DJI RS2 & RSC2 Gimbals: LIDAR Focus, Live View Transmitter

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DJI RS2 & RSC2 Gimbals: LIDAR Focus, Live View Transmitter

PostFri Oct 16, 2020 12:55 pm

[EDIT: Thread title updated. For LIDAR & Blackmagic cameras, see the post and video ten down.]

This is pretty interesting, especially the RavenEye image transmitter.

DJI says that the RS 2 gimbal (US$850, $1000 with RavenEye and other accessories) is compatible with the Pocket 4K and 6K, and that the RSC 2 (US$500, $740 with RavenEye and other accessories) is compatible with the 4K: https://www.dji.com/support/compatibility

The optional RavenEye module transmits the image from your camera to a smartphone or tablet. The module itself is $160.

There are already a lot of overviews on YouTube, these ones from Peter McKinnon and Parker Walbeck's channel:




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Re: New DJI Gimbals With Image Transmission

PostFri Oct 16, 2020 1:13 pm

In this review, Toronto camera vendor Vistek pushes rig weight on the RS 2 to 3.6kg/8lb with an anamorphic lens. It's a fairly balanced review. The resulting footage is at 06:05.


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Re: New DJI Gimbals With Image Transmission

PostFri Oct 16, 2020 2:48 pm

Some good features with the IR focus addon and the image transmission module. Too bad the image transmission is just to a phone/tablet.

I've not watched any reviews yet, but I'd be curious to see if anyone has tried to put a pocket 4k on the RSC version. Their web page says it's supported, but I'm not sure if that means it kinda works, or if it fits comfortably. https://www.dji.com/support/compatibility/rsc-2/bmpcc4k

It does say you can use pull focus and activate autofocus from the cable connection, so that sounds nice.
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Re: New DJI Gimbals With Image Transmission

PostFri Oct 16, 2020 3:50 pm

MrHotter wrote:I've not watched any reviews yet, but I'd be curious to see if anyone has tried to put a pocket 4k on the RSC version. Their web page says it's supported, but I'm not sure if that means it kinda works, or if it fits comfortably. https://www.dji.com/support/compatibility/rsc-2/bmpcc4k


The fellow who made the Vistek video in the post just above yours used the RS 2, which has a stated payload capacity of 4.5kg. His payload was 3.6kg and he says in the video that this somewhat compromised the gimbal's performance. The payload capacity of the RSC 2 is 3kg.

If you're talking about bulk rather than weight, have a look at the camera/lens combination he used.
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Re: New DJI Gimbals With Image Transmission

PostFri Oct 16, 2020 4:46 pm

I'd like to see a comparison test between the DJI RS2 and the Crane 3S Pro. Being that the 3S Pro has been around longer now, there's a cottage industry around it of add-ons. It's likely that DJI will have the same too. Two things on the Crane 3S Pro has a slight advantage over RS2 - (1) a longer arm for larger cine cams like the URSA Minis and Sony F series and (2) motors capable of payload slightly over 10 lbs. I rented a Crane 3S Pro and used it with the UMP G2 and it had no trouble with it. I wouldn't suggest carrying one without something less than an easy-rig of sorts - unless you have Popeye's arm to carry it for a while.

More info on the 3S here (starting at 5:16 for heavier and larger cine cams):


BTW, the Crane does come with image transmission. I believe they were the first out with it.
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Re: New DJI Gimbals With Image Transmission

PostFri Oct 16, 2020 5:56 pm

I imagine that DJI is happy with Peter McKinnon. His video does a great selling job on these gimbals. Nice dirt bike footage, too, shot about 100 miles west of Toronto. The rider is sponsored by Honda :)

Like McKinnon, I'm fairly resistant to using a gimbal. Haven't owned one in several years. However, I'm interested in the RSC 2, with RavenEye, for use with a Pocket 4K and a prime lens. Total weight (gimbal, Pocket 4K, Leica M-mount prime) should be about 2.3kg/5lb. Add about 360g/13oz, when needed, for the RavenEye module and my iPhone. I'm probably under by a few ounces, but in the ballpark.

