursa Mini Pro 12K is here

PostThu Jul 16, 2020 8:17 pm

Mark Grgurev wrote:
John Brawley wrote:Not dual.

ISO 800 native.

JB


So does the ISO work the exact same way as the UMP or does it have some analog gain settings as well?


Same as a G2. No analog in sensor gain.

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Re: Ursa Mini Pro 12K is here

PostThu Jul 16, 2020 8:22 pm

The best lenses we have today can resolve 12k, but only at around f/4, which is a little too stopped down for narrative cinematography. Wide open they will be hit by softness and aberrations and at f/8 onwards, with diffraction. That's the problem with huge resolutions and small-ish sensors.

Honestly, I don't think anyone asked for 12k. This is the first big blunder from Blackmagic strategically-wise in my opinion. The price is great, but honestly, no one needs 12k right now. Maybe in 8-10 years from now, but not yet. As for re-framing, the main argument of people who shoot high res, we can do that from 6k already, to deliver 4k or 1080p. What people wanted from Ursa was full frame. Hollywood has moved to full frame sensors, so that was what needed matching. 8k would have been acceptable too (even if 6k is enough), but 12k in a super-35 sensor doesn't sound interesting to me at all, sorry.
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Re: Ursa Mini Pro 12K is here

PostThu Jul 16, 2020 8:23 pm

Wayne Steven wrote:
Brad Hurley wrote:Is this RGB sensor foveon X3 style, or pattern colour mask?

Mr. Petty didn't say definitively, but I infer from what he did say, and from the results, that it is still a pattern of individual R, G and B filtered cells...just a lot more of them in equal distribution instead of a bayer pattern.
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Re: Ursa Mini Pro 12K is here

PostThu Jul 16, 2020 8:25 pm

Eugenia Loli wrote:The best lenses we have today can resolve 12k, but only at around f/4, which is a little too stopped down for narrative cinematography. Wide open they will be hit by softness and aberrations and at f/8 onwards, with diffraction. That's the problem with huge resolutions and small-ish sensors.

Honestly, I don't think anyone asked for 12k. This is the first big blunder from Blackmagic strategically-wise in my opinion. The price is great, but honestly, no one needs 12k right now. Maybe in 8-10 years from now, but not yet. As for re-framing, the main argument of people who shoot high res, we can do that from 6k already, to deliver 4k or 1080p. What people wanted from Ursa was full frame. Hollywood has moved to full frame sensors, so that was what needed matching. 8k would have been acceptable too (even if 6k is enough), but 12k in a super-35 sensor doesn't sound interesting to me at all, sorry.

I can't argue with missing the industry's trend towards full-frame, but I do think you're missing the point on the 12K sensor. The lens resolution isn't so important, what's important is how all of those RGB pixels can be supersampled to yield a more natural image, not just a sharper image.
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Re: Ursa Mini Pro 12K is here

PostThu Jul 16, 2020 8:29 pm

Wow. Though for cinema it's definitely overkill, this is impressive... With 60fps in 12K, that's 80 megapixel stills... Drop the shutter angle to 90 degrees and that's plenty of speed for pulling clean stills in most situations...

... Capturing 80 megapixels at 60fps is amazing.

There are plenty of lenses that can resolve that high a resolution stopped down to f/8, professional grade lenses can stop down further.

Saying that f/4 is too stopped down for cinema is very closed minded. There are lots of reasons for shooting with deep focus on cinema. It's nice having the choice.



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Re: Ursa Mini Pro 12K is here

PostThu Jul 16, 2020 8:29 pm

Eugenia Loli wrote:The best lenses we have today can resolve 12k, but only at around f/4, which is a little too stopped down for narrative cinematography. Wide open they will be hit by softness and aberrations and at f/8 onwards, with diffraction. That's the problem with huge resolutions and small-ish sensors.

Honestly, I don't think anyone asked for 12k. This is the first big blunder from Blackmagic strategically-wise in my opinion. The price is great, but honestly, no one needs 12k right now.


This isn't really about 12K, it's about great 4K without the issues that demosaicing brings with it. This is a camera that won't need anti-aliasing filters.

