Blackmagic Forum

Hi guys,

As promised, here’s an update on the ‘blooming’ sensor topic.

All sensors, be it CCD or CMOS, will have a ‘blooming’ effect when during severe overexposure, the pixel is over saturated and excessive charges overflow to neighbouring pixels. It just looks different depending on the sensor type.

We are not seeing this on some of our test cameras so it might be something that is calibration related. Please contact your nearest support office and we’ll run another calibration on the camera.

regards

Kristian Lam
Blackmagic Design

Thank you for the update! At last!

But as not many people will believe that this is just a calibration related problem,
it will be highly desirable to see some footage of a calibrated Pocket camera which doesn't exhibit the orb effect.

Thanks!

I think we have seen this orb problem on all of the footage out there that has footage with overexposed areas in it..

So are all these units needing re calibrating in that case?

And when you say "We are not seeing this on some of our test cameras" does that mean you acknowledge the problem and/or you have seen the issue on SOME test cameras but not ALL of them?

And based on this answer...I assume production has not been halted at all on the BMPCC?

..therefore why up to now ,close to mid september, two months after shipping was started has there only been a few dozen cameras shipped out if there are no issues as far as you are concerned?

Hello Kristian

My Pocket Camera does have the "blooming sensor issue". I stay in a small city in South Africa and my camera will probably need to be sent half way around the world to be re-calibrated.

Kristian Lam wrote:...it might be something that is calibration related.

Are you sure this will fix the problem? Admittedly, going through all this trouble for a fix that "might" work is unreasonable.

(Thanks however for your communication).

Thank you Kristian for the response. This is exactly what I needed to hear. Unfortunately this means I will be cancelling my order as I don't want to risk having to send it back for calibration.

Kristian Lam wrote:Please contact your nearest support office and we’ll run another calibration on the camera.

And how do you do that when you have purchased the camera from a retailer thousands of miles away? Will BMD be subsidising postage? Sounds like a fob off.

Thank you for the update!

Hi Kristian,

Thanks for the update. Looking forward to getting the backorder soon. As always BM customer support is A One!

Steve.

Kristian Lam wrote:We are not seeing this on some of our test cameras so it might be something that is calibration related. Please contact your nearest support office and we’ll run another calibration on the camera.

"Some"??? "Might"???? Apparently the only intelligent way to purchase a Pocket Camera is over the counter after shooting some test footage with it. Preordering (or even ordering online when they are in stock) sounds like a total gamble.

Kristian Lam wrote:Hi guys,

As promised, here’s an update on the ‘blooming’ sensor topic.

All sensors, be it CCD or CMOS, will have a ‘blooming’ effect when during severe overexposure, the pixel is over saturated and excessive charges overflow to neighbouring pixels. It just looks different depending on the sensor type.

We are not seeing this on some of our test cameras so it might be something that is calibration related. Please contact your nearest support office and we’ll run another calibration on the camera.

regards

Kristian Lam
Blackmagic Design

Thanks Kristian, request sent.

How long is this expected to take?

mhood wrote:

Preordering (or even ordering online when they are in stock) sounds like a total gamble.

Only if you do not get decent support from the distributor. All hardware can sometimes be faulty. Had a Nikon D800 with sensor hot pixel issue and the Australian distributor replaced with a brand new camera. That's what us Aussie's are about. And BM are no different.

Steve.

Imagine waiting so long though for the cam, only to get it and then find you need to send it back.. And then wait months again to get a new one!.. Or to get it recalibrated and then find the issue still exists!

The most important question: Will all new Pocket cameras have a recalibrated sensor?

Any why don´t you test if it is a calibration issue, before letting owners send their cameras back?

I don´t want to sound angry (happy BMCC owner), but this update is very disturbing.

I'm thinking BMD have quietly halted production to fix this, so all this 'recalibration' story is just they don't have to admit another failure. But that doesn't matter for us if the pocket gets a patch and works as promised.