The price and weight work for me, and RavenEye is very attractive. The "combo" package, at $740, may or may not make sense over the basic RSC 2/RavenEye price of $660.

RSC 2: $500
RavenEye: $160
Total: $660

Gimbal weight: 1.2kg/2.6lb
RavenEye: 126g/4.4oz
My iPhone: 226g/8oz

Payload: up to 3kg/6.6lb
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Re: New DJI Gimbals With Image Transmission

PostFri Oct 16, 2020 10:25 pm

[EDIT: The video in the post four down suggests that B&H is incorrect.]

B&H has posted this exchange with a customer for both the RS 2 and the RSC 2:



Screenshot 2020-10-16 at 6.22.20 PM.png
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Re: New DJI Gimbals With Image Transmission

PostSat Oct 17, 2020 11:24 am

DJI RS 2 + BMPCC 4Kl:


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Re: New DJI Gimbals With Image Transmission

PostSat Oct 17, 2020 11:34 am

Tilta says that it worked with DJI to develop accessories for the RS 2 and RSC 2: https://tilta.com/2020/10/introducing-t ... r-dji-rs2/

Demonstration video...




From the link:

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Re: New DJI Gimbals With Image Transmission

PostSat Oct 17, 2020 12:55 pm

This new rs gimble adds lidar. the video shows a p4k.




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Re: New DJI Gimbals With Image Transmission

PostSat Oct 17, 2020 1:27 pm

ricardo marty wrote:This new rs gimble adds lidar. the video shows a p4k.




Ricardo Marty


I've updated the thread title to take into account this video.

RS 2 + Pocket 4K and 6K from 05:05. Great info on DJI 3D Focus (LIDAR) with fully manual lenses. For me, the big question is, how well does this work in daylight?

No problem with fit. At 14:50, he says that both cameras work "flawlessly" with both gimbals. I don't see any counterbalance weights either.

From his pinned comment:

"The 3D focus will be available for sale on the DJI website in a few weeks. It's $169, and requires the focus motors and the RS2 but not the Ravens Eye wireless transmitter. If you want the Rs2 to track you, then you will need the transmitter. I'll post the link in the description when it's up!!

"So the first few shots are out of focus with the f0.95--- this was more to show proof of concept, the focus plane of f0.95 is razor thin and most camera companies won't make autofocus lenses faster than 1.4 (with a few exceptions).

"The real winner here is all my Black magic peeps. This rig now makes cameras like the Black magic 6k unstoppable, and the 4K worth even more! That is if you don't mind spending the $1000 for a gimbal + $169 sensor."
"
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Re: New DJI Gimbals With Image Transmission

PostSun Oct 18, 2020 12:57 am

robedge wrote:
ricardo marty wrote:This new rs gimble adds lidar. the video shows a p4k.




Ricardo Marty


I've updated the thread title.

RS 2 + Pocket 4K and 6K from 05:05. Great info on DJI 3D Focus (LIDAR) with fully manual lenses. For me, the big question is, how well does this work in daylight?

At 14:50, he says that both cameras work "flawlessly" with both gimbals, no problem with fit. I don't see any counterbalance weights either.

From his pinned comment:

"The 3D focus will be available for sale on the DJI website in a few weeks. It's $169, and requires the focus motors and the RS2 but not the Ravens Eye wireless transmitter. If you want the Rs2 to track you, then you will need the transmitter. I'll post the link in the description when it's up!!

"So the first few shots are out of focus with the f0.95--- this was more to show proof of concept, the focus plane of f0.95 is razor thin and most camera companies won't make autofocus lenses faster than 1.4 (with a few exceptions).

