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New Nikon Z*II will record to BRAW

PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:10 pm
by MrHotter
The new Nikon Z6II and Z7II will record to BRAW. That sounds great to me since my wife is unwilling to give up her Nikons and we already share lenses. Now I can get an autofocus gimbal cam will be able to shoot in RAW that will work with my lenses.

From the announcement:
"Step things up by attaching an external recorder (sold separately) to capture 10-bit N-Log or HDR (HLG) footage. Or go all the way with a paid firmware upgrade and compatible external recorder* and output 12-bit ProRes RAW or Blackmagic RAW format** via HDMI.

*Such as Atomos Ninja (ProRes RAW) or Blackmagic Design’s Video Assist 12G HDR recorder (Blackmagic RAW).

**Black Magic RAW support via a paid firmware upgrade available February 2021."

The announcements here:
Z6II https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-produ ... 01jVvbQAAS

Z7II https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-produ ... z-7ii.html

Re: Nikon Z6II will record to BRAW

PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:39 pm
by Akpe Ododoru
MrHotter wrote:The new Nikon Z6II will record to BRAW. That sounds great to me since my wife is unwilling to give up her Nikons and we already share lenses. Now I can get an autofocus gimbal cam will be able to shoot in RAW that will work with my lenses.

From the announcement:
"Step things up by attaching an external recorder (sold separately) to capture 10-bit N-Log or HDR (HLG) footage. Or go all the way with a paid firmware upgrade and compatible external recorder* and output 12-bit ProRes RAW or Blackmagic RAW format** via HDMI.

*Such as Atomos Ninja (ProRes RAW) or Blackmagic Design’s Video Assist 12G HDR recorder (Blackmagic RAW).

**Black Magic RAW support via a paid firmware upgrade available February 2021."


I thought it was only the Z7II getting BRAW (and not Z6II)

Re: Nikon Z6II will record to BRAW

PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:54 pm
by MrHotter
Akpe Ododoru wrote:
I thought it was only the Z7II getting BRAW (and not Z6II)


It does not look like they've released the info on the Z7II yet. The Z6 was better suited to video, and I'm thinking that will be the same for the ZII release.

Re: Nikon Z6II will record to BRAW

PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:05 pm
by robedge
It appears that the title of this thread may be incorrect. Perhaps it should be edited/changed. The B&H overview says that ProRes Raw for the Z6II is coming. It says that the Z7II is already set up for ProRes Raw and that Blackmagic Raw will be available for the Z7II in February:


Re: Nikon Z6II will record to BRAW

PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:11 pm
by robedge
Tomorrow, B&H is streaming a two-hour live panel with Nikon manager Martin Cruz, two B&H staff, Joe McNally and Charmi Pena: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/vi ... ss-cameras?


Screenshot 2020-10-14 at 10.08.11 AM.png
Screenshot 2020-10-14 at 10.08.11 AM.png (362.43 KiB) Viewed 6651 times

Re: Nikon Z6II will record to BRAW

PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:19 pm
by MrHotter
robedge wrote:It appears that the title of this thread may be incorrect. Perhaps it should be edited/changed. The B&H overview says that ProRes Raw for the Z6II is coming. It says that the Z7II is already set up for ProRes Raw and that Blackmagic Raw will be available for the Z7II in February:



Nice info! I had not seen the release info on the Z7II yet. It looks like both announcements have the same info currently for BRAW. They may update that if what they have is not correct for both cameras.

From the Z7II page:
"Step things up by attaching an external recorder (sold separately) to capture 10-bit N-Log or HDR (HLG) footage. Or go all the way with a paid firmware upgrade and compatible external recorder* and output 12-bit ProRes RAW or Blackmagic RAW format** via HDMI.

*Such as Atomos Ninja (ProRes RAW) or Blackmagic Design’s Video Assist 12G HDR recorder (Blackmagic RAW).

**Black Magic RAW support via a paid firmware upgrade available February 2021."

Re: New Nikon Z*II will record to BRAW

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:23 pm
by robedge
Based on the B&H live stream with Nikon manager Mark Cruz, it appears that both cameras will get an optional paid upgrade to ProRes Raw (Atomos) and Blackmagic Raw (Blackmagic VA) in February:

See 1:11:00...



Re: paid upgrade to record to BRAW

PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:18 pm
by ricardo marty
A paid upgrade makes a lot of sense. It gives the camera manufacturers a new revenue stream and could make adoption of braw much faster and wider. Hope sony will jump onboard for the a7slll and other cameras. I think its a winwin for both the makers and bmd. although another hit to our pockets but one that I will consider if the price reasonable.

Ricardo Marty

Re: New Nikon Z*II will record to BRAW

PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:45 pm
by mark.sze
Although it may be unlikely, it would be great if a paid upgrade for the Z6 (non-II) for BRAW became available, too.

Would be happy to change out the Atomos Ninja V and ProRes for a Video Assist with BRAW to assist with workflow (and storage space).

