Blooming Sensor Update

The place for questions about shooting with Blackmagic Cameras.
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Joshua Helling

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Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostFri Sep 06, 2013 4:22 am

Ryan Jones wrote:
I've just been informed the current AU procedure is dealer -> disti -> BMD.

Dealer currently isn't returning calls, must be a very busy Friday. Also no longer opens on Saturdays, so its probably a mail order process for me either way.

People, THIS is why BMD should have taken their time to comment on it. So they could get things sorted out and in place, making any process as easy and farce free as possible. Instead no one you're talking to about returns seems to have any idea what they're supposed to do, while other countries just get a nice easy RMA form to send it back.


I've just spoken to New Magic. It may be easier to go dealer -> disti -> BMD. However I spoke to New Magic and they will issue you an RA directly (we call them RMA's stateside, but they're the same).

I'm sorry the dealer's not returning the call. Maybe in your case it's gonna be faster to go directly to New Magic.

Sorry for the hassle back and forth, we're still working this process out.
Joshua Helling

Director of World Wide Support
Blackmagic Design Inc.
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Joshua Helling

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Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostFri Sep 06, 2013 4:24 am

DanAbrams wrote:Mr. Helling,

Thanks so much for being responsive and keeping us in the loop. Without information, people tend to get agitated and go a little cuckoo.

But boy-oh-boy, I see why BMD really wanted to wait and offer a reasoned response. Every word from every official response is parsed with lawyer-like precision. It's like feeding wolves.

Please keep us in the loop on this issue. It makes most of us a lot less nuts.


I totally understand!
Joshua Helling

Director of World Wide Support
Blackmagic Design Inc.
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Mataikan

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Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostFri Sep 06, 2013 5:16 am

Hi, I think this is my first post here.
I am based in Singapore, where the cameras are produced. I just sent in the camera for calibaration this morning, as soon as I saw this respone posted up here by BMD. I might be getting my camera back from BMD after sending it in today. Hopefully it happens and I will report the results.
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FisHeR

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Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostFri Sep 06, 2013 6:40 am

This is my first post here too

I'm in thailand and pre-order this around one and half month ago.
What if I go to singapore for re-calibration myself as soon as I've got a camera.
It's not take too long for calibration right? (I hope it's 1-2 days).

Thank you for your responsed.

Mataikan wrote:Hi, I think this is my first post here.
I am based in Singapore, where the cameras are produced. I just sent in the camera for calibaration this morning, as soon as I saw this respone posted up here by BMD. I might be getting my camera back from BMD after sending it in today. Hopefully it happens and I will report the results.

Just seeing this. Hope for a good results. :)
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Rolf Silber

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Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostFri Sep 06, 2013 6:50 am

I wait for a camera (not pre-ordered) at my dealer to arrive. Do I have a chance to see if it's an already calibrated version? I do not intend to go out, test it, bring it back, send it in etc. etc....

So at what point and how can I be sure, the calibrated ones are around and the one that may appear in front of me is one?
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Lee Mackreath

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Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostFri Sep 06, 2013 6:58 am

I am assuming this issue has not halted production in anyway?...is there any indication why stock is taking so long to reach customers? It seems there are only a few dozen BMPCC's out there so far and its been over a month now since shipping began?
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Kristian Lam

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Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostFri Sep 06, 2013 7:27 am

LMACKREATH wrote:I am assuming this issue has not halted production in anyway?...is there any indication why stock is taking so long to reach customers? It seems there are only a few dozen BMPCC's out there so far and its been over a month now since shipping began?


Hi,

While we can't say how many Pocket Cinema Camera have been shipped, I can assure you that there's way more than a few dozen Pocket Cinema Cameras shipped :)
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Lee Mackreath

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Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostFri Sep 06, 2013 7:32 am

Kristian Lam wrote:
LMACKREATH wrote:I am assuming this issue has not halted production in anyway?...is there any indication why stock is taking so long to reach customers? It seems there are only a few dozen BMPCC's out there so far and its been over a month now since shipping began?


Hi,

While we can't say how many Pocket Cinema Camera have been shipped, I can assure you that there's way more than a few dozen Pocket Cinema Cameras shipped :)


That's good to know!.. Thank you for the quick response.. Look forward to receiving mine soon!
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christian.himmelstrand

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Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostFri Sep 06, 2013 7:44 am

Thank you Joshua and Kristian for the update and answers!
Now we can breathe again.

