BRAW external recording on a7s iii?

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TheMonty

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BRAW external recording on a7s iii?

PostTue Jul 28, 2020 10:26 pm

Does anyone know if there is any plan to support BRAW recording externally on the a7s iii through the video assist or if it is even possible? This would be a game changer
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: BRAW external recording on a7s iii?

PostTue Jul 28, 2020 10:33 pm

If there is RAW output over HDMI then nothing stops BM adding support. It's purely up to BM ( I doubt Sony would ever try to make it difficult by not sharing needed details).
Camera manufacture role ends on supporting RAW signal over HDMI (+ sharing details about it). Rest is up to recorder manufactures. Atoms is adding support, so BM can do it as well (or anyone with other recorder).
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TheMonty

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Re: BRAW external recording on a7s iii?

PostTue Jul 28, 2020 10:52 pm

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:If there is RAW output over HDMI then nothing stops BM adding support. It's purely up to BM ( I doubt Sony would ever try to make it difficult by not sharing needed details).
Camera manufacture role ends on supporting RAW signal over HDMI (+ sharing details about it). Rest is up to recorder manufactures. Atoms is adding support, so BM can do it as well (or anyone with other recorder).


Interesting...blackmagic the ball is in your court
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Adam Rainer

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Re: BRAW external recording on a7s iii?

PostWed Jul 29, 2020 10:25 am

Definitely interested in external BRAW recording for the A7sIII
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Krishna Pada

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Re: BRAW external recording on a7s iii?

PostWed Jul 29, 2020 1:21 pm

TheMonty wrote:
Andrew Kolakowski wrote:If there is RAW output over HDMI then nothing stops BM adding support. It's purely up to BM ( I doubt Sony would ever try to make it difficult by not sharing needed details).
Camera manufacture role ends on supporting RAW signal over HDMI (+ sharing details about it). Rest is up to recorder manufactures. Atoms is adding support, so BM can do it as well (or anyone with other recorder).


Interesting...blackmagic the ball is in your court


I think the ball is in Sony's court.
Here's what Blackmagic has to say about their monitors: "12G HDR models support Blackmagic RAW recording from supported cameras."
So far, Canon C-200, Panasonic EVA-1 and Panasonic S1H have added support through firmware updates in the cameras.
I would love to see Sony A7s3 adding BRAW support.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: BRAW external recording on a7s iii?

PostWed Jul 29, 2020 3:38 pm

Sorry, but it doesn't work this way.
How do you imagine Sony adding code to BM recorder :D It's recorder which needs to understand incoming signal from camera (although sometimes both sides may need some tweaks).
Recorder manufacture has to play key role for each camera RAW output. Depending how much interest 2nd side has in it they may help you a lot or just give you needed details about their RAW signal structure (more precisely how it's mapped to an HDMI signal).

Sony may need to do some firmware update as well, but key job is done for them. They support RAW data+metadata over HDMI (same for any recorder) and it's up to you to make your recorder understand it and record correctly. RAW is plain simple data (can have different bit depth)- not much you can do about it. You can just differently pass it over HDMI and this is why external recorders need "support" for each camera as different manufactures tend to do it slightly different. There is no 1 standard way as far as I know. If there would then things would be easier. On recorder side ProResRAW meant to be an answer as they try to make it a "standard" RAW format. Who knows- maybe one day it will have same broad support like ProRes in post world. Idea is good, but realisation not so easy.
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Brad Hurley

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Re: BRAW external recording on a7s iii?

PostWed Jul 29, 2020 5:27 pm

Krishna Pada wrote:So far, Canon C-200, Panasonic EVA-1 and Panasonic S1H have added support through firmware updates in the cameras.


Add the Sigma fp to that list.

I think it takes two to tango. In Sigma's case, they released a firmware update, and BMD profiled the Sigma fp sensor and released a BRAW update (and update to the Video Assist 12g HDR).
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ricardo marty

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Re: BRAW external recording on a7s iii?

PostWed Jul 29, 2020 5:46 pm

Im seeing bmd support forfor braw on va other cameras as so slow that I wonder it the camera manufacturers are not helping out.

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Brad Hurley

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Re: BRAW external recording on a7s iii?

