Blackmagic Forum

Hi,

I just want to give you an update on the 4K camera.

As we mentioned a few weeks ago, we received the production sensors much later than we expected. When we built cameras from them we saw some big differences in the images between these production sensors vs the pre production samples we originally received. What this means is that we have been working over the last few weeks to replace a bunch of the software in the camera that handles the sensor calibration and image processing.

It's taking a bit longer than we expected to do this and we think its going to take about 3 to 4 weeks more to get those changes done and to get the QA process completed before we can start shipping.

We apologize for the delays from the original promised date. Ultimately, image calibration is a very important step so we want to make sure this is done properly before shipping.


Regards,

Grant Petty
Blackmagic Design

So what's going on with the BMPCC's shipping status and "blooming sensor" issue?

heisenberg83 wrote:So what's going on with the BMPCC's shipping status and "blooming sensor" issue?

I'm sure the blooming will be fixed in firmware heisenberg83, but Grant posted about the 4K Production camera Please try and stay on topic, since this Camera is much more anticipated,
Thank you for understanding!

Here we go again....

Grant Petty wrote:image calibration is a very important step so we want to make sure this is done properly before shipping.

Lol (In reference to the Black dot and Blooming on the BMPCC that is now shipping)

Grant Petty, thank you for the update.

Thanks for the update
4K cancelled...I'll take the available BMCC now

Darryl Gregory wrote:

heisenberg83 wrote:...Grant posted about the 4K Production camera Please try and stay on topic...

+1

adamroberts wrote:

Darryl Gregory wrote:

heisenberg83 wrote:...Grant posted about the 4K Production camera Please try and stay on topic...

+1

I always knew you were a nice guy Adam!
and FYI if I ever offended you?,
I am sorry! You have such a positive attitude here, and I do appreciate it!
it rubes off on all of us, and that's a good thing~

Darryl Gregory wrote:I always knew you were a nice guy Adam!
and FYI if I ever offended you?,
I am sorry! You have such a positive attitude here, and I do appreciate it!
it rubes off on all of us, and that's a good thing~

Darryl you've never offended me. You do how ever like to take pops at people that is often unnecessary. You just have a spiky personality.

adamroberts wrote:

Darryl Gregory wrote:I always knew you were a nice guy Adam!
and FYI if I ever offended you?,
I am sorry! You have such a positive attitude here, and I do appreciate it!
it rubes off on all of us, and that's a good thing~

Darryl you've never offended me. You do how ever like to take pops at people that is often unnecessary. You just have a spiky personality.

It's more than Spiky admittedly!
I'm more like the idiot savant who defends the "Iron Door of Truth", at the Gates of Camera Gear Hell!

HEHE

Grant Petty wrote:Hi,

I just want to give you an update on the 4K camera.

As we mentioned a few weeks ago, we received the production sensors much later than we expected. When we built cameras from them we saw some big differences in the images between these production sensors vs the pre production samples we originally received. What this means is that we have been working over the last few weeks to replace a bunch of the software in the camera that handles the sensor calibration and image processing.

It's taking a bit longer than we expected to do this and we think its going to take about 3 to 4 weeks more to get those changes done and to get the QA process completed before we can start shipping.

We apologize for the delays from the original promised date. Ultimately, image calibration is a very important step so we want to make sure this is done properly before shipping.


Regards,

Grant Petty
Blackmagic Design

Thanks Grant Glad to hear this.

thx for the update. What you say makes sense. I rather get a product that works. However. You have bought 3-4 weeks. Last time I heard 3-4 weeks was 6 weeks ago. Lets hope this time it is for real.

Now, could you do us the favor and change "shipping August" to "shipping october" or "shipping autumn"...

Thanks for the descriptive update!

ah thanks allot for the update. I was really confused about what was going on with the 4k

Don't worry take your time!!! But if you want happy costumers next time try not to give a date when you aren't 100% you are going to get it.