"The real winner here is all my Black magic peeps. This rig now makes cameras like the Black magic 6k unstoppable, and the 4K worth even more! That is if you don't mind spending the $1000 for a gimbal + $169 sensor."
"

The only thing is he doesn't mount it with any sort of cage/ssd holder, and I know a lot of people including myself would need those to fit and balance as well preferably without the use of any counter weights
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Re: DJI RS2 & RSC2 Gimbals: LIDAR Focus, Live View Transmitt

PostSun Oct 18, 2020 3:03 pm

I do like a lot of what I see for this new DJI RS2 gimbal. I posted the following though in another thread but it really belongs in this thread:

DJI’s videos show you just what they want you to see, nothing that isn’t slick and quick. A better overview is on Vistek’s website discussing both some first impressions pro and con from an actual shoot. Now Vistek is trying to sell these yet their video is far more balanced than those from DJI:

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Re: DJI RS2 & RSC2 Gimbals: LIDAR Focus, Live View Transmitt

PostSun Oct 18, 2020 3:14 pm

rick.lang wrote:A better overview is on Vistek’s website discussing both some first impressions pro and con from an actual shoot. Now Vistek is trying to sell these yet their video is far more balanced than those from DJI:



I also like the Vistek video and linked it in the second post in the thread. From that post: “In this review, Toronto camera vendor Vistek pushes rig weight on the RS 2 to 3.6kg/8lb with an anamorphic lens. It's a fairly balanced review. The resulting footage is at 06:05.”

Re the LIDAR test in the Make. Art. Now. video that Ricardo Marty posted (three and two posts above)...

I really want to see the LIDAR focusing tested in daylight rather than in a fairly dark room. As people may know, Apple’s new iPhone 12 has LIDAR, but Apple itself is saying that it mostly improves low light performance. That said, would what I know about LIDAR fill a thimble? No, more like a quarter of one.
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Re: DJI RS2 & RSC2 Gimbals: LIDAR Focus, Live View Transmitt

PostSun Oct 18, 2020 4:17 pm

I just hope they will eventually sell the lidar independent of the gimble.for my p4k. Then a whole new world of lenses opens up. And then a good small well-priced evf.from sombody. Then Im good.

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Re: DJI RS2 & RSC2 Gimbals: LIDAR Focus, Live View Transmitt

PostSun Oct 18, 2020 6:19 pm

robedge wrote:DJI RS 2 + BMPCC 4K. Includes several shots of the camera on the gimbal:


Both camera shooters are shown using a Canon camera. Do you mean the camera shooting the shooters was BMPCC4K? Looked at it 3 times and only noticed the Canon logo.
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Re: DJI RS2 & RSC2 Gimbals: LIDAR Focus, Live View Transmitt

PostSun Oct 18, 2020 6:29 pm

rick.lang wrote:
robedge wrote:DJI RS 2 + BMPCC 4K. Includes several shots of the camera on the gimbal:


Both camera shooters are shown using a Canon camera. Do you mean the camera shooting the shooters was BMPCC4K? Looked at it 3 times and only noticed the Canon logo.



In the "make art" video it shows the bmd cameras. And talks about it.

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Re: DJI RS2 & RSC2 Gimbals: LIDAR Focus, Live View Transmitt

PostSun Oct 18, 2020 6:44 pm

For $169 the LIDAR system might be worth the cost on manual lenses where you are not in total control of the subject making use of a traditional follow focus difficult. If it only controls something in the centre of frame, that’s not good. Even with the gimbal using the AI subject tracking feature, with RavenEye, the subject isn’t forced to be in the centre of frame.
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Re: DJI RS2 & RSC2 Gimbals: LIDAR Focus, Live View Transmitt

PostSun Oct 18, 2020 6:48 pm

Ricardo, yes, the “make art” video featured the BMPCC6K snd Justine’s video gave assurances that the BMPCC4K works well on both the RS2 and RSC2. Really seems to be a promising product that I’ll have on the wishlist for 2021 when hopefully I’ll begin shooting controlled narrative film again.
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Re: DJI RS2 & RSC2 Gimbals: LIDAR Focus, Live View Transmitt

PostSun Oct 18, 2020 7:25 pm

rick.lang wrote:
robedge wrote:DJI RS 2 + BMPCC 4K. Includes several shots of the camera on the gimbal:


Both camera shooters are shown using a Canon camera. Do you mean the camera shooting the shooters was BMPCC4K? Looked at it 3 times and only noticed the Canon logo.


