Blackmagic Forum

John Brawley wrote:

WahWay wrote:

Eugenia Loli wrote:
I need AF

If you already have a bunch of EF lenses and FF sensor is not a must have you be better off with a Komodo.

Maybe want to wait to see how good the AF is.

JB

I will be surprised if RED will have amazing autofocus.

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:
I will be surprised if RED will have amazing autofocus.

I have to agree.

JB

dondidnod wrote:
I wonder if the floating mounts from the IBIS systems are preventing heat transfer off the sensor? Will they start making tripod mounts with powerful fans like they do for laptops to improve reliability? Will the sensors loosen up on their mounts after a while, causing them to overheat? Could this limit their raw output above 10 bit, once Atomos builds a recorder for it?

IBIS makes it very hard.

Important to note here that it’s not about the sensor “overheating” and tuning to ashes, but about maintaining the thermal performance of the sensor. It will likely keep working but give you a very poor picture with a lot more noise and hot pixels showing up.

When calibrating a camera for performance they make assumptions about the temperature. As the temperature of the sensor increases, the noise increases dramatically.

This is why Astro photographers have long COOLED their sensors. The cooler the sensor is the better the performance.

https://petapixel.com/2018/06/01/these- ... e-cooling/

JB

I guess it's a good thing that these cameras have a "safety" mechanism for our protection.

dondidnod wrote:I guess it's a good thing that these cameras have a "safety" mechanism for our protection.

You know the thing is I constantly see people talking about BMD cameras overheating. There's a thread on a FB now talking about it.

And they just don't. Really. They never overheat. Despite the numerous reviews written on various sites.

I've seen one internal battery explode famously where a guy posted online. Presumably a faulty LiIon battery.

But they don't overheat. Yeah they get hot. Sometimes they get really hot to touch. I think in one example on the BMCC a guy managed to melt his SSD...camera kept working....

But they are solid state cooled. And so far I've never seen a credible example of a BMD camera overheating.

I have seen media stop working and some SSD media seems to even have heat throttling and I think a lot of people ASSUME the camera "overheated" because the media stopped working.

Seriously I hope someone can point an iron clad example of it being heat related because I think it would be a first. Post a screenshot of the "overheat" warning.

I had a G2 a couple of shows ago and I noticed the body was getting quite warm, but I didn't think much of it.

Turns out the FAN had stopped working. I realised I couldn't hear it anymore when I was in a very quiet room.

Still kept on using it, as we only had a couple of weeks to go.

JB

John Brawley wrote:

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:
I will be surprised if RED will have amazing autofocus.

I have to agree.

JB

Not Canon level with its eye tracking but probably on par with Panasonic but still better than push focus like what we have with BMD.

WahWay wrote:Not Canon level with its eye tracking but probably on par with Panasonic but still better than push focus like what we have with BMD.

Let's check back in 12 months ?

JB

John Brawley wrote:

WahWay wrote:Not Canon level with its eye tracking but probably on par with Panasonic but still better than push focus like what we have with BMD.

Let's check back in 12 months ?

JB

So BMD is now testing fancy AF system? Shall I save for a new BMD camera now

WahWay wrote:

John Brawley wrote:

WahWay wrote:Not Canon level with its eye tracking but probably on par with Panasonic but still better than push focus like what we have with BMD.

Let's check back in 12 months ?

JB

So BMD is now testing fancy AF system? Shall I save for a new BMD camera now

I didn't say that.

I'm saying, RE KOMODO, let's check back in 12 months and see how good their AF is.

Right now you can't even use an RF lens on their RF mount camera.

JB

John Brawley wrote:

I didn't say that.

I'm saying, RE KOMODO, let's check back in 12 months and see how good their AF is.

Right now you can't even use an RF lens on their RF mount camera.

JB

Oh I aint bothered with RF lens. EF lenses and the EF adapter.

Does anybody know if the OLED viewfinder has an automatic shutter to protect it from the sun?
One of the photos seems to show one, but I'm not sure. Would be another plus.

Looks like Canon might be suspending delivery of second shipment of the R5 till november to make way for new FW or even hardware alteration to mitigate overheating issues.
https://www.canonrumors.com/whats-next-for-the-canon-eos-r5-and-canon-eos-r6/

Will customers who had recieved their cameras in the first shipment have to send their cameras back but would it not be better to with hold the first shipment until the problem is addressed? It maybe a modification that can be done by Canon dealership. If the rumours is true I'm glad they are being addressed.