Re: New Nikon Z*II will record to BRAW

PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:08 am
by mark.sze
I'm happy to see that the first versions, Z 6 and Z 7, will be able to do raw with the Blackmagic Video Assists :)

Info and table showing compatibility (Note: Au link)
https://www.nikonimgsupport.com/na/NSG_ ... rigin=null

Is still a paid upgrade...

Re: New Nikon Z*II will record to BRAW

PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 5:59 pm
by rick.lang
Thanks for the link; I passed it to my producer for the narrative films I may be working on in 2021. The producer has the Nikon Z6 we used in 2019 along with my Blackmagic cameras.

Re: New Nikon Z*II will record to BRAW

PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2020 6:12 am
by mark.sze
All good, I'm keen to see how the footage compares to the Pocket 4K I have... Waiting for a response from Nikon AU on when and how much. Then need to find a good deal on a Video Assist 12G :)

Re: New Nikon Z*II will record to BRAW

PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 6:35 pm
by Denny Smith
Rick Using the Z6 with BRaw option on your 12G recorder would make editing quicker and smoother...
Cheers

Re: New Nikon Z*II will record to BRAW

PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 7:17 pm
by rick.lang
Denny, agree that the Z6 is now a very good companion to the BMPCC4K since both can produce BRAW. When I worked on the narrative film pilot, I was recording ProRes on the BMPCC4K but this upgrade makes BRAW my preferred codec paired with the Z6.

Although many shooters prefer to avoid the extra weight of the BMVA12G7 monitor/recorder, for my locked shooting, it’s a good option. It also allows me to use the same scopes on both cameras to judge exposures. This is especially important for false colour to show identical colour values and middle grey.

Re: New Nikon Z*II will record to BRAW

PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 6:04 am
by Denny Smith
All good points Rick.
Cheers

Re: New Nikon Z*II will record to BRAW

PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:36 pm
by Christopher Dobey
A few quick thoughts since both the Ninja V and Video Assist 12G 5" have arrived for my Nikon Z w/ RAW upgrade -

Ninja V - ProRes RAW
minimum ISO 100
ISO non adjustable in Final Cut Pro 10.5.1
fan noise is unusably loud for close range interview

Video Assist 12G 5" - BRAW
minimum ISO 800
ISO non adjustable in Resolve Studio 17.1 Build 11
fan noise usable but noticeable in quiet environment

It's unfortunate that ISO 100 BRAW cannot be achieved as I feel that is where the dynamic range, low noise and color reproduction really sings with the Z6 sensor. Without ISO 100 it's going to be harder to recommend the need for BRAW vs 10-bit ProRes 422 HQ N-Log since being stuck at ISO 800 or higher was the biggest drawback for me with N-Log.

To overcome the Ninja V fan noise I've simply unplugged the fan, with plans to solder in an in-line switch so I can switch the fan off during recording and back on afterwords to cool down without needing to turn off the unit (similar to what RED's do automatically). I am not recommending this procedure. as it is surely not a practical or reliable solution for most but does serve my current project needs.

If anyone could explain and link documentation to why cinema cameras have a higher 'base/native' ISO (ARRI, RED, BMD etc..) that is adjustable in post as metadata vs. a set non-adjustable lower base ISO for still cameras it would be much appreciated!

RED describes still cameras usually having a lower native ISO 100 and 200 but I'm interested in the reason why still cameras and cinema cameras approach ISO differently.

Re: New Nikon Z*II will record to BRAW

PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 12:33 am
by Akpe Ododoru
Christopher Dobey wrote:A few quick thoughts since both the Ninja V and Video Assist 12G 5" have arrived for my Nikon Z w/ RAW upgrade -

Ninja V - ProRes RAW
minimum ISO 100
ISO non adjustable in Final Cut Pro 10.5.1
fan noise is unusably loud for close range interview

Video Assist 12G 5" - BRAW
minimum ISO 800
ISO non adjustable in Resolve Studio 17.1 Build 11
fan noise usable but noticeable in quiet environment

It's unfortunate that ISO 100 BRAW cannot be achieved as I feel that is where the dynamic range, low noise and color reproduction really sings with the Z6 sensor. Without ISO 100 it's going to be harder to recommend the need for BRAW vs 10-bit ProRes 422 HQ N-Log since being stuck at ISO 800 or higher was the biggest drawback for me with N-Log.

To overcome the Ninja V fan noise I've simply unplugged the fan, with plans to solder in an in-line switch so I can switch the fan off during recording and back on afterwords to cool down without needing to turn off the unit (similar to what RED's do automatically). I am not recommending this procedure. as it is surely not a practical or reliable solution for most but does serve my current project needs.

If anyone could explain and link documentation to why cinema cameras have a higher 'base/native' ISO (ARRI, RED, BMD etc..) that is adjustable in post as metadata vs. a set non-adjustable lower base ISO for still cameras it would be much appreciated!

RED describes still cameras usually having a lower native ISO 100 and 200 but I'm interested in the reason why still cameras and cinema cameras approach ISO differently.

Can you please link to the article that states minimum ISO is 800 when recording BRAW.