So is this new 4k sensor better than the pre-production version?

Samjack wrote:So is this new 4k sensor better than the pre-production version?

same question!

So you finished with hardware processes, and the left is software processes, Am I correct?

Thank you very much for the update.
   Best regards. Manu Gil

Muchas gracias por la actualización.
Un cordial saludo. Manu Gil

Thanks for the update, many of us appreciate being kept in the loop. Looking forward to more information.

ok. thanks for your reply.

but still do not understand why you give dates if you have the sensors and the cameras ...

example: it's like selling a ferrari new car model but still has no engine.


Now October. and in October will say that you lack any part of the camera ...

lack of seriousness

Thanks for the info Grant. I'm so excited to get this camera!

Ridiculous. If other companies functioned in a way where they didn't plan for bumps along the way, like BMD does't, they would fold. BMD has it good because they are the only game in town with $1000/$2000 shipping RAW camera's. This leaves a huge opportunity for a company that knows what they are doing to come in and take BMD's thunder. Maybe that company will give us audio meters. We can only hope.

Brian@202020 wrote:...Maybe that company will give us audio meters. We can only hope.

+1

I cancelled my 4K orders after BMD slashed the price on the BMCCs (I'll wait until they slash the price on the 4k in 6 months ).

At the moment there are plenty of cameras that do RAW and make their own sensors and have years of experience in making cameras.
The only reason people want BMD's cameras is because they are not holding back technology and trying their hardest to establish themselves in this arena. The upshot is We all benefit from this Now and in the future. Sure you can go away and buy a Sony FS700 and a recorder for about £11000 or £15000 or more for their F5 or perhaps £20,000 plus for the 55 Maybe go the canon route and pay £20,000 plus a recorder. Even the Chinese Kinefinty is a lot more money.

Anyone here can buy a RAW camera for peanuts £1500.. Right now courtesy of BMD But no.. Some want the models that you can put in your pocket or with a global shutter and want to hold BMD to a promised release date Come on get real If there are problems then BMD must correct them before selling them This whole Globes issue brings that to light.
The only real problem here is that there has been a lack of updates to retailers and to us. That has been unacceptable but now we have a belated update and so there is no need to keep trashing the company. I would really be upset if those trashing the company made BMD decide Oh lets treble the price or lets not bother. There should be some respect from all sides and a little appreciation of what undoubtably is a lot of work and effort going into this.

I would suggest that as long as we get updates then people.
1) Let BMD get on and make their cameras and accept they will be ready when they ready.
2)Buy a BMCC now.
3) Buy a more expensive camera elsewhere.

Aaron Scheiner wrote:

Brian@202020 wrote:...Maybe that company will give us audio meters. We can only hope.

+1

I cancelled my 4K orders after BMD slashed the price on the BMCCs (I'll wait until they slash the price on the 4k in 6 months ).

Quite amazing how many pocket cameras are turning up on ebay for £400 £500 more than what was paid. Maybe those buying the cameras should buy them because they want to use them to make films and not for the resale value.
1) The BMC is the cheapest RAW camera on the market and at its original price was a fraction of what others were The Chinese cant even match it.
2) A few months back I finally took the plunge and bought a red giant product That same product suddenly came up with 25% off But guess what I just felt a little unlucky Some you win Some you lose. All through life that happens Its always the way as soon as you buy something its almost guaranteed to come up cheaper somewhere else. Personally when I buy something I don't look back. I don't mourn the money I lost Or take it out on the people that dropped the price. What a waste of internet space.
3) Say you are a film maker serious about making films Why would you wait for them to potentially knock £500 off in 6 months? Wouldn't that 6 months be lost time? If you make films on the basis of waiting for an optimum price on a camera then are you a film maker or what? Just doesn't make any sense.

Please keep this on topic. Any discussions of the Pocket Cinema Camera should be in a different thread. Helps new readers looking for this thread to be about the Production Camera 4K update.