WahWay wrote:Looks like Canon might be suspending delivery of second shipment of the R5 till november to make way for new FW or even hardware alteration to mitigate overheating issues.
https://www.canonrumors.com/whats-next-for-the-canon-eos-r5-and-canon-eos-r6/

Will customers who had recieved their cameras in the first shipment have to send their cameras back but would it not be better to with hold the first shipment until the problem is addressed? It maybe a modification that can be done by Canon dealership. If the rumours is true I'm glad they are being addressed.

If Canon can provide a reasonable solution, and remove the 30 minute recording limit, then the R5 becomes a contender for a great hybrid camera.

CANON R5 GOTCHAS:
- Bad overheating
- Recording time limit

SONY A7S III GOTCHAS:
- Overheating
- Low resolution stills

PANASONIC S1 GOTCHAS:
- Unusable video autofocus

So, the state of the union remains for me: Pocket4K for narrative and music videos, GH5 for anything else. It seems highly unlikely that the GH6 will have significantly better auto-focus given the limits of contrast detection, but my bank account rests safe until we know for sure.

Several Sony ambassadors with A7SIII tested 4k/24fps and it shutdown after 30mins when that mode is limitless in the R5. Another test says A7SIII at 4k/60fps shutdown in 20 mins before the R5 did in the same room. So Sony is not off the hook and are just as bad but maybe external recording using ProResRAW is less vulnerable to overheating.

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:I will be surprised if RED will have amazing autofocus.

From what he's said, so would Jarred Land.

John Brawley wrote:You know the thing is I constantly see people talking about BMD cameras overheating. There's a thread on a FB now talking about it.

If someone was foolish enough to cover the vents on the camera, maybe... but who'd be that big a fool?

BS. They may get loud, but I've never seen a Red shut down if the fan was not deliberately turned off for sound.

A7S III still looks like a DSLR. The image looks more "plasticy" than a BM camera. However, it is probably more ideal for YouTube. I see A LOT of banding in the sky from the footage I've seen. I haven't seen any of the 16 bit raw though. Low light... That's nice.

dondidnod wrote:In this video a Sony A7S III shut down due to overheating after 29 min., sooner than a Canon R5 that quit after 34 min.

Yes, but to be fair it was shot at noon in July in South Florida on a black trampoline. If you ever find me filming under those conditions please poke a fork in me when you check if I'm done.

True, it's extreme and not fully scientific.
But at least he gave them an equal chance by flipping out all screens.

Que Thompson wrote:A7S III still looks like a DSLR. The image looks more "plasticy" than a BM camera. However, it is probably more ideal for YouTube. I see A LOT of banding in the sky from the footage I've seen. I haven't seen any of the 16 bit raw though. Low light... That's nice.

Is this downloaded footage you have graded yourself or Youtube?

Here's a funny one, but 100% true story. Yesterday I had a nap. When I usually have naps, I become lucid. So I get this lucid dream where I slide out of my body (that's still visibly sleeping on the bed), and I walk downstairs in my home. There I find an entity that looks human, but I somehow know that she's not human. So she starts telling me about having to lose weight and go walk out in parks more, yada yada. I tell her that's old advice, and I instead ask her: "Canon or Sony? Which one should I get for video?"

"Sony" she says.

There you have it folks. From an alien/spirit's mouth, haha.

Are you sure you have not misheard and that she actually said "Phoney"

You know when the spirit tells you to lose weight and be more active. She knows that if you are using a Sony it will force you to work harder, to run around more in frustration in effect make you lose weight. The Canon will be too easy to use, you might not even need a gimbal, everything will focus wonderfully and less work for you and won't help you in your weight loss. That is how I interprete it

Please, guys. Dont do drugs before posting here.

Ulysses Paiva wrote:Please, guys. Dont do drugs before posting here.

Sounded like a DMT trip.

John Griffin wrote:

Que Thompson wrote:A7S III still looks like a DSLR. The image looks more "plasticy" than a BM camera. However, it is probably more ideal for YouTube. I see A LOT of banding in the sky from the footage I've seen. I haven't seen any of the 16 bit raw though. Low light... That's nice.

Is this downloaded footage you have graded yourself or Youtube?

YouTube footage.

Who cares how it looks on your computer? Nobody is watching it there but you.

Que Thompson wrote:

John Griffin wrote:

Que Thompson wrote:A7S III still looks like a DSLR. The image looks more "plasticy" than a BM camera. However, it is probably more ideal for YouTube. I see A LOT of banding in the sky from the footage I've seen. I haven't seen any of the 16 bit raw though. Low light... That's nice.