To make things easy (this is how changes are made and notified in vehicle industry/maintenance)

From which serial no is the the new calibration made on the units that are leaving BMD?

This info is helpful to everyone, so that people don't send cameras back in vain, or that every worried customer is mailing service department with dozens of mails.

e.g.
Uncalibrated Serial no >12345
Calibrated Serial no <12346
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Cinehaus

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Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostFri Sep 06, 2013 7:53 am

I think that Kristian Lam has already made it clear that he cannot tell how many cameras have shipped and following your suggestion would do exactly that.
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Francesco Bollorino

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Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostFri Sep 06, 2013 8:09 am

Christian H wrote:Thank you Joshua and Kristian for the update and answers!
Now we can breathe again.

To make things easy (this is how changes are made and notified in vehicle industry/maintenance)

From which serial no is the the new calibration made on the units that are leaving BMD?

This info is helpful to everyone, so that people don't send cameras back in vain, or that every worried customer is mailing service department with dozens of mails.

e.g.
Uncalibrated Serial no >12345
Calibrated Serial no <12346

SIMPLE but good idea as usual in car industry
Francesco Bollorino
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Cinehaus

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Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostFri Sep 06, 2013 8:41 am

There are many good reasons for keeping the competition guessing about production details at this point in time. However I agree that BM is in a dilemma right now, as surely they wish to reassure those that have orders pending.
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Pascal Deshayes

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Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostFri Sep 06, 2013 8:44 am

Kristian Lam wrote:
All sensors, be it CCD or CMOS, will have a ‘blooming’ effect when during severe overexposure,

Kristian Lam
Blackmagic Design


The Digital Bolex guys have just released sunset footage, shooting right into the sun with neither blooming nor black dots.
[url]www.digitalbolex.com
[/url]
Could you please elaborate on the theory behind your cameras' problems?

Thanks,
Pask
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ungovernedreason

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Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostFri Sep 06, 2013 9:10 am

Wow this is a change! I think I actually just witnessed a complete dialogue between a Black magic employee and multiple concerned supporters! I just woke up and am still half asleep so I am really hoping this is not a dream!
Jonathon E Norris
Former Canadian Military
Videographer
UnGoverned Productions

Code: Select all
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwXLMT1XKyk&list=PL3XHcImUakQ30c-Xzd96iq5YEyk36LP-Z&index=2
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Pascal Deshayes

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Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostFri Sep 06, 2013 9:33 am

I still firmly believe that BMD should recall all BMPCC and pay for all costs involved.

BMD website excerpts:

"so now you can shoot cinema quality in situations never before possible!"
"Every aspect of the image path has been totally optimized for quality!"
"Record standard ProRes™ and RAW files to SD cards"

To me, bloomy lights and black dots are NOT "cinema quality" images.
Obviously, the image path has NOT been optimized nor properly tested.
Those sunset images from their website should have a black dot in them, otherwise it's just misinformation.
That other shot showing the BMPCC's screen perfectly viewable in sunlight is also misinformation. Check Blunty's review and you'll see that the screen is actually unusable outdoor as soon as there is a bit of sun.
And, off-topic, what is raw still being advertised?

I'm not sure how far off from reality a company can advertise before getting into legal trouble but my guess is BMD are playing with the limits big time.
Pask
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Mataikan

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Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostFri Sep 06, 2013 9:43 am

I just got my camera back! tested some footage, looks so far so good.
Apparently the fix was through software.
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Lee Mackreath

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Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostFri Sep 06, 2013 9:52 am

Mataikan wrote:I just got my camera back! tested some footage, looks so far so good.
Apparently the fix was through software.


Please explain more...how do you know it was a software fix and how come it got fixed so quickly?

Can you now post some footage where blooming would normally occur?
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Mataikan

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Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostFri Sep 06, 2013 10:04 am

i am waiting for the light to go down and shoot some car headlights. that should be a good test .
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Ivan Yap

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Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostFri Sep 06, 2013 10:04 am

Mataikan wrote:I just got my camera back! tested some footage, looks so far so good.
Apparently the fix was through software.


