honesty and communication please

The place for questions about shooting with Blackmagic Cameras.
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samuelchristopher

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Re: honesty and communication please

PostWed Sep 26, 2012 4:03 am

exactly Nick and thanks Pete

the 7D was a compromise not the fact it was last years gadget and no it doesn't produce beautiful imagery, its messy and falls apart. Th BMCC is the first professional looking video camera that is as affordable at those 7D's and 5Ds thats the excitement, I mean ffs its cheaper than the 5D mark III! I still cant get over that.

To be honest what I said was I have nothing to film with but really I never filmed with the 7D anyway, or I did but when I did I would never showcase anything because it was not up to scratch with the level of professionalism I wanted. But I want to get going on these video projects Ive put on hold because I could not achieve that quality. Now with the prospect of this finally coming to fruition and the fact this has been long overdue for me, I'm so excited that the frustration has come out like so many others so I think you should just respect one another and stop telling those people to shut up and pipe down, they are showing their frustrated excitement.
Samuel Christopher
@samchristopher
www.samuelchristopher.co.uk
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Nick Bedford

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Re: honesty and communication please

PostWed Sep 26, 2012 5:00 am

Big sigh of relief!

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1288
Nick Bedford, Photographer
http://www.nickbedford.com/
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c.carlos.n

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Re: honesty and communication please

PostWed Sep 26, 2012 3:25 pm

I still want to complain, but I can't cause you just gave what I needed, a update, thanks
Carlos E Núñez
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Richard Wade

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Re: honesty and communication please

PostFri Sep 28, 2012 3:59 am

Well...well...well...

I've been 'banned' for a week, and I come back to countless others are now all asking
the exact same thing I was banned for!

I read the latest update letter from BM. I still found it to be incredibly vague...and the
glass issue makes me wonder: "Why didn't they figure this out earlier?"

What's the harm in releasing a list of all what will/could be included in the firmware?

in other news:

OneRiver Media's comparison of the BM Vs 5D however was an amazing video, and
the green screen comparison (much to the chagrin of some posters here) was a much
needed comparison.

In many respects, I am glad some DSLR users are crying 'foul' over OneRiver's review,
since this will only mean more camera tests...and the more tests we have, the less 'religion'
we'll have when discussing this camera.

I was quite impressed by how well the BMC held up against the 5D. Philip Bloom should take
note: This is how you conduct a camera review.

I do agree with the original post: I noticed that BM hired a 'communications rep', I hope she
will take an active/open role in this forum to help answer any nagging questions
...and forum users not be treated as Apostates for asking pointed questions.
The only real BMCC green screen test to date: https://vimeo.com/49238555
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Nick Bedford

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Re: honesty and communication please

PostFri Sep 28, 2012 4:36 am

Richard Wade wrote:Well...well...well...

I've been 'banned' for a week, and I come back to countless others are now all asking
the exact same thing I was banned for!

I read the latest update letter from BM. I still found it to be incredibly vague...and the
glass issue makes me wonder: "Why didn't they figure this out earlier?"


Did you even read the letter? It explains it why!
Nick Bedford, Photographer
http://www.nickbedford.com/
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Brian Self

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Re: honesty and communication please

PostSat Sep 29, 2012 3:06 am

Grant you did an amazing job filling us in, thank you!
Brian Self - Wedding Filmmaker/Cinematographer
www.brianself.me
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John Brawley

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Re: honesty and communication please

PostSat Sep 29, 2012 11:14 pm

Richard Wade wrote:
I've been 'banned' for a week, and I come back to countless others are now all asking
the exact same thing I was banned for!



More likely it was because of your disrespectful and argumentative tone.

Richard Wade wrote:
I read the latest update letter from BM. I still found it to be incredibly vague...and the
glass issue makes me wonder: "Why didn't they figure this out earlier?"



What are you talking about. Grant's statement tells exactly the order of events. They have some good sensors. They ship a few cameras. Then some sensors start failing BMD's QA process. They take a few weeks to chase down the fault. A process that was beyond their direct control.

Richard Wade wrote:
What's the harm in releasing a list of all what will/could be included in the firmware?



They'll tell you when they actually release it. What's the harm in that ?

Richard Wade wrote:
I was quite impressed by how well the BMC held up against the 5D.



