Blackmagic Forum

Hey guys,

I bought back my original bmpcc and I just wanted to make a video explaining why I decided to do this, in 2020.


I know it doesn’t really make sense financially or even for content, especially since I own the bmpcc6k.
And with newly announcement cameras like the Eos R5 it makes even less sense to get a camera like this.

Curious to know if you guys thought about buying the OG BMPCC again as well ?

Let me know if you have any questions.

Cheers,
Flo

Welcome back to the "dark" side.

Leon Benzakein wrote:Welcome back to the "dark" side.

Hahaha !!

Amazing to see the OG Pocket next to the 6K "Pocket"!
Steve

The BMPCC4k is my first BMD camera, but since I bought it, I've picked up 2 og BMPCCs and convinced a client to buy the 4.6k.

Unfortunately, both the BMPCCs I got had faults that hindered the joy I could get out of them. The final results were always gorgeous, but for me a camera is more than the image, it needs to be fun and inspiring to shoot with, and due to the issues mine had, that part was sadly lost.

That said, I did enjoy my brief time with them, and feel that wanting to pick them up after using the BMPCC4k is a testament. I'm still half looking out for a good deal, but I've also picked up a Canon EOSm. With Magic Lantern, and shooting in the 1080p mode, it gives me everything the BMPCC could give (raw wise, no ProRes), but with batter battery life, plenty of feature updates through ML and better preamps on the mic input.

Steve Holmlund wrote:Amazing to see the OG Pocket next to the 6K "Pocket"!
Steve

Haha I know right ?! Didn't realise the difference until I put them side by side.

I'm still shooting with mine so no need to buy back. About to take it on a trip for one of the projects I've been working on long-term. Love it. Need a monitor though...

Chris Leutger wrote:I'm still shooting with mine so no need to buy back. About to take it on a trip for one of the projects I've been working on long-term. Love it. Need a monitor though...

Haha you made the right decision to keep it.
Such a good travel cam. I took mine everywhere for years. The SmallHD Focus 5 is a great fit for it .

Or just a loupe.

I'm still wanting to buy one, especially if I have to buy a Gh6. I was pushing for a pocket like camera 14 or so years ago, but people went FPGA, which makes it difficult at that size, by the time the pocket came out, we should have had cheaper 4k options using ASIC. However, it means a lot to me, as a vision of what was. It's like, my less than $100 pocket camcorder was just a cinema camera without a manual lens mount (and settable exposure, shutter and color) and usb pass along uncompressed or two frame, raw recording, for less than $100, but was stopped from being done by regular manufacturers. That's what could have been done in 2006. But, the pocket maybe the closest a manufacturer ever came back then, first.

You never forget your first. I still have mine and can't seem to part with it.

Regrets... I have a few... One of them was selling my original Pocket. I agree with everything in your video. It’s an emotional connection to the camera that is oddly different from any of the other cameras I own. It has a very special look. There are short comings, moiré from time to time, having to add power, but the image is really special. The good news is I sold it to a young filmmaker at a very good price including a Speedbooster. She is loving it. So it continues to live and work in good hands.

Sentimentality aside, the 4K and the 6K have opened incredible creative opportunities as well. They play very nicely with my UM 4.6K, but I am finding more and more that for most projects the Pockets do everything I need in a nice small package.

I still have the BMCC and the BMCP 4K. Both have their own unique image personality as well.

In the end they are creative tools.

Like you, I also started making movies with the 5D. Loved the look, but when I discovered Davinci Resolve and all the flexibility of working with Raw files using BM cameras, I was hooked. BM has never stopped innovating and making great tools for the craft. They are heading in the right direction in my opinion and now with the new sensor in the 12K, BRaw, gen 5 color science and Resolve they have created a complete eco system where creatives can master the medium and deliver their best creative expression.

Is BM perfect? No such thing. Do I continue to be amazed at how well they understand what’s important to indie filmmakers like me? Absolutely!