This was shot with the gimbal and Pocket 4K, but you're correct that they're using Canons to shoot the filmmaker. Wasn't paying close enough attention. I've corrected the post.

Cool video, though :)
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Re: DJI RS2 & RSC2 Gimbals: LIDAR Focus, Live View Transmitt

PostMon Oct 19, 2020 1:54 pm

I'm missing the 12v outputs the Ronin S had, which I could use to power the BMPCC4k...
As we all know, the cams need a lot battery power and constantly changing battery on the gimbal really sucks! 12v power was really nice to have on the Ronin S, but the new RS2 only has USB-C. So you can power a GoPro, but not a BMPCC4k
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Re: DJI RS2 & RSC2 Gimbals: LIDAR Focus, Live View Transmitt

PostTue Oct 20, 2020 4:19 pm

McKinnon talks about LIDAR and low light photography with the new iPhone 12 Pro at 6:03:


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Re: DJI RS2 & RSC2 Gimbals: LIDAR Focus, Live View Transmitt

PostTue Oct 20, 2020 10:09 pm

Image
Image

I believe I have figured out how to mount the BMPCC4k on the RS2. Imagine that the camera were not too wide for the gimbal. Position it where you know it belongs and push the camera as close as possible to the arm as shown in the second photo. This will result in the bottom plate NOT fully locking onto the rail as shown in the first photo. This isn't really an issue as the camera feels perfectly secure even though some of the baseplate is hanging off the mounting rail. When I run a balance test on the gimbal, the unit says the balance is excellent.
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DJI RS2 & RSC2 Gimbals: LIDAR Focus, Live View Transmitter

PostTue Oct 20, 2020 10:46 pm

John, thanks for mentioning that; it does look risky, but no one who was saying the BMPCC4K worked well on the RS2 and RSC2 seemed to have a concern. Wish there was a more secure locking but it appears not to be a showstopper. Something to look for in future reviews.
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Re: DJI RS2 & RSC2 Gimbals: LIDAR Focus, Live View Transmitt

PostTue Oct 20, 2020 10:50 pm

rick.lang wrote:John, thanks for mentioning that; it does look risky, but no one who was saying the BMPCC4K worked well on the RS2 and RSC2 seemed to have a concern. Wish there was a more secure locking but it appears not to be a showstopper. Something to look for in future reviews.


The Make.Art.Now video 12 posts up claims that there are no issues with fit and that both Pocket cameras work on both versions of the gimbal “flawlessly”.
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Re: DJI RS2 & RSC2 Gimbals: LIDAR Focus, Live View Transmitt

PostWed Oct 21, 2020 11:09 am

I would really like to know if I can fit my caged BMPCC4K on an RS2? Smallrig cage to be exact.

If the posts here are indeed correct, it seems the fit is a kind of a tradeoff with safety, even without a cage....don't really like that and I'm surprised DJI would list these cameras as supported, if the only way to mount them is with such a gimmick.

Well, looking forward to learning how this really is. If you guys find out, please let the rest of us know. Thanks!
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Re: DJI RS2 & RSC2 Gimbals: LIDAR Focus, Live View Transmitt

PostWed Oct 21, 2020 12:15 pm

robedge wrote:
The Make.Art.Now video 12 posts up claims that there are no issues with fit and that both Pocket cameras work on both versions of the gimbal “flawlessly”.