Is this downloaded footage you have graded yourself or Youtube?

YouTube footage.

Who cares how it looks on your computer? Nobody is watching it there but you.

Who cares how it looks on YouTube. Nobody is watching it to judge the image quality of a camera.......

John Griffin wrote:

Que Thompson wrote:

John Griffin wrote:[quote="Que Thompson"]A7S III still looks like a DSLR. The image looks more "plasticy" than a BM camera. However, it is probably more ideal for YouTube. I see A LOT of banding in the sky from the footage I've seen. I haven't seen any of the 16 bit raw though. Low light... That's nice.

Is this downloaded footage you have graded yourself or Youtube?

YouTube footage.

Who cares how it looks on your computer? Nobody is watching it there but you.

Who cares how it looks on YouTube. Nobody is watching it to judge the image quality of a camera.......[/quote]:lol:
Ok

Please, guys. Dont do drugs before posting here.

The only drug I take is for my high blood pressure. In my research over the years I've eventually found that you can access some of the same entities with just lucid dreaming. Or even meditation (with more effort).

BTW, I wonder if the Sigma 24-70 with its EF adapter will provide the full AF performance of a native lens on a Sony. I need a 24-70 with IS you see, and Sony provides none. Anyone has experience how that Sigma EF adapter performs?

Eugenia Loli wrote:The only drug I take is for my high blood pressure. In my research over the years I've eventually found that you can access some of the same entities with just lucid dreaming. Or even meditation (with more effort).

Next time ask her about the Euro Lottery numbers and tell me about it. Then I can prove if she is telling the truth

Que Thompson wrote:Who cares how it looks on your computer? Nobody is watching it there but you.

Im laughing but I can relate to that. I dont know why.

So people are having out of body experiences? Normally, in a mature adult, the ego with it's strong will to live prevents such "supernatural" experiences. This is more common among adolescents who are faced with stress in adapting to their new circumstances.

Could this be a trend in light of so many people dying from the pandemic? Are we trying to make sense of it by preparing and anticipating our own demise? Maybe it's a sign that we should be talking about our fears to a good bartender (scratch that), close friends, a therapist or online forums. The trick is to find one that can help.

Your spirit entity might be one who came of age in the 50's or 60's when a new Japanese firm was looking for a name to market it's products in the US. In 1950s Japan, "sonny boys" was a loan word in Japanese, which connoted smart and presentable young men. Sony was the preferred brand for baby boomers that facing persecution for listening to rock and roll music, left the house listening to their transistor radios. Maybe this entity just wants you to get out of the house to exercise using a device that it understands will help facilitate that. Being a brand that has traditionally been associated with quality, this answer provides stability in uncertain times.

Your spirit entity might be someone who has passed on and wants to feel useful. Just because someone died, does not mean they know anything. We're not talking about the Virgin Mary here. I'd look for a good clairvoyant healer that can purge your aura of these hangers on trying to control your life.

Given the unproven marriage of deep bit high speed recording with the compromises of an IBIS sensor mount, you have to ask can you afford it if it fails? This can be a source of fear.

To leverage it's features, you would probably have to spend $5,000 USD plus for a couple of Sony E mount lenses. This locks you into their ecosystem. Due to it's short focal length, you can't use those lenses on your next upgrade unless it's a Sony. Marry the lenses, date the camera.

Add another $599 or more for an external recorder from Atomos once they come up with the update for the Ninja V hdr that supports 12 bit Apple ProRes Raw up to DCI 4K24 or UHD 4K30. This is something that it should have been able to do internally. Both the FS7 and FX9 require a $2,000 and $2,500 extension unit, respectively, just to do be able to output RAW and have useable timecode. They are not likely to undercut that market. I wonder if it's because they don't want to pay royalties to whomever is writing the codec, like Apple with ProRes raw. Sony generally hasn't done that in the past. Until we see those 12 bit ProRes raw images, we won't be able to fairly compare this camera with it's competitors.

The response from Sony camera owners who are used to it's look has been mixed so far with the available 10 bit images.

Then there's the lack of SSD recording. You have to spend over 5x more on Cfast express cards.

I wanted an A7R II back in 2016 at $3,000 USD. It would now be worth $700 USD. That's a lot of depreciation in 4 years.

I'm more of a hobbyist, and can't spend money like that unless I can make money in the short run doing it.