There was literally a whole part of the announcement where an old broadcast camera 3-sensor + prism set up was shown to explain how broadcast cameras used to get color without needing to demosaic. Back when people shot standard def, demosaicing a 640x480 sensor would have produced extremely noticeable artifacts. Broadcast and prosumer cameras used three sensors without CFA and attached them to a prism that separated incoming light from the lens onto each sensor. Consumer cameras took a different approach. They would use 1.3MP sensors with CFAs and just downsample to SD. This is really no different from what those consumer SD cameras did.

It just feels weird now because digital still cameras always used large high resolution sensors with CFAs and debayering because those artifacts are less apparent at higher resolutions. Then when they eventually started shooting video, that was the only way people would think of using cameras.

For a more modern example of someone using this approach in a cinema camera, just look at the C300. It has a 4K sensor with a bayer pattern but it just used it to shoot good 1080p.
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Re: Ursa Mini Pro 12K is here

PostThu Jul 16, 2020 8:33 pm

Pretend for a second it’s not 12K.

What if it’s a new sensor that creates images in a way that hasn’t been done before, that should lead to almost no aliasing or moire and makes absolutely beautiful colour images.

It’s a slight upgrade on the price of the G2, but being a custom and new sensor you have to pay a bit more, but the upside is you get the next version of a G2 but with a whole new generation of even better colour science.

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Re: Ursa Mini Pro 12K is here

PostThu Jul 16, 2020 8:34 pm

[quote="Eugenia Loli"]The best lenses we have today can resolve 12k, but only at around f/4, which is a little too stopped down for narrative cinematography. Wide open they will be hit by softness and aberrations and at f/8 onwards, with diffraction. That's the problem with huge resolutions and small-ish sensors.

Honestly, I don't think anyone asked for 12k. This is the first big blunder from Blackmagic strategically-wise in my opinion. The price is great, but honestly, no one needs 12k right now. Maybe in 8-10 years from now, but not yet. As for re-framing, the main argument of people who shoot high res, we can do that from 6k already, to deliver 4k or 1080p. What people wanted from Ursa was full frame. Hollywood has moved to full frame sensors, so that was what needed matching. 8k would have been acceptable too (even if 6k is enough), but 12k in a super-35 sensor doesn't sound interesting to me at all, sorry.[/

Its called a 12k camera but it makes a great 8, 6 and 4 camera. probably better or as good as anything out there. So you can buy and use all its capacity in lower resolution. It will be like buying 4 cameras.
I think FF is a dslr thing that somene wants to be transplany into the film world, Maybe to sell more expensive lenses. I dont think it brings anything to the film world. But if it suits you I hope the bring a FF version out.


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Re: Ursa Mini Pro 12K is here

PostThu Jul 16, 2020 8:38 pm

This isn't really about 12K, it's about great 4K without the issues that demosaicing brings with it. This is a camera that won't need anti-aliasing filters.


Sorry, but you're trying to support an argument that can be supported differently. If removing the need for demosaicing was the case you see, they could have used the same Sony sensor as the one found on the Fuji GFX-100. That 102 MP sensor has EXACTLY 9 pixels per 1 4k pixel, which has no aliasing problems. It was designed for that reason. That sensor is also medium format, so that would even fix the problem of the small sensor and give RED and Arri a run for its money. Two birds with 1 stone.

But no. They simply wanted 12k, to say that they got 12k.
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Re: Ursa Mini Pro 12K is here

PostThu Jul 16, 2020 8:42 pm

The sensor has been in development for 3 years.

These aren’t like pixels you see in any other camera. It’s hard to compare them.


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Re: Ursa Mini Pro 12K is here

PostThu Jul 16, 2020 8:45 pm

Eugenia Loli wrote:
This isn't really about 12K, it's about great 4K without the issues that demosaicing brings with it. This is a camera that won't need anti-aliasing filters.


Sorry, but you're trying to support an argument that can be supported differently. If removing the need for demosaicing was the case you see, they could have used the same Sony sensor as the one found on the Fuji GFX-100. That 102 MP sensor has EXACTLY 9 pixels per 1 4k pixel, which has no aliasing problems. It was designed for that reason. That sensor is also medium format, so that would even fix the problem of the small sensor and give RED and Arri a run for its money. Two birds with 1 stone.

