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Re: 12K in the hands of customers

PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 11:14 am
by jallen0
Another review. For some reason in this one they didn't throw the camera around or open it up in the grass.


Re: 12K in the hands of customers

PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 12:01 pm
by jallen0
As another note I did see in a facebook posting where the moire pattern issue popped up again t all resolutions. Their solution was either move the camera closer or away. Or add an OLPF filter to it.

Re: 12K in the hands of customers

PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 7:02 pm
by Michael Sandiford
jallen0 wrote:Another review. For some reason in this one they didn't throw the camera around or open it up in the grass.


Should have just done the vid as we note things about 2 cameras. There's no versus in it as they end up being not committal.

Re: 12K in the hands of customers

PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 12:14 pm
by Paul Jonathan
Finally some real scientific testing by CML's Geoff Boyle https://cinematography.net/BMD-12K.html

I believe that this camera is comfortably usable from -3 to + 4.5 stops with very simple grading and a little noise reduction on the underexposed shots.


For most real world applications thats plenty. What's more concerning is the super noisy red channel and the color shift in the highlights. The color shift seems to be fixable in a future color science perhaps?

He also commented on CML that the aliasing visible here he never encountered in real life situations and that he likes the camera's color response. In my opinion that's much more important than sharpness or resolution

Re: 12K in the hands of customers

PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 12:22 pm
by John Brawley
Paul Jonathan wrote:
He also commented on CML that the aliasing visible here he never encountered in real life situations and that he likes the camera's color response. In my opinion that's much more important than sharpness or resolution


I'm wondering of the moire isn't processing related.

I shot this some time ago comparing two lenses, but it's also a GREAT moire test, but I'm not seeing the same kinds of issues.



JB

Re: 12K in the hands of customers

PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 12:51 pm
by Paul Jonathan
Interesting video, thanks JB, somehow I missed that one!

Yes certainly there have been some workflow kinks with that camera. What exactly would you suggest happened here? It seems like the moire changes with the F-Stop of the lens, it's more pronounced at T5.6 and T8 then T22, which would make sense, since that lens is likely not performing very well at T22.

Re: 12K in the hands of customers

PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 12:58 pm
by John Brawley
Paul Jonathan wrote:Interesting video, thanks JB, somehow I missed that one!

Yes certainly there have been some workflow kinks with that camera. What exactly would you suggest happened here? It seems like the moire changes with the F-Stop of the lens, it's more pronounced at T5.6 and T8 then T22, which would make sense, since that lens is likely not performing very well at T22.


I only just made it “public” now.

I shot it a long time ago but it was done in a very rushed way (you can see me moving around reflected in the surface)

I hadn’t shared it because it wasn’t a fair lens comparison. (It was actually meant to me a lens comparison)

However the resolution patches SHOULD be good indicators of moire threshold.

I’m wondering if it’s POST related.

JB

Re: 12K in the hands of customers

PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 1:25 pm
by Uli Plank
Paul Jonathan wrote:It seems like the moire changes with the F-Stop of the lens, it's more pronounced at T5.6 and T8 then T22, which would make sense, since that lens is likely not performing very well at T22.


Well, that points to the lens, since at f22 every lens is well into diffraction on such small photosites.
Most lenses have their best resolution around f5.6 to 8.

Re: 12K in the hands of customers

PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 1:32 pm
by Wayne Steven
Paul Jonathan wrote:Finally some real scientific testing by CML's Geoff Boyle https://cinematography.net/BMD-12K.html

I believe that this camera is comfortably usable from -3 to + 4.5 stops with very simple grading and a little noise reduction on the underexposed shots.


For most real world applications thats plenty. What's more concerning is the super noisy red channel and the color shift in the highlights. The color shift seems to be fixable in a future color science perhaps?

He also commented on CML that the aliasing visible here he never encountered in real life situations and that he likes the camera's color response. In my opinion that's much more important than sharpness or resolution



In the real world most things are pastel, which is going help interpolation. You are going get different affects from largely pastel to primaries.

The structure of a sensor can interfere with light coming from faster apertures. Sony put a lot of effort into microlensing.

Colours can shift with brightness, and if it eliminates true colour you might not be able to get back to the original final, which may not matter anyway. One of the sensor technology I watch has colour constancy and a range of over 27 stops, maybe 31 stops single exposure. Was being used on a dash cam. Pity nobody ever approached them to do a cinema sensor. In this one, I'm seeing miscolouration when boosted a lot of skin tones, in that forest sample. I'd rather have some complementary colours as well, than that many white pixels. I had been trying to figure out a scheme using several hundred spectral bands for colour, because I identified a weakness in absolute colour reproduction and interpolation with Bayer. So, just 5 bands plus white would be great.