Thanks

Terry

I think it would be really something to complain about if Black Magic were,
jacking the price up of these cameras almost like what RED did with there scarlet range.

Yes it's a pain we don't have the 4k yet and some of us will have to just wait or make do with the 2.5k
WHICH price has just be phenomenally lowered, but I don't believe for one second BMC are doing this to piss their customers off. If anything though black magic... Next time there is a camera on the way... As said before from others, don't get us too excited to soon.

The lower end of the film making community will just have to wait humbly.

Terry Frechette wrote:Please keep this on topic. Any discussions of the Pocket Cinema Camera should be in a different thread. Helps new readers looking for this thread to be about the Production Camera 4K update.

Thanks

Terry

like the one you just locked for no apparent reason ?

+1

Well said Mark , after all we are all coming here because we are excited and like their products
and most of us are independent / indie filmmakers (I think).
BMD gave us BMCC ,no shortages ,same will happen soon with others.


Missed deadline ,sure well Canon 7D gave us audio levels 3 years later, ML (hacked)gave us RAW from Canon BUILT IN 2008,even so didn't stop filmmakers to shoot Hollywood flicks with h.264.

We need to keep it real as well, fair is fair ... they will deliver

(do you think big companies that are selling similar cameras for 20K would be happy about BMD releasing this cameras and not making it hard for them to get through the pipeline )?

Guys, come on! Wake up!

I´ve been kind of a ghost user but this I had to express.

They reduced the price and if they shipped the 4K, they would sell just a few units of the BMCC 2.5k. It's marketing strategy, financial strategy to hold on the 4K for as long as they can so people still buy the 2.5k and then they ship the 4K so many who bought the previous model will surelly update for the new kid on the block, rising the sales. It just makes a lot more sense. All other companies does that. Canon, for example, is giving us pratically the same camera (DSLR for video) for over 4 years. They just change a buttons positions, put a new name and sell a lot with a lot os customers updating theirs already the same tech cameras.

BMD is desorganized? Yes, we all know they are, but not to the point of having delays in sensors or firmware retouchs. They were a bit desorganized when they announced the 4k with the 2.5k just starting to ship worldwide, therefore losing a higher sales strategy. Then they dropped the price so they could sell the amount stored - and not so much desired anymore after 4k statment - of the 2.5k more easily and only after that will release the 4k to continue selling good.

Their luck is that they have no competition so far, so they could make their mistakes and the lost is not that much at all. If they had competition, of course they'd probably broken right now.

Well, despite the fact of that "not good" way to conduct business, their cameras (flaws appart) are a very nice piece of equipment and really gave us "small" filmmakers the opportunity to compete with the big guys, if we're talented enough. The camera is just the tool to help you/us get there. We just wish things were conducted a bit differently, so the company would be a killer.

Regards.

pixhershko wrote:like the one you just locked for no apparent reason ?

the reason is the cam is more than one week away. Topic isn't true.
Lock the thread and it will disappear slowly.

EDIT.
you are talking about blooming thread. Incredible.

[quote="Grant Petty"]

When we built cameras from them we saw some big differences in the images between these production sensors vs the pre production samples we originally received. What this means is that we have been working over the last few weeks to replace a bunch of the software in the camera that handles the sensor calibration and image processing.

...this is incredible !! A sensor is not a "banana", is a piece of high tecnology ! How is possible that a sensor maker industry is not able to reproduce the same kind of sensors of pre-production !!

The same "sad" situation with sensor of BMCC...speechless...

silvio bonomi

Grant Petty wrote:Hi,

I just want to give you an update on the 4K camera.

As we mentioned a few weeks ago, we received the production sensors much later than we expected. When we built cameras from them we saw some big differences in the images between these production sensors vs the pre production samples we originally received. What this means is that we have been working over the last few weeks to replace a bunch of the software in the camera that handles the sensor calibration and image processing.

It's taking a bit longer than we expected to do this and we think its going to take about 3 to 4 weeks more to get those changes done and to get the QA process completed before we can start shipping.