In the meantime I enjoy all the stuff you have posted on Of Two Lands. Great inspiration. Keep up the good work.


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I recently revisited the battery situation. I always had the BM-branded versions (800mAh) and barely got 30 minutes out of them, if that.

Discovered that:
latest Nikon EN-EL20a (1110mAh - $50) gives me close to 1 hour.
Wasabi BRT ENEL20 (1200mAh - $10-ish or 2 for $25 with dual charger) provides about 45 minutes.

at room temperature.

My BM-branded versions had also swelled but as they were quite old I can't hold that against them.

I got two each of the Nikons and Watsons and am surprised at how much that has improved my enjoyment of using the camera. I know Florent showed the cheap battery plate solution in his video but I like the compactness of the original form factor.
Steve

EDIT: I meant Wasabi, NOT Watson. Still very cheap

Steve Holmlund wrote:I recently revisited the battery situation. I always had the BM-branded versions (800mAh) and barely got 30 minutes out of them, if that.
Discovered that:
latest Nikon EN-EL20a (1110mAh - $50) gives me close to 1 hour.

That's amazing, thanks for that! I was never able to get more than 15 minutes out of the original BMD or Wasabi batteries; I currently use the Tilta NP-F battery plate but having a longer-lasting internal battery would be a cleaner and simpler solution. I'll check these out.

Norman Lang wrote:Regrets... I have a few... One of them was selling my original Pocket. I agree with everything in your video. It’s an emotional connection to the camera that is oddly different from any of the other cameras I own. It has a very special look. There are short comings, moiré from time to time, having to add power, but the image is really special. The good news is I sold it to a young filmmaker at a very good price including a Speedbooster. She is loving it. So it continues to live and work in good hands.

Sentimentality aside, the 4K and the 6K have opened incredible creative opportunities as well. They play very nicely with my UM 4.6K, but I am finding more and more that for most projects the Pockets do everything I need in a nice small package.

I still have the BMCC and the BMCP 4K. Both have their own unique image personality as well.

In the end they are creative tools.

Like you, I also started making movies with the 5D. Loved the look, but when I discovered Davinci Resolve and all the flexibility of working with Raw files using BM cameras, I was hooked. BM has never stopped innovating and making great tools for the craft. They are heading in the right direction in my opinion and now with the new sensor in the 12K, BRaw, gen 5 color science and Resolve they have created a complete eco system where creatives can master the medium and deliver their best creative expression.

Is BM perfect? No such thing. Do I continue to be amazed at how well they understand what’s important to indie filmmakers like me? Absolutely!

In the meantime I enjoy all the stuff you have posted on Of Two Lands. Great inspiration. Keep up the good work.


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Thanks so much for the positive feedback, means a lot !!

There is definitely something special about the look and feel of the og bmpcc, but I do love my bmpcc6k for work. Both amazing cameras for sure.

Can't wait to see what they come up with next .
Cheers

Ah, the original Pocket. Such a great idea, a small broadcast/Cinema camera that did basic things. A great sensor, good choice of MFT lenses, a form factor dictated by size and use, which I never liked, but oh for a small EVF as well! And that sound was awful. I still use mine and have recently ordered some new batteries for it. The 'Pocket' monkier really suited it, unlike the 4K and 6K that followed. The video really does show the bloated siblings.

Personally I really hope that BMD go back to something as small and simple as the original.

Steve

I love the OG pocket.

So small.

Such a great look.

My favourite way to shoot with it is NAKED. Just the camera and a lens.

Bah to anyone that says the screen isn't useable.

https://flic.kr/p/ibSUXb

https://flic.kr/p/hbu7Mi

JB

If I shot naked, I would be too worried I'd accidentally shoot something


Which camera was photographing you there John?Excellent colour, and composition want good too, who ever it was.