Re: 12K in the hands of customers

PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 2:18 pm
by John Paines
Paul Jonathan wrote:Finally some real scientific testing by CML's Geoff Boyle https://cinematography.net/BMD-12K.html


I didn't find the comments you referred to, but his description on the linked page indicates he used ACEScct. As far as I know, there's no ACEs/RCM support for the 12K/Gen 5 footage at present in Resolve, unless maybe it was added in the beta which was just released. But that probably couldn't have happened in time for this test.

In which case, the 12K footage would have been incorrectly transformed(?)

Re: 12K in the hands of customers

PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 6:12 pm
by timbutt2
Paul Jonathan wrote:Finally some real scientific testing by CML's Geoff Boyle https://cinematography.net/BMD-12K.html

I believe that this camera is comfortably usable from -3 to + 4.5 stops with very simple grading and a little noise reduction on the underexposed shots.


For most real world applications thats plenty. What's more concerning is the super noisy red channel and the color shift in the highlights. The color shift seems to be fixable in a future color science perhaps?

He also commented on CML that the aliasing visible here he never encountered in real life situations and that he likes the camera's color response. In my opinion that's much more important than sharpness or resolution

Interesting... I'll say that -3 to +4.5 is definitely workable for many productions. I did find it interesting that that color shift happened at the higher exposures that were pulled back. Also interesting was the aliasing became more apparent at more over exposed shots, which has me wonder if it could be aperture related.

Listen if I'm spending 10K on a camera then I have no issue with spending just under 500 for an OLPF. And, if spending 10K on a camera then spending a couple Ks on really good glass to match that sensor seems to make sense. Since I have a contact with some Cooke S4s I'd love to rent a 12K sometime and play with it with the Cooke S4s.

Re: 12K in the hands of customers

PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 12:07 am
by Ryan Earl
Has anyone posted this one? I don't see any issues with the cat images or the hairy object in front of the cat. It's pretty creepy how real that cat looks. The internet loves cats!


Re: 12K in the hands of customers

PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 12:17 am
by timbutt2
Ryan Earl wrote:Has anyone posted this one? I don't see any issues with the cat images or the hairy object in front of the cat. It's pretty creepy how real that cat looks. The internet loves cats!

Mark Wyatt posted that on the Facebook Group. Sadly I can only see it in HDR on my phone currently since YouTube still doesn’t support 4K HDR on the AppleTV 4K.

Yes, the internet loves cats. Can’t wait for the election to be over so the internet can return to cat videos.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Re: 12K in the hands of customers

PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 12:20 am
by Dmitry Shijan
John Brawley wrote:
Paul Jonathan wrote:
He also commented on CML that the aliasing visible here he never encountered in real life situations and that he likes the camera's color response. In my opinion that's much more important than sharpness or resolution


I'm wondering of the moire isn't processing related.

I shot this some time ago comparing two lenses, but it's also a GREAT moire test, but I'm not seeing the same kinds of issues.



JB


Some moire is there. It also depends of grading. Your examples are less contrast and better preserve dynamic range, so moire is also less visible and less saturated than in Epic Light Media video.
Image

Re: 12K in the hands of customers

PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 12:34 am
by CaptainHook
John Paines wrote:I didn't find the comments you referred to, but his description on the linked page indicates he used ACEScct. As far as I know, there's no ACEs/RCM support for the 12K/Gen 5 footage at present in Resolve, unless maybe it was added in the beta which was just released. But that probably couldn't have happened in time for this test.

In which case, the 12K footage would have been incorrectly transformed(?)


The Blackmagic RAW SDK support ACES out of the box, so when you select an ACES colour managed timeline in Resolve the colourspace/gamma options in the RAW panel get greyed out because Resolve is selecting the appropriate decode options from the Blackmagic RAW SDK automatically in the background. So you don't need IDTs etc with the Blackmagic RAW SDK and you don't select an input transform in Resolve as its all handled. This is also true for cDNG and other RAW formats. Where you need IDTs is when manually managing transforms for "video" codecs etc. I advised Geoff on this a few weeks ago so it should be correct.

timbutt2 wrote:
Paul Jonathan wrote:
I believe that this camera is comfortably usable from -3 to + 4.5 stops with very simple grading and a little noise reduction on the underexposed shots.