I think most people felt there was no comparison. The BMCC was an order of magnitude better on several fronts.


Richard Wade wrote:
I do agree with the original post: I noticed that BM hired a 'communications rep', I hope she
will take an active/open role in this forum to help answer any nagging questions
...and forum users not be treated as Apostates for asking pointed questions.


I think they should concentrate on building really awesome products and shipping them. BMD have a forum. The CEO himself explained to you what the holdup was, as soon as it was PRUDENT to do so,

I don't see anything like this from Sony, Canon et al.

jb
John Brawley ACS
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Richard Wade

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Re: honesty and communication please

PostSun Sep 30, 2012 6:07 am

John Brawley wrote:They'll tell you when they actually release it. What's the harm in that ?


Seeing that BM has already sold/accepted pre-orders, it's simply good business
to be open/upfront about when/what the next firmware will ship/contain.

Fact is: BM shipped an incomplete camera.

For all we know, the next firmware will only contain 1,2 tweaks and won't be released until 2015.

Never assume anything: We all learned that from RED.

John Brawley wrote:I think most people felt there was no comparison. The BMCC was an order of magnitude better on several fronts.


It was by far the best review so far...but not as comprehensive as it could have been.

Still...no movement on the green screen tests, no comparisons of Prores regarding keying.

Look John: You have the BMCC don't you? Why not post a clip of greenscreen with movement?

What's the saying? Put up or...

John Brawley wrote:I think they should concentrate on building really awesome products and shipping them. BMD have a forum. The CEO himself explained to you what the holdup was, as soon as it was PRUDENT to do so,

I don't see anything like this from Sony, Canon et al.
jb


What Canon/Sony has to do with this is beyond me. Or are you now saying BM should adopt Canon's
practices of releasing firmware years/ages apart for cameras that have long passed their glory days? (Canon 7D)

I just felt Grant was being vague about the firmware. He said it would be available 'in a few days'
well...it's going to be a week shortly. Just like when BM said cameras would start shipping in July...August...

So is this what we are to expect from BM?

If there is one thing they could do in the interim, is to be upfront about what features they are working on including in the firmware, this will greatly help many who are deciding whether/not to buy this camera,
as well as if it is worth getting lenses with image stabilizers vs other lenses.

Petty mentions there will be 'support' for lens stabilizers...but is this only for Canon OIS? Or Sigma? I don't have a clue. He mentions DNxHD, but what version? There's six different versions of DNxHD. With ProRes BM went solely with ProRes422(HQ), even though many of us would have liked the choice of ProRes422 and especially ProRes4444.

ProRes4444 would be a Godsend as it would give us the full 2.5K resolution and 12-bit range.

Also, ProRes4444 is 148 Gigabytes per hour...so you're looking at 90 minutes of shooting time on a 256GB SSD drive Vs. 30 minutes shooting DNG.

Why isn't this being discussed further? We all seemed to 'accept' DNG/ProRes422(HQ). I want ProRes4444!

Petty mentions other 'small features' , like what? Many want a basic counter for the amount of time left on the SSD/battery. Many want to know if they can delete clips...or will they need to get a laptop to lug around the field to do quick deletions/formatting?

Petty's update regarding the firmware was about as clear as mud. All what I got out of it was that they had sensor issues...and thus shipments could be delayed until 2015 for all I know.
The only real BMCC green screen test to date: https://vimeo.com/49238555
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PetePolyakov

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Re: honesty and communication please

PostSun Sep 30, 2012 7:23 am

Hi Richard,
i don't want to give any oblivious advices but maybe you will check the camera on the stand at some reseller before you will buy it. sure, if you have have any reseller around.
i need just 2.5k pixel to pixel high quality/res camera and, sure, raw. everything else can be the same as 5d/7d or even worst, it will work for me anyway. but it's that i need, maybe your reqs need more detailed tests that nobody can't do better than yourself.
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Richard Wade

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Re: honesty and communication please

PostSun Sep 30, 2012 8:39 am

PetePolyakov wrote:Hi Richard,
i don't want to give any oblivious advices but maybe you will check the camera on the stand at some reseller before you will buy it. sure, if you have have any reseller around.
i need just 2.5k pixel to pixel high quality/res camera and, sure, raw. everything else can be the same as 5d/7d or even worst, it will work for me anyway. but it's that i need, maybe your reqs need more detailed tests that nobody can't do better than yourself.