A week ago I got news from cvl that they were going to receive cameras shortly, but after finding the orb issue that didn't happen. Now expected date shifted to 27.09!

Thanks for the update Kristian.

It seems then that all BMPCC cameras that have been shipped to customers will need re-calibrating. I've yet to see any footage that does not exhibit this odd behaviour.

Here is a quick test I just shot comparing how the BMCC EF and the BMPCC deal with the same situation with the same settings.


I guess I'll need to contact support and arrange to have my camera re-calibrated.

Thank you for the update!

Will pocket cinema cameras produced later this year be calibrated differently then before? Can we expect to see no white orbs on cameras delivered from, say, october on? Or does everyone who spots the orbs have to turn the camera in for (re)calibration himself? In other words: will you alter the manufacturing process and add some kind of additional "calibration control" in the process?

I also think that exemplary comparativ images before and after the calibration would help to regain some trust.

[edit]Thank you Adam for the comparison, that's the kind of confirmation i've been waiting for!

adamroberts wrote:Thanks for the update Kristian.

It seems then that all BMPCC cameras that have been shipped to customers will need re-calibrating. I've yet to see any footage that does not exhibit this odd behaviour.

Here is a quick test I just shot comparing how the BMCC EF and the BMPCC deal with the same situation with the same settings.

I guess I'll need to contact support and arrange to have my camera re-calibrated.

Thank you Adam for this. Perfectly demonstrates the problem. It's a great shame to be honest

Thank you for the update.
Since I already have the camera and it is indeed blooming, I am happy to send it back to fix the issue.

"...support office." So for example, customers on the U.S. would ship cameras with blooming to BMD offices in Fremont, California? And recalibration would occur there?

Thanks,

Tom

Mac Jaeger wrote:Thank you Adam for the comparison, that's the kind of confirmation i've been waiting for!

Richard Squires wrote:Thank you Adam for this. Perfectly demonstrates the problem. It's a great shame to be honest

No problem. It is a shame as the cameras really do work so well together as you can see the colour science behind the 2 camera is so well matched.

Tom Fuldner wrote:"...support office." So for example, customers on the U.S. would ship cameras with blooming to BMD offices in Fremont, California? And recalibration would occur there?

I second that question
Also, statement says it might be calibration - before everyone sending their cameras in, how confident are you that recalibration will solve the issue?

i want to see footage that re-calibrated bmpcc's.
is it true? it will be ok? really?
and how about new bmpccs?
and cannot solved with firmware update? must send it to support?

hmm, still 'unconvinced'

stip wrote:

Tom Fuldner wrote:"...support office." So for example, customers on the U.S. would ship cameras with blooming to BMD offices in Fremont, California? And recalibration would occur there?

I second that question
Also, statement says it might be calibration - before everyone sending their cameras in, how confident are you that recalibration will solve the issue?

From the focus flang issue my experience was, sending the camera to CALI as a first stop. they couldn't do it there since it was a delicate operation so off my camera went to AUSi... 5 weeks all in all but it came back fixed.

I would think it will be the same here.
By the way... went on the support section of the BMD site for the number but that section is down right now... can anyone post the support number in Cali... I want to send my camera in.

thanks.


Eli hershko

to me... in my opinion, all the cameras that are out there in users hand right now exhibit blooming.
I call anyone with a camera out there that does not have orb issue to come forward.
not a chance.
but if sending it in for "re calibration" will take care of the problem. I really don't care what they do and what they call it as long as it fixed...
Maybe they will swap sensors without telling us... who cares.
if its fixed,
its fixed.

So if it is a calibration problem they will correct this in production line, as it is been done with the 4K, right? So from a point orb-free cameras will hit the stores and the customers. Now the question: from what serial number on we can make sure a camera is already orb-free?? Will BMD let us know?

Again, words used like 'might' and 'some' are really disturbing indeed!