Hi Mataikan, can you share the details of whom you contacted and where you sent the camera for calibration, please? Fellow early-adopter based in Singapore here. Thanks so much.
Ivan Yap
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Stefan Longin

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Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostFri Sep 06, 2013 10:53 am

Mataikan wrote:i am waiting for the light to go down and shoot some car headlights. that should be a good test .


You don't need car headlight. Just find any sun reflection in chrome, glass or other shiny surface.
Good object for test is a car, see this example:

Image

But it will be nice to see the headlights too. A lot of people a very curious for your footage. Thanks in advance for your effort.
S. Long
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Chiaroscuro

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Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostFri Sep 06, 2013 11:27 am

Chiaroscuro wrote:Are you sure this will fix the problem? Admittedly, going through all this trouble for a fix that "might" work is unreasonable.


Joshua, many thanks for the info and your willingness to communicate. Except for obvious - and hopefully soon to be resolved issues - I really do love my new camera and I'm sure many others will too.

This is the kind of assurance that will keep me a BM customer for a long time to come!
Jaco Spies
Visual Artist
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Mataikan

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Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostFri Sep 06, 2013 11:29 am

here are some quick screen grabs. i will shoot some stuff tonight and upload a video.


i got my camera (http://www.lsv.com.sg/)ImageImageImage
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Paul Kapp

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Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostFri Sep 06, 2013 11:39 am

Mataikan wrote:here are some quick screen grabs. i will shoot some stuff tonight and upload a video.


i got my camera.

Woohoo
Magic
Someone pulled a rabbit out of their...
Last edited by Paul Kapp on Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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adamroberts

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Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostFri Sep 06, 2013 11:40 am

Mataikan wrote:here are some quick screen grabs. i will shoot some stuff tonight and upload a video.


Looks pretty good. Thats how I'd expect the camera to render clipped highlights.
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MMedia

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Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostFri Sep 06, 2013 11:55 am

Will this be a software update? Or will it still need to be a sent back for the update?
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Richard Squires

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Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostFri Sep 06, 2013 11:56 am

Balls. I cancelled too soon.
Richard Squires
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christian.himmelstrand

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Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostFri Sep 06, 2013 12:00 pm

Mataikan wrote:here are some quick screen grabs. i will shoot some stuff tonight and upload a video.
]


Wow! Thanks for that calibration confirmation.
It seems to be the end of the blooming issue.

Now is what remains the shipping / warranty thing.

To send a package from Sweden to Australia with insurance, is like a third of the camera price?
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Stefan Longin

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Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostFri Sep 06, 2013 12:05 pm

Christian H wrote:To send a package from Sweden to Australia is like a third of the camera price?


I am in contact with EMEA support, they are based UK and will supply you with infomation
support-emea@blackmagicdesign.com

Thanks Mataikan for your effort
(shouldn't it be the job of BMD??)
S. Long
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Paul Kapp

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Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostFri Sep 06, 2013 12:08 pm

MojitoMedia wrote:Will this be a software update? Or will it still need to be a sent back for the update?


Firmware, surely?
Or
Re-calibration?
Last edited by Paul Kapp on Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:23 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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adamroberts

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Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostFri Sep 06, 2013 12:15 pm

Christian H wrote:To send a package from Sweden to Australia with insurance, is like a third of the camera price?


As slong said you need to deal with Blackmagic EMEA Support. They deal with the EU warranties.

No need to ship it Down Under...
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Rinaldo Lima

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Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostFri Sep 06, 2013 12:39 pm

This fix was so fast so a bit hard to believe... :shock: It was like frying a burger... "please well done for me"... (JD). Anyway thanks Mataikan for your effort. We are waiting for the night shots... :roll:

Let's see other examples like the ones Joshua has promissed, at least he said will try to post some. This would be a good documentation...
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Kscho

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Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostFri Sep 06, 2013 12:51 pm

moebiushaydn wrote:
Mataikan wrote:I just got my camera back! tested some footage, looks so far so good.
Apparently the fix was through software.


Hi Mataikan, can you share the details of whom you contacted and where you sent the camera for calibration, please? Fellow early-adopter based in Singapore here. Thanks so much.


Here you go.