If resolution is all you care about, then why not get this?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/839193-REG/JVC_GY_HMQ10U_GY_HMQ10_4K_Compact_Handheld.html/c/product/#inpage:IN+STOCK

I see where you are going with this comment of yours, but the fact remains: Just because
BM is the first company to "ship" a RAW/2.5K camera, does not mean we will suddenly suspend
logic.

I'm obviously not alone on this. A lot of people have not drank the proverbial kool-aid, and
are demanding BM be more open/transparent with what they are doing with the BMCC.

BM's slipping on release dates, vagueness with firmware and a new M43 version being announced
*after* some have thrown their money down on the EF model. What next? A full-sized open mount
version?


There has been some 'buyer's remorse' in regards to this camera so far.

I can understand a company being secretive over not yet announced hardware..but this is a camera
that has been announced/shipped.

We don't want any more 'surprises' with this camera, just have the facts please. No more 'beauty' vids,
just an "Adam Wilt" quality review where he would tear the BMCC apart and apply a much needed
critical analysis of the pros/cons of this camera


In summary: I want BM to succeed...but I will temper my zeal. I saw what happened with the
folks who 'bet the barn' on the Red Scarlet's baiting of a $3K camera at 3K resolution.


After that, I said: Once bitten, twice shy. Right now, we all should remain skeptical over the BMCC.
I agree with the OP: Honesty and Communication please!
The only real BMCC green screen test to date: https://vimeo.com/49238555
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Pete Proniewicz-Brooks

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Re: honesty and communication please

PostSun Sep 30, 2012 9:56 am

Richard Wade wrote:
John Brawley wrote:They'll tell you when they actually release it. What's the harm in that ?


Seeing that BM has already sold/accepted pre-orders, it's simply good business
to be open/upfront about when/what the next firmware will ship/contain.

Fact is: BM shipped an incomplete camera.


Fairly sure it's the retailers accepting the pre-orders not BM. And all the cameras shipped were complete as far as we know, no reports of duff BMCCs out there.

Until you are ready to ship firmware it's business suicide to be definite about what it will contain, as makes it much more difficult to drop a feature from a firmware release that isn't ready yet, meaning you have to delay. A mere glance at most forums will tell you that even the vaugest statement about the possibility of a feature will be taken as a cast Iron promise, often by those who should know better.


Richard Wade wrote:Petty's update regarding the firmware was about as clear as mud. All what I got out of it was that they had sensor issues...and thus shipments could be delayed until 2015 for all I know.


Firmware updates and the sensor issues are completely different. The sensor part was very clear on what the issue is and how it will be fixed ( sensors had dodgy glass protectors due to a glitch at glass manufacturers, new glass is being ordered now glitch has been traced). The firmware is less clear but since the camera is perfectly usable now without the newer firmware but with the fixed sensor it has no bearing on the camera shipping.
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Richard Wade

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Re: honesty and communication please

PostSun Sep 30, 2012 10:42 am

Pete Proniewicz-Brooks wrote:Until you are ready to ship firmware it's business suicide to be definite about what it will contain, as makes it much more difficult to drop a feature from a firmware release that isn't ready yet, meaning you have to delay. A mere glance at most forums will tell you that even the vaugest statement about the possibility of a feature will be taken as a cast Iron promise, often by those who should know better.


I don't buy that.

Can we agree that the BMCC is more than just a piece of hardware...but that it's the
software which can increase the value of this piece of gear?

With that said...

It's quite common for a lot of software companies to be quite open over the development
of their apps...and routinely will upload 'nightly builds' of their works in progress.

videolan.org offers frequent beta builds of their apps. Sometimes once a day.

There's absolutely nothing wrong in BM listing in priority/tentative what will be included/not in
the next firmware. Even simple bullet points with an explanation as to the speculation (such as higher frame rates) is possible.

I would be the first person to call someone to task if BM made such a list, and
someone else interpreted it as 'cast iron promise'.

When secrecy reigns: Rumors have currency.

