What camera do you want to buy from BM next?

The place for questions about shooting with Blackmagic Cameras.
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Greg Lee

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Re: What camera do you want to buy from BM next?

PostSun Nov 22, 2020 9:54 pm

The return of the Fairchild sensor to the pocket, with the Arri-style dual-gain tech.

Blackmagic will never be able to compete with the big boys on sensor stabilization or autofocus technologies. The only way BM can stand out is with distinctively amazing image quality, which will have to be done with a custom sensor. Otherwise it’ll just be a GH5s/XT3... but without all the bells and whistles.

I haven’t shot on my BMPCC4K for a year. I’m back using the Micro, because the look gets better reactions from viewers. Heck, I’m even looking to buy the problematic original BMPC4K, because the look is just so much more pleasing and distinctive than the Sony sensors, even with terrible dynamic range and nonexistent lowlight.
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LoicPIF

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Re: What camera do you want to buy from BM next?

PostMon Nov 23, 2020 11:32 am

I agree.
Intensive user and in love with the BMPCC then the BMMCC (for documentaries and fiction), I cannot switch to the BMPCC4K. I got m4/3 and S16 optics. What is missing is a gain of the sensor in resolution (2.8K would be perfect) and a better sensitivity. The Ursa mini Pro eco-system is oversized for my financial capacity and would require transforming all my equipment fleet. So I prefer to keep my micro.

I expect an evolution of the BMMCC with the new Fairchild sensor, as well as a better possibility to navigate in the menus and change settings easily. Professional connectors (SDI and XLR) rather than HDMI and Jack would be appreciated. For me, the BMMCC form factor is the best. More practical to use than the Pocket 4K. The new camera could be slightly larger but its cubic shape is ideal. If BlackMagic Design could achieve a BMMCC v2 with the Fairchild MST4323 (?) Sensor in the body of a Z Cam camera and color science from BMD. And an EVF adapted for the BMMCC...

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John Brawley

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Re: What camera do you want to buy from BM next?

PostTue Nov 24, 2020 6:02 am

Greg Lee wrote:The return of the Fairchild sensor to the pocket, with the Arri-style dual-gain tech.


The 4.6K G2 is a current camera, still sold.

The Micro cinema camera is also a dual gain sensor (though it is getting old)

But it's really hard to work with them.

That sensor family has to also be developed and BMD aren't in full control of where that sensor technology is going. I can also tell you, stretching the bounds of my NDA, that's it's a huge pain in the arse to make work in actual reality. Many many hoops that the sensors in the current pocket don't require.

That sensor is available to anyone else to use (though BMD make their own custom CFA for it). Notice that no one else actually has though ?

If you do your detective work, those with long memories will recall one manufacturer who announced a camera that had a very very similar spec to what the Fairchild dual gain sensors offer but it never came to market....

JB
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Kim Janson

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Re: What camera do you want to buy from BM next?

PostTue Nov 24, 2020 6:21 am

"The Micro cinema camera is also a dual gain sensor (though it is getting old)

But it's really hard to work with them"

?

The VA even works as backup recorder. I just hope it would be 2.7k and better sensitivity.
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John Brawley

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Re: What camera do you want to buy from BM next?

PostTue Nov 24, 2020 6:28 am

Kim Janson wrote:"The Micro cinema camera is also a dual gain sensor (though it is getting old)

But it's really hard to work with them"

?

The VA even works as backup recorder. I just hope it would be 2.7k and better sensitivity.



The sensor Kim. Calibrating and getting the most out of the sensor.

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Ryan Earl

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Re: What camera do you want to buy from BM next?

PostFri Nov 27, 2020 12:22 pm

Greg Lee wrote:The return of the Fairchild sensor to the pocket, with the Arri-style dual-gain tech.

Blackmagic will never be able to compete with the big boys on sensor stabilization or autofocus technologies. The only way BM can stand out is with distinctively amazing image quality, which will have to be done with a custom sensor. Otherwise it’ll just be a GH5s/XT3... but without all the bells and whistles.

I haven’t shot on my BMPCC4K for a year. I’m back using the Micro, because the look gets better reactions from viewers. Heck, I’m even looking to buy the problematic original BMPC4K, because the look is just so much more pleasing and distinctive than the Sony sensors, even with terrible dynamic range and nonexistent lowlight.


I loved using the Production Camera 4K, though I do like the ergonomics of the new pockets. Putting EF lenses on the 6K for IS works well enough.

On the Pocket, I would like to see a dedicated "stills" firmware when pressing the "camera" button instead of taking a DNG still that I can't playback immediately. Even if it's BETA with limited shutter speed etc. If they produce a larger sensor or bring more megapixels to the pocket, it starts to make a lot more sense to take stills with it. I've been taking a lot of stills with the 6K already.
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Dmitry Shijan

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Re: What camera do you want to buy from BM next?