We apologize for the delays from the original promised date. Ultimately, image calibration is a very important step so we want to make sure this is done properly before shipping.


Regards,

Grant Petty
Blackmagic Design

Thanks for the update, realy wanted to know how it was going. Take the time you guys need to take, but don't exagerate big time. The important thing is that we receive a great product; meanwhile, I'll stick around with the 2.5K version I already have. I crave this camera so much.

I'll tell you what's consistent . . . it's the same parade of fools unable to pass on an opportunity to take a swing at someone they don't know for no particular reason other than they are an . . .

You actually get an update but then chide the head of the company, or make remarks like, oh okay then you only have 4 more weeks. Really?

Then of course there's the dumbass questions that if you're capable of thought should already know the answer to . . . but will summarily post to "the other" forum in duplicate.

Any yes, I know I'm going to get banned for this (my existing warning was for climbing on someone who was beating up Christine for no particular reason. There are some really fine folks on here but, for whatever reason, we're stuck with a handful of a-holes that monopolize the forum without ever contributing a singular positive comment and I'm sick of it.

Get a life.

Grant Petty wrote:Hi,

I just want to give you an update on the 4K camera.


We apologize for the delays from the original promised date. Ultimately, image calibration is a very important step so we want to make sure this is done properly before shipping.


Regards,

Grant Petty
Blackmagic Design

Thank you Grant for the update, I know you guys are working hard with 4K camera.


I read on Digital Bolex forum that the image/sensor calibration was the most difficult and time consuming part in development.

Take the time you need, I believe it will be a great camera when it's finished.

Grant Petty wrote:Hi,

I just want to give you an update on the 4K camera. ...

Thanks for the update, Grant.

Not the news any of us was hoping to hear, but I appreciate your keeping the lines of communication open. Cheers.

-

Hi,

I just want to give you an update on the 4K camera.

About time!!! Take a note from RED who is pretty consistent with their communications to their user base.

As we mentioned a few weeks ago, we received the production sensors much later than we expected. When we built cameras from them we saw some big differences in the images between these production sensors vs the pre production samples we originally received.

Tell your supplier you want a discount for messing up specs, or to make things right...not to hard to do. Its done all the time.

What this means is that we have been working over the last few weeks to replace a bunch of the software in the camera that handles the sensor calibration and image processing.

Ship the camera, send a firmware update to fix this. Problem solved.

It's taking a bit longer than we expected to do this and we think its going to take about 3 to 4 weeks more to get those changes done and to get the QA process completed before we can start shipping.

so its 3 to 4 weeks. Today is Sept 4th, October 2nd is when that time frame is up, and then you QA test which is going to be another 4 weeks, then if all is good you ship if not you QA more so add another 3 weeks and that puts us at November...then once they ship about two weeks....December 4th...im sorry but this is one customer who is cancelling his order.

Grant, and all other Blackmagic staff.

Just release a frame when you start shipping them.
People just want to see what it's actually about.
Including me.
Since i put down a preorder.

You please take your own time to make the camera.
We expect, it will be a perfect one in it's own niche...........
I think you, the BMD people are sincere and definitely you will succeed.....
Go on.........

Grant Petty wrote:... When we built cameras from them we saw some big differences in the images between these production sensors vs the pre production samples we originally received. What this means is that we have been working over the last few weeks to replace a bunch of the software in the camera that handles the sensor calibration and image processing...

Grant Petty
Blackmagic Design

Thanks for the detailed update, Grant.

I can only speculate that the production sensors received are an improvement on the pre-production sensors and therefore BMD has accepted the changes and taken on the effort of updating their software to use the production sensors in spite of what must have been a great disappointment that shipping of the BMPC4K would have to be delayed. That would be the silver lining in the dark cloud.