For most real world applications thats plenty.

Interesting... I'll say that -3 to +4.5 is definitely workable for many productions.

For reference here's some ranges he determined in 2018 compared to the 7.5 total he just gave the 12K.

• URSA Mini 12K = 7.5 (-3 to +4.5)

• Alexa Mini = 7 (-2 to +5)
• UMP = 5.5 (-2 to +3.5)
• C200 = 6 (-2.5 to +3.5)
• C700 = 7 (-3.5 to +3.5)
• Varicam = 6 (-2 to +4)
• Red Gemini = 6.5 (-3 to +3.5)
• Red Monstro = 5 (-2.5 to +2.5)
• Sony Venice = 6.5 (-2.5 to +4)

https://cinematography.net/CineRant/201 ... aluations/

Re: 12K in the hands of customers

PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:33 am
by John Brawley
Dmitry Shijan wrote:
John Brawley wrote:
Some moire is there. It also depends of grading. Your examples are less contrast and better preserve dynamic range, so moire is also less visible and less saturated than in Epic Light Media video.
Image


You found moire. (But not colour moire)

On the 400% enlargement.

Of a zone plate.

Pretty sure almost any camera would be doing something similar even with an OLPF.

By any standard on this torture test the camera performed “better” than what other tests have shown up indicating. I think there more going on.

JB

Re: 12K in the hands of customers

PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:54 am
by Dmitry Shijan
It is visible with less enlargement as well. But i agree that it is just useless to peep at 12K at 1:1 pixel size or shoot 12K and downscale it in Resolve. The real life scenario for this camera is 12K sensor downscaled in-camera to 4K or to HD (ok, maybe 6K for those who need some framing in post for 4K delivery), so the tests should be done like this.

Re: 12K in the hands of customers

PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 3:09 am
by Uli Plank
With zone plates and a good lens you can provoke color moiré on just about every Bayer sensor. I can see that with a Red or an Alexa too, which are both using rather conservative OLPFs. Sony was notorious for massive moiré, even if they had OLPFs, but from what I hear the Venice is doing better (I didn't test that one myself). No manufacturer would try to completely filter that out with a Bayer sensor, since it would reduce perceived resolution too much, which is mainly based on luminance.

I'm very impressed what BM achieved here with their new sensor, showing next to no color moiré in the test charts. And then, we can clearly see that only the best lenses are provoking some luma moiré. In John's test, only one of the two lenses is clearly showing it, the other is too soft to trigger obvious moiré.

I'd doubt it would be any problem with real-world footage,and, believe me, I'm critical regarding moiré. I hated it on my old BMPCC, I could see that it was far less with our UMP 4.6K with more than twice the resolution, but I still got us a RAWlite for that one. I don't think I'd need an OLPF for an UMP 12K, even if I'd feed the light from my Zeiss 60mm macro, which is razor sharp.

@John: Would you mind telling us which lenses those were?

Re: 12K in the hands of customers

PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 3:37 am
by Wayne Steven
Ryan Earl wrote:Has anyone posted this one? I don't see any issues with the cat images or the hairy object in front of the cat. It's pretty creepy how real that cat looks. The internet loves cats!




Thanks Ryan, that's worth watching.

Re: 12K in the hands of customers

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 3:08 pm
by jallen0
Sigh. The latest video is out from Epic Light Media.


It's a shame that this is appears to be one of the only places where you can find out information about this camera online. Mine is still showing on backorder, and I honestly have no clue about so many things, but I honestly think I could be more unbiased about showcasing the features and concerns about this camera.

Oh and maybe some of his issues resulted in throwing the camera around in the grass and trying to take a flamethrower to it.

Re: 12K in the hands of customers

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 3:18 pm
by John Brawley
jallen0 wrote:Sigh. The latest video is out from Epic Light Media.


It's a shame that this is appears to be one of the only places where you can find out information about this camera online. Mine is still showing on backorder, and I honestly have no clue about so many things, but I honestly think I could be more unbiased about showcasing the features and concerns about this camera.

Oh and maybe some of his issues resulted in throwing the camera around in the grass and trying to take a flamethrower to it.


It's painful to watch this.

Clearly they made this to be entertaining. To draw comment.

But making emphatic judgements like "NEVER SHOOT 4K" and then immediately contradicting that statement with the revelation that they themselves didn't know what they were doing and needed to re-examine their compression settings.