Brad Hurley wrote:

Steve Holmlund wrote:I recently revisited the battery situation. I always had the BM-branded versions (800mAh) and barely got 30 minutes out of them, if that.
Discovered that:
latest Nikon EN-EL20a (1110mAh - $50) gives me close to 1 hour.

That's amazing, thanks for that! I was never able to get more than 15 minutes out of the original BMD or Wasabi batteries; I currently use the Tilta NP-F battery plate but having a longer-lasting internal battery would be a cleaner and simpler solution. I'll check these out.

Brad,
Sorry! I meant Wasabi 1200mAh, not the Watson. I corrected my post above. Maybe the Wasabi's I have are redesigned. I noticed them because of their 1200mAh rating.
Steve

Florent,

A man of two lands, let me post this for you.

Why I love the BMPCC.

This video.

Leon Benzakein wrote:Florent,

A man of two lands, let me post this for you.

Why I love the BMPCC.

This video.

Haha thanks man !! This was a fun trip .

Leon Benzakein wrote:Florent,

A man of two lands, let me post this for you.

Why I love the BMPCC.

This video.

But, can the 12k match this at full resolution, that us a question.

Thanks from me too Leon. If only it had fullhd 50fps, I could have had one back then.

Leon Benzakein wrote:Florent,

A man of two lands, let me post this for you.

Why I love the BMPCC.

This video.

Thanks, that looks great. Love it. Funny, I see people posting videos with the P2K all the time on reddit and they have an intangible something that overcomes whatever faults they may have.

Steve Holmlund wrote:Amazing to see the OG Pocket next to the 6K "Pocket"!
Steve

Only one of them is a true "pocket" camera!

Remember the good old days?
Ah, good times!

Came across this recently.
How the world was innocent.

Leon Benzakein wrote:Remember the good old days?
Ah, good times!

Came across this recently.
How the world was innocent.

Haha, this is great !!

Hello, the original bmpcc is my first and only camera. I started shooting in Prores first, but I recently started using CDNG. I do not wish to sound like a broken record by saying that I am in love with the image, but I am. Can anyone explain to me why the image stands up and side by side with the 4k variant? What is the secret sauce?

It may be due in large part to the two sensors being from different manufacturers. Not sure but the BMCC and the BMPCC had a certain richness or depth to the colour where some clips could be outstandingly ‘cinematic.’ Sure there’s differences in the Colour Science from then to now, but it seems to me there was some quality difference in the sensors’ response that shows in the final images. The photosite well is larger at 6.5 microns and that may help the result look better within the camera’s limits. Certainly having a photosite at 8 microns hasn’t hurt the ARRI cameras.

virgil21 wrote:Hello, the original bmpcc is my first and only camera. I started shooting in Prores first, but I recently started using CDNG. I do not wish to sound like a broken record by saying that I am in love with the image, but I am. Can anyone explain to me why the image stands up and side by side with the 4k variant? What is the secret sauce?

The sensor of the original Pocket has dual gain and a certain nice color science (similar to arri sensor). Blackmagic Design should have kept the fairchild sensors instead of switching to sony. It's a big mistake Blackmagic design made and that's not just my opinion. see an example https://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/52 ... sony-look/ there are always those who say the same thing.
Unfortunately there are problems with moiré. I am still waiting for a rawlite olpf. I can only recommend that. The image will always look better with it.

lee4ever wrote:The sensor of the original Pocket has dual gain and a certain nice color science (similar to arri sensor). Blackmagic Design should have kept the fairchild sensors instead of switching to sony. It's a big mistake Blackmagic design made and that's not just my opinion. see an example https://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/52 ... sony-look/

Most of what is written in that thread is a misunderstanding of how digital imaging works. The default look of a camera is just a set of manufacturer choices about color processing that can be totally changed in post, not some inherent quality of the sensor itself. Within the noise and dynamic range limits of the sensor plus the limits of the codec, as long as the images are properly exposed, the look of what you see on screen is down to the choices made and skill employed in post processing.
https://www.yedlin.net/OnColorScience/

Jamie LeJeune wrote: The default look of a camera is just a set of manufacturer choices about color processing that can be totally changed in post, not some inherent quality of the sensor itself.