Until the next update or when the cameras are ready and footage is posted, I am going to wonder about the details of those improvements. I'll wonder if they were improvements to merely meet the published specifications, particularly the 12 stops of dynamic range, or if they are improvements that will exceed our original expectations. In a sense BMD is ordering sensors off the shelf from a company that produces various sensors for various purposes, not solely intended for cinema cameras. Again I would speculate that BMD may have requested some changes to the off the shelf sensors to make them unique and more suitable for their purposes.

There is such a good story here about the genesis of these cameras beginning the year before NAB 2012. I hope someone currently under an NDA with BMD has already begun their behind the scenes documentary or feature narrative film. No shortage of dramatic material and the ending still awaits us.

Rick Lang
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

I am trilled to shoot with my ordered 4K , but I am glad Black Magic takes the time to deliver a good product. I rather have to wait some more time instead having a camera that I would have to sent back with an issue So Black Magic , take your time and make it a stunning camera !., I only hope the delivered sensors are not from less quality of what was ordered by BM

Grant Petty wrote:Hi,

I just want to give you an update on the 4K camera.

As we mentioned a few weeks ago, we received the production sensors much later than we expected. When we built cameras from them we saw some big differences in the images between these production sensors vs the pre production samples we originally received. What this means is that we have been working over the last few weeks to replace a bunch of the software in the camera that handles the sensor calibration and image processing.

It's taking a bit longer than we expected to do this and we think its going to take about 3 to 4 weeks more to get those changes done and to get the QA process completed before we can start shipping.

We apologize for the delays from the original promised date. Ultimately, image calibration is a very important step so we want to make sure this is done properly before shipping.


Regards,

Grant Petty
Blackmagic Design

Thank you Grant,
I for one want to just say that you guys do a great job and provide spectacular products. I am sure delays are as frustrating for you as anyone, as you additionally have to weather all of the disappointment (and sometimes verbal vitriol) of your customers when you can't meet the shipping deadlines you hope for.
I keep in perspective the enormity of what you have already accomplished, truly another revolution in the history of digital film, giving us so much at such an incredibly competitive cost structure. You are truly part of the democratization of film making. I suppose we have become spoiled by the pace of technology and the instant gratification it brings. Sometimes having to wait for something to have it be right is the best lesson of all. Perhaps in some way many of us don't understand, that will make us better film makers in the long run, certainly if not more patient ones.
As Robert Heinlein said in Stranger in A Strange Land, (a wise man) doesn't wait for fulfillment...Waiting is Fulfillment.

Just letting you know I am an extremely satisfied Black Magic customer, delays and all. Every time I mount a lens to my BMCC and view the amazing results, fire up Da Vinci Resolve or analyze my levels in Ultra Scope, I still can't believe how much product value I have been given for so little.
Thank you and all of your teams across the world for a great job!

I'm in.
This is the camera I've been waiting for.
I totally loved the Hyperdeck Shuttle and appreciate the Blackmagic philosophy of empowering the masses with great tools for film making.
I really identify with the Blackmagic team.
As an amateur web developer, I have worked on projects to innovate for clients, under intense pressure to deliver the impossible, yesterday and received a mixture of complaint and gratitude which made me wonder whether it was worth the effort, but the few, in the know, appreciated what i have done, and for them, I kept doing it, though the stress has taken its toll on my willingness to suffer ungrateful fools.
I'm investing in in one of these gems and am along for the ride.

Patrick Finnegan wrote:

Grant Petty wrote:Hi,

I just want to give you an update on the 4K camera.

As we mentioned a few weeks ago, we received the production sensors much later than we expected. When we built cameras from them we saw some big differences in the images between these production sensors vs the pre production samples we originally received. What this means is that we have been working over the last few weeks to replace a bunch of the software in the camera that handles the sensor calibration and image processing.

It's taking a bit longer than we expected to do this and we think its going to take about 3 to 4 weeks more to get those changes done and to get the QA process completed before we can start shipping.

We apologize for the delays from the original promised date. Ultimately, image calibration is a very important step so we want to make sure this is done properly before shipping.