Re: New Nikon Z*II will record to BRAW

PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 1:41 am
by Christopher Dobey
Akpe Ododoru wrote:
Christopher Dobey wrote:A few quick thoughts since both the Ninja V and Video Assist 12G 5" have arrived for my Nikon Z w/ RAW upgrade -

Ninja V - ProRes RAW
minimum ISO 100
ISO non adjustable in Final Cut Pro 10.5.1
fan noise is unusably loud for close range interview

Video Assist 12G 5" - BRAW
minimum ISO 800
ISO non adjustable in Resolve Studio 17.1 Build 11
fan noise usable but noticeable in quiet environment

It's unfortunate that ISO 100 BRAW cannot be achieved as I feel that is where the dynamic range, low noise and color reproduction really sings with the Z6 sensor. Without ISO 100 it's going to be harder to recommend the need for BRAW vs 10-bit ProRes 422 HQ N-Log since being stuck at ISO 800 or higher was the biggest drawback for me with N-Log.

To overcome the Ninja V fan noise I've simply unplugged the fan, with plans to solder in an in-line switch so I can switch the fan off during recording and back on afterwords to cool down without needing to turn off the unit (similar to what RED's do automatically). I am not recommending this procedure. as it is surely not a practical or reliable solution for most but does serve my current project needs.

If anyone could explain and link documentation to why cinema cameras have a higher 'base/native' ISO (ARRI, RED, BMD etc..) that is adjustable in post as metadata vs. a set non-adjustable lower base ISO for still cameras it would be much appreciated!

RED describes still cameras usually having a lower native ISO 100 and 200 but I'm interested in the reason why still cameras and cinema cameras approach ISO differently.

Can you please link to the article that states minimum ISO is 800 when recording BRAW.


Official Nikon Support - "[with Blackmagic] the base ISO will be ISO 800 by specification"

Official Nikon Support - "When shooting in raw video output mode for ATOMOS (Type A), the camera is not restricted to the minimum of ISO 800 (As with shooting in 10-bit N-Log mode)"

Re: New Nikon Z*II will record to BRAW

PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 4:05 am
by rick.lang
Interesting if the ISO can’t be set by the camera operator. That’s not a requirement of the Video Assist and assumes the ISO has to match the URSA Mini Pro for example rather than match the ISO 400 of the BMPCC4K for example. Thanks for pointing that out.

Re: New Nikon Z*II will record to BRAW

PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 7:21 am
by Christopher Dobey
rick.lang wrote:Interesting if the ISO can’t be set by the camera operator. That’s not a requirement of the Video Assist and assumes the ISO has to match the URSA Mini Pro for example rather than match the ISO 400 of the BMPCC4K for example. Thanks for pointing that out.


Hey Rick!

The ISO for BRAW can be set in-camera with the Z6 in increments of 1/2 and 1/3 stops ranging from ISO 800-51,200. I wanted to point out that ISO under 800 cannot be achieved.

New Nikon Z*II will record to BRAW

PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 5:20 pm
by rick.lang
Appreciate that information, Christopher. It’s seems arbitrary on the part of Nikon, but they may have an explanation from a blog somewhere in the multiverse.

After watching Midnight Sky last night, I think there are likely two explanations for things we can’t explain. First we had “47” and now we have “K23.”

Re: New Nikon Z*II will record to BRAW

PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 5:48 pm
by Overlander
Do you mean Midnight Sky? Midnight Sun is another film. K23 is the give away. I watched it last night too. Not a good watch in this time of a global pandemic. I could not believe the list of artists and animators. The endcrawl was almost as long as the film. That said, I rather enjoyed the understated aspects.

Re: New Nikon Z*II will record to BRAW

PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 5:50 pm
by rick.lang
Oh, you’re right! Corrected...

Re: New Nikon Z*II will record to BRAW

PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 7:48 pm
by Denny Smith
The fixed ISO on high end 10-bit signal output on the Z6 has been IS0 800 from day 1, as this is the native ISO of the sensor/camera signal flow in camera. The Z6 HDMI 10-bit output for recording ProRes to an external recorder was also fixed at ISO800, I doubt you would get any difference in dynamic range if you could adjust ISO to 100, which even in camera is just shifting the image gray scale, not really increasing overall dynamic range.

Raw output for the Z6 is just that, Raw, unprocessed or limited camera processing of the signal before being output, so ISO will be at its native 800 level, to change this is adding processing to the signal, and it would no longer be a Raw signal.
Cheers

New Nikon Z*II will record to BRAW

PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:41 pm
by rick.lang
Apologies for going slightly off topic, but anyone doing narrative work with the Nikon Z6/8 and recording BRAW vía the BMVA12G7 or equivalent might want to have the Nikkor Z 14-24mm F2.8Szoom. The lens has 112mm filter threads and here’s the neutral density filters to use:
NiSi 112mm screw-on with optional lightweight hood.

https://www.provideocoalition.com/nisi- ... 4mm-f2-8s/

Re: New Nikon Z*II will record to BRAW

PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:05 pm
by Denny Smith
Looks nice Rick, thanks. But I think I will stick with the f/4 14-24mm zoom lens.
Cheers