But no. They simply wanted 12k, to say that they got 12k.


You got some good points but I beg to differ. This camera will be awesoms for green screen and compositing. This camera is BMD entry into a new market. We should be happy for that. BMD has always been a disrupter. Im sure there will be other announcements for the rest of the crowd.


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Re: Ursa Mini Pro 12K is here

PostThu Jul 16, 2020 8:50 pm

Eugenia Loli wrote:Sorry, but you're trying to support an argument that can be supported differently. If removing the need for demosaicing was the case you see, they could have used the same Sony sensor as the one found on the Fuji GFX-100. That 102 MP sensor has EXACTLY 9 pixels per 1 4k pixel, which has no aliasing problems. It was designed for that reason. That sensor is also medium format, so that would even fix the problem of the small sensor and give RED and Arri a run for its money. Two birds with 1 stone.

But no. They simply wanted 12k, to say that they got 12k.


Nope. You're completely misunderstanding what the problem is. 102MP would be overkill for perfect 4K because you don't need 9 pixels per 4K pixel, you only need one per color channel for every 4K pixel. They're using the minimum amount of pixels that they'd need to get non-mosaiced 4K. That's why the resolution (12288x6480) is what it is.

12,288 / 3 = 4096
6,480 / 3 = 2160

And what do we call 4096x2160? That's right, 4K DCI.

Fuji went as I has they did because they're making still camera where the rule is the more pixels the better and sensor readout speed is irrelevant. BMD is making a digital cinema camera where they need to strike a balance between resolution and sensor readout speed,
Last edited by Mark Grgurev on Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Ursa Mini Pro 12K is here

PostThu Jul 16, 2020 8:52 pm

Eugenia Loli wrote:
This isn't really about 12K, it's about great 4K without the issues that demosaicing brings with it. This is a camera that won't need anti-aliasing filters.


Sorry, but you're trying to support an argument that can be supported differently. If removing the need for demosaicing was the case you see, they could have used the same Sony sensor as the one found on the Fuji GFX-100. That 102 MP sensor has EXACTLY 9 pixels per 1 4k pixel, which has no aliasing problems. It was designed for that reason. That sensor is also medium format, so that would even fix the problem of the small sensor and give RED and Arri a run for its money. Two birds with 1 stone.

But no. They simply wanted 12k, to say that they got 12k.


This is the flagship. Until who knows when. All they'll do is update firmware.

A 12K sensor that is also 8K, 6K, and 4K with full sensor readout. They could use the same sensor for all the cameras and limit resolution, framerates, or whatever else they come up with in the future...

The sensor is the achievement. Saying 12K is a headline, like JB said, but you don't have to use 12K.
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Re: Ursa Mini Pro 12K is here

PostThu Jul 16, 2020 9:22 pm

Yep, it us also an excellent 8K, 6K, and 4K Camera. It is also a grand S16 4K camera, and it comes with the PL mount. What us not to like.
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Re: Ursa Mini Pro 12K is here

PostThu Jul 16, 2020 9:30 pm

Educate me. If you had 2 lenses, one with an EF mount and one with a PL mount, would the final quality be exactly the same?
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Re: Ursa Mini Pro 12K is here

PostThu Jul 16, 2020 9:37 pm

Que Thompson wrote:
Eugenia Loli wrote:
This isn't really about 12K, it's about great 4K without the issues that demosaicing brings with it. This is a camera that won't need anti-aliasing filters.


Sorry, but you're trying to support an argument that can be supported differently. If removing the need for demosaicing was the case you see, they could have used the same Sony sensor as the one found on the Fuji GFX-100. That 102 MP sensor has EXACTLY 9 pixels per 1 4k pixel, which has no aliasing problems. It was designed for that reason. That sensor is also medium format, so that would even fix the problem of the small sensor and give RED and Arri a run for its money. Two birds with 1 stone.

But no. They simply wanted 12k, to say that they got 12k.


This is the flagship. Until who knows when. All they'll do is update firmware.