PostWed Jul 29, 2020 6:22 pm

ricardo marty wrote:Im seeing bmd support forfor braw on va other cameras as so slow that I wonder it the camera manufacturers are not helping out.


It was actually pretty speedy in Sigma's case -- BMD came out with their updates well before Atomos, which announced it would support ProRes raw recording from the Sigma fp later this year. My understanding based on another thread is that BMD needs to profile the camera's sensor first before they can add BRAW recording capability for that camera on the Video Assist 12g HDR.
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Gene Kochanowsky

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Re: BRAW external recording on a7s iii?

PostWed Jul 29, 2020 6:39 pm

Yes, I was surprised at how quickly FP support came to the VA. But it is still a bit buggy when it comes to controlling VA recording with the record button on the FP.
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ricardo marty

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Re: BRAW external recording on a7s iii?

PostWed Jul 29, 2020 6:40 pm

Brad Hurley wrote:
ricardo marty wrote:Im seeing bmd support forfor braw on va other cameras as so slow that I wonder it the camera manufacturers are not helping out.


It was actually pretty speedy in Sigma's case -- BMD came out with their updates well before Atomos, which announced it would support ProRes raw recording from the Sigma fp later this year. My understanding based on another thread is that BMD needs to profile the camera's sensor first before they can add BRAW recording capability for that camera on the Video Assist 12g HDR.


So basically profiling the sensor is not enough. Cant BMD make the firmware and provide it to the camera manufacturers Does BMD need the cameras manufactures to do the profile?

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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: BRAW external recording on a7s iii?

PostWed Jul 29, 2020 8:18 pm

In case of 3rd party camera: you take RAW pixels and compress them along with metadata. Any profiling can be more related to actual final picture creation (which is rather a separate process to storing RAW data). This is where 1 standard RAW format may have some disadvantages against per camera/own RAW formats. With good one RAW format both companies should work together and store "per camera" info in SDK etc. so RAW from each camera is developed in optimal way (as it's done in case of RED, Arri etc.).
You can take any RAW data and convert to usable final data using "an average math", but it won't be optimal method at all.

Here is a process of converting CDNG RAW to Cineform RAW which describes what info you need in order to get properly debayered final image:
http://vfx-rants.blogspot.com/2012/08/b ... m-raw.html
In this case CDNG carries "profile" and when we want to convert it to other RAW format we can access it and properly interpret to get same end result as in case of original CDNG. It's similar to recording RAW with 3rd party recorder.

Profile should be provided by camera manufacture as far as I understand it. It's few matrixes, numbers etc. and camera manufactures already have it (they use it for internal recording).

It's all down to details- how well you implement whole process, how much metadata will camera pass and recorder store. Ideally each camera should provide plenty metadata which will be also recorded, like we see in case of eg. ARRI. Atm. it's rather only core metadata, like ISO, white balance etc.
Last edited by Andrew Kolakowski on Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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John Brawley

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Re: BRAW external recording on a7s iii?

PostWed Jul 29, 2020 8:37 pm

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:If there is RAW output over HDMI then nothing stops BM adding support. It's purely up to BM ( I doubt Sony would ever try to make it difficult by not sharing needed details).
Camera manufacture role ends on supporting RAW signal over HDMI (+ sharing details about it). Rest is up to recorder manufactures. Atoms is adding support, so BM can do it as well (or anyone with other recorder).


Well, it’s not that simple.

Blackmagic RAW requires a “profile” to be created of the sensor and Sony might not be open to allowing that. They’ve had this MO for a long time...hello betamax.

Sony are traditionally very closed in sharing a lot of their IP and opening up to anything that doesn’t have a SONY badge. Notice there aren’t any E mount cameras made by anyone ?

Sony may have in mind to build their own recorder, naturally using Sony media.

They may not, but that’s their usual MO.

To “work” with Blackmagic RAW would require would require them to reveal more than they might be prepared to reveal at a sensor level. It don’t just “record” the hdmi signal.

I could imagine maybe ProRes RAW being the more likely container format, though in reality it’s probably going to be just be a high bit depth LOG output. And won’t really be RAW, unless Sony have designed it that way. And if they had, I’m guessing they would have said so....

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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: BRAW external recording on a7s iii?