Rinaldo Lima wrote:So if it is a calibration problem they will correct this in production line, as it is been done with the 4K, right? So from a point orb-free cameras will hit the stores and the customers. Now the question: from what serial number on we can make sure a camera is already orb-free?? Will BMD let us know?

Again, words used like 'might' and 'some' are really disturbing indeed!

As is being a beta test bed that has revealed problems two times. Why does our team always have such a early place in the BM wait list?

I would like to see re-calibrated footage. I would also like to see the footage on their test cameras where it isn't an issue. This is such a subjective problem as we have seen some people aren't bothered by it whilst some are. And of course the Blackmagic technicians are the same people who let this out of the door in the first place. I am not saying I don't believe them, I just want to see the footage myself to make my own judgement. There are more examples we are starting to see of this issue as the cameras get into users hands, and it does seem that the issue is consistent across these units. Of course I don't know why I am still here since I cancelled the order. I am still interested in the camera, just hope I can see evidence that negates my negative opinion of it at the moment.

here is what I am thinking and I let my imagination run since I am a filmmaker after all.
lets imagine that this is more then re calibration. lets just say that this is also a sensor issue story exactly like the 4k... testing done on a prototype and manufacturing replaces the sensor on mass production without telling BMD...
now they have to issue a recall but they don't want to look like rookies for the third time...
so they call it re calibration. whatever!
who cares.
I really like this camera and if that fixes the issue... they can call it whatever they want or do the camera whatever is needed as long as it comes back fixed... I will be happy!

Theres also nothing stopping them from getting your camera, checking some calibration, and saying "Yep, it's fine. Enjoy!" and sending it back with this issue. Maybe this is just what this camera is.

Next year, when they lower the price to $699 and release Pocket Camera v2, maybe it will have a better sensor.

josephrose wrote:Theres also nothing stopping them from getting your camera, checking some calibration, and saying "Yep, it's fine. Enjoy!" and sending it back with this issue. Maybe this is just what this camera is.

Next year, when they lower the price to $699 and release Pocket Camera v2, maybe it will have a better sensor.

Now if that happens I will be really mad!!!!

Kristian Lam wrote:Hi guys,

As promised, here’s an update on the ‘blooming’ sensor topic.

All sensors, be it CCD or CMOS, will have a ‘blooming’ effect when during severe overexposure, the pixel is over saturated and excessive charges overflow to neighbouring pixels. It just looks different depending on the sensor type.

We are not seeing this on some of our test cameras so it might be something that is calibration related. Please contact your nearest support office and we’ll run another calibration on the camera.

regards

Kristian Lam
Blackmagic Design

Kristian,

Thanks for the update. I have some questions: First, if I keep my order (hoping BMD can fix the orb issue if my BMPCC has one), it has the orb issue, I send it back, I get it back, and it's still not acceptable, will I still be able to return it? There will likely be so many returns that BMD could potentially have it in their possession during the entire 30 day return policy that most resellers have. Will you work with the resellers on this if it ends up being an issue? Also who will pay for the return shipping for BMD to fix the problem if it exists? It is a factory defect and we shouldn't have to pay return shipping on a factory defect.

I would like to see footage of the 'fixed' or 'calibrated' bmpcc sensor before I send mine in.

I just received my RMA and Blackmagic didn't include shipping.

josephrose wrote:Theres also nothing stopping them from getting your camera, checking some calibration, and saying "Yep, it's fine. Enjoy!" and sending it back with this issue. Maybe this is just what this camera is.

Next year, when they lower the price to $699 and release Pocket Camera v2, maybe it will have a better sensor.

It seems josephrose summarized it all. The discussion now will be, how to avoid it? List of lenses that prone to bloom, and there it goes. The update is all disappointment at this stage. I have more questions, which will be the term for doing that, one year? Will it be included in the FAQ section? WHEN are we going to see re-calibrated footage?

Eli hershko wrote:I just received my RMA and Blackmagic didn't include shipping.

Fight it. it's a factory defect. You shouldn't have to pay.