Regards,

Grant Petty
Blackmagic Design

Thank you Grant,
I for one want to just say that you guys do a great job and provide spectacular products. I am sure delays are as frustrating for you as anyone, as you additionally have to weather all of the disappointment (and sometimes verbal vitriol) of your customers when you can't meet the shipping deadlines you hope for.
I keep in perspective the enormity of what you have already accomplished, truly another revolution in the history of digital film, giving us so much at such an incredibly competitive cost structure. You are truly part of the democratization of film making. I suppose we have become spoiled by the pace of technology and the instant gratification it brings. Sometimes having to wait for something to have it be right is the best lesson of all. Perhaps in some way many of us don't understand, that will make us better film makers in the long run, certainly if not more patient ones.
As Robert Heinlein said in Stranger in A Strange Land, (a wise man) doesn't wait for fulfillment...Waiting is Fulfillment.

Just letting you know I am an extremely satisfied Black Magic customer, delays and all. Every time I mount a lens to my BMCC and view the amazing results, fire up Da Vinci Resolve or analyze my levels in Ultra Scope, I still can't believe how much product value I have been given for so little.
Thank you and all of your teams across the world for a great job!

Hear, Hear! And Heinlein rocked as well.

comet48 wrote:Sony just announced a 4K for $4,500. Posted it, but it was deleted. Delivery October- this year. Perhaps this can put some pressure on BM!
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2013/09/ ... k-in-4-5k/

Now things started to get interesting... Now we gonna get the prize of this competition that's just started. Great!

comet48 wrote:Sony just announced a 4K for $4,500. Posted it, but it was deleted. Delivery October- this year. Perhaps this can put some pressure on BM!

XAVC-S 4:2:0 MP4, non-interchangeable lens, 1/2.3" sensor

How would this put pressure on BM?

Ulysses wrote:Guys, come on! Wake up!

I´ve been kind of a ghost user but this I had to express.

They reduced the price and if they shipped the 4K, they would sell just a few units of the BMCC 2.5k. It's marketing strategy, financial strategy to hold on the 4K for as long as they can so people still buy the 2.5k and then they ship the 4K so many who bought the previous model will surelly update for the new kid on the block, rising the sales. It just makes a lot more sense. All other companies does that. Canon, for example, is giving us pratically the same camera (DSLR for video) for over 4 years. They just change a buttons positions, put a new name and sell a lot with a lot os customers updating theirs already the same tech cameras.

BMD is desorganized? Yes, we all know they are, but not to the point of having delays in sensors or firmware retouchs. They were a bit desorganized when they announced the 4k with the 2.5k just starting to ship worldwide, therefore losing a higher sales strategy. Then they dropped the price so they could sell the amount stored - and not so much desired anymore after 4k statment - of the 2.5k more easily and only after that will release the 4k to continue selling good.

Their luck is that they have no competition so far, so they could make their mistakes and the lost is not that much at all. If they had competition, of course they'd probably broken right now.

Well, despite the fact of that "not good" way to conduct business, their cameras (flaws appart) are a very nice piece of equipment and really gave us "small" filmmakers the opportunity to compete with the big guys, if we're talented enough. The camera is just the tool to help you/us get there. We just wish things were conducted a bit differently, so the company would be a killer.

Regards.

That's exactly what it is going on right now......I still don't know why people doesn't see this.
+1000 my friend

comet48 wrote:Sony just announced a 4K for $4,500. Posted it, but it was deleted. Delivery October- this year. Perhaps this can put some pressure on BM!
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2013/09/ ... k-in-4-5k/

The post was deleted because it has nothing to do with the BMD product line. This cam looks interesting for event people, but with its small sensor and .mp4 format for the footage, it's not much interest to me as a filmmaker. I'm sure plenty others feel the same way. What it does have is proper video camera functions.

Is it 4K we're excited about or other features that produce a high quality cinematic image?