PostWed Jul 29, 2020 8:42 pm

I would love to hear what is this "profile". Atm. for me it's more a PR slogan than something unique or special.
Are those few matrixes describing how you develop sensor data to usable final image?
I assume you may not want to share it, but at the end (specially when it's not for sensor which is used in many cameras) you don't loose much by doing so.

No idea what you saying by "ProResRAW been a container". You can call it this way- it's a container to store RAW pixels in compressed way to save space. Raw pixels out of every typical Bayer pattern camera are basically the same (just different resolution, bit depth).
You can then take them, debayer and develop final image with "a math". You will get some image this way- not very nice most likely. Rest is few matrixes from camera developer+ metadata in order to be able to work with final image in tools like Resolve.
Last edited by Andrew Kolakowski on Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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John Brawley

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Re: BRAW external recording on a7s iii?

PostWed Jul 29, 2020 8:47 pm

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:I would love to hear what is this "profile". Atm. for me it's more a PR slogan than something unique or special.
Are those few matrixes describing how you develop sensor data to usable final image?
I assume you may not want to share it, but at the end (specially when it's not for sensor which is used in many cameras) you don't loose much by doing so.

No idea what you saying.
ProResRAW is nothing more than Raw pixels encode a bit. You can do it with any Raw data, out of any camera. You can then debayer and develop final image with "some math". You will get some image this way- not very nice most likely. Rest is few matrixes from camera developer+ metadata in order to be able to work with final image in tools like Resolve.


Cool mate, you obviously know better.

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Brad Hurley

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Re: BRAW external recording on a7s iii?

PostWed Jul 29, 2020 8:48 pm

John Brawley wrote:I could imagine maybe ProRes RAW being the more likely container format


See https://www.dpreview.com/news/932761644 ... r-recorder
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John Brawley

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Re: BRAW external recording on a7s iii?

PostWed Jul 29, 2020 8:52 pm

Brad Hurley wrote:
John Brawley wrote:I could imagine maybe ProRes RAW being the more likely container format


See https://www.dpreview.com/news/932761644 ... r-recorder


Yeah that’s what I assumed, it’s much easier to do.

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ricardo marty

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Re: BRAW external recording on a7s iii?

PostWed Jul 29, 2020 8:54 pm

Cant someone take the sensor profiles out of any of the recorders , It would just be the sensor data.and use it. Its not their property just the sensor data.


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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: BRAW external recording on a7s iii?

PostWed Jul 29, 2020 8:57 pm

John Brawley wrote:
Brad Hurley wrote:
John Brawley wrote:I could imagine maybe ProRes RAW being the more likely container format


See https://www.dpreview.com/news/932761644 ... r-recorder


Yeah that’s what I assumed, it’s much easier to do.

JB

It's exactly same RAW like BRAW (actually even better as allows you to easily access real RAW pixels and do own math on it).
No idea what are you trying to prove here? That it's less RAW than BRAW or what? The only thing which it may not be atm. if a format which gives you optimal starting point for grading, but this is the price to pay if you want to be a standard RAW format out there. It's all very early stage.
Last edited by Andrew Kolakowski on Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: BRAW external recording on a7s iii?

PostWed Jul 29, 2020 9:02 pm

ricardo marty wrote:Cant someone take the sensor profiles out of any of the recorders , It would just be the sensor data.and use it. Its not their property just the sensor data.


Ricardo Marty


Which recorder has a profile for new Sony a7s III?
You need to ask Sonny for it. If they don't want to share it then you can apply some "average math" to get starting point for final image. This is how some of the early ProResRAW seems to be developed and why you see such a eg. blown out image by default (it's due to lack of all needed metadata to get optimal start point). There is a lot of work to be done in order to get "nice" starting point image for every camera out there. I see it as next step. I assume this is exactly what BM is talking about with their "profiling". When they record BRAW for eg. Canon they want it to look "the same" in Resolve for the starting point as Canon own RAW.

No one is going to profile sensor for 3rd party camera (you will end up with different details than original ones for sure). You need to get it from manufacture. If they don't want to share then this is their decision. Those details are tight to sensor or even to actual camera based on particular sensor, so they are not "generic". By knowing them you are not gaining some amazing knowledge I assume.
cDNG stored some details in its metadata, so you can know some of the BM profiles this way.
Last edited by Andrew Kolakowski on Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: BRAW external recording on a7s iii?

