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I think I'll grab my BMCC again

PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 2:41 pm
by Peter Selbie
Working for a while now with the Pocket 4K now but....
I miss the cinematic image of the BMCC so much that I will only use the pocket 4K for slowmotion or extreme wide shots.
The image of BMCC is nowhere near to be matched with the Pocket 4k or 6K ...
I think it has a lot to do with the sensor in the new cameras CMOS it doesn't have the image of art or cinema ..
it's too digital. The development has focused too much on resolution and not on its disadvantages ...
So my next movie will be again with the BMCC 12 bit RAW dng 2.5K......

Re: I think I'll grab my BMCC again

PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 12:28 pm
by Gary Stanford
Agree. I bought the BMPCC 4K for higher frame rates, low light situations and greenscreen shots and a year later my go to cameras for the bulk of shooting are still the BMCCs.

Re: I think I'll grab my BMCC again

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 2:14 pm
by Que Thompson
I think that people believe the OG BMCC has a more "cinematic" look because of the green tint. A lot of movies are shot with RED cameras which also have that green tint so subconsciously we think "cinematic".

Personally, I think the the 4k is better for many reasons, but to each their own.

Re: I think I'll grab my BMCC again

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 2:49 pm
by Boscom
Lens choice plays an important roll if you want a less digital look. If you dont have the budget for the likes of Zeiss or Leica glass, have a play around with some of the more affordable vintage lenses. A lot of the modern photo lenses which seem popular for the 4k and 6k pocket camera's, like the Sigma's and Panasonics - as good as they are certainly dont help in creating a more 'filmic' look with their high micro contrast, clinically sharp renderings.

Re: I think I'll grab my BMCC again

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:09 pm
by Chris Leutger
Those lenses were popular with the OG cameras as well and when these cameras came out people were using C-mount lenses so all that was part of the ecosystem long ago. It's not anything that can be summed up by "green tint" or lenses, it's just that it was a different sensor and tech than the current models which are Sony sensors so tend to look more like everything else. The OG cameras are definitely limited in terms of measurable blah, blah, blah compared to the newer cameras. No one is denying that. But they did have a "look" all their own and for some users, that look is magic. We all know that grading can do stuff as well and no one is denying that you have a lot more flexibility in grading with the files produced in the newer cameras. Yet there are some of us that feel like we're getting something special with the older cameras. For the 4K/6K crowd let's replace "special" with "different" to make it palatable.

I was on track this year to get a P6K because I needed better low light capabilities and I wanted to see what the sensor could do. The pandemic changed that though. I thought about buying a backup to my P2K and was surprised to see that the prices, which tanked when the 4K came out, are up now.

Re: I think I'll grab my BMCC again

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:10 pm
by Brad Hurley
Lighting plays such a significant role in that cinematic look, though. I wonder how much more "filmic" or "cinematic" this very short illustration (which was shot with the BMPCC 4K) would have looked if it had been done with the BMCC or the original Pocket instead?


Re: I think I'll grab my BMCC again

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:05 pm
by Peter Selbie
Brad Hurley wrote:Lighting plays such a significant role in that cinematic look, though. I wonder how much more "filmic" or "cinematic" this very short illustration (which was shot with the BMPCC 4K) would have looked if it had been done with the BMCC or the original Pocket instead?



This what I mean
Way to sharp its like I'm in a studio or sitcom story

A simple example:

Re: I think I'll grab my BMCC again

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:21 pm
by Peter Selbie
This comes close to 70's old movies who needs more resolution ?? When you see this...

I can't get the link from vimeo to look in big screen

Re: I think I'll grab my BMCC again

PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:39 am
by Dmitry Shijan
BMCC, BMPCC BMMCC and 4,6K use Fairchild Imaging dual gain sensors (similar tech to to Arri sensors and newer C300 Mark III and Canon C70). They also have color science Gen1 which provide access to original unchanged sensor color space.

P4K and P6K cameras use dual ISO Sony sensor (hard switch between high and low ISO setting) and color science Gen4 with shorter Log curve and a with intermediate transformation to limited BMD WideGamut color space which cause a lot of problems with high saturated colors clipping.

With some tweaks both cameras can be graded to match the same look and provide near same dynamic range if use REDIPP2 workflow described here viewtopic.php?f=21&t=65149&p=543725#p537852

Color science gen 5 in Resolve 12.3 beta3 provide way wider LOG curve and nice Gamut compression without clipping. This is one of the main reasons why 12K camera examples look so nice. BMD just finally made magic "make make it pretty in one click" toggle in BRAW settings so anyone can have nice looking footage without even knowing what he do:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=82441&start=100#p675964
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=122826&p=675929#p673549

I still prefer my BMMCC with OLPF due larger pixel size, tiny form factor, small DNG file sizes, simplicity, better grain structure more friendly to noise reduction and low cost. It can recover up to 3 stops from shadows without too visible FPN.
See full test here:
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=65149&p=543725#p543876
Image
Image

Re: I think I'll grab my BMCC again

PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:50 am
by smslavin
Hmm. Interesting. I'm assuming the Micro Cinema and the Micro Studio share some common traits? If so, I'm kinda jazzed to test out my Micro Studios. Haven't had a chance to test them yet.

Btw, Dmitry, your little add-ons are perfect. Keeps everything tidy and clean. Appreciate you putting the effort in to build them.

Re: I think I'll grab my BMCC again

PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:14 am
by Dmitry Shijan
smslavin wrote:Hmm. Interesting. I'm assuming the Micro Cinema and the Micro Studio share some common traits? If so, I'm kinda jazzed to test out my Micro Studios. Haven't had a chance to test them yet.

Btw, Dmitry, your little add-ons are perfect. Keeps everything tidy and clean. Appreciate you putting the effort in to build them.


Micro Cinema and the Micro Studio4K may look the same externally, but they based on completely different sensors from different manufacrurers. Micro Studio4K have way less dynamic range.

Re: I think I'll grab my BMCC again

PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:37 pm
by Chris Leutger
Thanks Dmitry. You just reminded me that the Micro Cinema is still available. With prices on used OG Pocket's being what they are, it would make more sense to me to get a new MCC as a back up to my current camera. And thanks for the links above as well.

Re: I think I'll grab my BMCC again

PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:16 pm
by Michael Sandiford
I know its not meant to be possible but if we could have got Braw on the original BMCC........