Unfortunately, that video doesn't explain how he did it. Also, there are 3 holes in the mounting plate for the camera. In the photo I showed, I was using the middle hole. When I use the hole that is more to the left, the camera fits on the plate even better.
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Re: DJI RS2 & RSC2 Gimbals: LIDAR Focus, Live View Transmitt

PostWed Oct 21, 2020 1:06 pm

johnricardnyc wrote:
robedge wrote:
The Make.Art.Now video 12 posts up claims that there are no issues with fit and that both Pocket cameras work on both versions of the gimbal “flawlessly”.


Unfortunately, that video doesn't explain how he did it. Also, there are 3 holes in the mounting plate for the camera. In the photo I showed, I was using the middle hole. When I use the hole that is more to the left, the camera fits on the plate even better.


He doesn't explain why he was testing LIDAR in a fairly dark room, either :)
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Re: DJI RS2 & RSC2 Gimbals: LIDAR Focus, Live View Transmitt

PostWed Oct 21, 2020 1:09 pm

Solid, straight up review from DPReview/Jordan Drake. However, he doesn't test with a Blackmagic camera and doesn't talk about LIDAR:


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Re: DJI RS2 & RSC2 Gimbals: LIDAR Focus, Live View Transmitt

PostWed Oct 21, 2020 1:50 pm

robedge wrote:
johnricardnyc wrote:
robedge wrote:
The Make.Art.Now video 12 posts up claims that there are no issues with fit and that both Pocket cameras work on both versions of the gimbal “flawlessly”.


Unfortunately, that video doesn't explain how he did it. Also, there are 3 holes in the mounting plate for the camera. In the photo I showed, I was using the middle hole. When I use the hole that is more to the left, the camera fits on the plate even better.


He doesn't explain why he was testing LIDAR in a fairly dark room, either :)


He was testing the low light capacity of lidar with a 0.9 lens.

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Re: DJI RS2 & RSC2 Gimbals: LIDAR Focus, Live View Transmitt

PostWed Oct 21, 2020 1:55 pm

robedge wrote:Solid, straight up review from DPReview/Jordan Drake. However, he doesn't test with a Blackmagic camera and doesn't talk about LIDAR:




The Lidar is not out yet. Make art video said it would be out shortly. He probably got it because DJI contracted him for a short film about the product.

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Re: DJI RS2 & RSC2 Gimbals: LIDAR Focus, Live View Transmitt

PostWed Oct 21, 2020 1:55 pm

ricardo marty wrote:He was testing the low light capacity of lidar with a 0.9 lens.


Yes, I know what he was doing. What I want to see, especially in light of what Apple says about the function of LIDAR in the iPhone 12, is a test of the effectiveness of LIDAR in daylight. That test will tell us how much of a real benefit DJI LIDAR is, or isn't, for focus with manual lenses.
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Re: DJI RS2 & RSC2 Gimbals: LIDAR Focus, Live View Transmitt

PostThu Oct 22, 2020 9:41 pm

Fairly detailed discussion about the features of the RSC2 and differences with the RS2:


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Re: DJI RS2 & RSC2 Gimbals: LIDAR Focus, Live View Transmitt

PostFri Oct 23, 2020 3:45 pm

no one of the youtuber talks about the DJI failures on the new gimbals

12mm rod for the focus motor (no one uses 12mm!)
record button ahead of the M-button
no power for BMPCC 4k/6k
aso

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Re: DJI RS2 & RSC2 Gimbals: LIDAR Focus, Live View Transmitt

PostSat Oct 24, 2020 5:20 am

Thanks, Mark, for that comment about the focus motor requiring a 12mm rail. What are they thinking!? I’d certainly want to utilize their focus motor if it’s proprietary as my lenses are all manual. Maybe that will be corrected by the time I’d purchase the RS2 next year.
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Re: DJI RS2 & RSC2 Gimbals: LIDAR Focus, Live View Transmitt

PostSat Oct 24, 2020 7:27 am

one more thing

the raveneye will not charge when the ronin is charging!