Happens to all sensors = not our fault
Severe overexposure = user error
Doesn't happen to us = must be you
Send it to us on your dime and we may or may not fix it.

What a mess.

Still no solid statement of support behind their product.

And if you are not a member of this forum, you have no idea that it's a "calibration" issue and to send it back to maybe get your camera fixed.

I keep wanting to believe but It gets harder and harder.

a calibration might help?

i better wait for the pcc 2, because i have feeling bmd wont be able to fix the problems anytime soon.

it's such a shame that bmd ones more shows incompetence in their support - i'm still waiting for over a year to get 1080p60 capture enabled for my intensity shuttle tb.

the pcc is for many a a camera dream come true and yet bmd screws things up. if last years release of the cinema cam wasn't disaster enough, but lets repeat it with the pcc. well done bmd, well done.

Yeah they need to take responsibility for sending customers products that were defective.

Hi guys,

As promised, here’s an update on the ‘blooming’ sensor topic.

All sensors, be it CCD or CMOS, will have a ‘blooming’ effect when during severe overexposure, the pixel is over saturated and excessive charges overflow to neighbouring pixels. It just looks different depending on the sensor type.

We are not seeing this on some of our test cameras so it might be something that is calibration related. Please contact your nearest support office and we’ll run another calibration on the camera.

Could this be a little more vague and unhelpful? This isn't an update. Is it a calibration issue or not? Do you have any cameras that do not have the issue? Will sending the camera in fix the issue or not? Come on, this is ridiculous. Give us some concrete, usable information, people have work depending on these cameras working correctly, we don't have time to spend mailing it in for something that "might" work.

Eli hershko wrote:here is what I am thinking and I let my imagination run since I am a filmmaker after all.
lets imagine that this is more then re calibration. lets just say that this is also a sensor issue story exactly like the 4k... testing done on a prototype and manufacturing replaces the sensor on mass production without telling BMD...
now they have to issue a recall but they don't want to look like rookies for the third time...
so they call it re calibration. whatever!
who cares...

Great to have an active imagination! But I believe Kristian Lam when he explains it requires recalibrating the sensor without stating precisely why some test cameras don't show the issue. If it does turn out to be because the most or all of the current production sensors are indeed different than the early sensors BMD received, they likely will share that with us. Why? Because Grant Petty owned up to that very reason for recalibrating the sensors on the BMPC4K. It's very frustrating for BMD and the customers, but it happens. There is always the possibility of changes in early production as things are improved or made in higher volumes and intentionally or inadvertently the later sensors turn out to be different than the prototypes and early shipments.

A great sigh of relief when this is over and it is very unfortunate for those who are affected beyond question, but one day it will be history as you use the Pocket camera as you intended. Well, that takes a few more updates to be sure including the raw recording functionality in the next firmware update and improvement of audio capabilities, etc.

Rick Lang
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

litemakr wrote:

Hi guys,

As promised, here’s an update on the ‘blooming’ sensor topic.

All sensors, be it CCD or CMOS, will have a ‘blooming’ effect when during severe overexposure, the pixel is over saturated and excessive charges overflow to neighbouring pixels. It just looks different depending on the sensor type.

We are not seeing this on some of our test cameras so it might be something that is calibration related. Please contact your nearest support office and we’ll run another calibration on the camera.

Could this be a little more vague and unhelpful? This isn't an update. Is it a calibration issue or not? Do you have any cameras that do not have the issue? Will sending the camera in fix the issue or not? Come on, this is ridiculous. Give us some concrete, usable information, people have work depending on these cameras working correctly, we don't have time to spend mailing it in for something that "might" work.

I think it's easy to understand.
Proably the beta / test / prototype cameras have different sensor versions from sensor manufacture with different need of calibration.

This is not BMD's fault, this is the sensor manufacture who has made a mess, just like with the 4K Camera sensors.

Eli hershko wrote:I just received my RMA....