I'm not sure I'd agree with that.

For starters there's a LOT that can be customised in the sensor package itself. You can see this from the fact that some sensor families get used in a lot of different brand cameras and yet yield different results.

Not only that but other customisations like the CFA itself, which is literally coloured filters. These can be changed, altered, having different values. This will GREATLY affect the end result. Many people that claim to LOVE the CCD Look, probably really just love the Kodak specified CFA that was on a lot of those CCD sensors used in earlier cinema cameras.

Then there's sensors like the dual gain sensor of the BMD camera. That is two seperate images that have to be combined. Those images have overlapping sensitivity so you don't just mush them together and hope for the best. They spend a lot of time finessing the way the images are sandwiched together so you the end user can't SEE those transitions in the image from high going to low gain.

One of the reasons they designed their own sensor was that I know that the dual gain sensors in particular took a HUGE amount of time to dial in for this very reason. Every new iteration they'd have to start again and it takes a lot of time and resources.

JB

That’s all great info. Thank you JB. I don’t mean to diminish the hard work BMD does to get the most out of the hardware.
I spend a ton of my time on color jobs matching cameras of totally different makes + models, and it seems to me that what people in that thread were stating as the “look” of particular camera brands is more about the manufacturer default post processing, rather than inherent attributes of the hardware itself. I didn’t mean to imply that the hardware and its tuning was all the same though.

raw or more latitude in colors, doesn't seem to be everything. Because you can't replace the sensel and dual gain with it. I think arri's guiding principle; better sensel with higher quality rather than more sensel is in this case something that also applies to fairchild?

I don't know. I really read about it a lot. So the first cameras from Blackmagic have something that our eyes, more beautiful, better or more cinematic perceive. It also can not be imagination, because the claim comes from different sources, from people who do not know each other, write or say the same thing. Yesterday I discovered this: https://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/35 ... l-matters/

I think if blackmagic would release a new camera with a fairchild sensor, the interest would be very very big

I heard that the Fairchild sensors in the BMCC and original BMPCC has been discontinued.

I received my rawlite OLPF today and the first tests are very good You will be thrilled! Hans Hijmering has done a great job there (by the way, a very nice correct guy ). I can recommend rawlite to everyone. It costs a little, but be sure, your image will always be better. You will also notice a very effective IR cut when using ND and in tungsten light.

lee4ever wrote:I received my rawlite OLPF today and the first tests are very good :) You will be thrilled! Hans Hijmering has done a great job there (by the way, a very nice correct guy :) ). I can recommend rawlite to everyone. It costs a little, but be sure, your image will always be better. You will also notice a very effective IR cut when using ND and in tungsten light.

yes, hans do a very good job

Hello everyone,

The original BMPCC is the only camera I would ever personally own. However, my question is less related to the camera image than using modern-day external batteries with the camera. Unfortunately, I do not know enough about electronics. I would like to know what modern battery I will be able to use with my camera without the fear of breaking my camera.

A suggestion to those who wish to purchase this:

The Micro is essentially an upgrade to the OG BMPCC in every way. Same sensor, but upgraded electronics that allow for 60fps, lower rolling shutter (13ms vs 18ms), active cooling, better battery life, and a full-sized HDMI port. There's a few that claim the color looks better than the Pocket as well, myself included.

The ergonomics is different; OG Pocket is for handheld, but for rigging the Micro is infinitely better.

Florent Piovesan wrote:I bought back my original bmpcc and I just wanted to make a video explaining why I decided to do this, in 2020.

A wonderful video, Florent. Yes, we create an emotional connection to our formative or favourite cameras, in my case, since I am so much older than you, a Beaulieu 4000ZMII and much later a JVC HD101. It's silly really isn't it? But it's not a materialist thing, just a very strong attachment to the tools that enabled that dream. I still have both those cams and although the new Ursa Broadcast G2 is a world away from the JVC (haven't shot Super 8 in years), it also has a grainy 16mm look, to me, and I still really like it's image.