DJI thinks just as little finished as BMD (see USB-C cable on the 12K with SSD module)
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DJI RS2 & RSC2 Gimbals: LIDAR Focus, Live View Transmitter

PostSat Oct 24, 2020 8:36 pm

robedge wrote:
ricardo marty wrote:He was testing the low light capacity of lidar with a 0.9 lens.


Yes, I know what he was doing. What I want to see, especially in light of what Apple says about the function of LIDAR in the iPhone 12, is a test of the effectiveness of LIDAR in daylight. That test will tell us how much of a real benefit DJI LIDAR is, or isn't, for focus with manual lenses.

LIDAR doesn’t use any visible light that would make it less useful in daylight compared to the lowlight support it provides. ********* But I have no idea if Apple has decided when it’s turned on or off in their infinite wisdom or if the user can enable it at their discretion to assist with focus under any circumstance.

Even if restricted to lowlight, I believe the effective distance of subjects is quite limited so iPhone LIDAR won’t detect those Israeli F-35 warplanes currently on their way to ‘Tehran’ as of October 23rd. Will find out Friday October 30th on Apple TV+ if the Iranians have used their evaluation iPhone 12 Pro Max to thwart the Israeli plans once again. I suspect so.

Edit *
Removed comment “It’s radar.”
Last edited by rick.lang on Sun Oct 25, 2020 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: DJI RS2 & RSC2 Gimbals: LIDAR Focus, Live View Transmitt

PostSat Oct 24, 2020 11:43 pm

LIDAR sets typically use the infrared spectrum. Sunlight is more than the visible spectrum with a significant infrared component. So LIDAR performance in sunlight is a concern, it's not a hand wave. Testing is needed.
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Re: DJI RS2 & RSC2 Gimbals: LIDAR Focus, Live View Transmitt

PostSun Oct 25, 2020 5:25 pm

Apologies if LIDAR on the iPhone 12 Pro is using infrared and not radio. I’ll try to recall where I may have got the wrong impression as I don’t think Apple has said what the technology uses. Anyone else who can site a source, please jump in here.
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Re: DJI RS2 & RSC2 Gimbals: LIDAR Focus, Live View Transmitt

PostSun Oct 25, 2020 5:37 pm

rick.lang wrote:Apologies if LIDAR on the iPhone 12 Pro is using infrared and not radio. I’ll try to recall where I may have got the wrong impression as I don’t think Apple has said what the technology uses. Anyone else who can site a source, please jump in here.


LIDAR stands for Light Detection and Ranging. It uses light, specifically lasers or LEDs. RADAR stands for RAdio Detection and Ranging. It uses radio.

Apple has been quite specific about what it’s doing with its “LiDAR Scanner”. There are several discussions about it on its web site and elsewhere.
Last edited by robedge on Sun Oct 25, 2020 5:40 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: DJI RS2 & RSC2 Gimbals: LIDAR Focus, Live View Transmitt

PostSun Oct 25, 2020 5:38 pm

Thanks for that!
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DJI RS2 & RSC2 Gimbals: LIDAR Focus, Live View Transmitter

PostSun Oct 25, 2020 10:00 pm

Apple describes the “invisible light” pulses of LIDAR, but isn’t explicit about the wavelengths used. Other articles such as about the new Intel RealSense L515 camera, mention lasers but doesn’t specify which wavelengths.

The fact that the Measure app is using it in daylight means it isn’t restricted to low light usage in general, but it’s still a good question to know if the Camera app uses it for normal lighting situations. It can use various wavelengths. I haven’t seen Apple describe which method they’re using but near infrared may be reasonable. Or could be further along the electromagnetic spectrum.

Wikipedia:
“Lidar uses ultraviolet, visible, or near infrared light to image objects.”
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Re: DJI RS2 & RSC2 Gimbals: LIDAR Focus, Live View Transmitt

PostThu Oct 29, 2020 6:54 pm

Footnote: just read Apple is considering using LIDAR and RADAR for Apple Glass. Yes, real radar.
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