Good suggestion for a new thread, like 'I sent my Pocket in for blooming sensor recalibration and...'

I believe at this stage that BM is in a lot of trouble. They have to have lots of inventory and committed orders to suppliers. Cash flow must be an issue. Sure, they have an excellent back order situation, but now there are significant questions regarding their ability to deliver either the BMPC or the BMPCC. Cutting the price of the BMCC certainly didn't help their bottom line, but may have helped their inventory position and therefore cash flow.

The response to the blooming issue was dreadful. I can't believe anyone is going to take delivery based on that statement. And the fact that there has been no footage on the BMPC raises real questions on where it's at, especially given that they provided footage from the other cameras well in advance of shipment.

As someone who has the BMPCC on order, I find this update completely useless. If you are going to wait over a week to get your ducks in a row before making your "official" reply, you are expected to say something definitive and informative. This update sounds like it was written by a teenager. No actual facts or supportive examples, just vaguely blaming your users in a somewhat underhanded way, while making sure you have promised nothing. Add to this that people who have to ship their cameras back for a very clear defect, must do so at their OWN expense, and well, this is not what I expected from this company.

Disappointed.

Felix Steinhardt wrote:The most important question: Will all new Pocket cameras have a recalibrated sensor?

+1 can´t belive bmd dont feel the need to make this point clear as so many people waiting in preorder.

Maybe those of us who have received our cameras can make a little deal with Blackmagic: in exchange for returning our cameras, they send us a BMCC 2.5k, you know, as a loan until everything is sorted out. Then, if they manage to fix the problem, we simply return their camera and live happily ever after. However, if the problem proves to be unsolvable, well, we keep the 2.5k camera! Easy.

Off to never never land...

I have one of the BMPCC's from the first "dealer" shipments, so far I have only got "orb" blooming issue with one lens. Still testing some of the situations that have been posted. I like the latest example above, will try that test with a 1K spot, that should do the trick for specular highlights. I will use same lens, and If I get same results, back goes the camera for "re calibration". Simple as that

[You know, most warranty repairs that I have had to return equipment for was/ usually at buyers (my) expense. Return shipping on company. Both share in shipping costs, Sounds fair to me. If you return camera to retailer, you have to pay that shipping too. Seems to me, getting camera "fixed" is the important thing here. On BMCC returned, who paid that shipping? In some rare cases, return shipping is prepaid.

Christian H wrote:

litemakr wrote:

Hi guys,

As promised, here’s an update on the ‘blooming’ sensor topic.

All sensors, be it CCD or CMOS, will have a ‘blooming’ effect when during severe overexposure, the pixel is over saturated and excessive charges overflow to neighbouring pixels. It just looks different depending on the sensor type.

We are not seeing this on some of our test cameras so it might be something that is calibration related. Please contact your nearest support office and we’ll run another calibration on the camera.

Could this be a little more vague and unhelpful? This isn't an update. Is it a calibration issue or not? Do you have any cameras that do not have the issue? Will sending the camera in fix the issue or not? Come on, this is ridiculous. Give us some concrete, usable information, people have work depending on these cameras working correctly, we don't have time to spend mailing it in for something that "might" work.

I think it's easy to understand.
Proably the beta / test / prototype cameras have different sensor versions from sensor manufacture with different need of calibration.

This is not BMD's fault, this is the sensor manufacture who has made a mess, just like with the 4K Camera sensors.

Of course it is BM's fault, they did not test properly.

As a potential buyer, here are my questions:

1. How many (or what % of) cameras at BMD with the problem were corrected by recalibration?
2. Were any cameras at BMD with the problem not corrected by recalibration? If so, what %?
3. Are all units yet to be shipped being confirmed to not exhibit the problem?
4. Is there a serial number range for units (i.e. shipped prior to this announcement) that may exhibit the problem?
5. Are distributors being asked to test and/or recalibrate any units in their current inventory before fulfilling any more orders?

Submitted with all due respect.