Pete Proniewicz-Brooks wrote:Firmware updates and the sensor issues are completely different. The sensor part was very clear on what the issue is and how it will be fixed ( sensors had dodgy glass protectors due to a glitch at glass manufacturers, new glass is being ordered now glitch has been traced). The firmware is less clear but since the camera is perfectly usable now without the newer firmware but with the fixed sensor it has no bearing on the camera shipping.


Alright, you have no issue living in the dark over BM's botching the BMCC rollout. I however
can't help but see that BM is in trouble with this camera and my suggestion to them is simple:
Come out in the open with it. Share your problem/s with us, and we will tell you what to prioritize/what
to ignore for future updates.


When you have some free time, read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wisdom_of_Crowds
The only real BMCC green screen test to date: https://vimeo.com/49238555
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John Brawley

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Re: honesty and communication please

PostSun Sep 30, 2012 10:53 am

Richard Wade wrote:Come out in the open with it. Share your problem/s with us, and we will tell you what to prioritize what
to ignore for future updates.

When you have some free time, read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wisdom_of_Crowds


"My great-grandfather once said of the first car he ever built, “If I had asked my customers what they wanted, they would have said a faster horse.” At Ford, we’re going to figure out what people want before they even know it and then we are going to give it to them."
--Bill Ford

BMD don't and won't work the way you're asking. If you don't agree then perhaps you should move on. This is something that is at their very core.

They won't talk about what they are doing. They don't talk about what they are planning. This is their way. Asking about it over and over and lecturing here on this forum won't change it. This is their model. They have operated this way for 10 years.

That's not to say they don't listen to their customers. They are incredibly responsive. (look at the very fact they introduced m4/3)

jb
John Brawley ACS
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Bernhard

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Re: honesty and communication please

PostSun Sep 30, 2012 11:30 am

John Brawley wrote:"My great-grandfather once said of the first car he ever built, “If I had asked my customers what they wanted, they would have said a faster horse.” At Ford, we’re going to figure out what people want before they even know it and then we are going to give it to them."
--Bill Ford

jb



Hello,

this is only true for Disruptive Innovations,
a concept described by Clayton M. Christensen in The Innovator's Dilemma.
A book absolutely worth reading for all interested in technology and electronic industry.
One of the most important books to Steve Jobs.

Actually Christensen has shown that market-dominating companies won't survive the
introduction of a disruptive innovation; an innovation that redefines the whole market.
The reason: they made all right! Under many other aspects they've listened to their customers.
The problem is always a shift in the criteria for evaluating a product.

(BDW: this is the secret of Apple's success:
they are a huge company but act like a newbie to the market; cannibalizing themselves)

BUT:
as long as there is no disruptive innovation, it is the right thing to listen to the customers.

BMCC was such a disruptive innovation. It's successors (micro 4/3rds) are regular innovations.


The book is really worth reading!!!


Best regards,
Bernhard

PS: disruptive innovations in most cases are grassroots movements.
So the BMCC-fandom here at the forums and it's consequences are nothing unusual.
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John Brawley

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Re: honesty and communication please

PostSun Sep 30, 2012 11:35 am

Bernhard wrote:
Actually Christensen has shown that market-dominating companies won't survive the
introduction of a disruptive innovation; an innovation that redefines the whole market.
The reason: they made all right! Under many other aspects they've listened to their customers.
The problem is always a shift in the criteria for evaluating a product.


Agree totally.

I was trying to say that BMD don't make a habit of having a direct dialogue with their customers where they involve them in the development. There are several other camera companies that do that. There's even an open source type camera project underway right now if I recall.

http://www.apertus.org

I do they think BMD are committed to listening to what people are asking for and want though. And that should be the point of these forums.

jb
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Richard Wade

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Re: honesty and communication please

PostSun Sep 30, 2012 12:24 pm

John Brawley wrote:"My great-grandfather once said of the first car he ever built, “If I had asked my customers what they wanted, they would have said a faster horse.” At Ford, we’re going to figure out what people want before they even know it and then we are going to give it to them."
--Bill Ford


Seeing that 'ole Bill was behind one of the biggest losses in Ford's recent history (and had to resign
as CEO)...maybe he should have listened to what Gramps once said:

"It is not the employer who pays the wages. Employers only handle the money. It is the customer who pays the wages. " - Henry Ford.