PostWed Jul 29, 2020 9:23 pm

Brad Hurley wrote:
John Brawley wrote:I could imagine maybe ProRes RAW being the more likely container format


See https://www.dpreview.com/news/932761644 ... r-recorder


Btw...this footage looks very average, but Mr. Bloom sample footage never looked nice.
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Re: BRAW external recording on a7s iii?

PostWed Jul 29, 2020 9:29 pm

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:Btw...this footage looks very average, but Mr. Bloom sample footage never looked nice.


I have yet to see anything great from it, although i haven't looked very hard as I'm not interested in getting this camera myself. The "mini documentary" available at Cinema5D looks excruciatingly bad to me (although that was not recorded in ProRes Raw); I think I've seen nicer looking footage from smart phones.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: BRAW external recording on a7s iii?

PostWed Jul 29, 2020 9:49 pm

My a6300 holiday footage looks not worse :)
Last edited by Andrew Kolakowski on Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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ricardo marty

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Re: BRAW external recording on a7s iii?

PostWed Jul 29, 2020 9:54 pm

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:
ricardo marty wrote:Cant someone take the sensor profiles out of any of the recorders , It would just be the sensor data.and use it. Its not their property just the sensor data.


Ricardo Marty


Which recorder has a profile for new Sony a7s III?
You need to ask Sonny for it. If they don't want to share it then you can apply some "average math" to get starting point for final image. This is how some of the early ProResRAW seems to be developed and why you see such a eg. blown out image by default (it's due to lack of all needed metadata to get optimal start point). There is a lot of work to be done in order to get "nice" starting point image for every camera out there. I see it as next step. I assume this is exactly what BM is talking about with their "profiling". When they record BRAW for eg. Canon they want it to look "the same" in Resolve for the starting point as Canon own RAW.

No one is going to profile sensor for 3rd party camera (you will end up with different details than original ones for sure). You need to get it from manufacture. If they don't want to share then this is their decision. Those details are tight to sensor or even to actual camera based on particular sensor, so they are not "generic". By knowing them you are not gaining some amazing knowledge I assume.
cDNG stored some details in its metadata, so you can know some of the BM profiles this way.


Atomos infeno has various profiles for sony and Panasonic cameras.

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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: BRAW external recording on a7s iii?

PostWed Jul 29, 2020 10:02 pm

Not sure if it's easy to "take them".
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John Brawley

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Re: BRAW external recording on a7s iii?

PostWed Jul 29, 2020 10:11 pm

ricardo marty wrote:Cant someone take the sensor profiles out of any of the recorders , It would just be the sensor data.and use it. Its not their property just the sensor data.


Blackmagic RAW does a partial de-mosaic so it requires a bit more of a deeper understanding of what’s going on at the sensor level.

It’s not just a gamma profile.

So for example. RED and SONY on their higher end cameras, work through an SDK. There’s a special bit of software that’s effectively closed to everyone that’s required to “read” the RAW files. You can’t read the so called RAW files unless it’s though their SDK....

What a BMD recorder has to do is have access to the same info but not though an SDK because it’s happening in-camera.

The reason a lot of manufacturers use SDK’s is because they like to keep a lot of stuff that they might be doing to the file secret. Think of it as the secret recipe. (Hey you don’t still think RAW is somehow pure unadulterated sensor data do you ?)

To de-mosaic before the SDK at the sensor level out of the camera means sharing the recipe with a rival camera making company.

So not everyone want’s to do that....or if they do they have to be ok with sharing that info, or sharing it in a way that doesn’t compromise whatever IP they’re trying to protect...

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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: BRAW external recording on a7s iii?

PostWed Jul 29, 2020 10:51 pm

RED does it as they try to hide some obvious facts about their REDCODE format.
Resolve allows to choose Sony or Resolve debayer for Sony RAW meaning that Sonny is an open format.
Maybe there is some exception like Venice? If Resolve can access RAW pixels and use own debayering then it means it has access to Sony sensor profiles (or it would never be able to developed final image properly).
ProResRAW also allows to read pure RAW pixels, so you can add own debayering and whole further processing.
BRAW due to its nature does not give access to RAW pixels trough SDK. You get final image only through BM SDK.
Arri is also open (Arri or Resolve own debayer as well) and as far as I remember they have good documentation about their sensors and math behind them.
Canon seems to be open as well, so looks like those details are not that big deal at least for pro cameras.
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Re: BRAW external recording on a7s iii?