Posting a +3 stop over exposed scene and saying to shoot the camera overexposed because it cleans up the noise.... I mean that's just the stupidest fake hack they could put out there.

What a shame they're getting so much attention, because most of it is marginal advise at best.

JB

Re: 12K in the hands of customers

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 3:43 pm
by jallen0
Here is Armando's video. I think there was a false assumption made in the beginning when Epic Light stated that there was no difference in the compression ratios so they decided to film at 12:1. I am also unsure about the lens they used as it was stated in the other video after the fact that thee needed to be a bug fix for that lens on the 12K.


Re: 12K in the hands of customers

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 3:49 pm
by jallen0
OK, 8 minutes into the video Armando then shows the disclaimer that maybe 12:1 has some issues. WTF?

Blackmagic, Armando has a great reputation concerting his reviews and I would ask that you send someone out to him that understands the 12K much better that Epic Light does. Let's create a more balance set of comparisons.

Re: 12K in the hands of customers

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 3:53 pm
by MishaEngel
When Epic Light Media wants to see some noise, they should shoot with an ARRI camera.
When they don't want to see noise the FX9 or some other camera with noise reduction inside is a better choice for their workflow.

We just have to wait a little longer for better reviews (cined, newsshooter, etc..).

Re: 12K in the hands of customers

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:29 pm
by Note Suwanchote
jallen0 wrote:Sigh. The latest video is out from Epic Light Media.


It's a shame that this is appears to be one of the only places where you can find out information about this camera online. Mine is still showing on backorder, and I honestly have no clue about so many things, but I honestly think I could be more unbiased about showcasing the features and concerns about this camera.

Oh and maybe some of his issues resulted in throwing the camera around in the grass and trying to take a flamethrower to it.
There’s a lot of misinformation in this video. This combined with Armando’s video is just spreading them even more.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Re: 12K in the hands of customers

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:36 pm
by Kholi Hicks
should have stopped watching at “we were able to convert the camera to 400 iso in post”

But I instead stopped watching at “you cannot shoot all compression ratios at 4K”

You shoot 18:1 at 4K and expect to be able to punch in 400 percent. .

Sorry. Zero credibility either which way. But their audience is dslr shooters and armchair filmmakers anyway so have at it.

Re: 12K in the hands of customers

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:20 pm
by Mark Foster
they are idiots at epic

Re: 12K in the hands of customers

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:11 pm
by Wayne Steven
It's a shame the industry has so many random logic (cluster f...s). Makes it impossible to deal with.

But, a starting point of a good idea was posted here, about flying somebody out to school them. Why doesn't BM do an engineer guided instructional video on how to use and do post with the cameras for good results? You could package that with how to test, perform some tests, and post it out there for reviewers (and potential owners). Wouldn't cost much, and would be good for sales.

Along with instructions not to throw it in wet grass, use flsme throwers, or throw it off cliffs, so we can see randoms do some funny endurance videos, just to defy that (you got to see the comical aspect of that :) ).

Re: 12K in the hands of customers

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:29 pm
by Wayne Steven
Anyway, on their offer to sell that camera, after it's been jarred around, rolled in wet grass, and potentially light crisped by a flame thrower. They could sell it to me for -$12k, and I could use that $12k to buy a new 12k and maybe a lens! :F

Re: 12K in the hands of customers

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:32 pm
by Wayne Steven
BTW, on their great colour rendition they love, I have never met a flat coloured orange black man in my life....

Re: 12K in the hands of customers

PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:40 am
by victor_cuz
I don't get it, why everybody criticize Epic Light Media. They clearly stated "We don't know what we are doing". Being informed about that, we should watch this without serious regard.
Just imagine if "DigitalRev TV" decides to make a durability test with Ursa 12K, putting a camera on the grass won't even be noticed, after you watch this

Re: 12K in the hands of customers

PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:57 pm
by Oyvind Fiksdal
CaptainHook wrote:
• URSA Mini 12K = 7.5 (-3 to +4.5)

• Alexa Mini = 7 (-2 to +5)
• UMP = 5.5 (-2 to +3.5)
• C200 = 6 (-2.5 to +3.5)
• C700 = 7 (-3.5 to +3.5)
• Varicam = 6 (-2 to +4)
• Red Gemini = 6.5 (-3 to +3.5)
• Red Monstro = 5 (-2.5 to +2.5)
• Sony Venice = 6.5 (-2.5 to +4)

https://cinematography.net/CineRant/201 ... aluations/


This makes total sense to me. I also wonder if these excellent numbers is the reason we see the smooth transition between light and dark in many of the test footage out there. Its subliminal, but notable. Like if there is soft light added to the scenes, even though there is not. Thanks for the info