John Brawley wrote:I was trying to say that BMD don't make a habit of having a direct dialogue with their customers where they involve them in the development.


right...

http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/support/sdks

anyways...

Fact is: The customer is always right, and this customer is saying to BM: Open up the BMCC. I would
love to see what the folks at Magic Lantern can do with the BMCC, I know I am not alone in this
statement.

Maybe you should go back to what you do best, and post a greenscreen DNG clip with your BMCC? how
about some footage with movement? we'd love to see that!

Thanks John!

- RW.
The only real BMCC green screen test to date: https://vimeo.com/49238555
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Toby Angwin

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Re: honesty and communication please

PostSun Sep 30, 2012 12:56 pm

Richard Wade wrote:Fact is: The customer is always right, and this customer is saying to BM: Open up the BMCC. I would
love to see what the folks at Magic Lantern can do with the BMCC, I know I am not alone in this
statement.

Maybe you should go back to what you do best, and post a greenscreen DNG clip with your BMCC? how
about some footage with movement? we'd love to see that!

I'm not sure whether I'm more amazed at your sense of entitlement or your out and out rudeness.
Toby Angwin - Director/Compositor

http://www.soupkitchenfilms.net
@soupkitchen on Twitter
http://vimeo.com/soupkitchen
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Andrew Usher

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Re: honesty and communication please

PostSun Sep 30, 2012 1:04 pm

I don't normally comment in threads like this, but in this case feel I need to. I am also appalled at the rudeness displayed by Mr Wade to John. I wish this forum like others had the ignore option, as Mr Wade is one individual I would place on that list.

It costs nothing to be polite.

Andrew Usher
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Bernhard

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Re: honesty and communication please

PostSun Sep 30, 2012 1:08 pm

Richard Wade wrote:Fact is: The customer is always right, and this customer is saying to BM: Open up the BMCC.


Sorry, but this in NOT a fact!

Please read Clayton M. Christensen: The Innovator's Dilemma.

Scientific FACT is, that in the case of a Disruptive Innovation,
customers's opinion lead to the fall of the marked-dominating companies!

It is well documented e.g. for the steamship that replaced the sailship.
Sailship building companies asked their customers. They told, the
steamship had to many disadvantages fort them. BUT: while the
steamship evolved very quickly in a niche, the sailship had only been optimized.
At the end, not a single sailship builder survived!

By the way: who have developed the first digital photo cam?
It was Kodak, back in 1975. They also asked their customers...

Agree with Andrew: It costs nothing to be polite.

Best regards,
Bernhard
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Martin Scanlan

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Re: honesty and communication please

PostSun Sep 30, 2012 1:15 pm

Richard, sometimes reading your posts is like watching a car crash in slow motion.

You are going to get thrown off the forum unless you temper the way you communicate. That's what the warnings and bans mean. It's a really easy thing to do. Just be nice.
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Richard Wade

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Re: honesty and communication please

PostSun Sep 30, 2012 1:16 pm

Bernhard wrote:
Richard Wade wrote:Fact is: The customer is always right, and this customer is saying to BM: Open up the BMCC.


Sorry, but this in NOT a fact!

Please read Clayton M. Christensen: The Innovator's Dilemma.

Scientific FACT is, that in the case of a Disruptive Innovation,
customers's opinion lead to the fall of the marked-dominating companies!

It is well documented e.g. for the steamship that replaced the sailship.
Sailship building companies asked their customers. They told, the
steamship had to many disadvantages fort them. BUT: while the
steamship evolved very quickly in a niche, the sailship had only been optimized.
At the end, not a single sailship builder survived!

By the way: who have developed the first digital photo cam?
It was Kodak, back in 1975. They also asked their customers...

Best regards,
Bernhard


Yes, allowing customized tweaks on the BMCC will lead to...BM sinking like a sailship.

I did not realize that the folks at Magic Lantern was actually killing the DSLR industry...and
that life is better if everything was closed architecture/proprietary.

So when is BM going to release a camera that shoots on Betamax?

:roll:
The only real BMCC green screen test to date: https://vimeo.com/49238555
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Bernhard

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Re: honesty and communication please

PostSun Sep 30, 2012 1:38 pm

Sorry, I only referred to

Richard Wade wrote:Fact is: The customer is always right


My point is:
To make a feature request of course it a good thing (communicated in an appreciating way),
but we as customers also need to give BMD the time they need to bring their disruptive product
to the market as they have initially planned it.