PostFri Nov 27, 2020 8:15 pm

Dual gain may be not an easiest way, but it is the only way that may provide desent increase in dinamic range and noise structure. Canon now start to use dual gain sensors and result looks really nice.
1. I wish BMD cameras being more consistent. Those endless experiments with different sensor manufacturers and technologies, different image quality and with different bugs (fpn, ir pollution, color casts, cross hatching, red channel clipping, noise/moire and scaling artifacts in 12k sensor) are very annoying.
2. Be like Arri - find final single but perfect quality 4k dual gain sensor with large pixels and with proper OLPF/IR glass. Use it for decades so people may predict what to expect. Improve unified full sized camera body (already done in Ursas) and additional unified micro camera body.
3. Fix and don't repeat mechanical mistakes like lens mount wobble, too flexible plastic body, blue sensor glass corrosion.
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lee4ever

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Re: What camera do you want to buy from BM next?

PostFri Nov 27, 2020 9:43 pm

I agree to.

In my opinion blackmagic design did everything right in the beginning. The older camera models (like original bmpcc, bmcc, bmmcc) are still very popular. I have read that some people prefer the older Blackmagic cameras because the IQ is more cinematic. I hope the next bag will be a new sensor with dual gain. The fairchild sensor was a good choice, but Sony, no thanks. Some compare pocket 4k and 6k to smartphones. Today I saw a video where pocket 6k is compared to iphone 12 max.

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John Brawley

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Re: What camera do you want to buy from BM next?

PostFri Nov 27, 2020 10:50 pm

Dmitry Shijan wrote:Dual gain may be not an easiest way, but it is the only way that may provide desent increase in dinamic range and noise structure. Canon now start to use dual gain sensors and result looks really nice.



BMD HAS DONE DUAL GAIN from their very first camera. They know what it takes.

I don't think it's the only way. BMD themselves showed that with the 12K using W pixels to extend DR. There's other ways you can design sensors to extend DR.

And as I mentioned, ask yourself why no-one else is using dual gain sensors from Fairchild. Z cam...? Kinefinity?

Cause they're freakin hard to dial in. No-one wants to do that work. BMD included.

Dmitry Shijan wrote:1. I wish BMD cameras being more consistent. Those endless experiments with different sensor manufacturers and technologies, different image quality and with different bugs (fpn, ir pollution, color casts, cross hatching, red channel clipping, noise/moire and scaling artifacts in 12k sensor) are very annoying.



I think they're consistently improving. Let's remember it's 8 years of dramatic improvements. Some of these issues are tied to the others you already complained about.

Dmitry Shijan wrote:2. Be like Arri - find final single but perfect quality 4k dual gain sensor with large pixels and with proper OLPF/IR glass. Use it for decades so people may predict what to expect. Improve unified full sized camera body (already done in Ursas) and additional unified micro camera body.


Arri got incredibly lucky with their sensor. No one else has had such longevity and it's now an Albatros. Why ?

Because the large pixels limits their resolution. The only way they can be 4K for Netflix is to force filmmakers to shoot LF.

If you want S35 in Arri it can't be done at 4K.

They're more than 2 years overdue for their next sensor release. They keep having issue with releasing it.

Because something has to give when you have such large pixels.


Dmitry Shijan wrote:3. Fix and don't repeat mechanical mistakes like lens mount wobble, too flexible plastic body, blue sensor glass corrosion.


I think if you're talking about the m4/3 cameras, it's hard to accomodate mechanical stuff when a price point is involved (and a defined standard you don’t control)

On PL cameras I've never had issues with the mounts.

JB
Last edited by John Brawley on Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Denny Smith

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Re: What camera do you want to buy from BM next?

PostFri Nov 27, 2020 11:07 pm

Same here John, the two BMD PL (and B4) mount cameras I have had were rock solid. It was the MFT mount cameras that had loose lens mount issues.
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timbutt2

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Re: What camera do you want to buy from BM next?

PostSat Nov 28, 2020 2:20 am

Yeah, I’m all for PL mount cameras. That’s definitely the best mount. Just wish we could get more lenses moving to having data connectors with /i Technology.

Honestly what I want to see is for more wireless control options and monitoring. I’d love for Blackmagic to make their own FIZ hand unit that works with a Wireless Video Assist for wirelessly controlling the camera and lens with motors that are powered by the camera and communicate with the camera. This also goes a bit with lens data as well. But overall I’d love for them to really take things to a new level with this.

Sensor tech wise I like what they’re doing with the 12K. But I also love the dual ISO of the Pocket cameras. So combine both for a triple ISO 12K sensor that has 15 stops dynamic range from ISO 50-800, 14 stops dynamic range from ISO 1000-3200, and 13 stops for beyond 3200 ISO. But I might just be smoking too much idealistic wishing beans that I got from Jack in exchange for a cow.


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Ian Henderson

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Re: What camera do you want to buy from BM next?

PostSat Nov 28, 2020 6:52 am

I’d personally love the 6K in a small box body with ND and Ursa swappable mount on front, and SDI and v-mount on the back. Would be close to perfect for our needs.
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Peter Selbie

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Re: What camera do you want to buy from BM next?

PostSat Nov 28, 2020 5:02 pm

It's clear most people are not interested in resolution hype.
The 13 stops or more DR !!
They do not want a digital look of C-MOS sensor, similar look like BMCC, BMPCC, BMMCC dual gain with slightly more resolution 4K, 6K max and a cubeform, these are the main wishes.

BMD it is now your turn !!!!
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