Re: 12K in the hands of customers

PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:31 pm
by lost_soul
I have more issues with Armando's video than I do Epic Lights. A lot of the comparisons were just non-sense. But some of the things the Epic Light guy said in Armando's video were just bizarre. Th R5 is a great camera for serious film makers? Have we forgotten the over heating issues? The 12K produces a stunning picture that you will never be able to see with any monitor? Then how do you know it produces a stunning image? Mind meld? And point me to where BMD ever said the 12K was perfect.

The bottom line is if you don't want teething pains don't buy a bleeding edge camera on day one. Rushing out to buy the 12K and then selling it off a few weeks later tells us far more about the owner than it does about the camera.

Also with these online streaming services check what resolution they are sending you the video in. If your watching the tests in 720p they are kind of meaningless.

Re: 12K in the hands of customers

PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:36 am
by Wayne Steven
Well, thank goodness it's not here, sounds like the sort of person who would argue for no valid reason. Which I've just had enough of. If you look closely at the work of that sort of person...which I deliberately avoid getting into here because it's off subject, they can't even accept what's on subject, and they have better knowledge of those things.

I can see what he means, that you can't see 12k pixels/or monitors. But, the little field of view we use is below 8k, but a full field of view would be three times across, so it would be below 24k, but that's basically a vr display. I was in communication years back, with a company with 16k vr displays, doing a 32k design. The 12k is still 3x acceptable 4k screens. I don't like the uneven division into 8k, but at 4k it's even. :)

There are higher resolutions than 720p. But they can publish stills, and cut out a 720p subframe and display that in video to show image quality, and people can stand 9 times back if they wish, to make it similar size to a real life display. Pixel peeping is really great though, blow up to see if it is cleaner and nicer than the competition, becomes more obvious. Then view full screen, and see if it looks nice anyway.

Re: 12K in the hands of customers

PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:03 pm
by Travis Hodgkinson
Tim Schumann wrote:Mark's post earlier regarding shimming was correct.

On the URSA Mini Pro 12K if you are changing between PL and EF you do not need to change shims.

To be honest on other URSA Mini Pro cameras, once you have added the 0.1 shim you can leave it in... The only reason why you would need to remove the 0.1 when changing back to EF is if you have a third party EF lens that won't hit infinity, or a cine EF lens that isn't hitting its marks. Otherwise leaving the 0.1 in when changing back to EF on a G1 or G2 is fine timbutt2.


I just wanted to get some clarity on this, if that's alright Tim.
The URSA 12K comes with PL, am I understanding correctly that if we change it to an EF mount, we do "not" need to add or remove any shims. We get ours in the next week or two and really want to be sure :)

Thanks

Re: 12K in the hands of customers

PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:15 pm
by Tim Schumann
Travis Hodgkinson wrote:The URSA 12K comes with PL, am I understanding correctly that if we change it to an EF mount, we do "not" need to add or remove any shims. We get ours in the next week or two and really want to be sure :)
Correct... You just remove the 5 screws, remove the mount and then unscrew the PL light baffle.
Then drop in the EF mount and use the 4 screws that come with it and tighten it using a 2mm hex.

Re: 12K in the hands of customers

PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:01 am
by Travis Hodgkinson
Great, thanks mate.

Re: 12K in the hands of customers

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:27 pm
by timbutt2
In all the discussion about moire and aliasing... I was watching a movie shot on film on Netflix this last weekend. Moneyball (2011) and noticed moire on a shirt during one scene. I remember seeing the movie in theaters back in 2011 and I swore the movie was shot on film. I double checked IMDb, and it was indeed 35mm film. So it's definitely the film transfer, combined with the compressed export, and combined with the streaming encoding that's causing this.

What this means is that how the footage is handled in post production can cause moire to show in the resulting image even if it wasn't captured by the recording format. I'm very curious about the post-processing workflow that ELM used because they could have accidentally introduced moire without realizing it.

Re: 12K in the hands of customers

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:03 pm
by antoine
It's easy to introduce Moire (/ high resolution artifacts) when scaling down frames (and I agree it could also come from the analog to digital transfer). What resolution did you watch the movie in ?