Afterwards the regular process of innovation can start;
and with the announcement of the micro4/3rd version it already has begun.

Best regards,
Bernhard
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Costa Louvieris

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Re: honesty and communication please

PostSun Sep 30, 2012 1:45 pm

Richard be nice.. you have some valid points but deliver them in such a rude way that you aren't doing yourself any favors.

I actually see Mr. Brawley as one of us (the consumer) testing the equipment for us and making sure it's ready for delivery. I don't think he WORKS for BMD, but it does sometimes come off that way which is no fault of BMD.

The fact is we get a camera like this for an unbelievable price... be happy with that!

Saying that, I really would like some green screen stuff with movement and a proper lighting setup john! E.g with no green spill if possible. I know you are busy but I would love play around with it in a NLE program.
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simonkn

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Re: honesty and communication please

PostSun Sep 30, 2012 1:56 pm

Welcome back Richard..... Going for a two week-er this time??
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Richard Wade

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Re: honesty and communication please

PostSun Sep 30, 2012 2:04 pm

Costa wrote:Richard be nice.. you have some valid points but deliver them in such a rude way that you aren't doing yourself any favors.


The guy's had the BMCC for a month now? He can write daily on this forum...but it eludes him to post
an updated green screen test?

Costa wrote:The fact is we get a camera like this for an unbelievable price... be happy with that!


Image

Costa wrote:Saying that, I really would like some green screen stuff with movement and a proper lighting setup john! E.g with no green spill if possible. I know you are busy but I would love play around with it in a NLE program.


(putting on kneepads)

+1

Pretty please John, green with movement: shaken, not stirred...thanks!
The only real BMCC green screen test to date: https://vimeo.com/49238555
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PetePolyakov

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Re: honesty and communication please

PostSun Sep 30, 2012 4:26 pm



- honestly speaking, i prefer RAW. i had working for color correction, photoshop and etc. last 16 years. for me video compression, it's like a JPG for any photographer.
- it's $2k difference.
- jvc gives just 1080p.

i have 5dmk2 since 2008 and everything that i could get from a compressed video i got already. i know where is limits with these formats.
i would love to have epic, scarlet, and use 4k raw video in my projects but i just don't have a budget for it now.. family, baby on the way, you know.. and bmc looks like that i can use, the camera that i can afford in my situation.

i had questions when they was avoiding the main question - what's going on.
but now, situation is much more transparent and i see it like.. nobody insured from things like that. manufacturing always is a mess. and when mr. Petty clarified the situation, i i don't feel annoyed anymore, because i understand the reasons why my camera is not here and why i can't start to shoot my first full length festival film.
and if i disagree i can cancel my order and i hope i will have a chance to get my money back. but i won't. my wife probably would be happy if i would give up spend these money on the baby, new apt that we move in, but i'm still a film director, i'm still that dreamer. who believe, that films is mine thing.
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Bill Rich

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Re: honesty and communication please

PostSun Sep 30, 2012 4:51 pm

Richard,

First of all. I'm quite sure that Canon did not send cameras to the good folks at MagicLantern, nor did Panasonic send GH1/2's to Vitaly.. These folks did this on their own with no cooperation from the actual manufacturers.. So why on earth would you expect BMD to send their intellectual property to a third party to intentionally hack?

If you think the camera needs to be improved.. Why don't you put your money were your mouth is.. Send your personal BMCC to Trammel at MagicLantern with a list of demands.. See how that works out for you.

On a serious note.. you're ruining this board for the rest of us that want to know about the camera and firmware updates and other topics related to the camera.. We are not interested in reading your incessant demands for tests and rants.. so kindly keep it civil or STFU! (speaking for myself)

The camera is what it is.. the specs are clearly posted on the website.. If you aren't happy with it.. Please buy a different camera and troll on their forum.. (may god rest their souls)

Love,
Bill
Bill Rich
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Soeren Mueller

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Re: honesty and communication please

PostSun Sep 30, 2012 7:17 pm

Bill Rich wrote:On a serious note.. you're ruining this board for the rest of us that want to know about the camera and firmware updates and other topics related to the camera.. We are not interested in reading your incessant demands for tests and rants.. so kindly keep it civil or STFU! (speaking for myself)


+1

Bill, you're clearly not only speaking for yourself... this (and also "the other") forum get sort of ruined by this... so tiresome :cry:
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CaptainHook

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Re: honesty and communication please

PostSun Sep 30, 2012 8:44 pm

Richard Wade wrote:I don't buy that.