Asia
31 Tannery Lane #08-01 HB Centre II Singapore 347788
T: +65 6339 2171
F: +65 6339 2172
Richard Lim - richardl@blackmagicdesign.com
Video Product Sales Asia and Sub-Continent
Support for Asia
T: +65 6339 2171
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Felix Steinhardt

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Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostFri Sep 06, 2013 12:58 pm

Ok, so what about the new cameras? :?:
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Eli hershko

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Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostFri Sep 06, 2013 1:21 pm

I'm so happy I didn't wait and sent my camera in yesterday!!!!
Eli Hershko
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Ruben Kremer

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Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostFri Sep 06, 2013 1:23 pm

This forum-topic sure can use some positivity ;-) ... I'm #1 on the pre-order list of my dealer here in the Netherlands. And I'm not cancelling - If I can pick up my BMPCC and it has 'The Bloom', I'll have my dealer arrange the RMA before I even leave the store with it. I'll come back when it's fixed. Sure, it's an inconvenience - but I've waited since April - I'm not complaining about a week or two extra.

Rather have a fully functional bug-free camera a couple of weeks later than planned, than a cam with bugs. I'm convinced BMD will get their act together on this - and the posting of Josh and Kristian only support this.

Though I am curious - will new shipments/batches be 'pre-re-calibrated'? ;-)
Ruben Kremer
Camera and Editing at The One Minute Company
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Kholi Hicks

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Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostFri Sep 06, 2013 1:40 pm

Someone in another thread posted that their new camera could not reproduce similar clipped highlights, so it looks like they were already on top of it last week and just trying to take their time to make sure.

Probably some happy people what moved up in line over the last two days.
Kholi Hicks
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Lackey

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Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostFri Sep 06, 2013 2:00 pm

This may be interesting for buyers that bought camera within EU:

Under EU law, within the legal guarantee period of two years, defective products must be repaired or replaced without any cost to the consumer. This includes shipping costs. So, in principle, the seller should cover all shipping costs (your sending the faulty camera to the seller; the seller's returning the repaired camera to you).

However, the seller may wish to examine the camera to check whether it was defective when you bought it. In this case, you may have to pay to return the camera and ask to be refunded the shipping costs if the seller agrees that it was defective.



So return your camera to the store and let them handle the repair, don't forget to ask for shipping refund.
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Ivan Yap

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Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostFri Sep 06, 2013 2:20 pm

Kscho wrote:
moebiushaydn wrote:
Mataikan wrote:I just got my camera back! tested some footage, looks so far so good.
Apparently the fix was through software.


Hi Mataikan, can you share the details of whom you contacted and where you sent the camera for calibration, please? Fellow early-adopter based in Singapore here. Thanks so much.


Here you go.

Asia
31 Tannery Lane #08-01 HB Centre II Singapore 347788
T: +65 6339 2171
F: +65 6339 2172
Richard Lim - richardl@blackmagicdesign.com
Video Product Sales Asia and Sub-Continent
Support for Asia
T: +65 6339 2171


Thank you for the contact details. The Support Manager for BM Asia has already gotten in touch with me. Great service (so far)!
Ivan Yap
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raadgie

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Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostFri Sep 06, 2013 2:39 pm

Christian H wrote:
...

From which serial no is the the new calibration made on the units that are leaving BMD?

...



This is very important question for now. I would like to say: Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything. Coz serial number is usually somewhere on the box too. And we can be sure before we will open it.

I hope BMD will not must build the computer Deep Thought for simple answer!!!


Karl von Bahnhof
CEO
Chicken shots production
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Tungee

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Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostFri Sep 06, 2013 2:56 pm

Thanks to all, who cancelled their Pocktet preorders ;) ;) ;) :P
This should push me bit higher on the preorder-list :twisted:
A lot have react to hectic :)
Last edited by Tungee on Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:46 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Ruben Kremer

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Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostFri Sep 06, 2013 2:59 pm

Christian H wrote:From which serial no is the the new calibration made on the units that are leaving BMD?


raadgie wrote:This is very important question for now. I would like to say: Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything. (...)