PostThu Jul 30, 2020 7:25 am

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:RED does it as they try to hide some obvious facts about their REDCODE format.
Resolve allows to choose Sony or Resolve debayer for Sony RAW meaning that Sonny is an open format.
Maybe there is some exception like Venice? If Resolve can access RAW pixels and use own debayering then it means it has access to Sony sensor profiles (or it would never be able to developed final image properly).
ProResRAW also allows to read pure RAW pixels, so you can add own debayering and whole further processing.
BRAW due to its nature does not give access to RAW pixels trough SDK. You get final image only through BM SDK.
Arri is also open (Arri or Resolve own debayer as well) and as far as I remember they have good documentation about their sensors and math behind them.
Canon seems to be open as well, so looks like those details are not that big deal at least for pro cameras.


Hi Andrew,

The Sony 16 bit linear raw in the Venice/F55/F5 can be encrypted, and the written file unlocked at the same time. How? Because it wasn't streamed but was recorded to a proprietary AXS R5 or R7 recorder. What Resolve gets is not sensor raw because by that time it's already been decoded and compressed 3:1. The "secret sauce" may well be the wavelet compression, firewalled by the recorder.

Now consider that Sony in the case of the A7SIII are playing loose. It's not the 16 bit raw from the Venice. The sensor bit depth is only 14 bits. Sony says A7SIII raw is "16 bit data." There is a reason for that, HDMI does not support 14 bit words, therefore the data contains two zeros at the end. It's likely uncompressed. Sony are not giving away secrets of the high end cinema cameras in the case of the A7SIII. And I doubt they do any compression whatsoever to the raw output. Why would they care? It's the problem of Atomos or BMD to make use of it.
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Re: BRAW external recording on a7s iii?

PostThu Jul 30, 2020 7:33 am

Should also be remembered the distinction between encoders and decoders. HEVC for example defines a standard process for decoding HEVC content, an open process so that all display devices can freely use it. But encoders can go about compressing a file any way they want, they are all different, proprietary, there are qualitative and quantitative differences and that's where the secrets are.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: BRAW external recording on a7s iii?

PostThu Jul 30, 2020 8:01 am

Tom Roper wrote:
Hi Andrew,

The Sony 16 bit linear raw in the Venice/F55/F5 can be encrypted, and the written file unlocked at the same time. How? Because it wasn't streamed but was recorded to a proprietary AXS R5 or R7 recorder. What Resolve gets is not sensor raw because by that time it's already been decoded and compressed 3:1. The "secret sauce" may well be the wavelet compression, firewalled by the recorder.


You've described a feature which is to protect files from been stolen/leaked- slightly different thing.

Encoding itself is irrelevant here (it's sort of always proprietary).
It doesn't really matter if RAW was compressed before or not. What matters is if you can have access (over SDK) to pure RAW pixels (if it's compressed RAW format it has to be decoded first and this is about always proprietary). In case of RED you ave no such an access. You can only get final debayered image. Most other RAW formats allow you to access RAW pixels and this makes them more open.
Last edited by Andrew Kolakowski on Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: BRAW external recording on a7s iii?

PostThu Jul 30, 2020 10:49 am

Tom Roper wrote:
Andrew Kolakowski wrote:RED does it as they try to hide some obvious facts about their REDCODE format.
Resolve allows to choose Sony or Resolve debayer for Sony RAW meaning that Sonny is an open format.
Maybe there is some exception like Venice? If Resolve can access RAW pixels and use own debayering then it means it has access to Sony sensor profiles (or it would never be able to developed final image properly).
ProResRAW also allows to read pure RAW pixels, so you can add own debayering and whole further processing.
BRAW due to its nature does not give access to RAW pixels trough SDK. You get final image only through BM SDK.
Arri is also open (Arri or Resolve own debayer as well) and as far as I remember they have good documentation about their sensors and math behind them.
Canon seems to be open as well, so looks like those details are not that big deal at least for pro cameras.