It's quite common for a lot of software companies to be quite open over the development
of their apps...and routinely will upload 'nightly builds' of their works in progress.

videolan.org offers frequent beta builds of their apps. Sometimes once a day.

Your example is a free open-source app.

For other software companies that don't follow that model (the majority), it's only the exceptions that will post public "pre-releases" and even of those, most don't provide road-maps and/or full feature lists of future versions. Any company with experience learns it does more harm than good to setup expectations like that, or make themselves 'liable' (legally or not) when it turns out they can't deliver a feature they had full intention of doing (it WILL happen happen at some point for every company).

For publicly traded software companies, they simply can't share development plans for legal reasons.

Your thread requesting an SDK is a lot more reasonable than this tho.
**Any post by me prior to Aug 2014 was before i started working for Blackmagic**
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Richard Wade

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Re: honesty and communication please

PostSun Sep 30, 2012 8:57 pm

CaptainHook wrote:
Richard Wade wrote:I don't buy that.

It's quite common for a lot of software companies to be quite open over the development
of their apps...and routinely will upload 'nightly builds' of their works in progress.

videolan.org offers frequent beta builds of their apps. Sometimes once a day.

Your example is a free open-source app.

For other software companies that don't follow that model (the majority), it's only the exceptions that will post public "pre-releases" and even of those, most don't provide road-maps and/or full feature lists of future versions. Any company with experience learns it does more harm than good to setup expectations like that, or make themselves 'liable' (legally or not) when it turns out they can't deliver a feature they had full intention of doing (it WILL happen happen at some point for every company).

For publicly traded software companies, they simply can't share development plans for legal reasons.


BM is a private company. They could do whatever they want.

I started a new thread specific about BM/SDK'ing the BMCC

http://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1383

The BMCC is only but one product amongst many others that BM is selling. Since BM
offers SDK's for other hardware in their lineup, an SDK for the BMCC is doable.

The BMCC is basically a combination of several pieces of other hardware peripherals sold
by BM. There is nothing 'unique' about the BMCC which would warrant BM not offering an SDK.
The only real BMCC green screen test to date: https://vimeo.com/49238555
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Re: honesty and communication please

PostSun Sep 30, 2012 9:50 pm

There'll always be one person who thinks he deserves to have the keys to the vault.
Nick Bedford, Photographer
http://www.nickbedford.com/
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CaptainHook

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Re: honesty and communication please

PostMon Oct 01, 2012 12:05 am

Richard Wade wrote:BM is a private company. They could do whatever they want.

Exactly. Whatever THEY want.

If they wanted to copy what the minority of companies do, i would expect that's up to them rather than listening to another minority (seems in this case just you) demanding a roadmap. What if they just didn't want to let competitors know what they have planned for this camera? I wouldn't complain if they did let people know, but i don't believe i have the right to demand it.

And yeah, i commented in my last post that i think your thread request for an SDK is much more reasonable than this.
**Any post by me prior to Aug 2014 was before i started working for Blackmagic**
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Pat Horridge

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Re: honesty and communication please

PostTue Oct 02, 2012 5:17 pm

I've been a beta tester in the past for a high profile product and event hen I wasn't ever aware of a "Road Map" I sure they had such a thing but I'm also sure it was modified and adapted on a very regular basis as the market and competition changed.
Pblish that road map and you are locked into that path. Imagine the frustration for 3rd parties if they could see a road map and plan to it and then the maps re-drawn.

That's why collaberations are developed so 3rd parties can work very closly on a small section of that road map on the understanding that it won;t chaneg for that bit.
But that is never going to go further than that and I suspect BM may feel they aren't ready for even that now.
If I were them I'd be looking very closely at how the camera is recieved in the market place and how that road map can best be drawn for the next stage. When that becomes clearer they may open up a bit more to 3rd parties.
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