The fact that you bought the very camera you had and sold is truly a sign my friend (there are some cars I dream about buying back ha). Blackmagic enabled so many of us to take the means of production into our own hands and I do believe Grant Petty has said as much. Very nice footage still from that little marvel. All the best.

Jamie LeJeune wrote:

lee4ever wrote:The sensor of the original Pocket has dual gain and a certain nice color science (similar to arri sensor). Blackmagic Design should have kept the fairchild sensors instead of switching to sony. It's a big mistake Blackmagic design made and that's not just my opinion. see an example https://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/52 ... sony-look/

Most of what is written in that thread is a misunderstanding of how digital imaging works. The default look of a camera is just a set of manufacturer choices about color processing that can be totally changed in post, not some inherent quality of the sensor itself. Within the noise and dynamic range limits of the sensor plus the limits of the codec, as long as the images are properly exposed, the look of what you see on screen is down to the choices made and skill employed in post processing.
https://www.yedlin.net/OnColorScience/

This doesn't really change the overall concept you're explaining here, but one detail worth adding is that there is in general at least one step that the manufacturer does in terms of colour that for most cameras you cannot change - the mapping from sensor RGB (the sensors native response) to XYZ (or the output space). This is a pretty important step as you are converting the sensors spectral response under different illuminants (where the sensor in general will have some kind of response to all colour) and you can make some pretty big differences here - i.e how we map tungsten response changed pretty dramatically going to Gen 4 and this can have a big effect on things under those lighting conditions. When you transform to other spaces you still always have this sensor response mapping "baked in" already.

I have only seen Red allow a sensor RGB output from their SDK but for every other manufacturer I've seen its not an option and its a bit debatable how useful it is for most end users - ARRI's early logC was sensor RGB (they changed it early on to the now in-use ARRI Wide Gamut so most users are prob not familiar with it) and so was BMD (but the sensor/CFAs were obviously different between them so you would not get the same thing at all). Ideally you want the sensor (and full optical stacks) spectral response curves to be able to map from the sensor response to standard spaces (or your own custom space), or to at least do regression fits for the illuminant you are shooting. Likely beyond most end users but the difference can be subtle or VERY obvious depending on the approach.

soohyun wrote:A suggestion to those who wish to purchase this:

The Micro is essentially an upgrade to the OG BMPCC in every way. Same sensor, but upgraded electronics that allow for 60fps, lower rolling shutter (13ms vs 18ms), active cooling, better battery life, and a full-sized HDMI port. There's a few that claim the color looks better than the Pocket as well, myself included.

The ergonomics is different; OG Pocket is for handheld, but for rigging the Micro is infinitely better.

The Micro is not as far as I can see on the current list of BMD products, so second hand will be the only way.
It may well have been removed ages ago, I just didn't notice.
Steve.

After 3 projects with the bmpcc 4k and 6k I sold them.
And now use the OG pocket with the BMCC 2.5K,.that I have always kept and not sold
I am considering buying the bmmcc for a bit of slowmo shots
Those sensors are equally unmatchable....

soohyun wrote:A suggestion to those who wish to purchase this:

The Micro is essentially an upgrade to the OG BMPCC in every way. Same sensor, but upgraded electronics that allow for 60fps, lower rolling shutter (13ms vs 18ms), active cooling, better battery life, and a full-sized HDMI port. There's a few that claim the color looks better than the Pocket as well, myself included.

The ergonomics is different; OG Pocket is for handheld, but for rigging the Micro is infinitely better.

The micro cinema camera has less aliasing and false colour, looks cleaner.

virgil21 wrote:Hello everyone,

The original BMPCC is the only camera I would ever personally own. However, my question is less related to the camera image than using modern-day external batteries with the camera. Unfortunately, I do not know enough about electronics. I would like to know what modern battery I will be able to use with my camera without the fear of breaking my camera.