Re: 12K in the hands of customers

PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:02 am
by timbutt2
antoine wrote:It's easy to introduce Moire (/ high resolution artifacts) when scaling down frames (and I agree it could also come from the analog to digital transfer). What resolution did you watch the movie in ?

I watched it in HD on my MacBook Pro while in bed because I figured it was the perfect movie to fall asleep to. Stayed up for the whole movie. Of course.

Re: 12K in the hands of customers

PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:23 pm
by Jae Christensen
Travis Hodgkinson wrote:
Tim Schumann wrote:Mark's post earlier regarding shimming was correct.

On the URSA Mini Pro 12K if you are changing between PL and EF you do not need to change shims.

To be honest on other URSA Mini Pro cameras, once you have added the 0.1 shim you can leave it in... The only reason why you would need to remove the 0.1 when changing back to EF is if you have a third party EF lens that won't hit infinity, or a cine EF lens that isn't hitting its marks. Otherwise leaving the 0.1 in when changing back to EF on a G1 or G2 is fine timbutt2.


I just wanted to get some clarity on this, if that's alright Tim.
The URSA 12K comes with PL, am I understanding correctly that if we change it to an EF mount, we do "not" need to add or remove any shims. We get ours in the next week or two and really want to be sure :)

Thanks


I just got mine lastnight thanks to note. I made a video on how i swapped pl to ef if you want to watch it.


Re: 12K in the hands of customers

PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:01 pm
by jallen0
Great video, thanks for making it.

Re: 12K in the hands of customers

PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:35 pm
by jallen0
Nice interview Craig!


Re: 12K in the hands of customers

PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:46 pm
by jallen0
Some nice looking footage of the 12K on a Crane 3S from Japan. Starts about the 2 minute mark. Not sure but is it a bit over-exposed? Looking at the lights on the storefronts.


Re: 12K in the hands of customers

PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:15 pm
by John Paines
jallen0 wrote:Some nice looking footage of the 12K on a Crane 3S from Japan. Starts about the 2 minute mark. Not sure but is it a bit over-exposed? Looking at the lights on the storefronts.



Give this guy 10 points for honesty, in revealing how badly he and the gimbal performed. It's rare you'll see a BS-free walking test like this, for obvious reasons.

Along with exposure issues, his grading leaves a whole lot to be desired. You really can't tell anything from this youtube stuff without access to the original footage, no matter how many subscribers one guy or another may have.

Re: 12K in the hands of customers

PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:43 am
by daktulus
Note Suwanchote wrote:
jallen0 wrote:Sigh. The latest video is out from Epic Light Media.

The Epic Light Guys are not funny at all. They are just annoying and embarrassing, but not in an original way. They are totally unprofessional. Nobody in their right minds would ever work with these unappealing idiots. I hope I never have to see or hear from them again.
Sorry, but I had to write this, before I throw up.

Re: 12K in the hands of customers

PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:02 am
by Wayne Steven
jallen0 wrote:Some nice looking footage of the 12K on a Crane 3S from Japan. Starts about the 2 minute mark. Not sure but is it a bit over-exposed? Looking at the lights on the storefronts.



He's trying to light for the human dynamic in the dark. As I said, it needs a few more stops dynamic range to get it more balanced. But I can tell it looks suitable (but noise is the issue) but still don't know if it's good enough for system work. It's hard to tell colour here, because it's pretty generalised in the dark with most red hues, and the red theme of the buildings. It looks great though.

Re: 12K in the hands of customers

PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:06 am
by Wayne Steven
daktulus wrote:
Note Suwanchote wrote:
jallen0 wrote:Sigh. The latest video is out from Epic Light Media.

The Epic Light Guys are not funny at all. They are just annoying and embarrassing, but not in an original way. They are totally unprofessional. Nobody in their right minds would ever work with these unappealing idiots. I hope I never have to see or hear from them again.
Sorry, but I had to write this, before I throw up.


I know, but unfortunately even here bad people get work and don't get pulled up and chucked off. If I was a client and read the stuff these post, I would be putting them way down on the list, and looking at the quality of their work, it usually follows the quality of their self alledged superior mental abilities. Very sad, very discriminatory.

Re: 12K in the hands of customers

PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 6:09 pm
by jallen0
Here is another one by that same Japanese seller.


Re: 12K in the hands of customers

PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 12:36 pm
by jallen0
I do not understand a word he says but he is showing more of the 12K than anyone else. Here is the 12K and the Crane 3S