Well if it is all that you describe. The answer must undoubtedly be 42.
Ruben Kremer
Camera and Editing at The One Minute Company
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Rinaldo Lima

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Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostFri Sep 06, 2013 3:07 pm

If we have serial number start point, plus all the blooming effect of existing cameras fixed by recalibration (or even via firmware at some point?) that along with the assurance that every new customer is receiving orb-free cameras from some point, than it will be heaven again... :D
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raadgie

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Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostFri Sep 06, 2013 3:16 pm

Rinaldo Lima wrote:If we have serial number start point, plus all the blooming effect of existing cameras fixed by recalibration (or even via firmware at some point?) that along with the assurance that every new customer is receiving orb-free cameras from some point, than it will be heaven again... :D


Number of employees BMD
divide
their annual income
times
BMPCC number of subscribers

:lol:
Karl von Bahnhof
CEO
Chicken shots production
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josephrose

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Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostFri Sep 06, 2013 3:19 pm

Everyone who thinks BMD is going to stop the presses and do this recalibration on all new cameras from a certain number on, are insane. Or at least very optimistic.

I predict that they will absolutely NOT do this. To do so would be admitting that early cameras were defective, and they just refuse. They're counting on the large majority of buyers to not go through the whole process of returning cameras and just living with it.
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Christopher S. Thompson

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Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostFri Sep 06, 2013 3:21 pm

I hope that's not true. Seems like a giant PITA for both BMD and the user, when they could just be routed through recalibration on their way out the door.
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Eli hershko

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Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostFri Sep 06, 2013 3:40 pm

Mataikan wrote:i am waiting for the light to go down and shoot some car headlights. that should be a good test .




Hi Mataikan,
can you post some footage for us to see?
It would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Eli Hershko
http://www.conjuredvisions.com
http://pro.imdb.com/name/nm2860666/
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Eli hershko

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Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostFri Sep 06, 2013 3:42 pm

Josh,

Is it possible to see the samples you mentioned of before and after?


Thanks so much.
Eli Hershko
http://www.conjuredvisions.com
http://pro.imdb.com/name/nm2860666/
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Steve Holmlund

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Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostFri Sep 06, 2013 3:42 pm

josephrose wrote:Everyone who thinks BMD is going to stop the presses and do this recalibration on all new cameras from a certain number on, are insane. Or at least very optimistic.

I predict that they will absolutely NOT do this. To do so would be admitting that early cameras were defective, and they just refuse. They're counting on the large majority of buyers to not go through the whole process of returning cameras and just living with it.


This is what remains a mystery. If re-calibration solves most, if not all, of the customer satisfaction issues, I'm not sure why it matters if this is labeled an "issue" or a "defect". If there's a fix, err, "adjustment" that works, then all is good. I suppose it relates to who pays inbound shipping. But suppose that 1000 cameras have been shipped to date and that 50% get returned at an average cost of $40 each (inbound). The incremental cost to BMD for the inbound freight is $40 x 500 = $20K. That seems like a small amount of money to foster good will among your customer base. Maybe the numbers are much higher than that.

In any case, by far the cheapest place to address product "issues" is before they leave the factory. I would assume that as soon as re-calibration is confirmed to be the answer, some assurance that new shipments have all been "adjusted" would be in BMD's best interest. (put a pink slip in the box)

There are most likely resource and financial constraints to which we are not privvy but it also seems like there are some basic things that could be done at fairly low cost to make the situation better. Maybe it's too soon for those.

Also, in spite of the term "serial" number, I believe the formats are routinely obfuscated so that ranges can be reported without divulging the quantity of units shipped. I suppose someone who received one of the first units could post his serial number. If it is something like "000015", that would shed some light on that part of the question.
Steve Holmlund
Hobbyist
BMPCC, vintage Rokkor lenses, Olympus 12-40 and 12-100, Panasonic 100-300 II
SmallHD Focus, i7 8700k / GTX 1080
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MagicAndMayhem

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Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostFri Sep 06, 2013 3:47 pm

Joshua Helling wrote:Okay...seriously? You're picking apart my post? I used the word FIX in the same context as it was provided. It's still a recalibration. So I will ask of you what I asked of Philip, please don't intentionally cause confusion. I'll edit my post so that anyone reading it will be clear.



Hey, It's your company that started this play on words game. Don't blame us wanting to clarify what exactly you mean. You have a lot of making up to do and it's not going to happen in one day with a few posts. Got it?
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Vince Gaffney

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Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostFri Sep 06, 2013 3:52 pm

MagicAndMayhem wrote:Hey, It's your company that started this play on words game. Don't blame us wanting to clarify what exactly you mean. You have a lot of making up to do and it's not going to happen in one day with a few posts. Got it?


"Got it?" What's next? "Put em up."
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