A simple solution is to get either the Tilta or Smallrig NP-F battery adapter and mount it either directly on the camera's top mounting point or on a cage if you're using one. The larger size NP-F battery can power the camera for several hours. The Tilta battery adapter has both a 7.4 volt and a 12 volt DC out; use the 12 volt.

Man, i tried to love the Original BMPCC and found it really hard to get used to. We've been spoiled with high frame rates, brighter screens, longer battery life, tilt screens, BRAW, etc.

Thinking of how i was trying to use the Original Pocket, the smaller size, both in sensor and physical, it just wasn't conducive to my shooting style. The P6K Pro fills my needs for 'more discreet' filming, even though it's fairly large, comparably.

Adam Langdon wrote:Man, i tried to love the Original BMPCC and found it really hard to get used to. We've been spoiled with high frame rates, brighter screens, longer battery life, tilt screens, BRAW, etc.

Thinking of how i was trying to use the Original Pocket, the smaller size, both in sensor and physical, it just wasn't conducive to my shooting style. The P6K Pro fills my needs for 'more discreet' filming, even though it's fairly large, comparably.

i mean, the people who overrate these cameras now, their main argument always boils down to 'the look'. but the fact is that its look isnt that inherently special. everyone claims that it's super film like, but it looks more like an ENG broadcast camera in non controlled shooting environments. it clips a lot easier than the p4k from what i can see, and the clipping looks worse. you wouldnt guess it has a dgo sensor based on its dynamic range either. all the footage taken with it that looks good, would also look good on any other good camera. its kinda grainy 'texture' could also be replicated pretty easily.

i get that some people are buying it again for nostalgia related reasons, that they remember having fun with it years ago, and it truly has a cute little form factor. but the reputation that these cameras have gotten online the last few years for being the closest thing to the alexa or film or whatever is completely unwarranted.

MKUltraPrimes wrote:

Adam Langdon wrote:Man, i tried to love the Original BMPCC and found it really hard to get used to. We've been spoiled with high frame rates, brighter screens, longer battery life, tilt screens, BRAW, etc.

Thinking of how i was trying to use the Original Pocket, the smaller size, both in sensor and physical, it just wasn't conducive to my shooting style. The P6K Pro fills my needs for 'more discreet' filming, even though it's fairly large, comparably.

i mean, the people who overrate these cameras now, their main argument always boils down to 'the look'. but the fact is that its look isnt that inherently special. everyone claims that it's super film like, but it looks more like an ENG broadcast camera in non controlled shooting environments. it clips a lot easier than the p4k from what i can see, and the clipping looks worse. you wouldnt guess it has a dgo sensor based on its dynamic range either. all the footage taken with it that looks good, would also look good on any other good camera. its kinda grainy 'texture' could also be replicated pretty easily.

i get that some people are buying it again for nostalgia related reasons, that they remember having fun with it years ago, and it truly has a cute little form factor. but the reputation that these cameras have gotten online the last few years for being the closest thing to the alexa or film or whatever is completely unwarranted.

I wouldnt want to spend my time on nostalgia but what works for me. Its true that current pocket cameras don't clip as easily as the OG pocket and Micro cameras but that does not suggest a superior IQ. What different for me is the rolloff and extra tonality in the Fairchild sensor. The Sony sensor for me the tonaility comes in bigger steps and less gradual.

Can’t wait for 2025 when everyone is remembering how good we had it with the pocket 4K/6k and wishing blackmagic would go back to their Sony sensors.

Joenkeck wrote:Can’t wait for 2025 when everyone is remembering how good we had it with the pocket 4K/6k and wishing blackmagic would go back to their Sony sensors.

If BMD next cameras are not good for low light then people who miss the low light ability will probably say they miss the Sony sensor.