So people are having out of body experiences? Normally, in a mature adult, the ego with it's strong will to live prevents such "supernatural" experiences. This is more common among adolescents who are faced with stress in adapting to their new circumstances.

For me it started right around my 40th birthday. It had never happened to me before. So for the last few years I have these experiences on and off, depending on my sleeping patterns (which is how you enter lucid dreaming). I haven't had such experiences while awake btw: I stay awake till late, I go walk late at night in the suburbs (due to heat when I was in California), never seen anything out of the ordinary. I've seen a UFO when I was 17 when I was still in Greece, experienced together with another 4-5 kids, but that's about it.

Your spirit entity might be one who .... .

I'm not religious, so I don't believe in spirits of any kind. I feel that these are misunderstood notions based on not having complete understanding yet of our environment. I rather think of them as aliens. I don't consider her an aspect of my subconscious either. Neither I subscribe to New Age nonsense about "Love and Light" and "Pleiadians that look like Aryans" etc. I find such concepts laughable.

But I don't disagree with the notion that an advanced civilization might use non-direct methods to contact us in order to help us evolve with the least amount of cultural and intellectual shock possible.

Just because someone died, does not mean they know anything

She can definitely see potentialities (just potentialities, not concrete outcomes), and some of them were unexpected to me. I won't go into detail, but I will mention that you need to be thinking/computing in 4D to be able to discern potentialities. IBM's master mathematician, Clifford A. Pickover PhD has a great book about it: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0195130065/ Another book that I loved about the subject, while more heavy on the math, was a math professor's (mostly having to do with topology of 4D, and how that is similar to how we experience dream physics): https://www.amazon.com/Fourth-Dimension ... 0486779785

Do I trust her with no question? No. Be it human or alien, I always tread carefully.

serious cinematographers wouldn't want anything to do with AF.

I’m sorry but this sounds like the old guard trying to hang on to the last bit of reasoning they have to prevent change...
Yes, “serious” cinematographers have a seperate crew member with a handheld remote unit that moves the focus wheel to the middle of the tape to make sure the focus is nailed... isn’t that just really expensive AF???
If I had a guy follow me around when doing run and gun then I guess I wouldn’t want AF either.
The term “cinema” camera is going the way of the dodo, we now have a lot of very capable high quality capture devices almost ALL of which can be watched on a cinema screen.. AF and IBIS is coming and BM needs to get on board.

Boardpig wrote:

serious cinematographers wouldn't want anything to do with AF.

I’m sorry but this sounds like the old guard trying to hang on to the last bit of reasoning they have to prevent change...
Yes, “serious” cinematographers have a seperate crew member with a handheld remote unit that moves the focus wheel to the middle of the tape to make sure the focus is nailed... isn’t that just really expensive AF???
If I had a guy follow me around when doing run and gun then I guess I wouldn’t want AF either.
The term “cinema” camera is going the way of the dodo, we now have a lot of very capable high quality capture devices almost ALL of which can be watched on a cinema screen.. AF and IBIS is coming and BM needs to get on board.

Fully agreed. Technology moves ever forward and the industry adjusts. I was watching this video and they shot with the A7S III for a few days, all in AF (BTS video is in French). I mean, would you consider them "not serious"? You see, they had a crew of 3-4 people from a real production company behind the short film, which would be enough to shoot an indie feature film, for example. So, serious enough. And they still used AF. I also saw Armado's video with the R5, shooting short films with it too a few days ago, and they had some BTS shots when they used Canon EF lenses, and they were using AF in them (they used manual focus only when they switched to older cinema lenses). AF and IBIS are here to stay. What separates Sony AF and Canon AF is the better AI/logic found in Canon cameras. Soon, every manufacturer will caught up with that. I hope Blackmagic puts a real effort in those aspects too.

Give me IBIS over autofocus any day. I so wish BMD would add it to the BMPCC range...

jacobsch wrote:Give me IBIS over autofocus any day. I so wish BMD would add it to the BMPCC range...

Generally OIS is better than IBS and already available on many lenses.

That A7SIII video short is pretty good demo of AF even though I'm not totally convinced by the smoothed out video look from that camera. Until BMD brings out a smart AF camera I have my sight set elsewhere for now.

I'm actually impress with Sigma FP. It is their first camera. I look forward to seeing what they bring us in their next camera.

> I'm not totally convinced by the smoothed out video look from that camera.