...Now consider that Sony in the case of the A7SIII are playing loose. It's not the 16 bit raw from the Venice. The sensor bit depth is only 14 bits. Sony says A7SIII raw is "16 bit data." There is a reason for that, HDMI does not support 14 bit words, therefore the data contains two zeros at the end. It's likely uncompressed. Sony are not giving away secrets of the high end cinema cameras in the case of the A7SIII. And I doubt they do any compression whatsoever to the raw output. Why would they care? It's the problem of Atomos or BMD to make use of it.


Yes, they map it to 12bit LOG and then encode to ProResRAW.
Data which will leave camera won't be compressed. It's a role of the recorder to do so (o not). HDMI here is really just a "cable", but you need details how signal looks like in order to process it. This is why every recorder needs to be made compatible with every camera separately.
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ricardo marty

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Re: BRAW external recording on a7s iii?

PostSat Aug 01, 2020 4:49 am

I know this doesn't exist but can it? A way to capture prores raw in DR win or stand alone app. and convert it to braw. Can this even be possible?

Ricardo Marty
Resolve 16, Abelton, Focusrite,
Inspiron 5675 1800x 8/16 core, Radeon RX580/8,16 GB ram, 512 sd, 500 Samsung Pro ssd.
Lenovo 7i15, i7-10750H Processort, 6 Cores, Nvidia 2060 6gb, 16gb ram, 512 nvme sd.
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Uli Plank

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Re: BRAW external recording on a7s iii?

PostSat Aug 01, 2020 5:55 am

Technically possible, but why should BMD ruin their business model?
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ricardo marty

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Re: BRAW external recording on a7s iii?

PostSat Aug 01, 2020 4:09 pm

Uli Plank wrote:Technically possible, but why should BMD ruin their business model?


I don't think that would be the case. I think its potential market will be the many who wont buy bmd cameras or V.A. because they need AF and IBIS but would like to edit in braw

And this would be a great way to expand DR studio and showcase the BMD universe. Of course I don't know if in the conversion Prores raw looses some of its abilities and if this would be a game changer to many.


Ricardo Marty
Resolve 16, Abelton, Focusrite,
Inspiron 5675 1800x 8/16 core, Radeon RX580/8,16 GB ram, 512 sd, 500 Samsung Pro ssd.
Lenovo 7i15, i7-10750H Processort, 6 Cores, Nvidia 2060 6gb, 16gb ram, 512 nvme sd.
Sony FS700R, Bmp4k, Sony A6600.
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John Brawley

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Re: BRAW external recording on a7s iii?

PostSat Aug 01, 2020 4:11 pm

ricardo marty wrote:
And this would be a great way to expand DR studio and showcase the BMD universe.



I think the give it away for free of the DR process has saturated the expansion of the BMD universe.

The fact that it’s barely got any limitations for the free version continues to astound me.

As does the fact that they’ve never ever charged for upgrades. I think my dongle was shipped with V8...once you’ve bought the studio version, that’s it. That’s all you’ve paid. Ever. No subscriptions.

JB
Last edited by John Brawley on Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Uli Plank

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Re: BRAW external recording on a7s iii?

PostSat Aug 01, 2020 4:59 pm

But converting to BRAW? From another camera?
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Re: BRAW external recording on a7s iii?

PostSat Aug 01, 2020 5:03 pm

:cry:
Uli Plank wrote:But converting to BRAW? From another camera?



Yes by cameras that bmd doesnt make. From customers that wont buy bmd style cinema cameras and want braw.

Ricardo Marty
Resolve 16, Abelton, Focusrite,
Inspiron 5675 1800x 8/16 core, Radeon RX580/8,16 GB ram, 512 sd, 500 Samsung Pro ssd.
Lenovo 7i15, i7-10750H Processort, 6 Cores, Nvidia 2060 6gb, 16gb ram, 512 nvme sd.
Sony FS700R, Bmp4k, Sony A6600.
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Uli Plank

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Re: BRAW external recording on a7s iii?

PostSat Aug 01, 2020 5:06 pm

They would need to get at the true RAW data of that camera.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: BRAW external recording on a7s iii?

PostSat Aug 01, 2020 10:00 pm

ProResRAW SDK provides you true RAW pixels just after decode. It would be double compression, but except this it’s possible.
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ricardo marty

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Re: BRAW external recording on a7s iii?

PostSat Aug 01, 2020 11:04 pm

Uli Plank wrote:But converting to BRAW? From another camera?