A 12K sensor that is also 8K, 6K, and 4K with full sensor readout. They could use the same sensor for all the cameras and limit resolution, framerates, or whatever else they come up with in the future...

The sensor is the achievement. Saying 12K is a headline, like JB said, but you don't have to use 12K.

Yes. You need a 4K deliverable? Here it is. 8K? Not a problem. And that's just one of the possibilities not including organic color and detail.
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Re: Ursa Mini Pro 12K is here

PostThu Jul 16, 2020 9:39 pm

jallen0 wrote:Educate me. If you had 2 lenses, one with an EF mount and one with a PL mount, would the final quality be exactly the same?


Yes, but most PL lenses have characteristics to them. They are usually higher quality glass. It comes down to personal preference.

I hear once you go PL, you'll never go retail. ;) JK, I made that up...

I would say... Maybe, but probably not. XEEN has EF and PL mounts for the same glass, so in that case I would say no. However, if you put an Angenieux against a Rokinon, I'd say yes.

I don't know.
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Re: Ursa Mini Pro 12K is here

PostThu Jul 16, 2020 9:42 pm

jallen0 wrote:Educate me. If you had 2 lenses, one with an EF mount and one with a PL mount, would the final quality be exactly the same?


It depends on the lenses that are used. The mount won’t affect the imaging performance by itself, but EF mount is a notoriously poor choice for moving images, because the lenses tend to rotate in the mount.

PL stands for Positive Lock.


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Re: Ursa Mini Pro 12K is here

PostThu Jul 16, 2020 9:44 pm

Mark Grgurev wrote:
This isn't really about 12K, it's about great 4K without the issues that demosaicing brings with it. This is a camera that won't need anti-aliasing filters.


Black Magic doesn't compromise on pixels in order to get more of them into a sensor, so the reality is that with a talented DP at the helm, this beast will be able to produce deliverable but wholly unnecessary 12K footage.

That said, the same people who love using Reds for their resolution for detailed compositing will probably be quite pleased with this.

It will also make a great tool for nature photography, and potentially for capturing footage for virtual environments.


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Re: Ursa Mini Pro 12K is here

PostThu Jul 16, 2020 9:47 pm

jallen0 wrote:Educate me. If you had 2 lenses, one with an EF mount and one with a PL mount, would the final quality be exactly the same?
If you're comparing the same lens with different mounts, then yes. The mount doesn't affect the image quality in any way. Speed boosters have optics in them that make them different beasts.

There are other factors like play in the mount that can make focusing with motors a little less precise, but that's about it.

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Re: Ursa Mini Pro 12K is here

PostThu Jul 16, 2020 9:48 pm

jallen0 wrote:Educate me. If you had 2 lenses, one with an EF mount and one with a PL mount, would the final quality be exactly the same?

Normally not, depends on the specific lenses. I do not use EF mount lenses due to the mount issues.
That said, most native PL mount lenses are going to be cinema/video camera specific lenses, and are better built, higher resolution, soother working, manual lenses (Zeiss, Cooke, Angenieux, etc). PL mount is precise, quick changing, and the lens is locked in place. No lens to camera body mount movement.

Most EF lenses were built for still photography (Canon, Sigma, etc), but their are some Locking EF lenses built for video/cinema photography. Their are some exceptions, like SLR Magic APOs, which are EF/PL mount, Tokina Cine PLs (also available in EF Mount), etc. The issue with EF Mount is its imprecise, Louise fit with lenses, that allow play between the lens and camera mount. Not an issue in still photos, but in video shooting it is, making zooming or focus pulling difficult, and you image “jumps” when shifting focus, because the lens moves slightly.

But given the choice, I go with PL over EF or MFT any day. I will not buy a EF Mount lens or EF Mount Camera, if it can not be converted (not adapted) to PL.
Edit, I was writing this while previous posts were made
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Re: Ursa Mini Pro 12K is here

PostThu Jul 16, 2020 10:09 pm

This camera to me is really disappointing. In no way do I need 12k or even 8k. I was hoping for 6k with more features at the same price point. I mean, I had no idea 12k even existed! I'm still hopeful they'll release a lower res model at the $6k price point. I'd much rather have pre-roll and some other features than a ridiculous amount of pixels.
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