The camera is not video-like. The video in question is video-like, because that's how the producers decided to grade and cut the film as. But it can be just as good as a cinema camera if you grade the right way (Phantom Luts are phenomental for slog2/3), you shoot the right way, and you cut it right.

Eugenia Loli wrote:

> I'm not totally convinced by the smoothed out video look from that camera.

The camera is not video-like. The video in question is video-like, because that's how the producers decided to grade and cut the film as. But it can be just as good as a cinema camera if you grade the right way (Phantom Luts are phenomental for slog2/3), you shoot the right way, and you cut it right.

I have yet to see any footage from the A7SIII out so far that have not had the video look.

I have yet to see any footage from the A7SIII out so far that have not had the video look.

That's because no one shot a narrative with it and colored it properly. They just slapped the manufacturer's lut on it, for ease. They only had a few days with the camera, you can only finalize standard video in that time. If you want to see how good slog can be, do a search on youtube for: phantom luts sony
Or you can watch this guy's stuff (watch these on a big TV via Chromecast or Roku/AppleTV/FireTV to appreciate the color of the Phantom Luts):
https://www.youtube.com/c/SleeplessDylan/videos
The look you see there is the Kodak film look.

Eugenia Loli wrote: They only had a few days with the camera, you can only finalize standard video in that time.

Phillip Bloom has been shooting with for 7 weeks including demo with ProresRaw. Other amabassodors also had it for months.

It requires a special set of skills to make something look like film (or like Arri emulating the film look). What you perceive as a "blockbuster movie look", or even a well-prepared indie movie look, requires not only proper lights and sets, and proper grading, but also proper texture grading (which goes further than adding grain). None of these youtubers know how to do all of those things. And the colorists who do, or the set designers who do, usually work in Hollywood, not on youtube. The only other group of people that can be rather good at it are music video filmmakers, since they usually have to be creative and learn those tricks to differentiate themselves.

So don't expect the "film look" from youtubers doing reviews. That's not what they're good at. You need to wait a few months, until the first short films are shot with the A7S III before you can judge its cinematic-ness.

Here's a short film, shot with the A7S II in slog2, using the Phantom Luts. Perfectly cinematic.

Eugenia Loli wrote:Here's a short film, shot with the A7S II in slog2, using the Phantom Luts. Perfectly cinematic.

Which just goes to show how differently we all view material. There's nothing there which this viewer would associate with "cinematic", and the closeups in particular scream, to these eyes, "video camera".

Without a commonly accepted definition -- a specification, really -- what does "cinematic" mean, other than "I like it" or "good production values"? Excluding artifacts like grain and projector weave, film itself can look like a million different things. So down with "cinematic"....

Well I need a camera that has the film look without the need of special skills. That is the whole point of me moving away from 5DMk2 and GH2 to BMD all those years ago because I got fed up of messing about with filmconvert to fake it out. Never want to jump right back in again just because it now offer good AF. A7SIII looks to me like a youtuber cam.

WahWay wrote:Well I need a camera that has the film look without the need of special skills

There is no such camera. 35mm film itself looks like video, without "special skills".

WahWay wrote:Well I need a camera that has the film look without the need of special skills. That is the whole point of me moving away from 5DMk2 and GH2 to BMD all those years ago because I got fed up of messing about with filmconvert to fake it out. Never want to jump right back in again just because it now offer good AF. A7SIII looks to me like a youtuber cam.

and you have said it’s not good enough for stills so I guess this camera is just not for you - time to move on?

John Paines wrote:

WahWay wrote:Well I need a camera that has the film look without the need of special skills

There is no such camera. 35mm film itself looks like video, without "special skills".

Maybe not in absolute term but that was not what was in disccusion. What is in discussion was consumer look in video cams and the requirement to spend time and tricks to make it look like film. To be honest I also think film look is overrated as I believe digital is capable of being superior.

John Griffin wrote: and you have said it’s not good enough for stills so I guess this camera is just not for you - time to move on?

The headline says "The new standard" and I'm giving my 2 cents worth why it is not and potentially a step back if your a BMD shooter.

Until you own the camera and work with it you will never know and especially not from YouTube videos. All modern cameras are good enough in image terms and better than most users abilities. All you get are extra features to make life easier and suit your particular working style. Everyone wants perfection but good enough is better than most people are already able to handle. Forums are full of people who think that once they have achieved the ‘pro / cinematic / non video etc look’ of the footage they will be respected but unfortunately what they don’t grasp is that once you have achieved this then all your failings in the other areas of cinematography and film making will be laid bare for all to see so be careful what you wish for.......