Converting braw from proresraw that any non bmd camera or recorder made.


Ricardo Marty
Resolve 16, Abelton, Focusrite,
Inspiron 5675 1800x 8/16 core, Radeon RX580/8,16 GB ram, 512 sd, 500 Samsung Pro ssd.
Lenovo 7i15, i7-10750H Processort, 6 Cores, Nvidia 2060 6gb, 16gb ram, 512 nvme sd.
Sony FS700R, Bmp4k, Sony A6600.
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carlomacchiavello

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Re: BRAW external recording on a7s iii?

PostSun Aug 02, 2020 10:29 am

Uli Plank wrote:But converting to BRAW? From another camera?
Uhm I think is a Blackmagic Design task. In braw sdk there are all decoding info to add braw decoding to software/hardware.
Encoding software I remember is Blackmagic Design exclusive only, and also a converter from another raw to braw is a task that only Blackmagic Design can do.
I hope to be wrong and see in the near future a converter from xxx raw to braw.
that mean profiling many sensor/xxx data to do a partial debayering camera work in software side, and could be a lots of work.


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ricardo marty

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Re: BRAW external recording on a7s iii?

PostSun Aug 02, 2020 4:46 pm

carlomacchiavello wrote:
Uli Plank wrote:But converting to BRAW? From another camera?
Uhm I think is a Blackmagic Design task. In braw sdk there are all decoding info to add braw decoding to software/hardware.
Encoding software I remember is Blackmagic Design exclusive only, and also a converter from another raw to braw is a task that only Blackmagic Design can do.
I hope to be wrong and see in the near future a converter from xxx raw to braw.
that mean profiling many sensor/xxx data to do a partial debayering camera work in software side, and could be a lots of work.


Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk

e ingested and converted in the nle

Why profile the sensor? the xxx raw is already a file and only needs to be converted to braw while ingested. It would be sdi/hdmi agnostic because its already done.

Ricardo Marty
Resolve 16, Abelton, Focusrite,
Inspiron 5675 1800x 8/16 core, Radeon RX580/8,16 GB ram, 512 sd, 500 Samsung Pro ssd.
Lenovo 7i15, i7-10750H Processort, 6 Cores, Nvidia 2060 6gb, 16gb ram, 512 nvme sd.
Sony FS700R, Bmp4k, Sony A6600.
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John Brawley

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Re: BRAW external recording on a7s iii?

PostSun Aug 02, 2020 4:48 pm

ricardo marty wrote: It would be sdi/hdmi agnostic because its already done.


That's not how Blackmagic RAW works.

JB
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carlomacchiavello

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Re: BRAW external recording on a7s iii?

PostSun Aug 02, 2020 6:11 pm

ricardo marty wrote:
carlomacchiavello wrote:
Uli Plank wrote:But converting to BRAW? From another camera?
Uhm I think is a Blackmagic Design task. In braw sdk there are all decoding info to add braw decoding to software/hardware.
Encoding software I remember is Blackmagic Design exclusive only, and also a converter from another raw to braw is a task that only Blackmagic Design can do.
I hope to be wrong and see in the near future a converter from xxx raw to braw.
that mean profiling many sensor/xxx data to do a partial debayering camera work in software side, and could be a lots of work.


Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk

e ingested and converted in the nle

Why profile the sensor? the xxx raw is already a file and only needs to be converted to braw while ingested. It would be sdi/hdmi agnostic because its already done.

Ricardo Marty


Usually braw seems tailored on sensor profile, i dubt that is so easy to convert xx raw to braw.
In the last 20 years, the only two not native raw format that i know are Dng (adobe raw container) and Cineform Raw, that you had utilities to convert from arriraw, redcode, sonyraw, photo raw to CFraw, and with external utilities Raw4Pro also Cdng from cinema camera and bmpc4k to Cfraw, but all completely dead.
I will hope sincerely that braw, like seems, will be a new universal raw codec to manage easely many different cameras raws, it had in its dna many interesting feature.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: BRAW external recording on a7s iii?

PostSun Aug 02, 2020 9:46 pm

If your starting RAW format has all needed sensor metadata then BM can make BRAW encoding possible.
Ideally any RAW needs all of this sensor info, but due to the way how BRAW works it's basically mandatory in its case.

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